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    Politics and Government of Russia

    Russian Patriot
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    Post  Russian Patriot Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:21 am

    Kudrin to lose all government posts - Kremlin aide

    RIA Novosti

    13:58 11/10/2011

    MOSCOW, October 11 (RIA Novosti) - Alexei Kudrin, former Russian deputy prime minister and finance minister, will lose all the seats on bodies and organizations he held in his capacity as a Russian government official, presidential aide Arkady Dvorkovich said on Tuesday.

    “Alexei Kudrin will leave the Council on Financial Markets and the National Banking Council, as well as other structures, including international structures, where he represented Russian interests,” Dvorkovich said.

    “These positions are to be filled by government officials currently in service.”

    Kudrin, who had headed Russia’s Finance Ministry since 2000, was dismissed on September 26 after a public standoff with President Dmitry Medvedev.

    Kudrin was also dismissed from the government commission on budget projects, regional development and high technologies and innovations, as well as working groups on modernization and development of the military-industrial complex.

    On September 25, Kudrin said that he would not serve in a new government under Medvedev, who is expected to be appointed prime minister after presidential elections in 2012. The Russian president told Kudrin he should resign if he did not agree with presidential policy.

    Kudrin said that before taking a decision, he would consult Putin. Later, it was announced that the president had issued a decree dismissing him as deputy prime minister and finance minister.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-111011-rianovosti01.htm
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    Pervius


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    Post  Pervius Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:20 pm

    I have a feeling Kudrin is not Jewish.

    For such a position you need a Jewish person. Someone able to scheme schemes on a higher level to generate revenue.


    Look at America. They kill their own to make money. They bring in foreign Engineers and workers to make things hyper cheap. They allowed foreign countries to buy things and run things to free up the real money to build things. Chaos economics....Advisors brought on...money made from nothing.


    Look at the plastic spine spacer debacle. They were making plastic blocks, came out with this "new" procedure to go through patients sides and yank out their spine discs, hammer in the plastic spacer and sew them up. Never bolted the vertebrae together. Everyone made FAST money...nobody cared it crippled or killed people.

    The "Greater Good" means....you gotta maim/kill your own. Then advertise it as a success as you hush hush the failures and run the procedure overseas to make profit. American Military Medical funded entire US military this way. Plus look, don't have to pay retirements to dead people...Woo Hoo! Federal money saved! Plus all hidden under "healthcare"....perception of care...but in reality you were making money off of anything but that.

    Russia cares for its people too much. Look at Obama, bringing in +1 million foreigners every year to bring in new suckers to replace the ones he's killed.

    Jewish Economics. See why Germans hated them so? """Gods Chosen""" have no qualms with murder and maiming if it makes money. Just what a military needs today to generate revenue..reduce liability.


    Look at the US putting Testosterone Cream on old retired military/veterans....Federal Military Clinical Trial found it killed most of the old men......(but they're still doing it!)
    Russian Patriot
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    Post  Russian Patriot Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:00 am

    Pervius wrote:I have a feeling Kudrin is not Jewish.

    For such a position you need a Jewish person. Someone able to scheme schemes on a higher level to generate revenue.


    Look at America. They kill their own to make money. They bring in foreign Engineers and workers to make things hyper cheap. They allowed foreign countries to buy things and run things to free up the real money to build things. Chaos economics....Advisors brought on...money made from nothing.


    Look at the plastic spine spacer debacle. They were making plastic blocks, came out with this "new" procedure to go through patients sides and yank out their spine discs, hammer in the plastic spacer and sew them up. Never bolted the vertebrae together. Everyone made FAST money...nobody cared it crippled or killed people.

    The "Greater Good" means....you gotta maim/kill your own. Then advertise it as a success as you hush hush the failures and run the procedure overseas to make profit. American Military Medical funded entire US military this way. Plus look, don't have to pay retirements to dead people...Woo Hoo! Federal money saved! Plus all hidden under "healthcare"....perception of care...but in reality you were making money off of anything but that.

    Russia cares for its people too much. Look at Obama, bringing in +1 million foreigners every year to bring in new suckers to replace the ones he's killed.

    Jewish Economics. See why Germans hated them so? """Gods Chosen""" have no qualms with murder and maiming if it makes money. Just what a military needs today to generate revenue..reduce liability.


    Look at the US putting Testosterone Cream on old retired military/veterans....Federal Military Clinical Trial found it killed most of the old men......(but they're still doing it!)


    Pervius, can you stop your Jewish Hating! Consider this your first and final warning.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:22 am

    Jewish or not, it doesn't retract from the fact that he was hostile towards the military (extreme penny pinching). I'm glad he was kicked out.
    Russian Patriot
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    Politics and Government of Russia - Page 2 Empty Oppostion protests elections

    Post  Russian Patriot Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:09 pm

    Opposition protest elections results:


    Sorry in Russian but Алексея Навального calls Putin a thief and immediately police come and arrest him.



    the arrest itself:


    also more In Russian : http://cifidiol.livejournal.com/1600.html
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:49 am

    The amusing thing is that the Whitehouse has come out in support of the right to protest for all citizens... except perhaps their own...



    U.S. says will continue support for peaceful protests, including in Russia

    The United States will continue to support the rights of citizens for peaceful protests everywhere in the world, including Russia, a Department of State deputy spokesperson said.

    "And again, I think as we've said before, we would obviously support the rights of anyone to peaceful protest - emphasis on peaceful - anywhere in the world. And - well, Russia's no different," Deputy Spokesperson Mark Toner said.

    According to official reports at least 300 people were detained when a crowd of some 5,000 rallied in central Moscow on Monday against alleged poll violations at Sunday's parliamentary elections.

    "We have seen that hundreds were arrested, and there is apparently a prominent blogger who remains in detention," the deputy spokesperson said. "We've expressed our concerns about the treatment of all those being arrested who were exercising their rights to peaceful protest."

    Toner said that U.S. official, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have already delivered their remarks on the issue.

    "Secretary Clinton was very clear about raising some of the concerns with the conduct of the recent elections," the State Department deputy spokesperson said. "She said that Russian voters deserve, I think, a full investigation of electoral fraud and manipulation."

