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    Russian Oil and Gas Industry: News #3

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:36 am

    I need to correct my post above. The lifecycle CO2 emissions for solar panels is around 50 g per kWh compared to 1000 g/kWh for
    coal. The 20 year figure is for the nominal cost of panels to pay themselves off. But that is from 20 years ago so is now cheaper.
    In any case if they last only 10 years then they are not worth the bother.

    I think there is enormous potential in solar panels... and more than that... create electromagnetic panels that absorb energy from all sorts of EM sources... from gamma waves down... they could work 24/7, and with development they can be cheaper and lighter... imagine a solar panel that is a paint that absorbs visible light as well as IR light and UV light and radio waves and sound waves and magnetic fields.... gravity waves....

    But obviously you need to be sensible and nuclear power can expand to include portable nuclear batteries etc etc and is a relatively clean renewable energy source, but all energy sources should be pursued because any free energy is useful.

    More funding for improved battery types and energy storage would be important too.

    The gas the EU buys from Russia can help pay for it.... Twisted Evil
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:42 am

    In a remote area the installation costs for solar and wind wont be much different, but the costs of getting grid power might be millions and totally not justified for a few houses or farms.

    Solar panel technology is improving and battery performance is improving too, and with more investment things will only get better... it is a technology area Russia cannot ignore because ironically solar panels are most efficient if they are kept cool... in hot countries it actually makes more sense to use a solar furnace where mirrors direct sunlight on a water tank that boils and drives a steam generator...
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:14 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    And that is where some of the money will be going
    Russian Oil and Gas Industry: News #3 - Page 36 W500_l10
    The planned Lakhta-2 centre

    Naaah, the good thing is that it won't be spent on that.
    These kinds of administrative buildings are being made with regular cash flow, and maybe some short-term investment credit, if your own capital can be more profitable than the cost of credit.
    The big deals need big bucks. That one is a bargain.
    The point is, that redirecting a third of your sell into investment is insane. Not the profit, not the net profit, but the income ...
    This ratio means an overall reconstruction. And I mean it.
    Russia is reorienting towards Asia at a full scale, in real faster than the Europeans manage to understand the process.
    That is the whole gas shit all about.
    Once they were busy with yapping on NS2, Russkies made two steps forward already.
    Turned the valve, just like that.
    If they will sell to Europe? But of course. They have the needed infrastructure.
    But the volume? And the price? Well ...

    I meant the extra money Gazprom made thanks to that b...ch talking stupid things.
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    Post  kvs Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:48 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    kvs wrote:I need to correct my post above.   The lifecycle CO2 emissions for solar panels is around 50 g per kWh compared to 1000 g/kWh for
    coal.  The 20 year figure is for the nominal cost of panels to pay themselves off.   But that is from 20 years ago so is now cheaper.
    In any case if they last only 10 years then they are not worth the bother.

    https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56487.pdf

    Nuclear power produces less than 10 g of CO2 per kWh.   Nuclear power has zero intermittency issues.


    kvs, solar and wind are here to stay, they pay off and make full sense, they just cannot be rushed beyond the current level of technology and investment capability. The West is going to fail because their leaders are idiots, not because renewables per se are a no go. For instance at a home they are fantastic, able to produce all the energy an individual uses and in many cases even the one needed to drive. You just cannot try to substitute at once all existing generation and satisfy energy intensive industries in countries with little sun, that is not specially easy and will take a lot of time to accomplish.

    Those CO2 numbers above depend on the generating mix used in the production process. PV modules have a design life of 30 years currently. The times when they did not recover the energy used in producing them are long gone.

    The storage problem has not been solved. All "green" energy requires base load support from "dirty" energy.

    Solar is BS for high latitudes. Period. Where are all those solar farms in north Africa and the middle east supplying power to Europe?

    Your claim about all solar panels being rated for 30 years is bold but not true. Some are but all are not. If I am going to find
    these over-hyped boutique systems affordable, then I am not going to pay for the best panels. At $18,000 for under $600 per
    year of power generation, they are a total joke. I will never recoup my expense since it takes longer than the maximum life
    of the panels. This is why Germany, etc, all had to massively subsidize this "green" power source and as soon as the subsidies
    are removed the installations dry up.

