Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+56
Daniel_Admassu
SeigSoloyvov
slasher
tomazy
jaguar_br
tipex12
mack8
PhSt
Makarov420
x_54_u43
Scorpius
lyle6
hoom
zepia
higurashihougi
Finty
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Atmosphere
JohninMK
flamming_python
mnztr
littlerabbit
Broski
Hole
kvs
marcellogo
owais.usmani
Lurk83
RTN
Big_Gazza
Cheetah
Tingsay
TMA1
GunshipDemocracy
ALAMO
medo
Dima
Mindstorm
tanino
GarryB
Backman
Gomig-21
thegopnik
Kiko
limb
AMCXXL
Arrow
dino00
George1
Isos
PapaDragon
LMFS
Mir
miketheterrible
Russian_Patriot_
Rasisuki Nebia
60 posters

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6945
    Points : 7037
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:34 pm

    Backman wrote:New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 F75b20311fb2

    I guess, there is no point to discuss that further until we will see in "naked" Laughing
    If that thing would require so big air intake, it would mean that engine is much more powerful than we have ever expected.
    My suggestion is, let's live it for a few days dunno
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10926
    Points : 10904
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Hole Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:57 pm

    Rememer what was promised at the beginning of the F-35 program. The plane will be ready very fast and be cheap because all the tech has already been developed for the F-22. In the end they invented the wheel new, so to say. It seems the russian developers did exactly that, developed all the stuff for the Su-57, took some to build the Okhotnik and now this nice "little" plane. Of course, our western friends and partners will claim that it could only be done because the evil russians stole all the stuff from poor american companies. cry

    The next days and weeks will be very interesting to watch. Twisted Evil

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, tanino, PapaDragon, LMFS, Kiko and like this post

    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 36
    Location : portugal

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  dino00 Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:36 pm

    Will they announce ROFAR?
    What other technologies

    tanino likes this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1746
    Points : 1748
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  thegopnik Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:02 pm

    I dont know about ROFAR if it is even a possible presentation or if it would be on the 2nd version Su-57 which is tested in 2022-2024 so maybe maks 2023 or 2025 airshow if we get lucky? I want the air to air/ground weapons the most or some features mentioning the avionics of the Su-70 atleast. More TEM projects will make me happy to.
    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5108
    Points : 5104
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:04 pm

    KRET clarified recently what we have been saying, that ROFAR is at the level of basic research, that means, decade(s) away from implementation.

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 288797

    medo, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, Russian_Patriot_ and Mir like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11341
    Points : 11311
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Isos Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:11 pm

    IMO that plane will be a flying S-70 with a pilot and a design of a fighter. That's why it is fast to build. All the systems will be the same.
    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1746
    Points : 1748
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  thegopnik Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:28 pm

    LMFS wrote:KRET clarified recently what we have been saying, that ROFAR is at the level of basic research, that means, decade(s) away from implementation.

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 288797

    in other words like a pulse detonation engine Laughing

    It sure was mean of VEGA displaying those antennas and RTI stating in September 2019 that in a few years a prototype aircraft will have.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15282
    Points : 15419
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  kvs Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:32 pm

    Isos wrote:IMO that plane will be a flying S-70 with a pilot and a design of a fighter. That's why it is fast to build. All the systems will be the same.

    Not quite. The fuselage is clearly not some cosmetic modification. I am sure the avionics are different.

    It's like saying the Su-57 should have been built quickly since there was a Mig 1.44 prototype.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza and LMFS like this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  medo Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:51 pm

    We will have to wait for a week, to see it without cover. This cover is baggy to hide its details. But what could be seen uncovered is, that the plane is painted and looks very refined. Maybe this is not even the first prototype. We do not know, how long they develope it, maybe even longer than S-70 Ohotnik and at what stage it is. If it have electronics installed, as IRST, radar, etc, than it could be later stage prototype. First prototypes for static tests and for learning to fly doesn't need combat electronics and is usually not that refined and even without RAM (Su-57 first prototypes). If it is later stage, than it for sure made its first flight. After all, they bring to MAKS real plane, not a model.

    It's interesting, that all western spy agencies as CIA, MI6,... didn't notice this plane before. Sukhoi kept it secret and made a surprise.

    GarryB, tanino, littlerabbit, Hole and Backman like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13335
    Points : 13377
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:54 pm

    Hole wrote:Rememer what was promised at the beginning of the F-35 program. The plane will be ready very fast and be cheap because all the tech has already been developed for the F-22. In the end they invented the wheel new...

    They were supposed to make three versions of one plane

    Instead they decided to make three completely different planes that had to look the same

    That's where it went tits up



    Hole wrote:...It seems the russian developers did exactly that, developed all the stuff for the Su-57, took some to build the Okhotnik and now this nice "little" plane....

