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    Project 885: Yasen class #2

    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Mon May 31, 2021 5:32 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:

    And again, the only reason why the USA havent got loss of life submarine accident is sheer luck....

    Never heard of USS Thresher or USS Scorpion?

    Those happened back when Elvis was still around


    Like the last Soviet / Russian loss of life space accident.

    Columbia: 7 dead

    Kursk: 118 dead

    Russians are in the lead but if you think it's a good thing you are in for a surprise


    What you try to proove ?

    The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon May 31, 2021 8:21 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:What you try to proove ?

    The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

    Nothing, no need for proving

    What I am saying is that Russians and pro-Russians have no right to criticize USN subs and to even mention USS Thresher or USS Scorpion because those two events are anomalies in US naval history while Russians were routinely losing subs by the dozens


    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon May 31, 2021 8:22 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:What you try to proove ?

    The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

    Nothing, no need for proving

    What I am saying is that Russians and pro-Russians have no right to criticize USN subs and to even mention USS Thresher or USS Scorpion because those two events are anomalies in US naval history while Russians were routinely losing subs by the dozens



    losing subs by the dozens? You are exaggerating.

    But it is true, no one should criticize. But the US does it the most so they have no leg to stand on.

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    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:34 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:What you try to proove ?

    The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

    Nothing, no need for proving

    What I am saying is that Russians and pro-Russians have no right to criticize USN subs and to even mention USS Thresher or USS Scorpion because those two events are anomalies in US naval history while Russians were routinely losing subs by the dozens



    Ok, I write again :
    1. The USA has several near miss accidents in the past decades regards of submarine.
    2. It is sheer luck to avoid full crew loss in those accidents.
    3. It was simply due to luck - if you chack the CCCP/Russian space program vs USA, it is visible over there they haven't had similar luck.
    4. The CCCP/Russian submarines has more aggressive operational/design characteristics than the USA ones, and it is easy to drive safe on a family car (like virginaia) than with a race car (like yassen)


    Example, you have two chemist, both of them lack any discipline regards of chemical handling.

    Each of them ten chemical on they desk, including a bottle of nitroglicerine.

    Both of them randomly using them, and leave them on they desk.

    Both of them has an accident, one of them knock of a bottle of HNO3, the otehr knock off one bottle Nitroglycerin.

    One die, the other quietly tide up his desk.

    So, the one who "only" had an accident with the nitric accid has better work practice than the other with the nitro ?


    I have to mention the above accident caused the death of the lead scientis of the USA missile program.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:59 pm

    Oh fanboys trying to bring up US Sub accidents? Lol.

    I don't even neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to argue this.

    Just go look at US losses in sub accidents vs Russians, that's all the facts you need.

    Sheer luck lol, no it's not sheer luck. What propaganda. True we lost two boats but USSR losses before 1990 are just god awful in the amount

    Since 2000

    Russia: 161

    US: 4

    I am not counting submarine accidents such as S-80, K-129, B-37

    Sorry but "luck" doesn't work like that when it comes to submarines, this isn't some video game of RNG generator.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:34 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Oh fanboys trying to bring up US Sub accidents? Lol.

    I don't even neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to argue this.

    Just go look at US losses in sub accidents vs Russians, that's all the facts you need.

    Sheer luck lol, no it's not sheer luck. What propaganda. True we lost two boats but USSR losses before 1990 are just god awful in the amount

    Since 2000

    Russia: 161

    US: 4

    I am not counting submarine accidents such as S-80, K-129, B-37

    Sorry but "luck" doesn't work like that when it comes to submarines, this isn't some video game of RNG generator.
    What a load of BS. Since 2000. Yeah. Because Russia had its Thresher in 2000. Put the Thresher in the since 2000 bracket and what do we have
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:38 pm

    You might not like it but the facts don't give a **** about your feelings.

    The USSR has also lost more than 161 men in sub accidents A LOT MORE.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:01 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:You might not like it but the facts don't give a **** about your feelings.

    The USSR has also lost more than 161 men in sub accidents A LOT MORE.

    Ok let's give the US a standing ovation for having less man losses in submarines than Russia. 