    Windmills make more sense for high latitudes. But as we have seen in 2021, the wind does not always deliver. This has given
    us the EU energy crisis. And the intermittency problem is always there even if the wind plays along. This is why Denmark
    dumps its intermittent wind power into the EU energy grid and buys back stable power. If green energy is here to stay then
    it is only as a boutique distraction. The racket run by Denmark and any other administrative district only works when conventional
    power is available in sufficient amounts. But supposedly it is going to be retired, which proves that such plans are delusional
    fantasy.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:19 pm

    kvs wrote:The storage problem has not been solved.   All "green" energy requires base load support from "dirty" energy.

    kvs, I don't disagree your instinct telling you there is a lot of BS going around about renewable energies and green agendas being much more about politics than about facts. But as with any other technology, the accumulation of money and effort on a field yields results, that is probably the hope of the West in terms of making something workable out of their green bet, if only because they are going to pump every amount of borrowed money they can find into it. But other countries like China and Russia are also embracing these technologies and in fact making a crucial contribution to price reduction themselves, so it is better not to dismiss the technology without a second thought.

    Having said that:

    > Storage is being worked on and the expectations for this decade are exponential growth. Prices have been on a extremely aggressive reduction trend as of late and currently both grid service stand alone storage installations and PV/wind coupled storage are proliferating at a extremely fast pace
    > The goal is to replace base load generation and synchronous machines with storage coupled power electronics of incomparably better flexibility and performance. Of course the amount of investment to achieve this is around the world would be astronomical and that is the true difficulty, not the technical capabilities of the systems themselves.

    Solar is BS for high latitudes.   Period.   Where are all those solar farms in north Africa and the middle east supplying power to Europe?

    Solar is not necessarily BS for high latitudes, but the strong seasonal variations in both demand and supply of energy places a substantial additional burden on storage, alternative generation (i.e. wind complementing PV over the winter) and transmission of energy to make up for the missing solar resource. That is why I say that it is not about the technology not being adequate, but about the amount of time that such an energy transformation needs to take place and the price reduction needed to turn it into something reasonable. Politicians have no clue about the complexities of such topics, they want their pressing issues solved for yesterday and expect their technology monkeys to pull some levers and make things happen without even having a basic understanding of the real constraints. They fail in everything and it is only normal that they fail in this field too.

    Re. transmission lines: HVDC lines are proliferating everywhere and there is no serious technical reason preventing the transport of energy from some thousands of km with relatively low losses.

    Your claim about all solar panels being rated for 30 years is bold but not true.  Some are but all are not.   If I am going to find
    these over-hyped boutique systems affordable, then I am not going to pay for the best panels.   At $18,000 for under $600 per
    year of power generation, they are a total joke.   I will never recoup my expense since it takes longer than the maximum life
    of the panels.   This is why Germany, etc, all had to massively subsidize this "green" power source and as soon as the subsidies
    are removed the installations dry up.

    Glass-glass PV modules have a design life of 30 years. The ones with their backsheet made of polymers have normally 25 years design life, the later being currently substituted by the former across the industry. Just open a PV module data sheet to see that. None of these modules are more expensive than 0.4 €/Wp. With module efficiencies above 20% (mainstream,  not boutique modules) you can have 20 kWp installed on a 100 sqm rooftop. That is some serious power and energy generation, roughly 100 kWh/day on a sunny land or the consumption of 5-10 Western average households. It does work and it produces lots of energy, no amount of Western BS agendas can turn that fact into a lie.

    https://www.pvxchange.com/price-index

    Re subsidies and so on, the industry needed to be kickstarted so it is to a certain extent unavoidable that in the beginning some money is going to be spent, this happened and happens with all energy sources, incl. conventional. I can tell you the cost of a PV system vs. cost of avoided energy bills pays off after 2-4 years in many countries, and will keep improving as commodities get more expensive and PV gets cheaper. Not to talk about the security of having your own energy production under your own control instead of depending on others, which has a big value too.

    Windmills make more sense for high latitudes.  But as we have seen in 2021, the wind does not always deliver.  This has given
    us the EU energy crisis.   And the intermittency problem is always there even if the wind plays along.   This is why Denmark
    dumps its intermittent wind power into the EU energy grid and buys back stable power.   If green energy is here to stay then
    it is only as a boutique distraction.   The racket run by Denmark and any other administrative district only works when conventional
    power is available in sufficient amounts.   But supposedly it is going to be retired, which proves that such plans are delusional
    fantasy.