    He also called on Russia to follow recommendations of international observers, including an OSCE report which is to be finalized in the coming weeks.

    "We look to the Russian Government to address some of those recommendations, as we believe it's incumbent on any government to ensure a democratic, free, and transparent process for its people," the U.S. official said.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday comments by senior White House officials about Russian parliamentary elections were "unacceptable," including Clinton's statements that Sunday's polls in Russia were neither free nor fair.

    "Comments by the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton about the Russian parliamentary elections, as well as those of other representatives of the White House and the U.S. Department of State are unacceptable," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.

    International observers from the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe noted that the election preparations were technically "well-administered across a vast territory," but marked by "flagrant procedural violations," including cases of ballot-stuffing, "a convergence of the state and the governing party," limited political competition and a lack of fairness.

    President Dmitry Medvedev declared Sunday's elections free and democratic but ordered an investigation into the alleged violations.

    http://en.rian.ru/world/20111208/169471934.html

    To be honest, in a country of over 100 million people having 5 thousand people protest is a joke and if you changed the way you did things based on their opinions you would no longer have a democracy.

    When it came time to decide to go to war the US and UK ignored the opinions of a majority of their people and went anyway, but here they demand Russia listen to a tiny rowdy mob mostly funded by foreign countries... clearly for the benefit of those countries.

    I suspect a few might be genuine protestors wanting Russia to get things right and not cut corners, but the organisers and main protagonists will be financially and materially supported by foreign governments via non government organisations... and that is what the FSB should be investigating.

    It is amusing to see the US talk about democracy with their rhetoric about your are either with us or you are with the terrorists... that is what democracy is about isn't it? Doing what you are told to do by the US straight away without thinking about it for yourself. That is why Iran is evil and Saudi Arabia is an ally.
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    lulldapull


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    Post  lulldapull Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 pm

    The evidence mounts that these bastards out in Moscow protesting Putin are bought and paid for shit heads.

    Friday, December 9, 2011
    Wall Street Vs. Russia
    Wall Street's poorly hidden, poorly coordinated agenda in Russia. Who is behind it?
    by Tony Cartalucci

    1. Wall Street-London's Defense Team for Jailed Russian Oligarch Khodorkovsky

    The background of jailed Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky and his "Open Russian Foundation" fashioned after George Soros' Open Society Institute and chaired by both Jacob Rothschild and Henry Kissinger, can be found in William Engdahl's, "The Real Crime of M. Khodorkovsky," as well as in the London Telegraph's humorously titled, "This man is now the people's billionaire," reflecting the paid-for rhetoric of Khodorkovsky's Wall Street-London-appointed lawyer Robert Amsterdam.

    In the latest round of attempted destabilization in Russia, it may be instructive to look at the "Khodorkovsky & Lebedev Communications Center," a website developed in part by Robert Amsterdam and what is called an "international legal team." Coincidentally, it fully embraces the narrative peddled by the West and its corporate media that the Russian elections were "rigged." However, this accusation tenuously hinges on the work of US-funded NGOs including Golos - fully funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

    Just as Robert Amsterdam is doing in Thailand, where he is using his "defense" of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as a point of leverage to in fact induce regime change in the Southeast Asian country, his defense of Khodorkovsky also aims not at defending his client legally, but at using his case to undermine and ultimately overturn the leadership of Russia. It is done in a concerted effort with the US State Department, the corporate media, and a vast network of US and European subsidized NGOs sowing sedition within Russia itself.

    khodorkovskycenter.com

    2. Neo-Conservatives Attempting to Encircle Russia with NATO

    The Neo-Conservative Foreign Policy Initiative, whose membership has helped engineer and promote every war in at least the last 30 years of American history, clearly enumerates what it believes the next steps the US should take toward Russia should be. These include continuing the encirclement of Russia with NATO and its controversial "missile defense" efforts, continuing to build up the Republic of Georgia as a menacing proxy-threat lying on Russia's borders, and "supporting human rights" focusing on the "Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2011" which seeks yet again to sanction members of the Russian government based on disingenuous "human rights" concerns, just as the FPI and its collaborators did in Libya.

    Foreign Policy Initiative's Board of Directors
    FPI Analysis: Moving Beyond the U.S.-Russian “Reset”

    3. The Henry Jackson Foundation, NED, Alexey Navalny, & Ilya Yashin

    We'll keep hearing the name Alexey Navalny until the fact that he is fully subsidized by the US State Department through the National Endowment of Democracy is widely exposed, and like Egypt's Mohamed ElBaradei, cast aside as extra-baggage.

    The first clue comes to us from the London, Telegraph who afforded column space to a Mr. Michael Weiss of the Henry Jackson Society, providing a very robust defense for Navalny and his efforts to expose "corruption" during Russia's election. And while Weiss does his best to fend off accusations that Navalny is indeed a foreign agent, calling such accusations "adorably old-fashioned," he fails to point out that, again, the NGOs and poll monitors accusing Russia of rigging the elections, and whom "activists" like Navalny continuously cite as evidence, are all funded by the very US and European governments conducting the NATO military encirclement of Russia.

    The background of Weiss' Henry Jackson Foundation should surprise no one. It's corporate-sponsors include (page 18) Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, IBM, General Dynamics, State Farm, and Xerox, while "signatories" of its "statement of principles" include current and former members of the British Government, members of the corporate-financier sponsored Chatham House, and professors throughout British academia.

    International patrons include Neo-Con Max Boot - Michael Chertoff - Carl Gershman president of NED - Israeli Ambassador Dore Gold - FPI, Brookings Institution, and PNAC signatory Robert Kagan - Max Kampelman, also a PNAC signatory - Neo-Con William Kristol of the above mentioned FPI and also a PNAC signatory - Clifford May of the Neo-Con Foundations for the Defense of Democracies (FDD) - Neo-Con Richard Perle - former-NATO commander General Jack Sheehan - and Neo-Con warmonger James Woolsey, formally of the CIA and a leading proponent for war with Iran.

