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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:57 pm

    Backman wrote:...They should have given it the Mig name just for its sake. Mig has a successful history with single engines. They are all under one roof anyway. It's just marketing at this point. Maybe do like the Mig 23 and have a Mig and Sukhoi version.

    Why should MiG's incompetence be rewarded by allowing them to put their failed name on someone else's product?



    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:One of Western mass media says that US intelligence calls new fighter "Screamer"...

    Now that's a good name right there thumbsup
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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:20 pm

    Isos wrote:Who cares about their name choices ? Did they become the reference like a wikipedia that we have to quote/listen to ?

    The only name is the one that its creator gives it. Just stop quoting them. That should be a forum rule.


    Those assholes will soon start renaming people.

    This sounds like censorship to me, faggotry of the highest order.

    Don't get upset by nicknames as if you're one of these liberal poofters which I assume you aren't. If the Russians started giving names to NATO aircraft, we here in the West wouldn't give a sh*t.

    I'm not the biggest fan of screamer (edit* actually I don't think it's too bad); it makes some sense due that gaping intake but nevertheless it doesn't match NATO's naming conventions.


    Last edited by Finty on Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 pm

    Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 pm

    That's called propaganda. The more you repeat a lie the more it will be accepted and it works since human learn to talk.

    It's up to you if you want them to made you think things the way they want.

    We shouldn't spread their bullshit. That's my opinion.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:32 pm

    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They will say they stole a ukrainian antonov top secret program from USSR time.

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    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:34 pm

    Isos wrote:
    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They will say they stole a ukrainian antonov top secret program from USSR time.

    Yes, this is obviously top secret Antonov single engine cargo plane...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:47 pm

    medo wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They will say they stole a ukrainian antonov top secret program from USSR time.

    Yes, this is obviously top secret Antonov single engine cargo plane...

    Weapon bays are actually cargo bays. It can carry dollars for corrupted ukrainian politicians. So it is a cargo.

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    BTW don't be so hard on the US strong crowd in their ivory towers, this is what the F-35 was supposed to be and it clearly isn't, so after spending 1.5 trillion dollars on that aircraft, their brand new affordable plane that was going to replace both the F-22 and everything else

    In comparison the Russians are showing one of their 5th gen light fighter designs which looks like it should be a good compliment for the MiG-35 over the next decade or so, but what the new Russian type will look like and how it will differ is another thing to look forward to seeing...

    Eh? I'm afraid this sounds wrong, since when was the F-35 ever intended to be an F-22 replacement as opposed to being part of a high/low mix of F-22/F-35.

    As for your second point, that's food for thought. Does the VKS need two 'lightweight fighters' considering how the MiG-29 as a lightweight has basically been seen off by the heavyweight Su-30SM. I guess it all depends on how many lightweight fighters the air force thinks need and whether they'll go down the route of having a mix of 5th gen and 4th gen as they have for heavyweights in the Su-57 and Su-30/35 mix or just settling on lower numbers of just T-75s and no MiG-35s. It will be interesting, until now I hadn't really considered the role of a new lightweight fighter!


    BTW did we ever get an explanation of why there was an Argentine pilot wearing a f*cking 617 Sqn Dambusters patch? Was it a strange and convoluted reference to the Falklands War (which the RAF's lightnings would hopefully smoke the Argie's T-75s in a sequel) or just laziness/randomness.


    Last edited by Finty on Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Finty
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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:05 pm

    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They're too busy flogging the family's heirlooms to the Chinese!
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:12 pm

    Finty wrote:
    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They're too busy flogging the family's heirlooms to the Chinese!

    Not even. They are too busy arresting people using PS4's to farm rare crap in video games to sell using bots.

    I ain't even kidding.
    Finty
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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:17 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Finty wrote:
    medo wrote:Anything from Ukraine? They always claim, that Russia could not produce anything new, only twist old Soviet heritage... This must be a big b*t hurt and it will be a hurt of epic proportions, if this is a real prototype and not a mock-up...

    They're too busy flogging the family's heirlooms to the Chinese!

    Not even.  They are too busy arresting people using PS4's to farm rare crap in video games to sell using bots.

    I ain't even kidding.

    I've heard about this gold mining for games like World of Warcrraft, ironically it happens a lot in China or at least it did. A boring existence.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:24 pm

    kvs wrote:On the subject of single engine reliability.   The F-35 engine is encountering serious problems with the protective "coatings" (more like processing)
    on the turbine blades wearing down too fast.   I have not heard any similar stories about Russian engines.  

    All the dick stroking about US superiority and we see such fail.   The talk about Russian engine reliability and maintenance frequency
    is so much self-serving pap for delusional idiots.

    So it is a good choice to develop this single engine jet just to show the world that Russia can do it.