    Interconnection solves most of the intermittency problems, of course it takes more money, the more oversizing in carrying capacity and the length of the transmission lines is needed. But the development of such lines is a need regardless, so it will come. A substantial help comes from local storage, which can have two main uses: energy or power  applications. The first demands much more investment, but in reality many of the actual problems of the system are related to stability. So a renewable power plant with some power reserve and the necessary control to provide frequency regulation, black start capability, primary reserve or other functions already allows to grow the penetration of such source in the mix without compromising the grid and in fact improving its reliability. Utilities themselves face significant problems related to such topics and spend an awful amount of money to solve them, they are already eyeing storage as a very attractive alternative compared to additional grid investments.

    Of course the suicidal plans of the EU of retiring conventional generation and dropping long term contracts without having properly prepared for intermittency of renewable sources are pure stupidity at work. Again, not a technical problem, but a mental one.

    In summary: the time when we can cover a good chunk of the demand with PV and wind in a reliable way will come, but it will take some time. And in the meantime, a reasonable policy is needed that allows to avoid crises like the current one in EU by ensuring hydrocarbon supply, keeping viable NPP running and so on.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:25 am

    The thing is that without funding it will not get better, but with funding their ridiculous promises today might become common sense tomorrow.

    When I was young batteries were not great and didn't last very long and most electric devices were not very efficient... today with LEDs using a fraction of the energy old bulbs did, and modern electric motors being more efficient and better all round, and of course lithium ion batteries being lighter and with more storage potential than a lead acid battery things I would never consider as a kid become rather more possible.

    When I went floundering in an estuary I took a tire inner tube blown up really big, with a wooden box with big handles dropped down in the centre... with a big heavy lead acid car battery sitting inside it. Get a pole with a car headlight on one end and cover it with waterproofing resin with wires going up through the pole with a bike handle 40cm down from the end and a U shaped bit of metal to go around your arm at the end and feed those wires to the car battery. Didn't bother with a switch... when we got into the water you immerse the car headlight in the water and then connect the wire to the terminal of the battery and shon the headlight underwater  as you walked along looking for flounder... one arm you had the light and the other had a spear with a plastic bag on top of the battery to put any fish you got...

    Couldn't even think of carrying a car battery for shooting at night... just far too heavy... but these days with a Lithium Ion battery and an LED spotlight you can put a battery on your belt about the size of a 1 litre milk container that is about 4-5kgs, and a LED spotlight on top of your riflescope...

    Back in the day the only way to go night shooting was on a four wheeler motor bike, but these days you have a lot more options because technology has improved... because of investment.

    The people getting the investment likely made all sorts of bullshit promises to get that money and might have gone bankrupt because of it but enough money went in to it to get improvements and over time and with more money the improvements will continue and it wont be a joke dead end any more.

    There are lots of directions they can go in terms of materials and ideas to improve performance or reduce cost... ignoring this technology will be a bad idea for Russia because it is a useful technology.

    Solar might not be great in winter in the far north but a 24 hour sun in summer would be useful free energy... and the wind likes to blow in those places too making it an excellent source of energy too... a wind generator is just an electric motor with something that catches the wind attached to it... and electric motor technology is improving all the time... and is an important technology to research and develop for  a wide range of uses.

    It would be very short sighted of Russia to ignore solar or wind energy, because either could be used to extract hydrogen which would be useful anyway and could be stored long term.

    Hydrogen handling and storage is another area they are most likely working on too.

    It is green but it can also be sold for good money around the world... people in the Pacific would love to use solar panels instead of diesel generators....
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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:27 pm



    Gazprom will pay $47 billion into the federal budget of Russia in 2021.

    Apparently the 5th column in Russia is trying to spread the lie that Gazprom is selling gas to speculators for low prices and they
    are making a killing. Retards. Thanks to all the efforts of EU-tardia, the spot price is a component of contract pricing. lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:37 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Gazprom will pay $47 billion into the federal budget of Russia in 2021.

    How to give back a change from a $50bln note? Laughing

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    Post  George1 Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 pm

    Second string of Nord Stream 2 to have operating pressure this year — Gazprom

    https://tass.com/economy/1380153


    Gazprom's gas exports to non-CIS countries will reach record values in 2021

    https://tass.com/economy/1380211


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    Post  George1 Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 pm

    Zarubezhneft plans to develop gas projects in Southeast Asia, the Middle East


    "As for the development of the CIS cluster, the company sees Kazakhstan as the most promising market," Head of Business Development at the company Boris Vorontsov said


    MOSCOW, December 23. /TASS/. Zarubezhneft is considering developing gas projects in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa, Head of Business Development at the company Boris Vorontsov said in an interview with the corporate magazine.

