The Situation in the Ukraine. #30

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, rt fucking sucks and I dunno why it's tolerated.

Because its key business is to get in touch with the western audience. General one, not Russian ascendents living abroad. Most of them don't share their perspective on major things, that is why they can not be informed about things directly, and the same way it is accepted in Russia or by Russians.

You are heating yourself up to the level of self-ignition
He was talking about the people who fled into Crimea after secession, which makes about 500 000 people. The point is, that they did not apply the Ukrainian law.
As far as this is just another stupid statement by a stupid Ukrainian chynovnyk, it has nothing to do with the ethnic cleansing of the Russians living there. You can find more harsh and even more stupid statements from Ukrainian side, starting from Julia the Thief.

It's typical that Ukrainian leadership try to outdo each other in stupid shit they say.

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, rt fucking sucks and I dunno why it's tolerated.

Because it delivers results that Soviet retards couldn't even begin to dream about

GarryB wrote:

The Kiev regime is threatening to ethnically cleans the Russian population of Crimea when it recovers the "occupied territories".
Andrei Reznik, the Vice Premier and Minister for Re-integration of Occupied Territories asserted on TV.

That is OK, I am sure the the people of Crimea and the Donbass will enjoy ethnically cleansing Kiev and all of what is now called the Ukraine when the Ukraine mounts its sure to fail attempts to recover occupied territories.

The thing is that the western fake stream media systematically ignores such pronouncements. And as with Serbs we will have cheering by all
the western hater vermin (recall "Serbs them right" as a newspaper headline) of this ethnic cleansing.

The west is literally composed of shit.

NOTE: would be nice but I'll wait until the ink drys...

Controversial Ukrainian Interior Minister Avakov resigns after seven years in role, facing claims of corruption & far-right links

One of Kiev’s most long-standing and notorious political titans, veteran Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, announced on Tuesday afternoon that he will stand down from the job of overseeing Ukraine’s domestic security and policing.

In a statement published on the Interior Ministry’s Facebook page, Avakov wrote that he had “submitted a letter of resignation” from the post and thanked officials in the department “for the years of joint work. Thanks to every officer, private and employee. The honor has been mine,” he added.

Avakov had been the longest-serving minister in the government, having first been appointed in 2014 after the country’s Maidan, and outlasted former president Petro Poroshenko. He was widely seen as one of the most influential and best-connected political figures in Ukraine.

In recent months, the long-standing minister has been dogged by criticism from the opposition over what they deemed to be the slow pace of law enforcement reform, including the prosecution of those said to be involved in killings during the 2014 violence. Five years after the bloody clashes, which left at least 100 pro-Maidan activists dead, 36 officers suspected of involvement in crimes were still said to be working in the force.

In addition, Avakov’s son, Oleksander, became embroiled in a row over alleged corruption, along with the country’s former deputy interior minister over claims of dodgy dealing as part of the award of a state contract worth more than half-a-million dollars. However, the case was dropped by prosecutors in 2018 over what officials said was a “lack of evidence.”

Avakov has also come under fire in the West for his perceived close links with the far-right Azov Batallion, an ultranationalist paramilitary force that have consistently displayed Nazi iconography and been linked to extreme violence. There have been numerous calls in the US and other nations to ban the group as an extremist organization.

Last year, the Ukrainian parliament’s Committee on Law Enforcement Affairs proposed to consider Avakov’s dismissal, with the committee unanimously backing the resolution. However, President Volodymyr Zelensky opposed the calls, saying that “there is still no better minister,” and that Avakov was a “wonderful” person to have in government.

https://www.rt.com/russia/529112-interior-minister-resigns-corruption/

Himmler also had some far-right links.

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, rt fucking sucks and I dunno why it's tolerated.

Because it delivers results that Soviet retards couldn't even begin to dream about

What results are those?

Spreading conspiracy theories to the lumpen-proletariat in the US?

flamming_python wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, rt fucking sucks and I dunno why it's tolerated.

Because it delivers results that Soviet retards couldn't even begin to dream about

What results are those?

Spreading conspiracy theories to the lumpen-proletariat in the US?

Soviets couldn't even do that even though that was their prime goal

RT does it on fraction of their budget in addition regular news programing

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, rt fucking sucks and I dunno why it's tolerated.

Because it delivers results that Soviet retards couldn't even begin to dream about

What results are those?

Spreading conspiracy theories to the lumpen-proletariat in the US?

Soviets couldn't even do that even though that was their prime goal

RT does it on fraction of their budget in addition regular news programing

The Soviets inspired a multitude of revolutions around the world. Large numbers of liberation struggles under the banner of their ideology. Huge workers movements in Latin and South America, in Europe as well.

That they didn't have a zanny 21st century news network, well yeah, that's a given.

But I don't see what RT has been accomplishing. It's greatest accomplishment is starting the era of alternatives to Western news agencies, but that was coming anyway, and other than that - just basically being a financial success and teaching people more about Russia. Well it's something. It's not in any way comparable to the USSR's once informational and cultural influence and reach.

flamming_python wrote:...The Soviets inspired a multitude of revolutions around the world. Large numbers of liberation struggles under the banner of their ideology. Huge workers movements in Latin and South America, in Europe as well....