    That doesnt mean that 161 to 4 is an objective number. Losses since the end of WW2 would be an objective number

    Russia has always been more agressive than the US anyway. We see that with the Typhoon class and the Belgrod now. As it has to be because it's a different doctrine

    Russia knows how to build submarines. There is 73 Kilo class boats out there. No losses. Recently losses have been German boats

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:21 pm

    Infantile fanboi dick stroking over accidents. As if there is some sort of inverse model that can be constructed from any of these submarine
    accidents about the level of submarine tech. Moron fanbois have no clue since they are too busy stroking their insecure egos via their
    dicks. As with rocket accidents, there are corrective measures and not total flushing of systems down the toilet. And there are not
    just submarines involved since the accidents have been caused by torpedoes and missiles on board those subs. If Soviet subs, and hence
    the wanker fantasy Russian ones, are such garbage then the accident rate would be through the roof.

    Insecure losers cannot even handle the notion that no US war on Russia is going to be a cakewalk. So they spend their time trolling
    fora about how inferior Russian intellects are and how Russia "does not make anything" and if it somehow manages to nail together a
    a system, then it is self-evidently garbage.

    This forum should adopt the same zero tolerance approach as the NATzO fanboi fora. If you spend all your time on this board pissing
    on Russia and Russians, without even making factual arguments with citations, then you deserve a permaban for being the troll that you
    are.

    And to the poster who smugly claimed that the serious members of this forum engage in such activity, GTFO.

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    Post  limb Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:22 pm

    Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:58 pm

    limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

    Last 40 years?

    K-429, hell they managed to sink the thing twice.

    K-219.

    Lots of others, Nevermind how many subs the USSR lost trying to get a functional nuclear submarine.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:03 pm

    kvs wrote:Infantile fanboi dick stroking over accidents.   As if there is some sort of inverse model that can be constructed from any of these submarine
    accidents about the level of submarine tech.    Moron fanbois have no clue since they are too busy stroking their insecure egos via their
    dicks.   As with rocket accidents, there are corrective measures and not total flushing of systems down the toilet.   And there are not
    just submarines involved since the accidents have been caused by torpedoes and missiles on board those subs.   If Soviet subs, and hence
    the wanker fantasy Russian ones, are such garbage then the accident rate would be through the roof.  

    Insecure losers cannot even handle the notion that no US war on Russia is going to be a cakewalk.   So they spend their time trolling
    fora about how inferior Russian intellects are and how Russia "does not make anything" and if it somehow manages to nail together a
    a system, then it is self-evidently garbage.

    This forum should adopt the same zero tolerance approach as the NATzO fanboi fora.   If you spend all your time on this board pissing
    on Russia and Russians, without even making factual arguments with citations, then you deserve a permaban for being the troll that you
    are.

    And to the poster who smugly claimed that the serious members of this forum engage in such activity, GTFO.


    Oh buts its okay if Russian fanboys make shit up and to use your words piss on Westerners?. and try to say the US is lucky it hasn't had nearly the amount of sub losses and deaths as the Russians have had with no facts to back it up.

    You can't cry wolf when your doing the same shit, you are such a child.

    One of the members ran their mouth and they got corrected, that is all.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:07 pm

    limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

    Freak accidents? More like a regular occurrences:

    1982 - K-27

    1985 - K-429

    1986 - K-219

    2000 - Kursk

    Bonus point for K-8 in 1970, good they didn’t have too many nuke subs before then because oh boy...

    It's a good thing Soviets don’t bother to name their subs otherwise there would have been a lot of jinxed names (almost as if they knew something others didn't  lol1  )



    Meanwhile in USA we had:

    1963 - Thresher

    1968 - Scorpion

    And that was it, half century later still nothing ...



    You can criticize American tanks, IFVs, airplanes, helicopters, even some surface ships or other stuff, you can most definitely criticize their AA systems and missiles but what you can't do is criticize their submarines because they are head and shoulders above others in that department

    It's not even up for debate

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    Post  lancelot Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:32 pm

    The Losharik fire was just a couple years ago in 2019. Did you people already forget that one.
    But I would have to agree that considering the large amount of submarines Russia operates and all the different classes in use the accident rate could be worse.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:36 pm

    lancelot wrote:The Losharik fire was just a couple years ago in 2019. Did you people already forget that one.
    But I would have to agree that considering the large amount of submarines Russia operates and all the different classes in use the accident rate could be worse.