    One must be forgiven for doubting the genuine resolve of the Henry Jackson Foundation's commitment toward human rights and democracy, since those they associate with have single-handledly done more to exterminate such ideals from our collective human conscience than any other group of villains combined. Their association with Carl Gershman, president of NED who is on record funding NGOs like Golos in Russia, not only write off any legitimacy they portray themselves as having, but also begin to cast serious suspicion on Alexey Navalny whom they are so vigorously defending.

    And while Alexey Navalny is renowned for "exposing corruption," at least when profitable, those researching his background begin unraveling his own insidious, compromised agenda. Alexey Navalny was a Yale World Fellow, and in his profile it states:


    "Navalny spearheads legal challenges on behalf of minority shareholders in large Russian companies, including Gazprom, Bank VTB, Sberbank, Rosneft, Transneft, and Surgutneftegaz, through the Union of Minority Shareholders. He has successfully forced companies to disclose more information to their shareholders and has sued individual managers at several major corporations for allegedly corrupt practices. Navalny is also co-founder of the Democratic Alternative movement and was vice-chairman of the Moscow branch of the political party YABLOKO. In 2010, he launched RosPil, a public project funded by unprecedented fundraising in Russia. In 2011, Navalny started RosYama, which combats fraud in the road construction sector."

    The Democratic Alternative, also written DA!, is indeed a National Endowment for Democracy fund recipient, meaning that Alexey Navalny is an agent of US-funded sedition and willfully hiding it from his followers. The US State Department itself reveals this as they list "youth movements" operating in Russia:

    "DA!: Mariya Gaydar, daughter of former Prime Minister Yegor Gaydar, leads DA! (Democratic Alternative). She is ardent in her promotion of democracy, but realistic about the obstacles she faces. Gaydar said that DA! is focused on non-partisan activities designed to raise political awareness. She has received funding from the National Endowment for Democracy, a fact she does not publicize for fear of appearing compromised by an American connection."


    Alexey was involved directly in founding a movement funded by the US government and to this day has the very people who funded DA! defending him throughout Western media. The mention of co-founder Mariya Gaydar is also revealing, as she has long collaborated, and occasionally has been arrested with, Ilya Yashin, yet another leader of a NED-funded Russian "activist" opposition group.

    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57163000/jpg/_57163773_013466994-2.jpg

    Photo: Alexei Navalny, Yale World Fellow and co-founder of US National Endowment for Democracy Da! or "Democratic Alternative/Yes in Russian." It is yet another Otpor-esque organization courtesy of the United States government and willful traitors to their motherland.
    ....

    Ilya Yashin leads the Moscow branch of the People's Freedom Party and is a leading member of the "Strategy 31" campaign, which claims to be fighting for the freedom of assembly. Unfortunately, Strategy 31's ranks are filled with activists trained and coordinated by US NED-funded NGOs. From the official NED.org website we find:

    "Moscow Group of Assistance in the Implementation of the Helsinki Accords $50,000
    To draw greater attention to the issue of freedom of assembly in Russia and to the “Strategy 31” movement, which seeks to protect this fundamental right. The organization will train a network of regional activists and coordinate their activities through mini-seminars and field visits, and conduct an information cam­paign through press conferences, posters, and educational handouts pertaining to freedom of assembly, to be distributed to the general public by regional partners."

    This is also confirmed in NED's "Democracy Digest" where the "Moscow Helsinki Group" is explicitly stated as leading Strategy 31 marches and that the group is a "long-time grantee of the National Endowment of Democracy."

    Worst yet, Yashin's People's Freedom Party is lined not with aspiring youth seeking "freedom" for the Russian people, but rather lined with career politicians and businessmen collaborating with foreign-interests. Among them is Vladimir Ryzhkov, a member of the NED-funded, Washington-based World Movement for Democracy. There is also Boris Nemtsov whose adviser, Vladimir Kara-Murza (of Solidarnost) recently took part in a September 14, 2011 NED-sponsored event titled, "Elections in Russia: Polling and Perspectives" where they used a NED-funded polling organization, the "Levada Center," to project "winners" in upcoming elections and study the Manezh riots of 2010 - for now obvious reasons as the US attempts to fan the flames of unrest across Russia.

    World Movement for Democracy, About Us
    Vladimir Ryzhkov's World Movement for Democracy Profile


    4. Freedom House

    Rounding off the list is Freedom House, a US government-funded subsidiary of the National Endowment for Democracy. President of Freedom House, David Kramer, a minion under the Bush administration, recently wrote "Now Hear This, Moscow."

    In his piece he notes that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton "unambiguously stood with those who protested against Vladimir Putin and his party of power, United Russia, both in the voting booth and on the streets of Moscow on Monday and Tuesday." Between Kramer's Freedom House, NED who clearly has funded and supported, if not entirely created the current Russian opposition, and indeed Clinton's "unambiguous" stand with the mobs in the streets, it is very easy to see why Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accused the US of interfering in Russia's sovereign internal affairs.

    Kramer would go on by citing the Organization for Security and Cooperation OSCE poll monitors - funded by various nations, UN funds, and strangely enough Soros' Open Society, Statoil, and USAID (page 125) - and his "concerns" over the alleged harassment of US NED-funded Golos. As usual, faux-human rights crusaders like Kramer who intentionally destabilize nations and foment unrest, then claim any measure taken by the targeted nation to defend itself is an abuse of "human rights" and "freedom," an all too familiar narrative that has played out from Tunisia to Thailand, from Syria to Myanmar.

    Another Freedom House statement, provided on their own website, again calls for the "Sergei Magnitsky Act" are made to leverage their false claims of human rights abuses to sanction and begin bringing down Russia's leadership. The statement is signed off not by noted humanitarians, but by notorious Neo-Cons Eric Edelman, Jamie Fly, Robert Kagan, Kramer himself, and Stephen Rademaker, a corporate lobbyist at the notorious Podesta Group and a "foreign policy adviser" for Mitt Romney.

    Conclusion

    It is quite clear that the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House, the Foreign Policy Initiative, and even the US State Department whose new foreign affairs advisory board is full of think-tanks representing overt corporate-financier interests, are not interested in "democracy," "human rights," or "freedom" in Russia, but rather removing the Kremlin out of the way, and reestablishing the parasitic feeding on the Russian people and its economy they enjoyed after the fall of the Soviet Union.

