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    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:34 am

    Some helping hand translating what Slyusar says from minute 19 would be great  Very Happy



    In general there is a lot of food for thought in the comments by UAC/Sukhoi, some of them apply to the Su-57 too like the "transitional" nozzle

    A nice piece here, too:

    https://aviation21.ru/lyogkij-takticheskij-istrebitel-suxogo-su-75-checkmate/
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:59 am

    From ^that article

    the deflected thrust vector of the engine provide the fighter with a distance on takeoff and run after landing 400-500 meters.

    So did they maybe devise a way to do one of these slow rolling takeoffs similar to what the F-35 does ?

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 37 RDwtrP
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:58 pm

    I cannot fathom that it is still debated weather the plane is real or not right After being confirmed by the creators to be an actual prototype

    Pretty standard procedure... what happened to that chart... Armata, Su-57, Sputnik V, this new design, they were all vapour ware to start with that Russia could not afford to complete, eventually when the serial production models enter service they wont be able to afford many of them and the Chinese ones are better anyway...

    It is how they deal with someone they don't respect doing it better than they can... which I find amusing...

    I don't think it is a fair comparison

    Modifying a design for a new distinct and different role is not new... at the end of WWII lots of the first jet powered planes that actually made it into service were simply propeller driven planes with their old engines replaced with jet engines... it is the cheapest quickest easiest design option... of course not always ideal, but can be better in some other ways like speed or economic reasons.

    Tell me one operational case

    The fact that they didn't make it to operational status is irrelevant... this plane isn't in service either... but if you are going to get catty... Tu-123. Razz

    They can always trust in US to instruct their vassals not to buy the LTS, as it is to be expected from the "free world"

    Yeah, but will that last forever? I mean at some stage the EU is going to get sick of being told what to do by a country that does not give a shit about their interests and is happy to make them pay more for gas energy supplies so the US can make some money selling it to them.

    Oh boy, full denial red flag for you

    Don't be a dick, I am trying to explain SSs position that this design is not a design yet and that it could only be a design when it enters serial production with at least 3,500 orders for aircraft... and obviously failing because this is clearly a design, and a much better looking one than the F-35 design.

    Very restrictive and unlikely if you ask me, but possible.

    It would allowed X shaped nozzle manouvering if you draw a circle around the X and fill in the top v and the bottom ^ showing where the nozzle is free to rotate or move to. Not ideal but better than just I shaped angles.

    Roll control in stall states is your last concern in terms of controllability, and those elements you say dot not help in that regard either.

    No, they don't.... only a second engine with TVC helps in such situations.

    The sophists are already hedging their bets and calling it vaporeware even if it flies.

    The lesson is that their expertise does not extend past their own noses, making it pretty clear their expert opinion has no value.

    That is even more useful than anything new they could tell you about this new project.

    So did they maybe devise a way to do one of these slow rolling takeoffs similar to what the F-35 does ?

    That big thing behind the cockpit that looks like an airbrake is the air intake for the lift fan... which the Checkmate wont have if it is lucky.
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    Post  Kiko Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:03 pm

    Su-57 for the poor puts the aviation industry in a risky position, by Nikolay Gulyaev for VZGLYAD, 27.07.2021.

    In recent days, the Russian aviation industry has told the smallest details about the new light fighter. Why did the secrecy regime around ultra-modern military equipment turn out to be so soft, who will be its first buyer - and what do the representatives of the Russian Armed Forces think about the new machine?

    The project of the new Russian fighter jet LTS (light tactical aircraft) became the main military-technical sensation of the past week. Still - the Russian aviation industry has not shown fundamentally new combat vehicles for more than ten years, since the premiere of the 5th generation Su-57 heavy fighter. And we have not seen such a new aircraft - a single-engine light fighter - since Soviet times. It's a joke that the last Russian-made MiG-27 single-engine fighter-bomber appeared in the USSR back in the 1970s.

    Unsurprisingly, the public immediately swallowed the bait superbly made by the PR specialists of Rostec, the fighter's developer. As a reminder, Rostec has recently included the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), which, in turn, has united all the country's leading aviation design bureaus - from Sukhoi to Yakovlev. The teasing videos produced the desired effect - and the car with the mysterious name Checkmate became the highlight of the MAKS air show. A pavilion specially made for the presentation of the new fighter was visited by 30 thousand people. An animated video was sold in a huge circulation, in all its glory in two languages ​​describing the advantages of LTS.

