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    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

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    Lurk83

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    Post  Lurk83 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 07:20

    kvs wrote:The presentation is still 13 hours and 45 minutes away.    The midnight thing seems like Twitter account post or something.  
    There is no action on any of the official Youtube channels.

    Hmmn ok...
    I was going by the count down to presentation on the checkmate website.
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Tue 20 Jul 2021, 07:25

    flamming_python wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    The MIG-35 was somewhat hamstrung by the original concept to be a twin engine. Fact is, its not really possible to make it much cheaper then an SU-35. So you end up with much less capability and not much savings. These are realities placed upon MIG by the state. They do not define the spec, the RuAF does. They deliver the spec, and they have succeeded in this time and again. They are more victim of circummstance. When you ask ANYONE on the planet to name a Russian warplane, most people will say MIG, its a fantastic brand, with an extraordinary history. Russia would be daft to bin such a legendary brand. Its the Kalashnikov of jet fighters. As for Sukhois civilian planes, so far not great.

    Lavochkin was a legendary brand in its time
    Illyushin
    Antonov
    Hell Sikorsky was once upon a time

    So what happened
    Lavochkin lost out to MiG in the post WW2 era, and gradually filled the niche of rocketry and spacecraft
    Illyushin was forced out of the CAS and bomber niche, and drifted towards transport aircraft instead
    Antonov went over to the Ukraine and was ruined along with everything else in the country
    Sikorsky emigrated to America and it became an American brand instead

    You know it happens. And more than once we've seen aircraft bureaus forced out of one segment of aerospace only to find their place in another one.

    Like I said I hope MiG finds success with the MiG-41 platform, I really do.

    Yes all true, but I don't think we can rightly say that MIG has failed in any mission given to it thus far. But since there is a merger Sukhoi and MiG will be come MiGhoi. They will blend and anything that that is unique in their approach will be blended, similar to how McDonnel Douglas + Boeing = Shitty airliners and shitty jet fighters.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue 20 Jul 2021, 07:44

    PapaDragon wrote:
    MiG was tinkering with LMFS but they were mostly sitting on their asses and waiting for someone from abroad to start dropping cash on them (pretty much 90s Roskosmos modus operandi only in airplane market) which nobody did of course

    Sukhoi clearly made this one based on Su-57

    I'm curious. Given that the RuAF wants heavy fighters and doesn't want to buy significant numbers of MiG-29 derivatives, where exactly is MiG going to get the money to develop new products? Sukhoi had a product the military wanted (Su-27), and they had a secure revenue stream as a result. As a state-owned enterprise MiG won't have authority to borrow big and take a punt on new products in the hope of attracting foreign buyers, so they had to try and leverage their existing designs. Sukhoi won the PAK FA competition, probably as they had better recent experience with heavy fighter design) which only added to the squeeze.

    MiG were not incompetent, just unfortunate. Government funding dried up after 1991 and the RuAF had to be careful on where it spent its budget. What money was available was going Sukhois way, and MiG only received scraps. I think they did a good job simply to survive and stay solvent given the lack of opportunities.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 08:09

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    Yes, I just saw that!  What a clown.  He realized once he posted that tweet that ooops!  I better walk it back since it's only wishful thinking and I really don't know what the heck I'm talking about before Rostec gets Twitter to ban my ass!  The audacity is really something else and it all points to some kind of jealousy or hatful desire to knock it down.
    Physiognomy never fails:

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 20 A11

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Tue 20 Jul 2021, 08:29

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    I'm curious.  Given that the RuAF wants heavy fighters and doesn't want to buy significant numbers of MiG-29 derivatives, where exactly is MiG going to get the money to develop new products?  Sukhoi had a product the military wanted (Su-27), and they had a secure revenue stream as a result.  As a state-owned enterprise MiG won't have authority to borrow big and take a punt on new products in the hope of attracting foreign buyers, so they had to try and leverage their existing designs. Sukhoi won the PAK FA competition, probably as they had better recent experience with heavy fighter design) which only added to the squeeze.

    MiG were not incompetent, just unfortunate.  Government funding dried up after 1991 and the RuAF had to be careful on where it spent its budget.  What money was available was going Sukhois way, and MiG only received scraps.  I think they did a good job simply to survive and stay solvent given the lack of opportunities.