    Losharik didn't sink

    If we were to count incidents with human casualties where sub wasn't lost we would be here all day

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    Post  Backman Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

    Freak accidents? More like a regular occurrences:

    1982 - K-27

    1985 - K-429

    1986 - K-219

    2000 - Kursk

    Bonus point for K-8 in 1970, good they didn’t have too many nuke subs before then because oh boy...

    It's a good thing Soviets don’t bother to name their subs otherwise there would have been a lot of jinxed names (almost as if they knew something others didn't  lol1  )



    Meanwhile in USA we had:

    1963 - Thresher

    1968 - Scorpion

    And that was it, half century later still nothing ...



    You can criticize American tanks, IFVs, airplanes, helicopters, even some surface ships or other stuff, you can most definitely criticize their AA systems and missiles but what you can't do is criticize their submarines because they are head and shoulders above others in that department

    It's not even up for debate

    That's 2 different subjects. Since Thresher , the US brought in Sub safe. And yes. Operationally they have been successful with less incidents than Russia.

    But the submarines and their technical design is something different. Russia has design bureaus that are really good at what they do. They have pushed the boundaries of design with stuff like the Typhoon.

    Comparatively I cant help but be underwealmed by the fact that US subs don't have auto loaders or escape pods and stuff like that.

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    Post  limb Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:23 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

    Freak accidents? More like a regular occurrences:

    1982 - K-27

    1985 - K-429

    1986 - K-219

    2000 - Kursk

    Bonus point for K-8 in 1970, good they didn’t have too many nuke subs before then because oh boy...

    It's a good thing Soviets don’t bother to name their subs otherwise there would have been a lot of jinxed names (almost as if they knew something others didn't  lol1  )



    Meanwhile in USA we had:

    1963 - Thresher

    1968 - Scorpion

    And that was it, half century later still nothing ...



    You can criticize American tanks, IFVs, airplanes, helicopters, even some surface ships or other stuff, you can most definitely criticize their AA systems and missiles but what you can't do is criticize their submarines because they are head and shoulders above others in that department

    It's not even up for debate


    K-27- obsolete design with relatively few failsafes. Ok Ill  give you that one
    K-429- caused by crew being on leave and the sub being under repair and put into sea for an exercise regardless
    K-219-freak accident, possibly caused by a US submarine colliding.

    only 2 of these are due to crew incompetence.

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    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:23 am

    Five from the six CCCP/Russian accidents happened with subs or with weapon systems that doesn't exist in the USA navy.

    It has the same takeway, if you use the same, slightly improved 50+ years old design without basic improvement, avoid any high capability but inheritently dangerous weapons then you are safe.

    Don't try new weapons, and you are safe : )

    So, only thing that left is to use broomstick instead of guns, and all unintentional discharge accident can be elminated.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:54 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:Five from the six CCCP/Russian accidents happened with subs or with weapon systems that doesn't exist in the USA navy.

    It has the same takeway, if you use the same, slightly improved 50+ years old design without basic improvement, avoid any high capability but inheritently dangerous weapons then you are safe.

    Don't try new weapons, and you are safe : )

    So, only thing that left is to use broomstick instead of guns, and all unintentional discharge accident can be elminated.

    Yeah yeah makeup all the excuses you want.

    Also what weapon systems don't we have lol? we have torps and VLS same as any Russian submarine.

    You are such a liar it's funny.



    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:58 am

    Huh K-219 had nothing to do with a collision....do people on this forum not know basic history?.

    K-219 was caused by a seawater leak into missile tubes which was leading to a gas build-up and an explosion was then caused when the weapons officer opened the hatch to try and vent which was a huge mistake. They didn't properly investigate.

    Also there is no proof of that US collision theory with another sub but hey doesn't stop you guys from carrying on that myth.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:08 am

    Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
    No US equivalents.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:24 am

    lancelot wrote:Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
    No US equivalents.

    None of the said accidents took place with those....
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    Post  PhSt Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:18 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
    No US equivalents.

    None of the said accidents took place with those....

    You were foolishly bragging that US has equivalents of all Russian naval weapon systems, you've been proven wrong. You've been BUSTED. American LIAR Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:26 am

    Kazan arriving at its home port.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:41 am

    Are we not going to count deaths outside the subs?

    Japanese fishermen and damaged cargo ships?

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