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    Project 885: Yasen class #2

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:39 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    Zarenkov added that according to the Navy's development strategy, the Yasen-M submarines are designed to become the backbone of attack submarine forces in the Russian fleet.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12098003
    The U.S Navy had stated that US naval reactor tech is a generation ahead, relying on 90% HEU to achieve reactor fuel life of > 30 years while Russia's current level of tech uses 40% enriched uranium that requires the boat to be cut open every 10 years to refuel. Is that true?

    Of course an Indian would believe that nonsense.  I got a bridge to sell you.

    America says a lot of shit regarding their technology.  You have to refuel every 5+ years for nuclear reactors.  And no, you dont have to cut anything open.

    LMAO, I can assure you, the latest reactors developed for the latest classes of American boats, as well as Yasen-M and Borei-A don't need to be refueled every 5-7 years, and you actually very much do have to cut open a submarine hull to refuel the reactor, as was done on older American and Soviet submarines, the only exception is the French, who build in a specific hatch into the hull, but this is a function of them unifying their reactor designs for both surface and submarine fleets which makes such a solution appropriate.

    Older subs maybe.  I doubt you need to do that on a Borei or Yasen. If it is still the case, seems rather odd they would continue the trend.  Maybe refueling isn't the 5 years anymore but hence I added the + in there.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:05 am

    IIRC the OK-650KPM of the 885M doesn't require refuelling over the boats design lifetime,ie 25-30 years.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:09 am

    I think it's pretty much standard these days.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:36 am

    For the Soviet subs of the 80s, refuelling at the mid-life repairs was a standard procedure.
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:39 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:LMAO, I can assure you, the latest reactors developed for the latest classes of American boats, as well as Yasen-M and Borei-A don't need to be refueled every 5-7 years, and you actually very much do have to cut open a submarine hull to refuel the reactor, as was done on older American and Soviet submarines, the only exception is the French, who build in a specific hatch into the hull, but this is a function of them unifying their reactor designs for both surface and submarine fleets which makes such a solution appropriate.
    SSNs like Akulas will have to escort SSBNs. Maybe SSNs will have to be refueled faster than a SSBN.

    The nuclear fission reactors on board the Russian submarines are probably more powerful compared to their U.S analogues.
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:11 pm

    Here is an article on RT back in 2018 about the "perpetual" reactor being developed by Rosatom.

    https://www.rt.com/news/435319-russia-perpetual-reactor-submarines/

    "A Rosatom subsidiary said it has developed and successfully tested a “perpetual reactor” capable of powering Russia’s newest nuclear submarines during their entire lifetime – without having to be refueled."

    "Now, with the new invention coming into use, Russian submarines will no longer need to undergo refueling and a reactor overhaul. Admiral Vladimir Popov, previously a Northern Fleet commander, suggested the “perpetual reactor” will see a rapid increase in the Navy’s capabilities, according to RIA Novosti."
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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:30 am



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    Post  Hole Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:56 pm

    Project 885: Yasen class #2 - Page 12 Cirkon25
    franco
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    Post  franco Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:06 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:


    And followed up with...


    The nuclear submarine Severodvinsk launched a Zircon rocket from a depth of 40 m from the White Sea at a conditional target in the Barents Sea - the RF Ministry of Defense.

    The flight of the Zircon rocket from emerging from the water to hitting the target in the Barents Sea fully corresponded to the specified parameters - the RF Ministry of Defense.

    https://tass-ru.translate.goog/armiya-i-opk/12570791?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

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    Post  Kiko Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:53 pm

    Submarine captain: nuclear submarine with "Zircon" can destroy the Pentagon building, 04/10/2021.

    A submarine with a Zircon missile on board can strike at any target from a distance of 1,000 km without the risk of being noticed, the submariner, captain 1st rank Igor Kurdin, told the VZGLYAD newspaper. The new rocket was successfully tested in the Barents Sea.