    The Kremlin is definitely fighting fire with fire, however they are doing so on their own sovereign soil against foreign-interests disingenuously masquerading behind the ideals of Western civilization. The mobs polluting the streets of Russia, while consisting of well intentioned folks are being led by willful liars who are on record covering up their foreign-funding knowing full well their "legitimacy" will be compromised should it be made public. After what Wall Street and London have done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and in nation after nation as it expands its vast empire, why should any organization taking funds from these people to destabilize and overthrow their own country retain any semblance of legitimacy?

    And while NED and other corporate-funded foundations execute this policy of meddling in Russia's affairs, it is Wall Street and London, the largest banking, oil, defense contracting, and industrial interests on earth that are producing the policy. They do so via a network of think-tanks they themselves fund. It is essential that we understand who these corporations are, boycott them out of business, and begin replacing them entirely as a society. If they can meddle and cause chaos in the streets of a large, nuclear armed super power, what threat do they pose to average people, their families, and communities?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:56 pm

    Well Putin has ordered an investigation into the situation... hopefully all this can be officially exposed and his first act as President can be to ban such NGOs from Russia and arrest a few key figures for treason, and put out international warrants for the western based ringleaders.

    If the US can put Bout on trial and in prison then why shouldn't Russian law reach around the world too.

    Lets not be naive... these are the sort of people who financially support the Chechen terrorists in Russia and Finland, this is more than just a protest group.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:50 am

    People are genuinely sick of Putin, no external influence needed.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:20 am

    May I ask why?

    And who would the Russian people prefer... and why don't they vote for them instead?

    That is how democracy is supposed to work after all... vote for the people you want in power... not vote a guy in and then protest that his party was elected.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if he could come up with a credible US birth certificate a significant fraction of Americans would probably vote for him right now, simply because Obama was a huge let down and the alternatives don't actually seem that much better.

    The problem here is that there are no extreme parties that are viable... two main parties that are blue and red and otherwise not really different enough, who trade leadership of the country every few years when they either stuff up or people get bored and decide it is time for a change.

    They all only listen on election year and then they do what they like... someone once said that politicians are like babies nappies... they need to be changed often and for the same reasons.

    The problem is that good leadership means directing the entire country towards a destination... like a ship. If you keep changing crews and destinations then you never get anywhere, and most destinations are never so close they can be reached in one or even two terms.

    Now that Putin is only a 50% guy instead of a 75% guy he will need the support of other parties to get things done and they might choose to cooperate, and that cooperation alone might make things better, or they could be like the political parties in the US and sabotage him at every opportunity to make him look bad like the republicans have done, which might backfire on the republicans when they get in and start asking for cooperation to get things done... they are shooting themselves in the foot and it is America that will suffer for it for quite a few years to come.

    Will the Russian parties make the same mistake?

    From the other side of the planet I like Putin and Medvedev, I personally would have preferred to have seen Medvedev continue a second term, but with the US meddling in Iran and Syria and creating a mobile navy based ABM system they say they will position in the Med and Black Sea but because it is sea based could pretty much move anywhere in days... I reckon the US has made Putins return a necessity. They could have honoured their idea of a reset and backed off, but it seems they are after conflict all over the place including meddling in Russian elections now.
    I hope Putin tears them a new one.
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    Post  TR1 Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:00 am

    Because people are sick of him. The man served his term, changing the constitution to serve more is not going to make him any more popular- not that his little puppy Medvedev was really anyone new in the president's seat.

    People tolerated him because he was not an alcoholic embarrassment, but honestly, who ever had illusions about him? The guy was installed by Yeltsin to avoid retribution for leaving office a substantially richer man than he entered, is Putin any different? No, the man and his circle are awfull well off money wise considering how much he is supposed to be paid. Now, every other Russian politician being a thief I am used to, but that doesn't mean I am going to like them - Putin is a scumbag like the rest of them. His approval polls would not be half as good if it were not for high energy prices and the economy stabilizing itself naturally after 98 meltdown.

    Russians (at least not brainless Nashisti) would love a government that actually serves the people (not the other way around, as has always been in Russia) but easier said than done. Opposition parties have a hard time fighting the resources that UR can afford to spend on its campaigning...and even then they have to resort to blatant election fraud, like recently seen. It's all documented, large scale or not, it happened.

    I honestly don't put Putin and Obama into even the same type of men. Obama (unfair criticism to his handling of the economy, a largely natural force that was in any case screwed up by 8 years of Republican gov)is not a power obsessed liliput thief.

    I'm not advocating for some Yabloko type selling out of Russia, but honestly, UR is a bunch of scumbags, and that is the opinion that most (almost all?) of my family and friends in Russia share.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:20 am

    Well first of all the limit on terms as president is an AMERICAN thing, and really has nothing to do with democracy.

    Saying someone can't run for president because they have been voted president two times before in a row sounds very stupid to me... we have no such law here in New Zealand, and the only other country I know of with such a law is the US.

    I rather think that not just anyone can do a good job and not selling out to the west is the best thing Putin is known and hated for in the west... he could have tried to be popular in the west and signed everything put in front of him like Yeltsin, but he didn't. If he was really corrupt the money he could steal from Russia is not huge... the money he could get from western interests would be enormous... he just has to let foreign investors do to Russia what they did in East Germany... buy up cheap assets, fire a lot of people... steal all the pension funds, sell off any infrastructure that might be worth anything and scoop off the money and then sell it for twice what you paid for it.

    For a while it was the ex communists that were doing that because they had the contacts and the money and power and they were Russian and Russian assets were only being sold to Russian nationals. The sad thing is that those commies were worse than the capitalists... if Putin had been like Yeltsin the next step would have been in the collapse of Russia the west would have moved in and built lots of factories for the Russian people to work in and Russia would have become the new China.

    You see western consumer society works best with cheap consumables, but the only way to get cheap consumables is to have a slave labour force that will work for next to nothing.