    They went quite aggressive with the TIT in the F135, it is normal that they have issues, but I don't think they have screwed it that badly, apparently they have new production technology which is more reliable. The problem is not the engine, the problem is that, in order to make the concept based on such an airframe workable, you need to squeeze any performance advantage you have in the engine and then some more, that is why they are permanently talking about the F-35 re-engining. They know that with the same engine, almost any plane will dance in circles around a F-35.


    Last edited by LMFS on Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:25 pm

    medo wrote:
    Isos wrote:...They will say they stole a ukrainian antonov top secret program from USSR time.
    Yes, this is obviously top secret Antonov single engine cargo plane...

    Unless this plane turns out to be elaborate wood stove then no, there is no connection with Antonov products



    Finty wrote:As for your second point, that's food for thought. Does the VKS need two 'lightweight fighters' considering how the MiG-29 as a lightweight has basically been seen off by the heavyweight Su-30SM. ...

    Su-30SM did end up being affordable in the big scheme of things but it happened almost by accident, there is no guarantees that Su-57 will be as affordable down the road

    We should not forget that that Su-30 became that affordable 30 years after it's progenitor Su-27 was introduced (I don't think they want to wait that long) and that initially Su-27 was operated alongside fleet of more affordable aircraft

    Plus there are parts of Russia like it's southern border with various -stans where you don't really need something like Su-57 or even Su-30 because neighbourhood is still stuck in mid-20th century which still translates into a lot of real estate and jets considering Russia's size  

    Also if they really do want to have some kind of carrier ships in the future then having a more compact up to date plane would go a long way



    Finty wrote:...BTW did we ever get an explanation of why there was an Argentine pilot wearing a f*cking 617 Sqn Dambusters patch? Was it a strange and convoluted reference to the Falklands War (which the RAF's lightnings would hopefully smoke the Argie's T-75s in a sequel) or just laziness/randomness.

    I don't think it's anything that elaborate, more like simple case of Russians putting in the same amount of effort into accurately depicting foreigners as Hollywood does into depicting Russians



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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:46 pm

    Mir wrote:Mig will now have to really pull up their socks, but having competition usually spurs the best from somebody. I'm pretty sure we'll see the Mig-41 and a new light fighter from Mig in the very near future.  

    Here's hoping!
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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:56 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    limb wrote:

    And the US has working prototypes of railguns. Where are those railguns now, outside of sci fi novels?

    Rail guns will stay as a wet dream of Muricans as long as they will not get a technology of fast production of big energy amounts - that is the main issue there.
    And as they know shit about constructing modern nuclear reactors, yet small ones, all they can do is apply more Marvel heroes to the rescue.
    Captain Murica will have a rail gun stuck up his ass. Or will stick it to WonderFatty, or something more progressive dunno

    Funniest comment I've seen on here!

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:13 pm

    Thanx mate Laughing
    Still, as English is not my first language, obviously, not sure if that acted as sarcasm Laughing scratch
    Tried to be serious as a heart attack Laughing

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    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:27 pm

    For all the people really focusing a lot on MiG's competition with Sukhoi, it really doesn't matter anymore, they're all part of UAC, Su-57, LTS, MiG-41, LMFS, yadda yadda, it was stated clearly that the 6th gen fighter program would be a UAC program, not necessarily a Sukhoi or a MiG.

    It ain't USSR days where each aviation bureau had it's own designated factory, all that is pooled together including design resources, and that's not a bad thing. Tu-160 was only built because Tupolev threw a fit over Sukhoi's bomber design winning and refused to produce in their factory as Sukhoi's factory was at capacity already.

    So this whole thing over MiG winning or not winning doesn't really matter, it's factory at Lukhovitsky and design bureau are all part together with Sukhoi's, Tupolev, etc. It doesn't really matter anymore.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:28 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    kvs wrote:On the subject of single engine reliability.   The F-35 engine is encountering serious problems with the protective "coatings" (more like processing)
    on the turbine blades wearing down too fast.   I have not heard any similar stories about Russian engines.  

    All the dick stroking about US superiority and we see such fail.   The talk about Russian engine reliability and maintenance frequency
    is so much self-serving pap for delusional idiots.

    So it is a good choice to develop this single engine jet just to show the world that Russia can do it.

    They went quite aggressive with the TIT in the F135, it is normal that they have issues, but I don't think they have screwed it that badly, apparently they have new production technology which is more reliable. The problem is not the engine, the problem is that, in order to make the concept based on such an airframe workable, you need to squeeze any performance advantage you have in the engine and then some more, that is why they are permanently talking about the F-35 re-engining. They know that with the same engine, almost any plane will dance in circles around a F-35.

    That sounds plausible, but the bit of information about the F-35 engines working near the load limit under normal conditions
    in the second article I cited tells me that there is a design fail.   If the wear was due to excessive speed operation and
    overuse, then fine.   But these engines are basically failing under light load normal use.