    Indeed, the parameters declared by the manufacturer are quite decent. Fifth generation, stealth, range of 1.5 thousand km, combat load 7.4 tons, maximum speed up to 2M, radar with AFAR, new secure communication and control systems. The ability to carry a wide range of weapons, including the "air-to-surface" strike version. Let's make a reservation - these are the calculated characteristics, the real ones must be revealed by flight tests, which are still far away.

    Engine? Apparently, judging by the shape of the nozzle, a modernized version of the AL-41F1, which is installed on the Su-35/57, in a word, something tested and with a good resource. It is alleged that at MAKS it was not just a model, not plywood - no, this is a sample made in iron, which should rise into the air. Already in 2023.

    The car definitely uses the developments made in the process of creating the Su-57. This is reminded not only by the engine, not only by the canopy and the similar ergonomics of the cab. It seems that the amount of R&D and R&D done during the creation of the Su-57 has left such a colossal backlog that it would be a sin not to dispose of it for something else.

    Perhaps we have before us - a kind of designer, aircraft "Lego", a machine, in an original way assembled from the already tested blocks. A kind of "surrender", inherited by the KLA from the gigantic funds allocated by the state for the creation of the Su-57. Fundamentally different, for obvious reasons, only the airframe, the shape of the wing, the layout and, to which many paid attention, the air intake, which is unique for the Russian school of military aircraft construction.

    Moreover, as the developers themselves emphasize, the ability to customize the machine for any customer's requests, a variety of applications, any threats. The term "open architecture" is used, implying ease of modernization and modification of the aircraft. Perhaps the emergence of an unmanned and two-seater version, and even a deck. The presentation of the aircraft took place in the "any whim for your money" mode, and this money has already been calculated.

    25-30 million dollars - this, according to the head of Rostec Sergei Chemezov, will be the price of the new fighter in the end. The relative cheapness of both the machine itself and its operation and maintenance is emphasized (which is why Checkmate immediately received the nickname "Su-57 for the poor").

    “An important advantage of the new aircraft is the low cost of a flight hour ... Our forecast is about seven times less than that of an aircraft such as the F-35, and is comparable to the cost of a flight hour of the Gripen NG. At the same time, the combat capabilities of LTS Checkmate are significantly higher than the latter, ”says the head of the UAC, Yuri Slyusar. According to the UAC, based on the situation on the world market, one can expect to sell up to 300 LTS. We multiply the number of cars by its price - we get $ 8-9 billion. Even half, or even a third of this amount is worth seriously competing for.

    But who will give this money, where will it come from? Who will pay for the creation of the newest Russian fighter, which is currently being created "on an initiative basis" with the money of Rostec itself? “The idea was born from the economy. In our opinion, on the market now ... there is no fifth-generation single-engine aircraft at an acceptable, economically justified price, which would be within the power of most customers of military multifunctional aircraft, ”the head of the United Aircraft Corporation Yuri Slyusar explains the reason for the appearance of the machine. In other words, the customer will be abroad.

    A certain “anchor customer” for the car “already exists, and we are doing it for him,” confirms Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov.

    In the videos of Rostec, beating the name Checkmate, the pilots of the Indian, Vietnamese and Argentine air forces appear. And India looks like the most promising client for a variety of reasons. Not only because it is traditionally the largest customer of the Russian military aviation, but also because it has long been looking for a replacement for the Soviet single-engine MiG-21. Of course, the Indians are negotiating with all the leading manufacturers of military aircraft and are actively developing their own aircraft. However, both tradition and reputation may well influence their choice in favor of a Russian fighter.

    But whoever this mysterious "anchor customer" is, it is highly likely that they will not be. And this, unfortunately, is the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    Yes, the first guest of the Checkmate pavilion was Vladimir Putin, but neither Sergei Shoigu, nor the head of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov, nor even the commander-in-chief of the Aerospace Forces Sergei Surovikin were seen next to the LTS. Against the background of the grandiose hype arranged by Rostec around the new car, the silence of the Russian Ministry of Defense sounds especially deafening. There are only assurances from Yuri Slyusar that "LTS can ... find its place in the system of Russian videoconferencing of the future." In the VKS themselves, they do not say anything at all about their vision of the place of the LTS. The Russian military department behaves as if the LTS project does not exist in nature.