    Workers earning less than a dollar a day making nike shoes worth $300 US is what I am talking about... of course as people earn money their expectations and quality of life improve and it becomes more and more expensive till they move the factories to Mexico, or the next place with lots of unemployed poor people.

    You say Russia grew just because of oil and gas... I would suggest that the pressure in the west was enormous to sell off those assets and allow them to go in and find and exploit more... with Putin Russia benefits from its oil... much like Iran does. With someone else in power you might find a situation more akin to Saudi Arabia or Kuwaite.

    Obviously you are entitled to your opinion and I hardly expect you to change your mind based on my comments, but I think you could do rather worse that Putin in charge... he seems to be rather more honest and open than most politicians and seems to tend to speak his mind and does not suffer fools.

    I have a lot of respect for him.

    And regarding personal fortunes... poor people can't make office... that is how democracy works... you will never see a peasant farmers son like Gorby getting into power again... unless he starts a business and makes a fortune and then runs for power. George Bush doesn't know what homeless means let alone being hungry and out of work and wondering how he will feed his family.

    BTW if American didn't have that stupid law that limits presidents to two terms Clinton probably would have kept Bush out and while Clinton liked to go to war as much as any US president, I don't think he would have put the US in the economic position it is in today. I mean Bill of course, not that bitch he married... the unelected other president.

    Obama made lots of promises about change and backtracked on pretty much every one of them. Git mo bay is still open for business, and torture is still standard US practise.
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    Post  ahmedfire Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:08 pm

    After the deals between russia and china in military co-operation, russian now agree to give ahigh military technology to chineese hands ,

    Americans now so angry and will do any thing to stop that after the georgia card burned out ,

    Russia now is protecting Syria and stand beside iran ,

    All these things will make americans do any thing to make disturbances in russia like coloured revolution and the excuse already known > > > Democracy Laughing

    So guys,How much george soros paid for these disturbances ? Wink
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    Post  TR1 Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:35 pm

    Garry, I will respond, and give you some detail of the particularly damning parts of Putin's rule on Russian society in general (as it pertains to me), but you must excuse me, finals weeks, college, you know how it goes.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:49 am

    I certainly have been there... good luck.

    I am happy to wait... I have no illusions Putin is perfect and would be interested to hear how you think he has failed a sector of Russian society.

    If I were in your shoes however I would be thinking of how to communicate this to Putin rather than think voting for someone else will solve the problem.

    Best of luck.
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    Post  Firebird Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:59 pm

    To me, any analysis of Putin needs to look at atleast 3 things:-

    1)Russia's standing in the World, together with the protection of her citizens and connected people. There's been NATO encroachment all over - including the Baltics, the Ukraine, Georgia, the Warsaw Pact, Middle East etc etc.
    Putin hasn't been a pushover, but Russians have been treated pretty badly by US-lackey states on some occasions. Then we must consider that while India has a sort of alliance with the CSTO, its still adopting a policy of standing back,

    2)The economic, social and cultural welfare of Russian citizens( both at home and in other states). OK, Russia is changing from the oligarchs vs poor situation that the idiot Yeltsin and Co caused. But I think most Russians would like to see more.

    3)Then there's the question of what sort of Russia do people want to see. A European style "democracy"? An authoritarian style centralised government. A European style civil code and welfare state etc. Ofcourse there are many, many options.

    Personally, I believe that Russia can be a massive, massive superpower. OR, it can go down a very wrong path eg Yeltsin style. Many people forget Russia IS the biggest country in the World. Tapping the Russian Arctic could bring monumental wealth. But I also think Russia needs to think of alliances more - with sensible European countries, her Slavic brothers and sisters, and looking towards Asia.

    One thing that does surprise me is that Russia has not dominated in the way I thought it might with technology, in the comercial sphere. I'm sure there's a gigantic amount of tech that could be converted to commercial uses and eclipse even Russia's mineral wealth .

    As for criticisms of Putin, thats a matter for Russians alone. Britain and America's sinister Establishments need to keep their mouths firmly shut. Perhaps Putin could help with a "regime change" over here in Britain..?! Very Happy

    I don't recall any of us voting for Feudalist Monarchies in the last elections..
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:14 am

    As for criticisms of Putin, thats a matter for Russians alone. Britain and America's sinister Establishments need to keep their mouths firmly shut. Perhaps Putin could help with a "regime change" over here in Britain..?!

    I hope you realise that while the UK and US are after political and economic advantages over Russia as a primary rival and therefore are worthless in regards to "democratic" advice, I am interest in Russia and the Russian people.

    I have long read of the history of Russia and they have not had an easy time... terribly harsh weather, compounded by terribly harsh neighbours has made life hard.

    My questions directed at you and others not pro Putin are mainly to understand what you have against him... no he is not me... yes that probably surprised SOC, and I freely admit to being a Putin fan, not for the machismo, but because when I hear him talk I think he is perhaps a little naieve in the sense that he is actually more honest than all the western politicians put together. I think he is very good for Russia and that is why I support him.

    Like it or not... the problems with the Soviet Union were many and varied, but the problems that made it fail were primarily financial and largely stemmed from trying to compete with all of the west lead by the US... you might be the biggest country on the planet, but the west is a bunch of colonial and excolonial powers who have plundered the earth for the last few centuries and were in a much better economic and geographic position to compete and win.

    Trying to be a superpower is a nice goal, but becoming an economic superpower should be your goal first... and that economic wealth can pay for the best military money can buy.

    Continual confrontation with the west is not the way forward, and not all of what is now called the west is your enemy.

    I fact I think Germany and France are probably much more likely to be Pro Russian than pro US. Play your cards right and you can add Greece and probably a few other countries in Europe to that list.

    America tries to drive wedges between its enemies and rivals and any potentially useful allies... case in point is Afghanistan... the Soviet Union basically armed and trained its neighbour for years, then in the early 1970s the CIA started to interfere and that relationship changed dramatically for the worse.

    The west as a whole, with the US at its head is not your friend and I am not suggesting jumping into bed with them... you will wake up next morning out on the street with a sore backside, your wallet empty and your house and car signed over to their names.