    "The company is considering the development of projects in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa," he said.

    Creating a gas cluster in Algeria could become the upcoming project, Vorontsov emphasized. "State-owned company Sonatrach is our partner in these negotiations, we are jointly planning the implementation of a major gas project in the country together," he added.

    In the Middle East, Zarubezhneft is looking for new assets in Egypt, Kurdistan, and Oman. In addition, the company is considering entering projects in Pakistan. In Southeast Asia, Zarubezhneft is looking at additional projects in Vietnam, Indonesia, as well as other countries of the region, Vorontsov continued.

    "As for the development of the CIS cluster, the company sees Kazakhstan as the most promising market," he said.

    https://tass.com/economy/1380233

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    Post  owais.usmani Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:05 pm

    https://thealtworld.com/pepe_escobar/exit-nord-stream-2-enter-power-of-siberia-2

    Exit Nord Stream 2, Enter Power of Siberia 2

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:41 am

    owais.usmani wrote:https://thealtworld.com/pepe_escobar/exit-nord-stream-2-enter-power-of-siberia-2

    Exit Nord Stream 2, Enter Power of Siberia 2





    From the article:

    In fact, whether U.S. and NATO functionaries like it or not, what’s really happening in the realpolitk realm is Russia dictating new terms from a position of power. In a nutshell: you may learn the new game in town in a peaceful manner, civilized dialogue included, or you will learn the hard way via a dialogue with Mr. Iskandr, Mr. Kalibr, Mr. Khinzal and Mr. Zircon.

    Mr Yars, Mr Bulava, Mr Sarmat, Mr Avangard and Mr Poseidon aren't nominally required in the "negotiations" but they will be available in short order should NATOstani actions require their services.

    Pepe gets it Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:42 am

    @owais.usmani... what an excellent article... thank you again for posting...

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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:06 pm

    The Power of Siberia 2 pipeline itself is only a small part of investments in Siberia.  If Russia wants to build a new, new metropolis in Siberia, it must invest huge amounts of money in reindustralizing Siberia.  It will probably happen on a larger scale than in the times of the USSR.Somehow they have to encourage people to settle in those regions. As the climate warms up, many regions of Siberia will become more and more attractive to live in.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:11 pm

    Arrow wrote:The Power of Siberia 2 pipeline itself is only a small part of investments in Siberia.  If Russia wants to build a new, new metropolis in Siberia, it must invest huge amounts of money in reindustralizing Siberia.  It will probably happen on a larger scale than in the times of the USSR.Somehow they have to encourage people to settle in those regions. As the climate warms up, many regions of Siberia will become more and more attractive to live in.

    I don't know what the point of building a new, new metropolis would be

    We already have cities of significant potential in Siberia, that can compete for the title and attract immigration

    Among them - Novosibirsk, Omsk and Krasnoyarsk
    And then other cities with populations that can potentially reach a million - Tyumen and Irkutsk

    Krasnoyarsk and Tyumen are the fastest growing
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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:18 pm


    Shoigu talked about it.It's a pretty crazy plan. I think it is about building new industrial centers

    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/industry-and-energy/2021/09/sergei-shoigu-has-grand-masterplan-siberia-it-will-move-russia-towards
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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:34 pm

    Point of the new cities is that they will be close to newly discovered deposits of metals/oil/gas and so on or along newly planned roads/railways.
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:10 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Arrow wrote:The Power of Siberia 2 pipeline itself is only a small part of investments in Siberia.  If Russia wants to build a new, new metropolis in Siberia, it must invest huge amounts of money in reindustralizing Siberia.  It will probably happen on a larger scale than in the times of the USSR.Somehow they have to encourage people to settle in those regions. As the climate warms up, many regions of Siberia will become more and more attractive to live in.