    Nobody argues that the Ministry of Defense has the right and even is obliged to independently decide which military equipment it needs and which is completely redundant. Even such a powerful corporation as Rostec can only offer, but in no case impose.

    However, in expert circles, and even within the Aerospace Forces themselves, the opinion has long been heard that the Su-27/30/35/57 is, of course, very good, but extremely expensive. That the MiG-29 is outdated, and the MiG-35 does not exist in production form. And those tasks for the solution of which the Ministry of Defense purchases heavy fighters can be fully solved with much more modest and cheaper means. For example, single-engine fighters with the ability to strike at ground targets. And that the reasons why many years ago the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase such machines - the unreliability and low power of the engines - are no longer relevant. Maybe if the Ministry of Defense had previously paid attention to the Su-75 (the alleged Russian designation Checkmate) - would there have been several regiments of these machines in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces, and not a single copy, as in the case of the Su-57?

    We are facing a unique situation. For decades, the domestic aviation industry performed tasks exclusively for one customer - its own Ministry of Defense.

    Yes, there were sometimes proactive developments, but they also always had in mind, first of all, internal needs. The tastes of their own generals for the Russian (Soviet) design bureaus were immeasurably more important than the tastes of foreign generals. Never before in Russia have they started from scratch the development of a new combat aircraft, mainly for the foreign market. This calculation is so straightforward that the developers built the entire advertising campaign on the foreign name of the new car.

    The very fact of this grandiose advertising campaign is a hidden admission of the developers that the Russian military leadership - and therefore the Russian military budget - is unlikely to support their bold undertaking with money. A striking contrast compared to the Su-57, the birth of which had a fundamentally lower level of publicity, and precisely because the state order was guaranteed. The lack of such a guarantee is the most important risk for such an impressive project as the Checkmate Su-75 wants to create.

    It is impossible (well, almost impossible) to sell a sample of weapons abroad, especially as complex as a supersonic fighter, without first selling it to our own Armed Forces. This is the order, the old tradition of the world arms market. There are exceptions to this order (for example, the sale of the Su-30MKI to India), but very rare.

    This is understandable. Who else will buy a product abroad, the effectiveness and necessity of which is not believed even at home? Which has not passed at least a trial operation in the domestic Air Force? Which foreigner is ready for his own - and considerable - money to spend many years and thorough work to identify and eliminate childhood diseases of the most complex military equipment? Who is ready to give such impressive advances to the Russian military-industrial complex and under what conditions?

    Let's hope that both Rostec and UAC know the answers to all these by no means rhetorical questions. Because if these answers are not found, then "three hundred single-engine fighters" will remain only in the memory of visitors to the luxurious pavilion at the MAKS-2021 air show.

    https://m.vz.ru/society/2021/7/27/1110927.html

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:32 pm

    Backman wrote:So did they maybe devise a way to do one of these slow rolling takeoffs similar to what the F-35 does ?

    No, it just means that the TVC helps to accelerate the rotation of the plane

    GarryB wrote:Modifying a design for a new distinct and different role is not new... at the end of WWII lots of the first jet powered planes that actually made it into service were simply propeller driven planes with their old engines replaced with jet engines... it is the cheapest quickest easiest design option... of course not always ideal, but can be better in some other ways like speed or economic reasons.

    It is not a modification of a design, it is outright a different airframe in every aspect, where they managed to use some components of the Su-57. It is not comparable with the Flanker modifications or anything else I know, not even the F-16XL is comparable, and that was already pretty much as radical as you can go and still keep the name of the plane.

    Yeah, but will that last forever?

    Clearly not, but they may not be aware yet of that...

    Don't be a dick, I am trying to explain SSs position that this design is not a design yet and that it could only be a design when it enters serial production with at least 3,500 orders for aircraft... and obviously failing because this is clearly a design, and a much better looking one than the F-35 design.

    Ahahaha sorry... these days you never know

    Su-57 for the poor puts the aviation industry in a risky position

    The defeatist choir and their endless bleating are at it again...