    What we call MiG, Sukhoi, Yakovlies are not firms in the western sense of term but Design Bureaus, tasked with producing and testing prototypes, large scale production are made through other entities called Aircraft Production Associations.
    Although they where, until now, legally linked to an ombrella corporation those entities were in fact separate things ,so that as an example Irkutsk aircraft plant produce both their main partner Yak planes than Su-30.
    Merging all this firms into UAC would equalize things even further, so even if Su model would win the LF tender, production would take place in the same aviation plant that actually produce MiG-29 and-35.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue 20 Jul 2021, 09:38

    In less than 5 hours and 25 minutes we will know! Laughing

    How about a roll out and a flypast at the same time - that would be something! Twisted Evil
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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Tue 20 Jul 2021, 09:40

    In a case you missed that, this :

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Rostec - Rostec official YT channel.
    https://aviasalon.com/en/ - MAKS official site

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:14

    He realized once he posted that tweet that ooops!  I better walk it back since it's only wishful thinking and I really don't know what the heck I'm talking about before Rostec gets Twitter to ban my ass!
    Standard Western propaganda media methodology these days:

    1. Put out the big lie written in authoritative language as if its completely evidence supported truth.
    2. Nearly immediately admit that its unsubstantiated bullshit.
    3. Be quoted/interviewed everywhere as an authoritative source.
    4. On the off chance you actually get caught out point to 2 & act insulted that anyone took you seriously.


    Rostec is far more likely to get banned by Twitter for misusing an RAF arm badge or whatever excuse they think they can get away with.

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Tue 20 Jul 2021, 10:45

    I for one hope it isn’t plywood, speculation is basically pointless after all.

    Also the irony of MiG not having as much work as Sukhoi to due to the reliance on Su-27s and it’s derivatives has dawned on me as it was MiG’s idea to split the 1969 PFI programme into two, a lightweight and a heavyweight. Hoist by their own petard maybe but they weren’t to know back then.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 13:47

    Photos of MiG aircraft models transferred here

    MAKS-2021 Air Show: Photos and News

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:09


    Don't do this to you. You know there are not going to be more models for this size class, it would be absurd.

    Of course, every weapons programme has only one competitor and is always offered to export first before the Russians get to decide if they want it too.

    The model you see is a very sophisticated design which has necessarily been under study for several years.

    Well Duh... the position of next gen lighter fighter has been obvious for the last 40 years... the JSF program started in the 1980s too... do you think MiG and Sukhoi were waiting for permission to look at lighter designs?

    When it has reached this level of development in which it can be presented and offered, it means the main financial and technical risks are covered and they don't rely on foreign nations whims and political stability to develop further.

    Yes, but MiG has also been working for decades on their 5th gen light fighter replacement for the MiG-35 and it will likely also be a fairly low technical and financial risk too, but you ignorance is amusing... out of sight out of mind I guess.

    There are a lot of twin engined aircraft out there that would benefit from a new 5th gen engine designed to be a twin.

    My mind is quite open, but when a project is presented officially this way and they make damn sure the whole world is aware, it means the other options have already been considered. But you can keep your hope further, how many more years?

    As I stated, they have a history of competition and traditionally when one competitor is kicked out of the running it is made available publicly on the international arms market to see if there is enough foreign interest in it to get it into production.

    Being revealed first suggests they are looking at something else... perhaps a twin engined MiG and a single engined Yak with VSTOL capabilities like the MiG-29K vs Yak-141 competition from the late 1980s early 1990s...

    I am fairly sure they will put an ejection seat on that thing...

    Send that memo to Sukhoi... will crash if manouvered too hard, but has an ejection seat so the pilot will probably survive... wow... that is everything a customer wants in a light fighter... a working ejection seat and a good reason to use it a lot.

    The important thing is that the technology is there. Engines are very reliable today.

    Really? Based on how many years of experience with these brand new engines?

    ...well it kept running fine in the lab... but the real world is different from a lab.

    They radiation pattern of those arrays is not a beam but (close to) a vertical plane, so no big difference by tilting them up and down.

    Well that does not make sense.

    An AESA radar element will transmit a beam, not a column of energy... being able to turn them vertically should allow sweeps vertically.

    If this forces the US to offer F-35's for everyone in the Gulf countries then Russia can offer it to Iran

    How many gulf countries would take them up on that offer?

