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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:14 pm

    I have never understood why one would not have a mussle break. You don't really lose any range and you reduce recoil....plus you produce a less definite sound signature.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:05 am

    Their old 57mm, 76.2mm, 100mm, and 130mm guns didn't have muzzle brakes... most had automated muzzle covers to keep the salt air out of the barrels one assumes, but no muzzle brakes.

    I guess with the smaller lighter gun mounts with increased energy longer ranged shells a muzzle brake has become a more useful thing...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:03 pm

    It seems Gorshkov was send to test Zirkon missiles.

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 16 Ej51f510

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 16 Ej51f511
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm


    Bigly if true

    What makes you think those are Zircons?

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Bigly if true

    What makes you think those are Zircons?


    It's on twitter. Idk if it is official though.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1197556525042208775

    There are russian twitts also but I don't read russian.
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    Post  Arrow Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:24 am

    Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:44 am

    Arrow wrote:Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.


    lol1 lol1 in terms of stupidity on this forum you get the 1st place.
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    kumbor

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    Post  kumbor Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:28 pm

    Isos wrote:It seems Gorshkov was send to test Zirkon missiles.

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 16 Ej51f510

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 16 Ej51f511

    I think these are simply torpedoes  without warheads.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:50 pm

    Gorshkov carries only paket nk torpedoes which are smaller than that. Those things seems to be missiles in their canisters and they occupy all the lenght if the helicopter pad so ~10m long.
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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:53 pm

    But if Gorskov is leaving to test zirkon, why would they be lying out in open on the deck instead of inside the UKSK VLS?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:29 pm

    They could be reloads which will be put in the VLS by a ship that has a cane. Or they can't use them from UKSK and plan to use them from the back by elevating those two canister and use Gorshkovs computers to program the missiles.

    There is still nothing official.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:23 pm

    Arrow wrote:Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.

    Russia plans new trials of Tsirkon hypersonic missile before yearend — source

    MOSCOW, November 22. /TASS/ Laughing Laughing

    https://tass.com/defense/1091759
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    Post  Arrow Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:38 pm

    It has been known for a year that Cirkon will be tested at the end of 2019. Where's the news here? Let them finally show this missile, it will be something new or a test movie.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:01 pm

    Arrow wrote:It has been known for a year that Cirkon will be tested at the end of 2019. Where's the news here? Let them finally show this missile, it will be something new or a test movie.
    in Russian it is циркон, you can transliterate the ц as either z or ts and the pronounce is something like [ts], so could you please use one of the following two spellings: Tsirkon or Zircon?

    The one you use looks like a mockery, but I am sure it was incidental.
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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:06 am

    Its certainly interesting timing to see canisters on the deck at a time when press are saying Zirkon is about to be tested.
    But doesn't make much sense that they are on the heli-deck if its UKSK compatible?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:25 am

    Carrying the tubes there is interesting, because it would mean they can't use their helo... so why are they displaying these tubes?

    The test launch is supposed to be from a test platform rather than a ship, so maybe they are just transporting the missiles as a show for the public knowing there are plenty of eyes and cameras following their every move anyway to get a glimpse of this new system...
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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:53 pm

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 16 016411
    For comparison: Kaliber missiles in their transport canisters
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    Post  dino00 Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 pm

    The frigate Admiral Gorshkov arrived at the White Sea naval base of the Northern Fleet to test new types of weapons

    Today, the head frigate of project 22350 “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov” arrived in the White Sea naval base of the Northern Fleet. In the near future, in Severodvinsk, the ship will undergo preparation for testing new types of weapons and will go to the White Sea to conduct test firing.

    The ship’s interbase transition took place under favorable hydrometeorological conditions. While sailing in the Barents and White Seas, the frigate’s crew worked out the organization of marching watch and conducted exercises to combat the survivability of the ship on the move.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12263420@egNews

    Russian MOD
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:29 pm

    The draft design of "Super-Gorshkov" is completed

    The designers of the Northern Design Bureau completed the preliminary design of the ship of Project 22350M, an enlarged version of the frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type. About this Mil.Press FlotProm was informed by an informed industry source.The work was completed on time, a preliminary design was prepared by the end of autumn, he added.

    According to the interlocutor of the publication, the next stage is the acceptance of work by the relevant commission. This will happen before the end of the year, the source added.

    Mil.Press FlotProm does not yet have official confirmation of this information.

    It takes 12 to 18 months to complete the design of the frigate for Project 22350M, nicknamed "Super-Pots" in the industry. The construction of the lead ship of the new series will take 4-5 years.

    Given the timing of the development of design documentation, the construction can begin no earlier than 2020.

    According to a senior naval source of the publication, November 19 at the Academy of the General Staff passedscientific and practical conference of the Navy, which once again raised the question of a critical reduction in the number of ships in the ocean zone. "In this sense, the continued construction of both Admiral Gorshkov-type frigates and larger Project 22350M ships is vital for maintaining the presence of the Russian Navy in the far sea and especially ocean zones," said Mil.Press FlotProm interlocutor.

    More
    https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BA31/
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:06 pm

    dino00 wrote:The draft design of "Super-Gorshkov" is completed
    .............
    It takes 12 to 18 months to complete the design of the frigate for Project 22350M, nicknamed "Super-Pots" in the industry. The construction of the lead ship of the new series will take 4-5 years...........

    lol1

    Another jewel of machine translation: Super Pots (Super Gorshkov)

    But it will not dethrone the best one so far: Great Onions (Veliki Luki)



    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    dino00 wrote:The draft design of "Super-Gorshkov" is completed
    .............
    It takes 12 to 18 months to complete the design of the frigate for Project 22350M, nicknamed "Super-Pots" in the industry. The construction of the lead ship of the new series will take 4-5 years...........

    lol1

    Another jewel of machine translation: Super Pots (Super Gorshkov)

    But it will not dethrone the best one so far: Great Onions (Veliki Luki)




    I didn't corrected because I thought was a new nickname that I never heard lol1

    Pack yes is good also.