    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:55 pm

    It is a shit article. Let everyone thank Kiko for posting such hot garbage.

    Let the writer be reminded that the F-16 is sold in such abundance while being a poor man's F-15 or Such.

    Or, let someone remind the writer that there is a launch partner apparently as said by the host of the event.

    But whatever, Russias media is ran by fucking retards whom are all liberal faggots (those who should actually be hung for their abysmal writing) and those who parrot it.
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:23 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Gomig-21 wrote:
    That was the first thing I noticed too when I first saw that cut diagram by Backman.  Actually it wads the affirmation of the duct pushing up the way it does when we were talking about it needing to do exactly that in order to make room for the forward landing gear to tuck up in there when retracting.  Sure enough, that'd exactly what it shows and the other is how much space and room there is for tons of fuel, especially in that spinal run,

    I think I read somewhere that the F-35 used its fuel as a coolant for its electronics, giving it problems when operating in high ambient temperatures.

    Could the Su-75 be doing similar but with the airduct cooling the fuel? Also, does running cooler fuel into the engine have any effect on performance?

    It's possible. I think it's probably more a case of packing it with as much fuel for as much of a range as possible more so than cooling electronics TBH. But we never know until they release most info on that.

    BTW, has it been officially declared the Su-75? Or is that something many are just assuming because they don't like the name Checkmate? Seems they use the latter more so than Su-75.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:13 pm

    Kiko wrote:
    In the videos of Rostec, beating the name Checkmate, the pilots of the Indian, Vietnamese and Argentine air forces appear. And India looks like the most promising client for a variety of reasons. Not only because it is traditionally the largest customer of the Russian military aviation, but also because it has long been looking for a replacement for the Soviet single-engine MiG-21. Of course, the Indians are negotiating with all the leading manufacturers of military aircraft and are actively developing their own aircraft. However, both tradition and reputation may well influence their choice in favor of a Russian fighter.

    But whoever this mysterious "anchor customer" is, it is highly likely that they will not be. And this, unfortunately, is the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    Interestingly no mention in the list of pilots of the country or in the rest of the text, that many believe is the actual launch customer, UAE.
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I cannot fathom that it is still debated weather the plane is real or not right After being confirmed by the creators to be an actual prototype



    That big thing behind the cockpit that looks like an airbrake is the air intake for the lift fan... which the Checkmate wont have if it is lucky.
    Yeah. I am just wondering if they found a way to do a similar take off with the delta type wing plus the thrust vectoring. Maybe with an adjustable front strut + vectoring. Point it up like a Concorde then use the TVC. 

    They must have something up their sleeve if they are claiming it has shorter take offs than the average for a plane this size
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:38 pm

    Just imagine that Lockheed took one engine , the wings , cockpit , gear and tail section from the F-22 and made the F-35 out of it. That's probably what they should have done.

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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:24 pm

    Backman wrote:From ^that article

    the deflected thrust vector of the engine provide the fighter with a distance on takeoff and run after landing 400-500 meters.

    So did they maybe devise a way to do one of these slow rolling takeoffs similar to what the F-35 does ?

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 37 RDwtrP

    Probably with no payload and low gas.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:27 pm

    Backman wrote:Just imagine that Lockheed took one engine , the wings , cockpit , gear and tail section from the F-22 and made the F-35 out of it. That's probably what they should have done.


    Yes but for some reason they decided to risk their most important jet fighter program in HISTORY by combining a very small VERTOL requirement into the program. Its frankly absurd. 10-12K lifetime product production put at risk for maybe 3-600 VERTOL planes. Now the VERTOL and the standard planes both suck. Only real achievement is the sensor fusion avionics.

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:07 pm

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 37 1627412624-95a9bf6f26949ac6c72e80422aecdd49
    One more small detail: do you notice any interesting colors on the engine nozzle?

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    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:13 pm

    Backman wrote:Yeah. I am just wondering if they found a way to do a similar take off with the delta type wing plus the thrust vectoring. Maybe with an adjustable front strut + vectoring. Point it up like a Concorde then use the TVC. 

    They must have something up their sleeve if they are claiming it has shorter take offs than the average for a plane this size

    The guy from Sukhoi was explaining it at the video what is already known, the TVC allows the plane to pitch the nose sooner and faster, that increases lift and that takes the plane off the ground in less space.