    Well, then I am sure that the Indian government will not mind if we sell a couple of squadrons each to Pakistan and China.

    Something like 70% of Indians weapons inventory is Soviet or Russian, but if you think a few paid idiots that bitch about Russian weapons and talk up the crap they operate from other countries are speaking for India, the two you sell to China and the dozen or so that Pakistan could afford wont do much good when such sales will essentially push India to look more to the US and France for their future purchases... those anti Russian Indian trolls will win and Russia will lose.

    I know this name is well used but I think Russia should name it Akula

    Hebo Akula... Sky Shark.

    Why should MiG's incompetence be rewarded by allowing them to put their failed name on someone else's product?

    You keep talking about it but it wont make it real.

    One of Western mass media says that US intelligence calls new fighter "Screamer"...

    US intel does not name aircraft, and even if they did the rules require a two sylabyl name starting with F that does not sound like any other word used on the radio... ie they can't use foxtrot or fox fire, etc etc.


    Eh? I'm afraid this sounds wrong, since when was the F-35 ever intended to be an F-22 replacement as opposed to being part of a high/low mix of F-22/F-35.

    Since F-22 production was cut from 1,500 aircraft to 750 and then to the 189 that they had already built. The F-35 was supposed to replace most in service medium and light fighters, so using it in the heavy role was not considered a problem till they realised it could not fill any role let alone every role so they created a new programme to replace the F-22 called NGAD or some such nonsense.

    Does the VKS need two 'lightweight fighters' considering how the MiG-29 as a lightweight has basically been seen off by the heavyweight Su-30SM.

    At the moment the only ones it does have are MiG-29SMT and other older models and the new MiG-35 just entering service.

    The fact that they bought the MiG-35 instead of the cheaper but lower performing MiG-29M2 suggests they want low operational costs but also the best performance.

    I guess it all depends on how many lightweight fighters the air force thinks need and whether they'll go down the route of having a mix of 5th gen and 4th gen as they have for heavyweights in the Su-57 and Su-30/35 mix or just settling on lower numbers of just T-75s and no MiG-35s. It will be interesting, until now I hadn't really considered the role of a new lightweight fighter!

    Smaller shorter ranged fighters give you better coverage and save money.

    The MiG-29 has about half the range and half the weapon capacity of the Su-27 but they both fly at about the same speed.

    If they go supersonic their flight range halves.

    As a general rule of thumb the MiG-29 carries two BVR missiles and four WVR missiles, but with the MiG-35 that is four BVR and four WVR missiles, which is not half of what the Su-35 carries because it normally carries 6 heavy BVR missiles and four WVR missiles, so the real practical difference is two BVR missiles.

    The smaller lighter aircraft is cheaper to operate, which adds up over time, but because its range is half it will always be near the targets it is defending because by definition it does not have the legs to go off on some wild goose chase.

    Smaller lighter fighters offer better coverage, because they tend to be used in larger numbers, and in European Russia where there are plenty of airfields and air bases to locate fighter aircraft, the lighter cheaper plane actually makes more sense and provides better coverage.

    BTW did we ever get an explanation of why there was an Argentine pilot wearing a f*cking 617 Sqn Dambusters patch? Was it a strange and convoluted reference to the Falklands War (which the RAF's lightnings would hopefully smoke the Argie's T-75s in a sequel) or just laziness/randomness.

    Royal Navy thinks Crimean waters are Ukrainian waters... Sukhoi thinks dambusters squadron is based in Argentina perhaps?

    Mig will now have to really pull up their socks, but having competition usually spurs the best from somebody. I'm pretty sure we'll see the Mig-41 and a new light fighter from Mig in the very near future.

    Generally if one is revealed and the other is kept secret then very little will be allowed to be revealed about the secret plane they are going ahead with as showing it would sabotage export potential for the loser.

    The Ka-50 was kept secret for a couple of years for that reason, but by about 1992 after examining what happened in Desert Storm and the usefulness of night and all weather capability and how that requires a dedicated pilot the reevaluation of their decision for the single seat Ka-50 means they likely revealed it rather early too... up until it was shown it was assumed to be a two seat side by side conventional attack helo, which it was not.

    So this whole thing over MiG winning or not winning doesn't really matter, it's factory at Lukhovitsky and design bureau are all part together with Sukhoi's, Tupolev, etc. It doesn't really matter anymore.