    On the other hand isolation is what stopped the Soviet Union being like China is now... a manufacturing centre for the world.

    You don't have an empire to maintain with lots of freeloading hangers on, you don't have an ideology to sell... and most importantly now you will have WTO access to markets that you have never had before.

    Having an experienced leader, who doesn't just do as they are told by the west, yet at the same time is wanting Russia to change, to adapt to the new century to allow progress is a good thing in my opinion.

    Russias standing in the world is not actually that bad. Most people outside of Europe and the US see Russia as a potential counter to the lynch mob of the western self appointed world police force. Of course this is not the cold war and Russia wont just intervene to do the right thing... Russia does not have bottomless pockets and is not in the business of regime change either.

    The US never let its own morals or any ideas of democracy or freedom get in the way of its foreign policy. US foreign policy is tied to its allies... Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Oil, and because of that its international actions don't seem to match the morality it spews during its sermons.

    Russia is not tied to that.

    The huge irony is that part of the advantage of at least being civil to Russia is that Russia still has ties to most of the countries that the US considers rogue states and a real reset of better relations rather than the actual reset which was basically about the US getting what it wants like transit routes to Afghanistan and ABM systems in Europe.
    Russia, as a real, full partner to the west could use its influence to solve a lot of problems the west has with a lot of countries... but how could the west then justify its defence budgets?

    2)The economic, social and cultural welfare of Russian citizens( both at home and in other states). OK, Russia is changing from the oligarchs vs poor situation that the idiot Yeltsin and Co caused. But I think most Russians would like to see more.

    Very much linked to the economy and international relations.
    I think because of the period of Yeltsin till about 2007-2008 when Putin concentrated on paying off foreign debt and building up a reserve... I realise there were promises of spending that never happened... especially for the Military and that caused a lot of frustration and anger, but now Russia is in a much much better position than most of the EU and if you play your cards right and help the correct parts of the EU things might improve faster... the west has largely failed in the promise of "trickle down" where paying CEOs enormous bonus's is supposed to improve everyones situation as when they spend money they create an economy that benefits from their wealth. Problem is that they tend to buy foreign cars and hoard their money to remain rich.

    Even here in New Zealand they hide the real issue by talking about raising minimum wage. The solution is not paying people more, the solution is to limit the ratio of the highest salary and the lowest salary in a company. It is cheaper to give the CEO an extra $5000 a year than to give 1,000 workers an extra $10 a year. The problem is that when the people doing the actual work that generates income for the company earn $25 an hour and the three CEOs are on salary packages that include a car, paid holidays, complete medical and dental cover plus $1 million dollars a year or more... the people at the bottom feel like they are trapped in a pyramid scheme... such schemes are outlawed in most countries because when they collapse... as they invariably have to, it is only the people at the top that make any money and everyone else gets screwed.
    My question is, if these schemes are illegal, why is the company model also based on a pyramid?

    3)Then there's the question of what sort of Russia do people want to see. A European style "democracy"? An authoritarian style centralised government. A European style civil code and welfare state etc. Ofcourse there are many, many options.

    Here in New Zealand we are constantly making changes... because this is how they do it in the US or UK or somewhere else. Russia needs to find its own path and decide what sort of society suits it best. Western democracy is teetering, and lots of choices being made show clearly the ideal western model of "market forces" is a load of rubbish... companies are even less trustworthy to control themselves than governments. Governments need to set clear rules and no company can be allowed to get too big to fail.

    But I also think Russia needs to think of alliances more - with sensible European countries, her Slavic brothers and sisters, and looking towards Asia.

    Not just countries you have ethnic ties to... look at how successful Russias relationship with India has been in the past, yet culturally you have not that much in common. Different can be good too.

    Don't be like the US... I like the Star Trek analogy best... in Star Trek the Soviets/communists were depicted as the Klingons... a less civilised almost animal like race but with some technologies superior to human (American) technology... like the cloaking technology. Totally offensive of course, but it clearly showed the American mentality.

    The irony is that while in Next Generation the Klingons were integrated into American civilisation with the addition of Worf on the Enterprise crew, they introduced a new race that actually reminds me a lot of the Americans. The Borg. The Borg are a melting pot of every civilisation and technology they have come across, and they are centrally controlled by a central core whose goals are not control of oil, but the assimilation of new technology and power.

    Souless, Heartless, with a veneer of morality and righteousness and religion, but basically high tech space zombies at heart.

    One thing that does surprise me is that Russia has not dominated in the way I thought it might with technology, in the comercial sphere. I'm sure there's a gigantic amount of tech that could be converted to commercial uses and eclipse even Russia's mineral wealth .

    The mineral wealth has to be carefully used to develop tool and design technology, so that Russia can design and tool up high tech high productive factories that can put out quality products made from your own raw materials. The margin on raw materials is much lower than on products and finished goods, so it is more profitable to use the raw materials yourself to create what you need and export the rest as icing on the cake.

    BTW thank you for sharing your feelings and opinions on the matter. I hope I haven't offended anyone with my... forthright and sometimes a little eccentric ideas and opinions.
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    Post  SOC Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:02 am

    GarryB wrote:no he is not me... yes that probably surprised SOC

    Whyso? I know you're not Putin! Even ex-KGB types aren't nutso enough to get rid of their entire air force willingly jocolor

    Hell, I'd take Putin over Obama any day of the week. I've got a book, this one: http://www.amazon.com/First-Person-Astonishingly-Self-Portrait-President/dp/1586480189/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/188-1142449-7340233 which I found to be a pretty interesting picture of the man. Granted, I do not live in Russia. Nor do I follow a lot of the politics over there (hell I don't even follow them over here much anymore, there's no point to it at all). But Putin has always struck me as a guy who is not to be screwed with. And for a nation still arguably trying to move forward from the 1990s problems, you could do a lot worse.

    Plus, Putin said he thought the protesters were wearing condoms. That was just hilarious.

