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    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:12 am

    @ Backman, this guy from Aviation Week Magazine says the following which is a bit disappointing but I'm trying to locate the source to read the full thing and see how he got this information and how credible it is, certainly the part about it being a plywd mockup but for sure the part about using a plywood mockup to attract foreign investment to partner and fund the project.  Anyone hear other sources claim the same thing or do we think this is more likely a bunch of mumbo jumbo jive dung?  

    Steve Trimble, a military aviation, missile and aerospace expert at Aviation Week Network, said the plane on display is a mock-up and the Russians in particular, via their Rostec/Sukhoi companies, are looking for a partner to fund the project.

    "Just in case anyone needs clarification: the Checkmate/LTS shown here is a life-size model out of plywood, not a real plane," he said in a tweet via his Twitter account. It is clearly a speculative design in the hope of attracting foreign investment to start developing it.”
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:16 am

    Mir wrote:Well they are going to give it a name whether you like it or not.

    NATO will probably call it something like Flatfish for sure!

    I know this name is well used but I think Russia should name it Akula Smile
    If I'm not mistaken, didn't Nato give Russian aircraft a name even if they were just prototypes ? But that was cold war days. They waited till the su 57 was in production this time.

    They will probably name it early if they have a good condecending name to give it. That's just the mood they are in these days.

     I didn't mind Felon but Frostbite would have been better.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:18 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:@ Backman, this guy from Aviation Week Magazine says the following which is a bit disappointing but I'm trying to locate the source to read the full thing and see how he got this information and how credible it is, certainly the part about it being a plywd mockup but for sure the part about using a plywood mockup to attract foreign investment to partner and fund the project.  Anyone hear other sources claim the same thing or do we think this is more likely a bunch of mumbo jumbo jive dung?  

    Steve Trimble, a military aviation, missile and aerospace expert at Aviation Week Network, said the plane on display is a mock-up and the Russians in particular, via their Rostec/Sukhoi companies, are looking for a partner to fund the project.

    "Just in case anyone needs clarification: the Checkmate/LTS shown here is a life-size model out of plywood, not a real plane," he said in a tweet via his Twitter account. It is clearly a speculative design in the hope of attracting foreign investment to start developing it.”

    Who is this guy ? What does he know about a secret program like this one ?

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:24 am

    ^:Steve is part of The Drive clique. Same old BS with all of them. They probably lurk on this forum.

    "to start developing it" Hardly. We know that the engine for this thing was being tested 2 years ago.

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:42 am

    Isos wrote:Who is this guy ? What does he know about a secret program like this one ?

    I hope for his sake that he really does have an inside with Rostec and can boldly speak for them like that, otherwise he's gonna get shellacked for false information. The source that was attached was incorrect so I didn't post it until I got the right one. In the meantime, wondering if anyone else heard the same thing or if there is any validity to all that.
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:50 am

    Here it is: https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1416762208411963397

    Take whatever you think out of this, but I question his source through Rostec as well as it being a plywd mockup.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:51 am

    Once the "issue" of money is raised, you know the claimant is full of shit. This is not 15 years ago and Sukhoi is not living from hand to
    mouth. I recall all the BS about how India supposedly funded the Su-57.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:55 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:Here it is:  https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1416762208411963397

    Take whatever you think out of this, but I question his source through Rostec as well as it being a plywd mockup.

    Plywood mockup. LOL.

    How retarded are these losers. I thought I couldn't be surprised with the level of retardation. If it was a plywood mockup
    it would not be rolled around on the tarmac. It would arrive in the back of a transport truck and be assembled as a static
    stand. Nobody would engineer a plywood mockup to have the structural integrity. And this "mockup" clearly has metallic
    parts with a non-token level of detail.

    Bloody inadequates broadcasting their cognitive dissonance copes.

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:05 am

    kvs wrote:Plywood mockup.  LOL.  

    How retarded are these losers.   I thought I couldn't be surprised with the level of retardation.   If it was a plywood mockup
    it would not be rolled around on the tarmac.   It would arrive in the back of a transport truck and be assembled as a static
    stand.   Nobody would engineer a plywood mockup to have the structural integrity.    And this "mockup" clearly has metallic
    parts with a non-token level of detail.  

    Bloody inadequates broadcasting their cognitive dissonance copes.

    lol, you tell 'em, ma man!  lol1 I'm with you 100%!  I've been clamoring about this whole mockup idea since the beginning of this thread and how some have thrown it out there.  I just don't see it and especially with wheeling it like that which I also mentioned before.  It's good to put them out there and expose them.