    Of course it does, this is LTS, the MiG LMFS design might already have been accepted and work is as far forward as this aircraft if not more so... they have had plenty of time to do all this and more.

    The existence of the Sukhoi LTS does not exclude the potential for a MiG LMFS as well.


    They went quite aggressive with the TIT in the F135,

    Are you talking about a Transfer of Technology (ToT)... or are we talking about something quite different...

    So good that nobody wants to have anything to do with it (and so timely...)

    The real irony is that the wiki list for potentially interested parties includes Argentina, Egypt, Bangledesh, even Algeria is buying MiG-29Ms...

    I look forward to your posts when Serbias new MiGs are delivered...

    Which Sukhoi bomber are you talking about here? The T-4? that was wayyy before or the T-60S which was inferior to the TU-22M

    The original T-4 mach 3 bomber was selected, and thank goodness Tupolev objected because it would have been horrendously expensive to operate and not any safer than much slower aircraft but much shorter ranged.

    Tupolev suggested the Tu-160 design and the Tu-22M designs instead of trying for mach 3 plus.

    MiG put their resources in the wrong place, and their mainstay MiG-29 platform never worked up as many export sales as Sukhoi's Su-27 range did.

    Sukhoi used their export muscle to make their exported aircraft the same price to buy as the smaller shorter ranged MiG-29 versions so of course those countries would select the bigger aircraft. Of course for some countries like Bangledesh, the Flanker is just too big and expensive, and for several other countries a mix of aircraft probably would have suited them better.

    They lost to Sukhoi regarding the PAK-FA project; the MiG 1.42/1.44 was an interesting design but what it wasn't was a 5th gen fighter or something that could be evolved into one

    Very true, but you could say the same about the S.37 that Sukhoi put forward... the Su-57 looks nothing like it.

    They showed off the MiG Skat back 10 years ago. It was interesting for the time, yet somehow the concept eventually evolved into a Sukhoi project as well - the S-70 Okhotnik

    But the Skat was revealed early, and the S-70 was kept secret... don't you see the pattern?

    The failure is revealed to get export interest and financial support while the platform they actually select continues work in secret till it can be kept secret no longer.

    The MiG-35 failed to generate much interest inside or outside Russia, and it was yet another product with a protracted development time.

    The MIG was only committed to rather recently... claiming lack of MiG-35s in service is proof of lack of interest is amusing... if this new plane LTS is the future then why even consider the MiG-35 at all? There is no need for a MiG-35 aerobatics team if they are not going to buy any for service... it would be like them having a MiG-AT aerobatics team...

    Maybe the fact that the AESA radar couldn't be developed in a reasonable time played a factor, and one that was outside of MiG's control.

    It will be ready when it is ready... right now it is probably 100 times more expensive than the current radar fitted but not offering much better performance... the MiG operates within a large IADS where the MiGs radar wont even be turned on for half the time anyway.

    [quoet]So far they haven't got anything new to their name.[/quote]

    Talk of MiG-41 but then that will rely on new engines...

    Other than of course the MiG-31BM, MiG-31K upgrades and the MiG-29K carrier wing aircraft. The later was particularly impressive in terms of its specs and the way that it adapted the MiG-29 platform to a carrier setting.

    In many ways many of the capabilities of the MiG-29KR were comparable with the capabilities of the naval F-35s in terms of data collection and processing and distribution.

    Mig-35 isn't a new fighter. It's just a renamed mig-29M/K. Taking so much time to "develop" a variant of an existing fighter is a joke.

    The fact that you can say it is just a renamed aircraft is amusing...

    Just look how fast they develop this aircraft with existing technology. Mig-35 should have been ready since 2007. Only the radar is different from mig-29M.

    Only the radar?

    Your ignorance is hilarious... you do understand the MiG-29M is a different aircraft too.

    The MiG-29M, KR, and 35 are a family of aircraft based on the same brand new airframe, the KR has folding main wing of larger size and a tail hook and internal bits optimised for carrier use, but that wing and tail hook can be fitted to the other two aircraft if you desire.

    The Avionics fitted to the aircraft is dramatically different and fully comparable in terms of technology to the Su-35 in terms of performance and capabilities, though obviously being a smaller aircraft they have to be smaller and lighter.