    Oh, and TR1, that economic problem over here? Remember that it had a lot of its roots in all of the Fannie May/Freddie Mac BS? It was the Democrats that continually stopped Republican efforts to enact reforms and stricter oversight on the whole system prior to the house of cards collapsing. Neither party is immune to creating the problems we've got, and solely casting blame on one side or the other is completely wrong. I only grudgingly voted McCain as the lesser of two evils (and to see if he really had the balls to veto anything on his desk with pork spending attached), as I consider myself a mostly Republican, and even I will tell you that nobody in D.C. is really helping anything.
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    Post  Russian Patriot Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    As for criticisms of Putin, thats a matter for Russians alone. Britain and America's sinister Establishments need to keep their mouths firmly shut. Perhaps Putin could help with a "regime change" over here in Britain..?!

    I hope you realise that while the UK and US are after political and economic advantages over Russia as a primary rival and therefore are worthless in regards to "democratic" advice, I am interest in Russia and the Russian people.

    I have long read of the history of Russia and they have not had an easy time... terribly harsh weather, compounded by terribly harsh neighbours has made life hard.

    My questions directed at you and others not pro Putin are mainly to understand what you have against him... no he is not me... yes that probably surprised SOC, and I freely admit to being a Putin fan, not for the machismo, but because when I hear him talk I think he is perhaps a little naieve in the sense that he is actually more honest than all the western politicians put together. I think he is very good for Russia and that is why I support him.

    Like it or not... the problems with the Soviet Union were many and varied, but the problems that made it fail were primarily financial and largely stemmed from trying to compete with all of the west lead by the US... you might be the biggest country on the planet, but the west is a bunch of colonial and excolonial powers who have plundered the earth for the last few centuries and were in a much better economic and geographic position to compete and win.

    Trying to be a superpower is a nice goal, but becoming an economic superpower should be your goal first... and that economic wealth can pay for the best military money can buy.

    Continual confrontation with the west is not the way forward, and not all of what is now called the west is your enemy.

    I fact I think Germany and France are probably much more likely to be Pro Russian than pro US. Play your cards right and you can add Greece and probably a few other countries in Europe to that list.

    America tries to drive wedges between its enemies and rivals and any potentially useful allies... case in point is Afghanistan... the Soviet Union basically armed and trained its neighbour for years, then in the early 1970s the CIA started to interfere and that relationship changed dramatically for the worse.

    The west as a whole, with the US at its head is not your friend and I am not suggesting jumping into bed with them... you will wake up next morning out on the street with a sore backside, your wallet empty and your house and car signed over to their names.

    On the other hand isolation is what stopped the Soviet Union being like China is now... a manufacturing centre for the world.

    You don't have an empire to maintain with lots of freeloading hangers on, you don't have an ideology to sell... and most importantly now you will have WTO access to markets that you have never had before.

    Having an experienced leader, who doesn't just do as they are told by the west, yet at the same time is wanting Russia to change, to adapt to the new century to allow progress is a good thing in my opinion.

    Russias standing in the world is not actually that bad. Most people outside of Europe and the US see Russia as a potential counter to the lynch mob of the western self appointed world police force. Of course this is not the cold war and Russia wont just intervene to do the right thing... Russia does not have bottomless pockets and is not in the business of regime change either.

    The US never let its own morals or any ideas of democracy or freedom get in the way of its foreign policy. US foreign policy is tied to its allies... Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Oil, and because of that its international actions don't seem to match the morality it spews during its sermons.

    Russia is not tied to that.

    The huge irony is that part of the advantage of at least being civil to Russia is that Russia still has ties to most of the countries that the US considers rogue states and a real reset of better relations rather than the actual reset which was basically about the US getting what it wants like transit routes to Afghanistan and ABM systems in Europe.
    Russia, as a real, full partner to the west could use its influence to solve a lot of problems the west has with a lot of countries... but how could the west then justify its defence budgets?

    2)The economic, social and cultural welfare of Russian citizens( both at home and in other states). OK, Russia is changing from the oligarchs vs poor situation that the idiot Yeltsin and Co caused. But I think most Russians would like to see more.

    Very much linked to the economy and international relations.
    I think because of the period of Yeltsin till about 2007-2008 when Putin concentrated on paying off foreign debt and building up a reserve... I realise there were promises of spending that never happened... especially for the Military and that caused a lot of frustration and anger, but now Russia is in a much much better position than most of the EU and if you play your cards right and help the correct parts of the EU things might improve faster... the west has largely failed in the promise of "trickle down" where paying CEOs enormous bonus's is supposed to improve everyones situation as when they spend money they create an economy that benefits from their wealth. Problem is that they tend to buy foreign cars and hoard their money to remain rich.

    Even here in New Zealand they hide the real issue by talking about raising minimum wage. The solution is not paying people more, the solution is to limit the ratio of the highest salary and the lowest salary in a company. It is cheaper to give the CEO an extra $5000 a year than to give 1,000 workers an extra $10 a year. The problem is that when the people doing the actual work that generates income for the company earn $25 an hour and the three CEOs are on salary packages that include a car, paid holidays, complete medical and dental cover plus $1 million dollars a year or more... the people at the bottom feel like they are trapped in a pyramid scheme... such schemes are outlawed in most countries because when they collapse... as they invariably have to, it is only the people at the top that make any money and everyone else gets screwed.
    My question is, if these schemes are illegal, why is the company model also based on a pyramid?

    3)Then there's the question of what sort of Russia do people want to see. A European style "democracy"? An authoritarian style centralised government. A European style civil code and welfare state etc. Ofcourse there are many, many options.

    Here in New Zealand we are constantly making changes... because this is how they do it in the US or UK or somewhere else. Russia needs to find its own path and decide what sort of society suits it best. Western democracy is teetering, and lots of choices being made show clearly the ideal western model of "market forces" is a load of rubbish... companies are even less trustworthy to control themselves than governments. Governments need to set clear rules and no company can be allowed to get too big to fail.

    But I also think Russia needs to think of alliances more - with sensible European countries, her Slavic brothers and sisters, and looking towards Asia.

    Not just countries you have ethnic ties to... look at how successful Russias relationship with India has been in the past, yet culturally you have not that much in common. Different can be good too.