And what did they have to show for it? Oh that's right, nothing

Bootleg copy of some shitty indie hair rock band album was worth more to average Soviet than majority (in a lot of cases all) of his family members

As for all those "liberation struggles" and "workers" bullshit half of those countries told Soviets to go fu¢k themselves the moment they got what they wanted and other half was stomped permanently by USA while Soviets sat on their asses too horrified to face down USA because nuclear war scary

I'd take RT over those dumbass Soviet "banners" any day of the week

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:...The Soviets inspired a multitude of revolutions around the world. Large numbers of liberation struggles under the banner of their ideology. Huge workers movements in Latin and South America, in Europe as well....

And what did they have to show for it? Oh that's right, nothing

Bootleg copy of some shitty indie hair rock band album was worth more to average Soviet than majority (in a lot of cases all) of his family members

As for all those "liberation struggles" and "workers" bullshit half of those countries told Soviets to go fu¢k themselves the moment they got what they wanted and other half was stomped permanently by USA while Soviets sat on their asses too horrified to face down USA because nuclear war scary

I'd take RT over those dumbass Soviet "banners" any day of the week

Not really. We still enjoy privileged relations with a range of countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America due to Soviet-era ties; most of them are still around.

So again what is this great Russian success, or RT success, or the success of any of these conspiracy theories or Russia's civilizational model or any of this shit today, around the world? All Russia can do today is act like a poor man's version of America.

Back in the day we were the top destination for the best Indian students, the best Chinese students, Vietnamese students, African students, Cuban students, Czechoslovakian students, everyone. A bunch of future leaders in Africa, the Middle East and Asia had been enrolled at Soviet institutes at one time or another.

These days Europe and the States are full of Indian doctors, Chinese businessmen, the best & brightest from around the world, young people from every corner of the globe ferociously competing to get into their universities. And then they weaponize these minorities and sometimes install them as new reigning aristocracies in a range of countries.

Not that I'm saying Russia should become some sort of Babylon of immigrant cultures - but again where's the equivalent success of Russia today? Where's even a fraction of it?
Even our current modest success, and links - are mostly just due to capitalizing (in the most literal sense) on what we built during the Soviet period.

flamming_python wrote:Not really. We still enjoy privileged relations with a range of countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America due to Soviet-era ties; most of them are still around....

And in all those countries USA runs the show and none of them want to have anything to do with you (conditionally, I mean USSR is dead and buried, Russia got saddled with their shit afterwards)

flamming_python wrote:So again what is this great Russian success, or RT success, or the success of any of these conspiracy theories or Russia's civilizational model or any of this shit today, around the world? ...

RT is being watched in USA, this was unreachable dream power fantasy of entire USSR

flamming_python wrote:...All Russia can do today is act like a poor man's version of America....

Poor man's USA is obscenely rich man's version of USSR

flamming_python wrote:...Back in the day we were the top destination for the best Indian students, the best Chinese students, Vietnamese students, African students, ....

And none of them would piss on you today even if you were on fire (unless you pay them, of course)

Also, back in a day is long forgotten past

flamming_python wrote:...Cuban students....

Hahahaha, oh yeah you are really making bank there

flamming_python wrote:...Czechoslovakian students, everyone. ....

Czechs are totally worshipping the ground you walk on

flamming_python wrote:...A bunch of future leaders in Africa, the Middle East and Asia had been enrolled at Soviet institutes at one time or another.....

Don't want to sound repetitive so please check paragraph/reply 4

PapaDragon wrote:
And in all those countries USA runs the show and none of them want to have anything to do with you (conditionally, I mean USSR is dead and buried, Russia got saddled with their shit afterwards)  

If that was the case then Washington would have succeeded in isolating Russia from 'the world' for real back in 2014.

Didn't work that way, most countries were in no hurry to listen to the almighty in the White House.

RT is being watched in USA, this was unreachable dream power fantasy of entire USSR

Was it?

Poor man's USA is obscenely rich man's version of USSR

Why would anyone pick the poor USA over the rich USA though? I mean if they're both sides of the same coin

I mean sure countries around the world have rivalries, conflicts. One picks one foreign sponsor and the other another. But the poor man's USA won't be anyone's prefered pick.

Like I said, we're lucky people still remember us from the days of the Soviet Union. That's the one thing that saves us, and affords us opportunities and prestige in the world these days that frankly we haven't re-earned.

But that won't last forever. Putin and his whole ideology/plan/model/whatever is just a rehashed tune from a bygone time.
The whole strategy of the Russian elites today is basically just to copy America as a development strategy and international strategy, or at least America up to about the 80s/90s after which time it started to go to shit. Minus the limits on political power and some things like that.

And none of them would piss on you today even if you were on fire (unless you pay them, of course)

Nonsense, neither India nor China were much receptive to Obama's overtures to them to isolate Russia. Vietnam was not enthusiastic to American offers about cutting ties with Russia in return for them supporting Vietnam in its disputes with China.
If we were just some random European upstart whatever though I doubt they would have given a damn. As it is though they believe in Russia funnily enough.