    "Just in case anyone needs clarification: the Checkmate/LTS shown here is a life-size model out of plywood, not a real plane," he said in a tweet via his Twitter account. It is clearly a speculative design in the hope of attracting foreign investment to start developing it.”

    It probably is a mockup... they are not likely to have thousands of full sized serial aircraft to show off.

    The thing they rolled around the airfield under the tarp however is obviously not a plywood mockup... and is something rather more substantial than the vapourware this guy is suggesting it is.

    Once the "issue" of money is raised, you know the claimant is full of shit. This is not 15 years ago and Sukhoi is not living from hand to
    mouth. I recall all the BS about how India supposedly funded the Su-57.

    I think he is being quite reasonable... Sukhoi have not said they have hard contracts with the Russian Air Force to mass produce this plane, so they are showing a mockup for the inside display and they have a rolling potentially taxiing prototype they can take the tarp off of to show the crowd... whether it actually is ready to fly is another matter.

    The point is that it is a huge bunch of steps from having mockups and prototypes to having full testing including flight testing and weapons and systems integration done, and then tooling for serial production for customers.

    Sukhoi is looking for customers... that is normal... without customers signing and joining the programme this plane might be like all the other suggested 5th gen light fighters that didn't get anywhere... but the taxiing prototype suggests it is rather further than most which are paper designs or plywood mockups at airshows.

    The Mi-28A helicopter was a flying aircraft in the late 1980s but it is only in the last 10 years or so that it is getting fully operational with full capabilities and performances to make it look like a viable aircraft to purchase over an Apache or something similar.

    The MIG-35 was somewhat hamstrung by the original concept to be a twin engine. Fact is, its not really possible to make it much cheaper then an SU-35.

    But it is and that is why the Russian Air Force is buying it...

    So you end up with much less capability and not much savings.

    Looking at the Saab Gripen performance in the Finnish competition for new fighter, it sounds like they got the design wrong... it was too light, so they had to fix it with a further upgrade to the Gripen NG to get it up to approaching the performance of the twin engined fighters it was in the competition against.

    MiG have done everything right, they have a carrier version, and they have a cheaper simpler more affordable multirole fighter bomber in the form of the MiG-29M2, and a more expensive but also more capable multirole MiG-35.

    India were stupid to drop the MiG-35, they should have gone with a mix of MiG-29Ms and MiG-35s... for 10 billion they probably could have had 50 MiG-35s and probably 250 MiG-29Ms... and they could have started up a joint venture to produce AESA elements for the 35 and eventually both aircraft.

    After 5 years of operational experience they will have had plenty of time to work out what on the MiG-35 was worth the higher expense and what was not and then upgraded their MiG-29Ms with those parts that perform well and are worth the extra cost... but in 5 years time they are probably not that expensive any more... you upgrade the 250 MiG-29Ms to MiG-35 standard, and look at things you want improved on the MiG-35... which could be part of a new LMFS programme India can join with MiG to create upgrades from a 5th gen programme to upgrade their 4th gen fighters.

    The MiG-29M could replace the MiG-21s and MiG-23s and Jaguars and the existing 80 odd MiG-29UPGs that they currently have.

    The RuAF as far as I can tell does not really want MIG-35s, they want heavy fighters

    If they want heavy fighters then why order any MiG-35s.... and why is everyone so excited about this LTS design?

    It has to be a static prototype at the very least.

    There is no value in making static displays with real engines and components because it makes them heavier to cart around and it means you have to enforce some level of security to stop people trying to take core samples.

    MiG was tinkering with LMFS but they were mostly sitting on their asses and waiting for someone from abroad to start dropping cash on them (pretty much 90s Roskosmos modus operandi only in airplane market) which nobody did of course

    LMFS is a Russian Air Force project for a light 5th gen fighter... a project most agree was put on HOLD while the PAK FA programme was developing the Su-57 so there were no distractions or diversions of energy/focus.

    The MiG LMFS is likely every bit as advanced as this LTS prototype.

    Yes all true, but I don't think we can rightly say that MIG has failed in any mission given to it thus far. But since there is a merger Sukhoi and MiG will be come MiGhoi.

    MiG has not failed. There is no value in merging them because the value is in diversity rather than full standardisation. Having them as separate departments means they can work independently or together on projects where it is suitable.