    But it's incredible that we can understand Russians newspapers, without doing anything, the page automatically converts to English. Better than going to the Moon.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:31 pm

    So that means that design should be completed by mid 2021, and by end 2026 or mid 2027 the acceptance tests of the lead ship could start.

    This is consistent with what was announced earlier this year

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6415468


    MOSCOW, May 9. / TASS /. Russia plans to build 12 modernized project 22350M frigates, each of which will carry on board up to 48 Caliber, Onyx and Zircon cruise missiles.

    "The lead ship in the series is planned to be handed over to the Navy in 2027," a source in the shipbuilding industry told TASS on Thursday.
    According to him, "by the end of 2019, a technical project for a ship with a displacement of 7 thousand tons should be developed, capable of carrying up to 48 strike missiles" Caliber "," Onyx "and" Zircon "." In total, it is planned to build 12 such frigates, 11 of which will be handed over to the customer within the framework of the new state armament program, "the agency’s interlocutor said.
    He added that the new frigates will also be equipped with the Poliment-Redut anti-aircraft missile system with an ammunition load of up to 100 missiles, anti-submarine and torpedo weapons. (...)



    In the meanwhile it would be worth to continue producing the "classic" 22350, maybe also in Yantar in Kaliningrad, that in the 80s built most of the 1155 Fregat (Udaloy class) destroyers and more recently the 11356 Grigorovich class frigates, and possibly also in Zvezda in the Far East, so that they get used to military shipbuilding before thinking about bigger ships (e.g destroyers, cruisers and aircraft carriers).
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:40 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:........
    In the meanwhile it would be worth to continue producing the "classic" 22350, maybe also in Yantar in Kaliningrad, that in the 80s built most of the 1155 Fregat (Udaloy class) destroyers and more recently the 11356 Grigorovich class frigates, and possibly also in Zvezda in the Far East, so that they get used to military shipbuilding before thinking about bigger ships (e.g destroyers, cruisers and aircraft carriers).


    Vanilla Gorshkov absolutely must remain in production

    Not only is it excellent ship that finally does the job that allows it to replace old Soviet frigates and destroyers but they finally managed to get production speed up to usable levels

    This is the ship that is to be backbone of the fleet according to new doctrine, old doctrine mandated corvettes to do that job but times have changed

    Missile ships and frigates are the new norm, corvettes are now niche segment


    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:06 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:........
    In the meanwhile it would be worth to continue producing the "classic" 22350, maybe also in Yantar in Kaliningrad, that in the 80s built most of the 1155 Fregat (Udaloy class) destroyers and more recently the 11356 Grigorovich class frigates, and possibly also in Zvezda in the Far East, so that they get used to military shipbuilding before thinking about bigger ships (e.g destroyers, cruisers and aircraft carriers).


    Vanilla Gorshkov absolutely must remain in production

    Not only is it excellent ship that finally does the job that allows it to replace old Soviet frigates and destroyers but they finally managed to get production speed up to usable levels

    This is the ship that is to be backbone of the fleet according to new doctrine, old doctrine mandated corvettes to do that job but times have changed

    Missile ships and frigates are the new norm, corvettes are now niche segment


    new Russian corvettes are quite capable ships, even if lacking in range and endurance, and are useful in brown and green water operations. As I said before I see a waste if Severnaya Verf continues to produce them, as they could use their resources to build additional frigates.

    Until now it was convenient for them to produce large corvettes 20380, since Saturn and Zvezda Motor had not yet mastered the production of gas turbines and reduction gears for the 22350, but now any new additional order for ship shorter than 110m should go to other shipyards, like Pella, as an example.

    Concerning the ammunition load up to 100 missiles for the poliment result system in 22350M it may mean 48 redut VLS cells (instead of 32 in 22350), that could be loaded normally with 32 cells containing long and medium range missiles, and the last 16 with 4 packed short rang e missiles, for a total of 32 +64=96missiles in the typical load (but this is just a speculation from me).

    I hope they carry also a couple of naval pantsir, it could be quite useful to have two independent short to medium range systems that use different radars and sensors (but that are integrated and may share target data it needed).
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:23 am

    Concerning the ammunition load up to 100 missiles for the poliment result system in 22350M it may mean 48 redut VLS cells (instead of 32 in 22350), that could be loaded normally with 32 cells containing long and medium range missiles, and the last 16 with 4 packed short rang e missiles, for a total of 32 +64=96missiles in the typical load (but this is just a speculation from me).

    I disagree. Gorshkov M is a destroyer of some 150-160m (the size of Arleigh burkes) so it may easily carry 96 cells (they come in 8 cells VLS so 100 is not possible) just like other modern destroyers.

    Gorshkov is only 130m and carries 48 cells.

    The only question is will those be a mix of redut and UKSK or just UKSK-M ? The later makes the ships much more powerful and useful and could 8 pack 9M100 and 4 pack 9M96 or carry 48N6 family that normal UKSK can't carry and is limited to only one 9m96.

    With 96 UKSK-M they can have max 384 9m96 or 96 cruise missiles. In reality it would be something like 24 cruise missile/anti ship missiles, 24 48N6, 48 4×9M96.

    9M100 is not needed if they have pantsirs.

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