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    Post  Finty Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:36 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Thanx mate Laughing
    Still, as English is not my first language, obviously, not sure if that acted as sarcasm Laughing scratch
    Tried to be serious as a heart attack Laughing

    It's not far off the truth regarding Yankee Woketards!

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    Post  mnztr Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Why should MiG's incompetence be rewarded by allowing them to put their failed name on someone else's product?

    How has MIG been incompetent? Pretty much every fighter they have designed and built has become a legend. They had some with a few rough edges initially, but every single plane has been a success with some extraordinary machines like Mig 15, 17,21, 25, 31 and 29. Even 35 is looking good.

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:47 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Why should MiG's incompetence be rewarded by allowing them to put their failed name on someone else's product?

    How has MIG been incompetent? Pretty much every fighter they have designed and built has become a legend....

    When was their last legend designed?



    mnztr wrote:...Even 35 is looking good.

    So good that nobody wants to have anything to do with it (and so timely...)


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    Post  mnztr Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:49 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:For all the people really focusing a lot on MiG's competition with Sukhoi, it really doesn't matter anymore, they're all part of UAC, Su-57, LTS, MiG-41, LMFS, yadda yadda, it was stated clearly that the 6th gen fighter program would be a UAC program, not necessarily a Sukhoi or a MiG.

    It ain't USSR days where each aviation bureau had it's own designated factory, all that is pooled together including design resources, and that's not a bad thing. Tu-160 was only built because Tupolev threw a fit over Sukhoi's bomber design winning and refused to produce in their factory as Sukhoi's factory was at capacity already.

    So this whole thing over MiG winning or not winning doesn't really matter, it's factory at Lukhovitsky and design bureau are all part together with Sukhoi's, Tupolev, etc. It doesn't really matter anymore.

    Which Sukhoi bomber are you talking about here? The T-4? that was wayyy before or the T-60S which was inferior to the TU-22M
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    Post  mnztr Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:56 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Why should MiG's incompetence be rewarded by allowing them to put their failed name on someone else's product?

    How has MIG been incompetent? Pretty much every fighter they have designed and built has become a legend....  

    When was their last legend designed?



    mnztr wrote:...Even 35 is looking good.

    So good that nobody wants to have anything to do with it (and so timely...)
    I would say the MIG-29, but that is more dependant on state funds. Who will buy the Mig-35 is still unwritten. The EGyptian mig-29 is very close and will be upgraded with the MIG-35 radar. The MIG bureau has been somewhat neglected by the Russian govt. Nothing they have done or not done can be discribed and incompetence. None of the US companies that designed their last 3 legends even exist any more.


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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:34 am

    MiG put their resources in the wrong place, and their mainstay MiG-29 platform never worked up as many export sales as Sukhoi's Su-27 range did.

    They lost to Sukhoi regarding the PAK-FA project; the MiG 1.42/1.44 was an interesting design but what it wasn't was a 5th gen fighter or something that could be evolved into one

    Then for a long time their baby was the LMFS. They agreed to do a joint-project with the UAE, I think Brazil showed interest as well. Well lo and behold it somehow became the Sukhoi LTS, after years of no-show from MiG. Albeit the LTS at least has clearly a lot of input from the MiG bureau (not sure if they will get any profits from it though).

    They showed off the MiG Skat back 10 years ago. It was interesting for the time, yet somehow the concept eventually evolved into a Sukhoi project as well - the S-70 Okhotnik

    Of course we don't know all the details, whether MiG was shut-off in favour of Sukhoi leadership by choice of Rostech or UAC.. that they're both part of anyway.

    The MiG-35 failed to generate much interest inside or outside Russia, and it was yet another product with a protracted development time. I think they went the wrong direction with that one. Should have been a lot cheaper than the Su-35, just offering new-gen radar and avionics in lieu than the rest of the bells and whistles. Maybe the fact that the AESA radar couldn't be developed in a reasonable time played a factor, and one that was outside of MiG's control.

    So far they haven't got anything new to their name.

    Other than of course the MiG-31BM, MiG-31K upgrades and the MiG-29K carrier wing aircraft. The later was particularly impressive in terms of its specs and the way that it adapted the MiG-29 platform to a carrier setting.

    The Sukhoi bureau meanwhile did not only win all the contracts, but even managed to branch out into civilian aviation during the same time period

    Well here's to hoping that MiG at least get to bring the MiG-41 to fruition.

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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:04 am

    Mig-35 isn't a new fighter. It's just a renamed mig-29M/K. Taking so much time to "develop" a variant of an existing fighter is a joke.

    They can blame only themselves.


    Just look how fast they develop this aircraft with existing technology. Mig-35 should have been ready since 2007. Only the radar is different from mig-29M.

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