    Each design bureaus have areas of expertise and experience and it would be wasteful to merge them all together because you would obviously lose engineers instead of losing managers and pen pushers like you did when they became part of OAK.

    They will blend and anything that that is unique in their approach will be blended, similar to how McDonnel Douglas + Boeing = Shitty airliners and shitty jet fighters.

    Merge them and there is no longer any competition... no pressure to do better... take this because there is no alternative...

    I'm curious. Given that the RuAF wants heavy fighters and doesn't want to buy significant numbers of MiG-29 derivatives, where exactly is MiG going to get the money to develop new products?

    MiG is a department of OAK/UAC... they are never going to fold, but obviously need to pull their weight. MiG has diversified along with most other MIC companies in Russia, the range of products they could produce would be significant.

    New programmes and contracts are funded, so without a Russian military order Sukhoi needs foreign investment and customers to make this prototype into a real fighter. The Russian military will be reopening the LMFS programme and Sukhoi and MiG will likely put forward their entries in the hope of getting the contract and therefore funding.

    Sukhoi won the PAK FA competition, probably as they had better recent experience with heavy fighter design) which only added to the squeeze.

    But experience with heavy fighter design does not translate into competence in light fighter design... the MiG-21 was a cheap simple light fighter... the MiG-23 was pretty good too, though a bit more complex...

    MiG were not incompetent, just unfortunate.

    They were actually more innovative and responsive than Sukhoi... the SMT upgrade of the MiG-29 reduced operating costs by 40% and made them fully multirole... the MiG-29KR can have a single seat or twin seats... they are fully removable and you can change from one to the other, so for the Kuznetsov it no longer needs the Su-25 based trainer aircraft for carrier landings.

    The problem with the SMT model was that the Russian Frontal Aviation didn't want multirole fighters because the smart weapons they use are expensive and they would rather just buy dumb bombs and rockets.

    Now they are turned it around and instead of looking at the affordable and cheap MiG-29M they are looking at the MiG-35... which is good because it finally invests money in high tech stuff that will be useful.

    AESA radars only get cheaper when you put them into production and start making them in large numbers.

    They get cheaper through production advances rather than technology ones.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:24

    GarryB wrote:Of course, every weapons programme has only one competitor and is always offered to export first before the Russians get to decide if they want it too.

    These things are expensive to design them redundantly. Where are you seeing the MiG candidate to PAK-FA being offered to export countries?

    wow... that is everything a customer wants in a light fighter... a working ejection seat and a good reason to use it a lot.

    lol1

    An AESA radar element will transmit a beam, not a column of energy... being able to turn them vertically should allow sweeps vertically.

    No, look for radiation pattern of a single element antenna or a single dipole. That is not directional, the beam is formed by the phase difference between the different elements of the array.

    Are you talking about a Transfer of Technology (ToT)... or are we talking about something quite different...

    No, Turbine Inlet Temperature... the F135 runs incredibly hot, that is not easy and not good for the life of the engine. It is very sophisticated, but it is risky. I think it is much better to work a bit more in the airframe, so you don't need an alien engine for your fighter to look reasonably agile.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:24

    GarryB wrote:If they want heavy fighters then why order any MiG-35s.... and why is everyone so excited about this LTS design?...

    MiG-29 35 is not light fighter, it's heavy fighter wannabe

    They are not seriously ordering MiG-35, they are just buying mandatory token amounts to keep MiG alive, government orders and company lobbying

    And we are excited for LTS because this IS the new light fighter, actual existing project instead of yet another scale model tossed away on some table in the back of the hall







    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:38

    The new Sukhoi military fighter presented for the first time today at MAKS can be not only single-seat, but also double or unmanned, it follows from the presentation for Vladimir Putin.
    The maximum combat load of these light tactical single-engine aircraft, called Checkmate, will be 7.4 thousand kg, the speed is up to 2 speeds of sound.
    The first deliveries to customers are planned to begin in 5 years.

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    Post  marcellogo Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:45

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The new Sukhoi military fighter presented for the first time today at MAKS can be not only single-seat, but also double or unmanned, it follows from the presentation for Vladimir Putin.
    The maximum combat load of these light tactical single-engine aircraft, called Checkmate, will be 7.4 thousand kg, the speed is up to 2 speeds of sound.
    The first deliveries to customers are planned to begin in 5 years.