    And of course the part about Rostec looking for partners to fund it is really crazy.  To make such a bold statement you have to have some really reliable, inside sources and I'm not sure this guy has anything close to that.  That being said, if he's out promoting false information like this, you would hope there are some consequences he would face, for sure.

    Unfortunately there will be this kinda shhttuufff out there until Rostec comes out at the unveiling and sets the record straight.  Until then, unfortunately, we'll have to put up with this jive.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:29 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:Here it is:  https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1416762208411963397

    Take whatever you think out of this, but I question his source through Rostec as well as it being a plywd mockup.

    He doesn't have a source

    Despite his authoritative tone in his original post, turns out that he's just "speculating"



    Well either way we'll find out soon, won't we now

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:34 am

    flamming_python wrote:MiG put their resources in the wrong place, and their mainstay MiG-29 platform never worked up as many export sales as Sukhoi's Su-27 range did.

    They lost to Sukhoi regarding the PAK-FA project; the MiG 1.42/1.44 was an interesting design but what it wasn't was a 5th gen fighter or something that could be evolved into one

    Then for a long time their baby was the LMFS. They agreed to do a joint-project with the UAE, I think Brazil showed interest as well. Well lo and behold it somehow became the Sukhoi LTS, after years of no-show from MiG. Albeit the LTS at least has clearly a lot of input from the MiG bureau (not sure if they will get any profits from it though).

    They showed off the MiG Skat back 10 years ago. It was interesting for the time, yet somehow the concept eventually evolved into a Sukhoi project as well - the S-70 Okhotnik

    Of course we don't know all the details, whether MiG was shut-off in favour of Sukhoi leadership by choice of Rostech or UAC.. that they're both part of anyway.

    The MiG-35 failed to generate much interest inside or outside Russia, and it was yet another product with a protracted development time. I think they went the wrong direction with that one. Should have been a lot cheaper than the Su-35, just offering new-gen radar and avionics in lieu than the rest of the bells and whistles. Maybe the fact that the AESA radar couldn't be developed in a reasonable time played a factor, and one that was outside of MiG's control.

    So far they haven't got anything new to their name.

    Other than of course the MiG-31BM, MiG-31K upgrades and the MiG-29K carrier wing aircraft. The later was particularly impressive in terms of its specs and the way that it adapted the MiG-29 platform to a carrier setting.

    The Sukhoi bureau meanwhile did not only win all the contracts, but even managed to branch out into civilian aviation during the same time period

    Well here's to hoping that MiG at least get to bring the MiG-41 to fruition.

    The MIG-35 was somewhat hamstrung by the original concept to be a twin engine. Fact is, its not really possible to make it much cheaper then an SU-35. So you end up with much less capability and not much savings. These are realities placed upon MIG by the state. They do not define the spec, the RuAF does. They deliver the spec, and they have succeeded in this time and again. They are more victim of circummstance. When you ask ANYONE on the planet to name a Russian warplane, most people will say MIG, its a fantastic brand, with an extraordinary history. Russia would be daft to bin such a legendary brand. Its the Kalashnikov of jet fighters. As for Sukhois civilian planes, so far not great.

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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:37 am

    Isos wrote:Mig-35 isn't a new fighter. It's just a renamed mig-29M/K. Taking so much time to "develop" a variant of an existing fighter is a joke.

    They can blame only themselves.


    Just look how fast they develop this aircraft with existing technology. Mig-35 should have been ready since 2007. Only the radar is different from mig-29M.

    How much money/people are they given to develop it? It was not a prioirty for the RuAF. Its possible MIG is to blame, but without knowing all the circumstances I cannot rightfully say so. The RuAF as far as I can tell does not really want MIG-35s, they want heavy fighters

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:43 am

    mnztr wrote:
    The MIG-35 was somewhat hamstrung by the original concept to be a twin engine. Fact is, its not really possible to make it much cheaper then an SU-35. So you end up with much less capability and not much savings. These are realities placed upon MIG by the state. They do not define the spec, the RuAF does. They deliver the spec, and they have succeeded in this time and again. They are more victim of circummstance. When you ask ANYONE on the planet to name a Russian warplane, most people will say MIG, its a fantastic brand, with an extraordinary history. Russia would be daft to bin such a legendary brand. Its the Kalashnikov of jet fighters. As for Sukhois civilian planes, so far not great.