Also, back in a day is long forgotten past

Is it to the Serbs?

Why would it be to anyone else?

Hahahaha, oh yeah you are really making bank there  

I understand you worship wealth and power but do keep yourself under control

Czechs are totally worshipping the ground you walk on  

Now less rather less than then
And certainly no students here

Don't want to sound repetitive so please check paragraph/reply 4

Neither do I

flamming_python wrote:...I understand you worship wealth and power...

If Soviets had wealth they would have still existed

Or did they think that being hungry gives them power? It doesn't, money does

We can talk forever about all this.

Regardless point is Russia today does not have a fraction of the ear of worldwide opinion and discourse as the USSR had. Putin has a lot of respect, as does the legacy of the USSR, this is what gives Russia some weight among the non-European world.
So we have our friends, and they won't sign up for any project to isolate us or limit our reach. But no-one looks to Russia as some sort of alternative model of social and human development; rather just as someone who can balance out the US.
At most, just some conservative and bible-thumping types in America who are appalled by LGBT hedonism in the major cities and cite Putin as some sort of protector of Christian values and of the white man (both assumptions are pretty funny considering Russia's has Europe's largest Muslim population and is not just composed of European-looking people)

But then today Russia doesn't need a messianic ideology, and to spend tons in support of developing nations today anyway. I wouldn't advocate that even if the USSR somehow reformed. Rather, just focus on your own development and try to set a good standard. Eventually others will emulate your best practices. That will not only be good for the world, but also for Russia.
And in terms of foreign relations:
- accept debts and collateral, but not to your banks who will cripple developing nations with interest rates and demands for ever greater reforms and political influence.
- sell vaccines, but don't just wait for your competitors to offer the patents to their medicines before announcing that you're ready to offer yours as well. Offer it from the beginning, for those countries which have some capacities for such
- even in countries with weak political systems and undeveloped economies, show respect. Propose win-win industrial projects, natural resource exploitation to countries in Africa, the Middle East, South America - rather than using leverage to extract the maximum amount of profits for just your own companies.
- accept foreign students, but not for the stated aim of sucking up the developing world's best brains and talents. Returning to build up their own homelands is no worse an alternative than staying and working in Russia.
- military intervene when necessary, to defeat foreign-sponsored threats, defend kin or in support of military allies; but don't make a habit of it, nor disrespect the sovereignty of other nations and their right to an independent path of development, as long as it's not aimed at destroying your own.
- don't impose your own political practices or cultural norms, don't support political fringes or minorities in grabbing power with your backing, allow other countries to find their own way. If a neighboring country expresses a desire to more closely integrate however, then there's nothing wrong with that.

A lot of this Russia does to one degree or another, while in other areas Russia can improve on, or the Soviet Union itself was guilty of. What's important at least is not to further Westernize as such.

As for wealth, there's enough of it in Russia already. It's just a question of exploiting it efficiently and making sure everyone gets a share of the proceeds.

I strongly believe that if you want to defeat Western financial and political hegemony of the world, it's not so much necessary to be more wealthy than them, as it is to be better than them, and offer countries less predatory alternatives.

Couldn't agree more FP.
Well said, especially:

flamming_python wrote:just focus on your own development and try to set a good standard. Eventually others will emulate your best practices. That will not only be good for the world, but also for Russia.

“Ukraine needs to buy five decommissioned boats from the U.S. to block Russian ports in Crimea and keep away Russians from Sevastopol” said editor-in-chief of the official Ukrainian Military Portal

Several old (presumably rusty) US boats are expected to be able to blockade Russian ports lol.

Black Sea would end up with new artificial reefs.

VARGR198 wrote:“Ukraine needs to buy five decommissioned boats from the U.S. to block Russian ports in Crimea and keep away Russians from Sevastopol” said editor-in-chief of the official Ukrainian Military Portal

Several old (presumably rusty) US boats are expected to be able to blockade Russian ports lol.

I say do it

Maybe they plan to sink those at the harbor entrance or a waterway

More insanity from the orcs.

https://sevastopol.su/news/sbu-potrebovala-chtoby-shoygu-srochno-yavilsya-v-mariupol

SBU demanded that Shoigu urgently appear in Mariupol
The Russian minister is due to arrive in Mariupol on July 20.

The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) summoned the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu to present a written suspicion and conduct legal proceedings. The corresponding document was signed by the senior investigator of the Main Directorate of the SBU Taras Butenko.

The Russian minister is due to arrive in Mariupol on July 20. He is expected at the Main Directorate of the SBU of Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Shoigu is charged with allegedly “creating militarized formations not provided for by law,” RIA Novosti reports.

Earlier, the former Ukrainian prime minister expressed the opinion that Zelensky was going to unleash a big war in Donbass, reports the Business newspaper Vzglyad. However, Russia has violated these plans. In addition, in June it became known that the Russian Permanent Mission to the UN published a collection of documents on the coup d'etat in Ukraine in 2014. The book contains documentary and photographic materials proving the criminal nature of the change of power, according to the TV channel 360.

404s do know that Shoigu often travels with his entourage?

"If you don't want to talk with Lavrov, Shoigu will talk with you"