    “The range of the Zircon is from 500 to 1000 kilometers. From such a distance, no one will spot our submarine, unless they have been tracking it for a long time and purposefully, "said the chairman of the St. Petersburg Navy Submariners' Club, Captain 1st Rank Igor Kurdin.

    The interlocutor recalled that the task of the American anti-submarine forces is to detect our nuclear submarine before it launches missile launches. “The hypersonic speed suggests that once the Zircon is launched it is virtually impossible to destroy,” he added.

    In this regard, the expert pointed out that Russian nuclear submarines can destroy any major administrative and political center in the United States with Zircon, be it a military base or the central building of the Pentagon.

    On Monday, the press service of the Ministry of Defense reported that the Russian Navy had first tested the Zircon hypersonic missile from the Project 885 Ash nuclear submarine Severodvinsk. The shooting was carried out at a conditional sea target in the water area of ​​the Barents Sea. The flight of the rocket corresponded to the specified parameters, the test firing was recognized as successful.

    “The crew of the nuclear submarine missile cruiser Severodvinsk successfully completed the second test launch of the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile. The second test firing of the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile was carried out by the crew of the Severodvinsk nuclear submarine missile cruiser for the first time from a submerged position, from a depth of 40 meters, in the White Sea at a conditional sea target in the Barents Sea, " RIA Novosti reported.

    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense announced its intention to complete the state tests of Zircon in 2021. It is expected that the Zircons will be armed with frigates of project 22350, the newest multipurpose submarines of project 885M Yasen-M, as well as the missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, which is being upgraded, and the submarine Irkutsk, which will be brought to the level of 949AM during modernization.

    https://m.vz.ru/news/2021/10/4/1122319.html

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    Post  LMFS Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:37 pm

    The only correction to be made to the article is that the range has been reported as 1500 km against land targets... Wink
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:47 am

    Confirmation that the 949AM will be able to carry Zircons Very Happy

    It was suspected, but nice to have some (semi) official confirmation. thumbsup

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:25 am

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12761997

    MOSCOW, October 26. / TASS /. The launches of cruise missiles "Onyx" and "Caliber-PL", including one salvo, from the nuclear submarine "Novosibirsk" of project 885M (code "Ash-M") are scheduled for mid-November. This was reported to TASS by a source in the shipbuilding industry.

    "According to the Novosibirsk state test program for mid-November, the Onyx and Caliber-PL cruise missiles will be launched from both surface and submerged positions. One of them will be a salvo," he said.

    TASS has no official confirmation of this information.

    Earlier it was reported that the nuclear submarine "Novosibirsk" first went to sea for factory sea trials (ZKhI) in July. Also during the International Naval Salon, the head of the Sevmash Production Association (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) Mikhail Budnichenko told TASS that after the completion of the ZHI, this submarine will begin state tests and at the end of 2021 it is planned to transfer it to the fleet.

    The nuclear submarine "Novosibirsk" is the first serial submarine of the project 885M "Yasen-M". It was launched on December 25, 2019. The main strike weapons of the ships of this project are the Kalibr-PL and Onyx cruise missiles. In the future, they will receive Zircon hypersonic missiles, tests of which began with the Severodvinsk nuclear submarine of the Yasen family in early October 2021.

    The lead submarine of the Yasen-M project, Kazan, was handed over to the Northern Fleet on May 7, 2021. On July 30, the Krasnoyarsk submarine of the same project was launched at the Sevmash enterprise in Severodvinsk.

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:26 am

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    Post  Arrow Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:00 pm

    This is total nonsense. All submarines of ptoject 885 and 885M can carry and launch Cirkons. Why is it supposed to carry 3M22 from Perm. Recently, Severodvinsk launched two Circons. Of course, maybe Perm will be a little modification in the project 885. Maybe they will mount more VLS etc. The same was with the 971 where there were several versions of this unit.

