Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I started reading Machiavelli much before than you, and I still keep "Il Principe" in one of my bookshelves, thanks.
And yes, France "f#&ked up" Italy on many occasions in the last 13 hundreds years (starting with damaging the relations between the italian peninsula and the (Eastern) Roman Empire.
The shipyard issue is just one of the most recent.
Btw, modern day Russophobia it's just the evolution and the consequence of the schism between Rome and Constantinople caused by the actions of french and german monarchs starting from the 8 century.
Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.
Stupidly our population and many of the politicians believe that selling it to the french is almost the same as if it was in italian hands, since the EU is a big happy family... sure, in their dreams...
In addition, I still do not understand why it would be beneficial for Italy to produce ships in a french shipyard. If we have so many orders I would better spend the money and enlarge an existing shipyard or build from scratch a brand new one in Italy, than give work to french people and pay taxes there. Furthermore, when Italy decided to acquire it the majority of its shares were own by Sudkorea.
The problem for Italy is that a large percentage of the politicians are bought by other nations (and it is interesting to see how many of the italian politicians that damaged Italy received the French legion d'honneur) or non state actors (Soros paid NGOs, etc), and another big part are just useful idiots that honestly believe that the other EU nations are friendly and want the best for us.
Basically Germans and some other nations think at their own interests first, while in Italy there is a lack of interest for the protection of strategic industrial and infrastructural assets, many of which were sold to other nations in the last 25 years.
Actually the italian politicians that were more appreciated in EU, like Prodi or Monti, were among those with a bigger part and responsibility in the destruction or sell of italian industrial basis.
Unfortunately the politicians that present themselves as interested in preserving Italian interests are in many cases idiots, naive or unprepared, and more often than not they damage further their cause (e.g. Salvini).
In addition the basis of a separation of powers is not anymore a reality in Italy, and the judges and magistrates often have a strong political agenda.
This process started in the 90s with "tangentopoli", were with the excuse of corruption they removed from power the last independent and capable politicians in Italy(especially Craxi; while it was true that there was corruption around his circles, even if not more than in other western nations, just maybe more apparent, it was for sure less corruption than after him, and this was still to a level that did not favour one or the other party in particular).
Then a couple of years later (in 1994) came Berlusconi. He had a lot of defects, and his own actions made him vulnerable to political or judicial blackmails, but at least he tried to protect Italian interests and managed to keep good relations with both USA and Russia, and started to try to include Russia in the western system (probably because that for Italy it was important to have another nation that could counter "our allies").
He was in and out several times with the centre left with the "seller of Italy" Prodi or (the guy that allowed the americans to use Italian bases to bomb Serbia in 1999) d'alema ruling the government when Berlusconi own allies managed to destroy the government from within.
He was then removed from power for the last time in 2011, with a sort of coup d'État organised by the italian president (a role that should not have political power, but only act as a guarant of democracy, similar to the British queen, but only for 7 years) Napolitano (a former corrupted communist that took Soviet money until 1991 and American money afterwards) and probably for fear of ending in prison or in "exile" like Craxi accepted the blackmail, released power and allowed the french and americans to destroy Libia (among the rest, french people did not like fair competion on the oil market, since ENI managed to have written better contracts with Gaddafi and also because the clown Sarkozy wanted to hide that the libians gave him money for his election campaign).
After him Monti, a theoretical economist that applied a sort of light greek cure to Italy, continuing in the destruction of the italian middle class and destroying the future of many young Italians.
The incredibly high debt/gdp ratio of italy is due instead to many factors, including the separation of the bank of Italy from the government control (I believe in 1979), high spending in the 80s (including paying high rents to people retiring in their early 40s) and then finally and mainly the adoption of Euro as a currency, and the austerity measures and incredibly high taxes started in the early 90s that did not allow the GDP to grow.
Another thing that I don't like in EU is the too large political importance of small statelets like belgium and holland (that, btw during the colonial era they were responsible for horrible crimes, even worse then those of French and Brits), and of the state of Luxembourg, that is basically a modern day "financial Tortuga".
In addition, as I said before, the taxes in Italy are unbearably high, and if you have your own firm it is practically impossible to respect all the laws, pay all the taxes and survive.
However multinational firms operating in Italy that have financial base in Luxembourg or in other fiscal paradises, may end up paying almost no taxes in Italy, basically stealing money from the italian budget and creating unfair competition to real italian firms.
Anyway now with the new german woman at the head of the EU commission the Germans believe they can do whatever they want. I believe it will end up as a pyrrhic victory for them. Afterall Germans are excellent tacticians, but bad strategists.
I guess you are Italian?
I like Italy. I live not that far from Italy. Im from Aix-en-Provence and my family is from Nice. I often visit Savone and i have a girlfriend in Lucca.
One thing you must understand. For France, its always France first. When we say Europe, we mean France. We like to build nternational companies but always we must have control over it.
Nothing against Fincantieri, but the idea of STX in italian hands was impossible for us to support.
When we say european army, we mean army under french rule.
We have nothing against Italy. We are thankful for Salvini in a way. We accept zero migrants but he takes the fire. In a way, Italy is our heatshield.
All in all i think our relations are good. Its just the typical biting at each other.
One thing though...while the area around Savone is like France i once visited the area down near Bari...man thats like a different country.