    About the same payload than Su-57?? affraid
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    Post  LMFS Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:50

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The new Sukhoi military fighter presented for the first time today at MAKS can be not only single-seat, but also double or unmanned, it follows from the presentation for Vladimir Putin.
    The maximum combat load of these light tactical single-engine aircraft, called Checkmate, will be 7.4 thousand kg, the speed is up to 2 speeds of sound.
    The first deliveries to customers are planned to begin in 5 years.

    I can only give 1 like, sorry Very Happy

    Where is this coming from?

    About the payload: logical for the size of the plane, a bit less than F-35, less than Rafale too. More important is, how much fuel it carries? It is useless to have huge payload capability and then needing three bags for any normal strike mission...

    5 years is customary BS schedule, but it implies they are advanced with the design already, at the level of being building flying prototypes or shortly before I would say.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue 20 Jul 2021, 14:50

    What's the max combat load?

    If it's just ordinance then that's a lot for a single-engine fighter

    Or does it include fuel as well?

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    Post  mack8 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:01

    Here is a new picture!
    https://cdn1.img.rs.sputniknews.com/img/07e5/07/14/1127569794_0:0:3118:2047_1440x900_80_0_1_525ca5eade2e2076ce545162faf0a531.jpg.webp?source-sid=rian_photo

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    Post  LMFS Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:02

    flamming_python wrote:What's the max combat load?

    If it's just ordinance then that's a lot for a single-engine fighter

    Or does it include fuel as well?

    Not so much, F-35 carries more than 8 t, Rafale 9 and it has an empty weight of 10 t, F-16 carries more than 7 tons

    So, the 18 t weight we were given is not MTOW but NTOW, or full fuel load most likely. MTOW probably 23-24 t
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:04

    Cockpit
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 20 Screen11
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 20 Screen10

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:05

    Where is this coming from?
    From Russian military groups in Telegram and VKontakte

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:06

    marcellogo wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    I'm curious.  Given that the RuAF wants heavy fighters and doesn't want to buy significant numbers of MiG-29 derivatives, where exactly is MiG going to get the money to develop new products?  Sukhoi had a product the military wanted (Su-27), and they had a secure revenue stream as a result.  As a state-owned enterprise MiG won't have authority to borrow big and take a punt on new products in the hope of attracting foreign buyers, so they had to try and leverage their existing designs. Sukhoi won the PAK FA competition, probably as they had better recent experience with heavy fighter design) which only added to the squeeze.

    MiG were not incompetent, just unfortunate.  Government funding dried up after 1991 and the RuAF had to be careful on where it spent its budget.  What money was available was going Sukhois way, and MiG only received scraps.  I think they did a good job simply to survive and stay solvent given the lack of opportunities.

    What we call MiG, Sukhoi, Yakovlies are not firms in the western sense of term but Design Bureaus, tasked with producing and testing prototypes, large scale production are made through other entities called Aircraft Production Associations.
    Although they where, until now, legally linked to an ombrella corporation those entities were in fact separate things ,so that as an example Irkutsk aircraft plant produce both their main partner Yak planes than Su-30.
    Merging all this firms into UAC would equalize things even further, so even if Su model would win the LF tender, production would take place in the same aviation plant that actually produce MiG-29 and-35.  

    Yep, MiG was a design bureau, so why condemn them because the Russian government didn't buy significant quantities of their products for 3 DECADES? No significant sales, no real "investments", no government orders, just trying to sell enhancements on Cold War legacy designs to foreign buyers. Not exactly a gold-mine. Not a set of prospects that inspires unbridled optimism in the future. Where will the capital come from to fuel new designs? What is a management team of a out-of-work state-owned armements producer to do?

    MiG is an iconic Russian internationally-recognised brand-name that is right up there with Kalashnikov. It pisses me off to read so many clowns shitting on them due to circumstances beyond their control...

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    Post  mack8 Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:08

    Video

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:09

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Cockpit

    Well... it certainly ain't plywood... Laughing

    But that won't stop the shit deluge from empty-headed "experts"...

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    Post  LMFS Tue 20 Jul 2021, 15:09

    That nose cone... where they so wicked to show us this already at the PAK-FA???

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 20 1127569794_0:0:3118:2047_1440x900_80_0_1_525ca5eade2e2076ce545162faf0a531.jpg
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 20 00511

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