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    Post  Isos Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:24 pm

    It's not only about launchers. Maybe it needs new antennas or communucation softwares to receive orders for the use of the Tsirkon.
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    Post  TMA1 Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:00 pm

    Yeah this isnt just a next gen onix. It is fundamentally new generation of weapon that requires an entire infrastructure to use. Tu-95 bears, IL-38's, other ships and comms equipment on land and even space. It is bleeding edge, like a wonder weapon of ww2 days.

    In fact it is one thing I fear about the zircon. It would be a good first strike weapon but I worry it doesnt have the autonomy to act on it's own even with interference and/or destruction of communication equipment.
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    Post  Lennox Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:26 am

    TMA1 wrote: In fact it is one thing I fear about the zircon. It would be a good first strike weapon but I worry it doesnt have the autonomy to act on it's own even with interference and/or destruction of communication equipment.

    The zircon flies at hypersonic speed. It will have a layer of plasma surrounding it, which apparently absorbs or deflects all incoming electromagnetic waves (also the reason why most deorbiting spacecraft have a communication blackout period). So in fact it will mostly be in autonomous mode rather than receiving guidance from other platforms.

    Of course, receiving guidance is still possible, just like how the space shuttle received guidance via the Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System. But it really depends on the aerodynamics of the missile or the equipment it carries (I've seen a picture that says the Zircon uses some sort of a magnet system to manipulate the plasma layer in order to receive guidance) which we have no information about.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:47 am

    The Zircon is designed to fit in current standardised launchers, their move to standardised launchers and systems suggest new missiles and weapons needing customised upgrades to use is absurd.

    The previous Calibre missiles with a range of 2,500km in the land attack models, there is no need to upgrade anything to use the 4,500km range version... the corvette launching at targets 2,500km away can't see the target any better than it could see a target 4,500km away.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:53 pm

    Isos wrote:It's not only about launchers. Maybe it needs new antennas or communucation softwares to receive orders for the use of the Tsirkon.

    Of course, but I think these are small modifications. Since they adapted the older 885 Severodvinsk to the Cirkon shooting, the more the 885M can be adapted. Anyway, it was previously written that Kazan will carry 3M22. One of the advantages of the Cirkon is its unification and the ability to fire from the USKS launcher, thanks to which many units will be able to carry this weapon. In my opinion, this article is wrong written by someone who is not very good at the topic.
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:19 pm

    The missiles were fired from good "old" Gorschkov and Severodvinsk. No modifications were mentioned anywhere.

    The fleet battle management systems is standardised for years. Even really old ships got the antennas/consoles.

    Explanation: one "well-informed" reporter got it wrong, again.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:19 am

    In practical terms the Zircon is a two stage ram jet powered missile with a first stage solid rocket propellent motor to accelerate it and climb it to altitude... and it will be very similar dimensions to the Onyx because the Onyx is the same but uses an older ramjet motor so it is rather slower than the Zircon... so different intake and aerodynamic shape and much lower flight speed, but in terms of launching it from the ship they will both be similar size and weight and launched very similarly... though the Zircon will likely have a steeper climb because it will likely operate at a much higher altitude as well as a much higher speed.

    The information either missile needs about its target will most likely be very very similar.... there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

    Onyx already had the datalink and sat comms capability of Granit and the wolf pack hunting method, but with Zircon that becomes redundant because the speed penalty of flying below the radar horizon is too high... it is much more valuable to fly at 30-40km altitude at mach 9-10 than to fly at sea level at mach 2.4 or so.
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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:41 am

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 pm

    Did the missiles explode in the launch tubes? No. The launches went flawlessly. So how can anyone with a functioning brain think that some rework/redesign of the subs is neccessary?

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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:20 pm

    Probably a more likely scenario is that the Perm would be the first boat to be fully operational with Tsirkon missiles.

    Edit: https://tass.com/defense/1356871

    Nuclear-powered sub Perm to be first regular carrier of Tsirkon hypersonic missiles

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