    I don't know what the point of building a new, new metropolis would be

    We already have cities of significant potential in Siberia, that can compete for the title and attract immigration

    Among them - Novosibirsk, Omsk and Krasnoyarsk
    And then other cities with populations that can potentially reach a million - Tyumen and Irkutsk

    Krasnoyarsk and Tyumen are the fastest growing

    As I said earlier, my guess is they will just build hubs that connect to these other cities. Or just expand these cities altogether.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:13 pm

    Hole wrote:Point of the new cities is that they will be close to newly discovered deposits of metals/oil/gas and so on or along newly planned roads/railways.

    I think it's more important that we develop or revive our existing cities, especially the ones with collapsed industries or economic models. Some of them probably have to be closed down and evacuated, but there tends to be enough around to exploit or find a new economic venue for in most cases.

    Because economic value is gradually moving away from industrial production and resources, towards intellectual potential & services.
    Every city has potential in this regard, and the higher the population the greater the potential here.

    Of course it's still possible to win big on extracting natural resources and introducing new extraction and power generation technologies. However this doesn't require whole new cities. It's enough to construct small towns for specialists in the field of ~30,000 people or so next to the deposits, with modern infrastructure but with a temporary type of construction.
    Or just create worker's settlements that would house the workers for 1-2 week shifts, while their families live in the nearest existing city nearby. That's often how it works at the moment.

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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:16 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:https://thealtworld.com/pepe_escobar/exit-nord-stream-2-enter-power-of-siberia-2

    Exit Nord Stream 2, Enter Power of Siberia 2






    From the article:

    In fact, whether U.S. and NATO functionaries like it or not, what’s really happening in the realpolitk realm is Russia dictating new terms from a position of power. In a nutshell: you may learn the new game in town in a peaceful manner, civilized dialogue included, or you will learn the hard way via a dialogue with Mr. Iskandr, Mr. Kalibr, Mr. Khinzal and Mr. Zircon.

    Mr Yars, Mr Bulava, Mr Sarmat, Mr Avangard and Mr Poseidon aren't nominally required in the "negotiations" but they will be available in short order should NATOstani actions require their services.

    Pepe gets it Laughing

    Don´t forget Mr. T Very Happy

    Russian Oil and Gas Industry: News #3 - Page 36 T-72b310

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:32 am

    Arrow wrote:
    Shoigu talked about it.It's a pretty crazy plan. I think it is about building new industrial centers

    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/industry-and-energy/2021/09/sergei-shoigu-has-grand-masterplan-siberia-it-will-move-russia-towards

    If they plan to just build cities at random then it's definitely crazy (and stupid) plan

    You need to give people the reason to settle somewhere, in this case it's industry

    Cities come later

    I'm sure they know this already but they should still start with announcing industry first and cities afterwards


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:48 am

    They obviously won't start from plain earth in most of the cases but will use existing small towns or villages and environmental values.
    What they target, is a 300-500k center of industry, spread among Siberia to assist the rebuilding of the infrastructure there.
    If you would listen to what Shoigu was saying, he is addressing creating target industry hubs for nickel, copper, etc, linked with the extending railway and other living infrastructure to satisfy the needs of a population.
    Some of the locations are already revealed.

    Edit : found this one.
    https://tass.com/society/1333477
    Sputnik city, located nearby Vlad, in order to create another "milionnik" zone combined with Artiom.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:14 am

    The next question of course is where we will get all these new people from
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:18 am

    Migration throughout the country mixed with probably Ukies who fled (over a million are still not citizens of russia).

    I read how in the future, cities may start to depopulate as people look to move back to countryside as cities are overcrowding and getting expensive too. So
    The Russian government is looking to kinda help that.

    Trouble is convincing people. Guess best way is money mixed with "hey look, it's new and fancy".
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    Post  ALAMO Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:24 am

    flamming_python wrote:The next question of course is where we will get all these new people from

    That is not so much complicated, you are making it via economical means.
    SU was actively pushing for East, and one of the gains was additional payment you could get.
    As long as you live in a stable country and predictable economy, lots of people would apply.
    Imagine living in Moscow, able to pay the credit for 30m2 app, while just for the same money you can get a 100m2 fresh new flat in a well developed city zone.
    With stable jobs, great environmental assets, good connection etc.
    That is one of the phenomena of Kazan - the fastest developing city in Russia if I remember. Good infrastructure, climate, great location. They have gained 200k inhabitants in less than a decade.
    I have witnessed just the same process, as Russian troops left Poland in 1993, leaving behind infrastructure. It was sucked for other purposes immediately.

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