    Scorpius wrote:One more small detail: do you notice any interesting colors on the engine nozzle?

    Do you mean that the engine has been already turned on?

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:24 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:One more small detail: do you notice any interesting colors on the engine nozzle?

    Do you mean that the engine has been already turned on?

    Perhaps this is a bench copy that has passed through autonomous tests. Or perhaps-the engine has already been tested as part of the aircraft.

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    Post  Atmosphere Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:55 pm

    I'm more interested in the holes drilled along.
    Aerosol injection ?
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    Post  marcellogo Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:02 pm

    Given that a lot of you are justly furious about some western sites trolling and shitposting I hereby publish the first rewiew exited in the online site of my country leading defense publication, just to make clear the difference between payed shills and real western defence journalist.

    It is in Italian , obviously , so only the site address.

    https://www.rid.it/shownews/4303

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    Post  Hole Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:09 pm

    Backman wrote:Just imagine that Lockheed took one engine , the wings , cockpit , gear and tail section from the F-22 and made the F-35 out of it. That's probably what they should have done.

    It was advertised as such back in the 90´s.

    For me it´s a good sign that Rostech and UAC paid for that prototype. This is the next step. No need for the defence ministry to pay for every development. Let the industry do it. If the armed forces find the product interesting they can sign a contract and pay for the finished product. And after all they are state-owned companies.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 pm

    Scorpius wrote:Perhaps this is a bench copy that has passed through autonomous tests. Or perhaps-the engine has already been tested as part of the aircraft.

    I am not sure, because those colours were also visible at the identical nozzles seen in the static Su-57E, it may be simply the materials having that property naturally or after going through some kind of thermal treatment, I don't know about nozzle metallurgy to be honest. I heard they are some highly thermal resistant alloy like inconel but that's pretty much all I know...

    Atmosphere wrote:I'm more interested in the holes drilled along.
    Aerosol injection

    Or simply nozzle sooling / shrouding of the engine's jet with cool air
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    Post  AirCombatSim Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 pm

    Is it me or are many of the planes all starting to look like each other to an extent? dunno
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:One more small detail: do you notice any interesting colors on the engine nozzle?

    Do you mean that the engine has been already turned on?

    Perhaps this is a bench copy that has passed through autonomous tests. Or perhaps-the engine has already been tested as part of the aircraft.

    There is video of the engine firing already. It was shown in the promo clip. It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:30 am

    kvs wrote:There is video of the engine firing already.   It was shown in the promo clip.   It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

    Where did Sukhoi or Rostec or UAC officially name this aircraft the designation Su-75?!?  I'm curious when and who gave it that designation when we all knew it to be The Checkmate?  anyone know?
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    Post  TMA1 Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:17 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    kvs wrote:There is video of the engine firing already.   It was shown in the promo clip.   It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

    Where did Sukhoi or Rostec or UAC officially name this aircraft the designation Su-75?!?  I'm curious when and who gave it that designation when we all knew it to be The Checkmate?  anyone know?

    They didn't. It's like people calling the izd 30 the al 51. Are we even sure it has the experimental wing name of t-75?

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:46 am

    TMA1 wrote:
    Gomig-21 wrote:
    kvs wrote:There is video of the engine firing already.   It was shown in the promo clip.   It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

    Where did Sukhoi or Rostec or UAC officially name this aircraft the designation Su-75?!?  I'm curious when and who gave it that designation when we all knew it to be The Checkmate?  anyone know?

    They didn't. It's like people calling the izd 30 the al 51. Are we even sure it has the experimental wing name of t-75?

    So it's more accurate to name it the Checkmate than it is the Su-75.   its doesn't seem that any source has given it a designation yet by any official sources.

    Yeah I just don't know where this Su-75 came from. It seems more of a guess than anything else simply because of the bort number 75 making fans automatically think it's the Su-75. But there has never been any official naming of if the officially the Su-75 as a matter of fact, there were many more references to its name being Checkmate than anything else resembling the Su-35.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Atmosphere Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:56 am

    Exactly. By all means the 75 may refer to T-75.
    If it were to me i'd name it Su-58.
    Because it's like a su-57 junior.

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