    I said months ago that MiG should take existing parts, a single engine and wrap them in new stealth airframe in order to develop new fighter jet

    At the time I was ridiculed by several individuals here

    But now Sukhoi did exactly that and took MiG's entire market segment lol1




    littlerabbit and TMA1 like this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18364
    Points : 18861
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  George1 Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:07 pm

    Russian 5th-gen light single-engine fighter
    Chinese FC-31,
    American F-35
    South Korean KF-21 Boramae

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 47285210

    dino00, Big_Gazza, tanino, PapaDragon, Gomig-21, littlerabbit, LMFS and like this post

    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 691
    Points : 689
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Broski Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:13 pm

    If this plane finds success on the export market and the VVS adopts a domestic version for its airforce, where would that leave the MiG LMFS? Would they even have a need for it anymore?
    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5108
    Points : 5104
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:16 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian 5th-gen light single-engine fighter
    Chinese FC-31,
    American F-35
    South Korean KF-21 Boramae

    And the only one that will probably be substantially different is the Russian one Cool

    George1, Big_Gazza, kvs, tanino, PapaDragon, littlerabbit, Scorpius and like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13335
    Points : 13377
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:27 pm

    Broski wrote:If this plane finds success on the export market and the VVS adopts a domestic version for its airforce, where would that leave the MiG LMFS? Would they even have a need for it anymore?

    I think it's safe to say that MiG LMFS has already been left behind, current day VKS has no patience for redundant products



    LMFS wrote:...And the only one that will probably be substantially different is the Russian one Cool

    No horizontal stabiliser, it's already substantially different


    littlerabbit likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11341
    Points : 11311
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Isos Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:56 pm

    Mig last chance is mig-41. If the program is late or not respecting the specs then it will be eaten by sukhoi.


    I guess this one will be named su-21 in ref to the year but also to the wonderful single engine mig-21.

    George1, dino00, tanino, PapaDragon, Gomig-21, littlerabbit and Finty like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5108
    Points : 5104
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:I think it's safe to say that MiG LMFS has already been left behind, current day VKS has no patience for redundant products

    Certainly, there have been countless names for the Russian light fighter. It makes as much sense to develop LMFS in parallel with the LTS as to develop the MFI together with the PAK-FA. That is, below zero.

    I will have to change my name here, but that is ok as far as we have a real plane FINALLY Cool

    No horizontal stabiliser, it's already substantially different

    I am pretty sure it will not be the only thing. The intake, TVC, and hopefully the bays are radically different, and many other solutions look like they are going to be unique. If Sukhoi manages to deliver, it will be the first proper and balanced realization of a "light" 5G fighter platform.

    dino00 and Backman like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15282
    Points : 15419
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  kvs Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:33 am

    LMFS wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russian 5th-gen light single-engine fighter
    Chinese FC-31,
    American F-35
    South Korean KF-21 Boramae

    And the only one that will probably be substantially different is the Russian one Cool

    It is quite different in the geometry of the intake. But that will not stop the drivel from haters about F-35ski.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, LMFS and Kiko like this post

    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2622
    Points : 2634
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Backman Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:48 am

    medo wrote:

    It's interesting, that all western spy agencies as CIA, MI6,... didn't notice this plane before. Sukhoi kept it secret and made a surprise.

    Because they are in the business of denial now. They only look for things that they want to find.

    Big_Gazza, kvs, littlerabbit, Kiko and Mir like this post

    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2622
    Points : 2634
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Backman Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:53 am

    Isos wrote:Mig last chance is mig-41. If the program is late or not respecting the specs then it will be eaten by sukhoi.


    I guess this one will be named su-21 in ref to the year but also to the wonderful single engine mig-21.

    They are all under one roof now. For all we know, people with Mig on their paychecks could have designed parts of this aircraft.

    Do we know with 100% certainty that it will say Sukhoi on the serial plate on this new bird ?


    I will have to change my name here, but that is ok as far as we have a real plane FINALLY Cool

    When did you start specializing in the LMFS ? What did you think the chances were that we'd see it come into existence ?

    GarryB and tanino like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5108
    Points : 5104
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:59 am

    Regarding Klimov, this is from today's interview to UEC and it is difficult to say more with less words:

    Secondly, a new generation of engines is being developed. The UEC's portfolio of ongoing developments includes new power plants for strategic and front-line aviation. A serious product fork is the question of developing a new generation engine to replace the RD-33/93. In my opinion, this is an important and promising product niche. A number of new twin-engine platforms are currently being developed around the world, focused on engines of this size. We do not see such a promising platform in the plans of our key internal customer yet. But in any case, in order to make an informed decision about the development prospects, it is necessary to study the appearance to clarify the technical and economic characteristics of the product.

    https://tass.ru/interviews/11912687

    kvs wrote:It is quite different in the geometry of the intake. But that will not stop the drivel from haters about F-35ski.