    Don't be like the US... I like the Star Trek analogy best... in Star Trek the Soviets/communists were depicted as the Klingons... a less civilised almost animal like race but with some technologies superior to human (American) technology... like the cloaking technology. Totally offensive of course, but it clearly showed the American mentality.

    The irony is that while in Next Generation the Klingons were integrated into American civilisation with the addition of Worf on the Enterprise crew, they introduced a new race that actually reminds me a lot of the Americans. The Borg. The Borg are a melting pot of every civilisation and technology they have come across, and they are centrally controlled by a central core whose goals are not control of oil, but the assimilation of new technology and power.

    Souless, Heartless, with a veneer of morality and righteousness and religion, but basically high tech space zombies at heart.

    One thing that does surprise me is that Russia has not dominated in the way I thought it might with technology, in the comercial sphere. I'm sure there's a gigantic amount of tech that could be converted to commercial uses and eclipse even Russia's mineral wealth .

    The mineral wealth has to be carefully used to develop tool and design technology, so that Russia can design and tool up high tech high productive factories that can put out quality products made from your own raw materials. The margin on raw materials is much lower than on products and finished goods, so it is more profitable to use the raw materials yourself to create what you need and export the rest as icing on the cake.

    BTW thank you for sharing your feelings and opinions on the matter. I hope I haven't offended anyone with my... forthright and sometimes a little eccentric ideas and opinions.


    correction :we were depicted as Klingon until 90's, after we are depicted as Gorns Very Happy

    Why can't we vote for opposition you ask?

    Because the opposition is not on the ballot!

    LDPR, Communists, Fair Russia and others have always been in Duma , and always mostly agreed in backroom deals with United Russia. so its a farce and even a former United supporter understands that.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:18 am

    Here in New Zealand we have a system called MMP.

    I wont bore you with the details but I get a vote for a local MP and a vote for a Party.

    Party votes are counted up and any party with more than 5% gets a seat in parliment. MPs can be directly voted into parliment, or they can get in because they are on a party list through the party vote.

    We also have two major parties, but the difference between them is not that big so they often get similar numbers of seats, so it comes down to after an election one of the two major parties creating a coalition with several of the smaller parties to form a government, so backroom deals are a normal part of government here.

    It is good in my opinion because it stops either of the big parties being able to do anything they want because they need the support of the smaller parties to get things done.

    No big party is stupid enough to want to cooperate with a small party that wants to reintroduce slavery or anything, so while a few strange laws get through, mostly it stops radical changes rather than promotes them.

    It means smaller parties get a voice in parliment even if they don't get any real major control.
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    Post  Raghu Reddy Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:56 pm

    Dunno much about Russian Politics!!

    What are the chances of Liberal Democratic Party of Russia winning the elections

    I was just reading about LDPR, and they seemed to be someone capable to bringing back the Soviet Era.

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    Post  SOC Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:19 pm

    Raghu Reddy wrote:Dunno much about Russian Politics!!

    What are the chances of Liberal Democratic Party of Russia winning the elections

    I was just reading about LDPR, and they seemed to be someone capable to bringing back the Soviet Era.


    Slim to none? Zhirinovskiy would have to hope Putin gets less than 50% of the vote and have himself finish #2 in the polls. Then he'd have to win the run-off election. Dunno if that's a realistic hope.

    It is interesting that the Russian President has a lot more political power than the US President, if you compare the powers each office can exert. Plus, the President basically appoints the members of the Federation Council (upper house of the Federal Assembly), as he appoints the regional politicians that select the Council members. This obviously makes the Council far more amenable to doing things like approving the President's government appointees. Compared to the way it works over here, it certainly makes for a system where it's easier for the President to accomplish what he sets out to accomplish.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:46 am

    It seems Europe has no idea about what a democracy is or how it is supposed to function.

    The OSCE has criticised the Russian Presidential Election because it thinks that the result should not be known before hand.

    It seems to think Elections should be like Lottery draws perhaps?

    Tonino Picula, head of the OSCE observer mission in Russia noted that “The point of elections is that the outcome should be uncertain”.

    So I guess the situation in Europe is a problem where leaders are assigned to countries by their overlords in Brussels, and in the US where there are only likely to be two candidates for President whereas there were quite a few candidates in the Russian election in comparison...
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    Post  SOC Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:So I guess the situation in Europe is a problem where leaders are assigned to countries by their overlords in Brussels, and in the US where there are only likely to be two candidates for President whereas there were quite a few candidates in the Russian election in comparison...

    OSCE is full of crap. The Duma elections are in December. If you look at the percentage of votes that went to United Russia, it's not really a shocker that the United Russia presidential candidate was going to win the March election, is it?

    Also, who in Brussels assigns leaders to EU members? The EU tries to talk a big game and has a habit recently of throwing money about but in the grand scheme of things it's probably a lot less powerful than you think it is in many areas. Assigning leaders actually goes the other direction. Look at Britain. Vote for MPs, then the leader of the party with the most seats becomes Prime Minister, Britain's chief executive. That then automatically inserts him or her into the European Council, made up of the heads of state of the 27 member countries, plus an elected council president (Van Rompuy) and an observer's position for the head of the European Commission (Barroso). I'm actually enrolled in a class on the EU right now, on the basis of I had no clue what it really was or did other than these were the guys that made the Euro, like to give Greece money, and refuse to let NATO die.

    And while we're at it there are more than two candidates for President in US elections, you just never hear too much about them because they rarely if ever get any electoral college votes. Yes, I know the way we elect the President is completely retarded.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:00 pm

    Also, who in Brussels assigns leaders to EU members?

    I remember seeing a news report where the government of an Eu country stepped down and was replaced by the person responsible for putting that country in the EU... I think it was Greece but can't remember.

    And BTW hmmm more than two US candidates but anyone outside the two major parties is largely unknown because the major media outlets ignore them? Where have I heard about that before?....

    So really all Russia needs is one more powerful political party to split the vote and give the morons at the bottom a better chance of getting seats... is that really how democracy should work?

    If you are studying the EU Sean then you will know better than most that there are plenty of different types of democracy and criticising Russias' implementation is the height of hypocrisy...

    US elections take about a year, while India seems to get itself sorted in a month or so.

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