    Lavochkin was a legendary brand in its time
    Illyushin
    Antonov
    Hell Sikorsky was once upon a time

    So what happened
    Lavochkin lost out to MiG in the post WW2 era, and gradually filled the niche of rocketry and spacecraft
    Illyushin was forced out of the CAS and bomber niche, and drifted towards transport aircraft instead
    Antonov went over to the Ukraine and was ruined along with everything else in the country
    Sikorsky emigrated to America and it became an American brand instead

    You know it happens. And more than once we've seen aircraft bureaus forced out of one segment of aerospace only to find their place in another one.

    Like I said I hope MiG finds success with the MiG-41 platform, I really do.
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:45 am

    time in russia is 4:45am what time they open?
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:47 am

    flamming_python wrote:He doesn't have a source

    Despite his authoritative tone in his original post, turns out that he's just "speculating"



    Well either way we'll find out soon, won't we now

    Yes, I just saw that! What a clown. He realized once he posted that tweet that ooops! I better walk it back since it's only wishful thinking and I really don't know what the heck I'm talking about before Rostec gets Twitter to ban my ass! The audacity is really something else and it all points to some kind of jealousy or hatful desire to knock it down.

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:53 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:@ Backman, this guy from Aviation Week Magazine says the following which is a bit disappointing but I'm trying to locate the source to read the full thing and see how he got this information and how credible it is, certainly the part about it being a plywd mockup but for sure the part about using a plywood mockup to attract foreign investment to partner and fund the project.  Anyone hear other sources claim the same thing or do we think this is more likely a bunch of mumbo jumbo jive dung?  

    Steve Trimble, a military aviation, missile and aerospace expert at Aviation Week Network, said the plane on display is a mock-up and the Russians in particular, via their Rostec/Sukhoi companies, are looking for a partner to fund the project.

    "Just in case anyone needs clarification: the Checkmate/LTS shown here is a life-size model out of plywood, not a real plane," he said in a tweet via his Twitter account. It is clearly a speculative design in the hope of attracting foreign investment to start developing it.”
    This is clearly not a plywood mockup. Most likely, this is a mockup that is as similar as possible to the existing aircraft

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:00 am

    I did sort of get the mockup vibe after seeing how thin the front intake was, at least from the first leaked photo.
    As well as the side view of the plane from inside the hanger.. the lighting looked a little off

    But na, I don't think so.
    They wouldn't go and do this whole build-up and drama just for the sake of a mock-up. Nor invite all these foreign delegations. Nor tow it around the runway. That's just too much. They're not clowns. This is a serious business involving big money, and they're not going to waste anybody's time

    It has to be a static prototype at the very least.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:23 am

    flamming_python wrote:Then for a long time their baby was the LMFS. They agreed to do a joint-project with the UAE, I think Brazil showed interest as well. Well lo and behold it somehow became the Sukhoi LTS, after years of no-show from MiG. Albeit the LTS at least has clearly a lot of input from the MiG bureau (not sure if they will get any profits from it though).

    They showed off the MiG Skat back 10 years ago. It was interesting for the time, yet somehow the concept eventually evolved into a Sukhoi project as well - the S-70 Okhotnik...

    I don't see any connection between those projects

    MiG was tinkering with LMFS but they were mostly sitting on their asses and waiting for someone from abroad to start dropping cash on them (pretty much 90s Roskosmos modus operandi only in airplane market) which nobody did of course

    Sukhoi clearly made this one based on Su-57


    As for Skat other than flying wing setup it has nothing in common with S-70 to say nothing of the fact that UAV tech in Russia was non-existent back then and that everything we see today in that segment was developed with no involvement from MiG whatsoever





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    Post  Lurk83 Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:28 am

    Omg! 30mins!

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    Post  Makarov420 Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:38 am

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:39 am

    Lurk83 wrote:Omg! 30mins!

    is there a link to the live presentation?
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    Post  Lurk83 Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:40 am

    PhSt wrote:
    Lurk83 wrote:Omg! 30mins!

    is there a link to the live presentation?

    Steaming live on Rostec's YouTube channel
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    Post  Lurk83 Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:15 am

    Lurk83 wrote:
    PhSt wrote:
    Lurk83 wrote:Omg! 30mins!

    is there a link to the live presentation?

    Steaming live on Rostec's YouTube channel

    Apparently not. I was misinformed. Sorry
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:16 am

    The presentation is still 13 hours and 45 minutes away. The midnight thing seems like Twitter account post or something.
    There is no action on any of the official Youtube channels.

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    Post  Lurk83 Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:16 am

    Lurk83 wrote:
    PhSt wrote:
    Lurk83 wrote:Omg! 30mins!

    is there a link to the live presentation?

    Steaming live on Rostec's YouTube channel

    Apparently not. I was misinformed. Sorry

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