    They are saying now that it is a form of flattery, or that the design is copied form the F-35, or that it is a mix of F-22 and YF-23 thirty years late... while they buy F-15EX, retire the F-22, fail to field the F-35 and dream about a clean sheet 4.5G substitute for the F-16. Let us see the hysteric reactions when the ventral intake and the rest of the layout is revealed... Retard has become a high form of compliment for these arrogant no-brainers Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

    Backman wrote:They are all under one roof now. For all we know, people with Mig on their paychecks could have designed parts of this aircraft.

    Do we know with 100% certainty that it will say Sukhoi on the serial plate on this new bird ?

    Exactly, they will cooperate. Of course it seems that the honour of being the creator of the concept will not go to MiG, but they will have work and they will be able to recover. To what extent they get politically dominated by Sukhoi is an open question and depends on the government.

    When did you start specializing in the LMFS ? What did you think the chances were that we'd see it come into existence ?

    I started thinking about this I guess in 2017, I figured out that I could not solve my doubts (is it possible to create a true multirole light 5G fighter based on a izd. 30 sized engine?) without getting hands on and doing a 3D dimensional check myself, which ended as the model that has been circulating around. I knew the idea of a light single engine 5G fighter made tons of sense, but I am truly surprised that UAC has managed to keep it under wraps for so long while deep, concrete work was being developed. Not that I doubted they were checking the concept, but I admit how far they are with the design has caught me by surprise. Hats off to them for keeping it secret as they must. The resemblance of what I did and what we know until now is very nice to me, but I still want to wait the the 20th to see how the story ends Razz

    tanino, Hole and Backman like this post

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21


    Posts : 685
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2016-07-17

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:39 am

    Backman wrote:Is it possible that its a whole new engine ? I hope  not. But doesnt it seem too big to be built around a su 57 engine ? I thought it would be more practical to be a little smaller.

    That seems to be the main question about this aircraft. It does appear to be rather large when you look at that one pic with the bald man walking next to it. The girth is there even though the sagging tarp could have some effect on that, but the length is undeniable and it is pretty long, almost appears to be as long as the venerable Su-57.

    So the engine is a huge question mark. Will it be a single Al-41 or is the Izdeliye 30 ready and is already in there and would either of those give this thing a thrust to weight ratio of greater than 1 and a top speed of around Mach 2? Or is there a new engine that has been built especially for this thing?

    There was also a report that it would have TVC which I thought was interesting considering we've never seen a single Russian aircraft with a single engine that was also 360 degree TV. Some neat things to look forward to.

    Oh, and also it's designation will be neat to find out. And let's hope NATO behaves itself this time and not come up with a stupid and insulting name like "Felon" those bastards.

    Backman and Huzahkov like this post

    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 691
    Points : 689
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Broski Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:05 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:Oh, and also it's designation will be neat to find out.  And let's hope NATO behaves itself this time and not come up with a stupid and insulting name like "Felon" those bastards.
    They'll definitely give it a more flattering codename this time because they'll consider the single fighter plane as a hat-tip to the F-35, even though the F-35 program has been a complete failure to the point where they're having to resort to upgrading 4th generation fossils like the F-15 & F-16.

    Backman likes this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2845
    Points : 2837
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Arrow Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:42 am

    medo wrote:. After all, they bring to MAKS real plane, not a model.
    .

    It is not so sure whether it is a prototype or a mock-up. Neutral
    avatar
    Tingsay


    Posts : 183
    Points : 185
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Tingsay Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:20 am

    How are we so sure this thing has no horizontal stabilizers? Maybe it wasn't added yet when the pictures were taken?

    Backman likes this post

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 1550
    Points : 1576
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  limb Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:41 am

    Tingsay wrote:How are we so sure this thing has no horizontal stabilizers? Maybe it wasn't added yet when the pictures were taken?

    Maybe russian TVC technology is so advanced that they decided they dont need stabilizers, thus reducing drag. This raises the question if the TVC is 3D or 2D, and what benefits does 3D TVC add to a single engine fighter. My theiry is that 3D tvc adds diminishing returns for a light single engined fighter in terms of lower controllability compared to 2 engined fighters but more weight and cost. Therefore 2D system might be enough.

    Currently the only air force operating a single engined fighter with TVC is the PLAAF with the J-10C. It would be interesting if sukhoi snalyzed the J-10Cs performance to see if TVC for one engine is worth it.

    However, if sukhoi is like the people on this forum, they will deem all chinese engineering decisions as retarded and worthless because ofcourse, chinese are supposedly backward commie copying subhumans not capable of innovation...just like the west claims.

    Tingsay and Finty like this post


    Sponsored content


    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 8 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jun 15, 2024 6:35 am