Western propaganda

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I started reading Machiavelli much before than you, and I still keep "Il Principe" in one of my bookshelves, thanks.

And yes, France "f#&ked up" Italy on many occasions in the last 13 hundreds years (starting with damaging the relations between the italian peninsula and the (Eastern) Roman Empire.

The shipyard issue is just one of the most recent.

Btw, modern day Russophobia it's just the evolution and the consequence of the schism between Rome and Constantinople caused by the actions of french and german monarchs starting from the 8 century.

Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

Stupidly our population and many of the politicians believe that selling it to the french is almost the same as if it was in italian hands, since the EU is a big happy family... sure, in their dreams...

In addition, I still do not understand why it would be beneficial for Italy to produce ships in a french shipyard. If we have so many orders I would better spend the money and enlarge an existing shipyard or build from scratch a brand new one in Italy, than give work to french people and pay taxes there. Furthermore, when Italy decided to acquire it the majority of its shares were own by Sudkorea.

The problem for Italy is that a large percentage of the politicians are bought by other nations (and it is interesting to see how many of the italian politicians that damaged Italy received the French legion d'honneur) or non state actors (Soros paid NGOs, etc), and another big part are just useful idiots that honestly believe that the other EU nations are friendly and want the best for us.

Basically Germans and some other nations think at their own interests first, while in Italy there is a lack of interest for the protection of strategic industrial and infrastructural assets, many of which were sold to other nations in the last 25 years.

Actually the italian politicians that were more appreciated in EU, like Prodi or Monti, were among those with a bigger part and responsibility in the destruction or sell of italian industrial basis.

Unfortunately the politicians that present themselves as interested in preserving Italian interests are in many cases idiots, naive or unprepared, and more often than not they damage further their cause (e.g. Salvini).

In addition the basis of a separation of powers is not anymore a reality in Italy, and the judges and magistrates often have a strong political agenda.

This process started in the 90s with "tangentopoli", were with the excuse of corruption they removed from power the last independent and capable politicians in Italy(especially Craxi; while it was true that there was corruption around his circles, even if not more than in other western nations, just maybe more apparent, it was for sure less corruption than after him, and this was still to a level that did not favour one or the other party in particular).

Then a couple of years later (in 1994) came Berlusconi. He had a lot of defects, and his own actions made him vulnerable to political or judicial  blackmails, but at least he tried to protect Italian interests and managed to keep good relations with both USA and Russia, and started to try to include Russia in the western system (probably because that for Italy it was important to have another nation that could counter  "our allies").

He was in and out several times with the centre left with the "seller of Italy" Prodi or (the guy that allowed the americans to use Italian bases to bomb Serbia in 1999) d'alema ruling the government when Berlusconi own allies managed to destroy the government from within.

He was then removed from power for the last time in 2011, with a sort of coup d'État organised by the italian president (a role that should not have political power, but only act as a guarant of democracy, similar to the British queen, but only for 7 years) Napolitano (a former corrupted communist that took Soviet money until 1991 and American money afterwards) and probably for fear of ending in prison or in "exile" like Craxi accepted the blackmail, released power and allowed the french and americans to destroy Libia (among the rest, french people did not like fair competion on the oil market, since ENI managed to have written better contracts with Gaddafi and also because the clown Sarkozy wanted to hide that the libians gave him money for his election campaign).

After him Monti, a theoretical economist that applied a sort of light greek cure to Italy, continuing in the destruction of the italian middle class and destroying the future of many young Italians.

The incredibly high debt/gdp ratio of italy is due instead to many factors, including the separation of the  bank of Italy from the government control (I believe in 1979), high spending in the 80s (including paying high rents to people retiring in their early 40s) and then finally and mainly the adoption of Euro as a currency, and the austerity measures and incredibly high taxes started in the early 90s that did not allow the GDP to grow.


Another thing that I don't like in EU is the too large political importance of small statelets like belgium and holland (that, btw during the colonial era they were responsible for horrible crimes, even worse then those of French and Brits), and of the state of Luxembourg, that is basically a modern day "financial Tortuga".

In addition, as I said before, the taxes in Italy are unbearably high, and if you have your own firm it is practically impossible to respect all the laws, pay all the taxes and survive.

However multinational firms operating in Italy that have financial base in Luxembourg or in other fiscal paradises, may end up paying almost no taxes in Italy, basically stealing money from the italian budget and creating unfair competition to real italian firms.

Anyway now with the new german woman at the head of the EU commission the Germans believe they can do whatever they want. I believe it will end up as a pyrrhic victory for them. Afterall Germans are excellent tacticians, but bad strategists.

kvs wrote:

Supposedly the tank battle at Kursk is a fake and the USSR lost 235 tanks while the Reich lost only 5 tanks.

This retarded revisionist lie is based on the following article:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16161262.2019.1606545

The whole premise is that some Luftwaffe recon photos supposedly does not show enough tanks.   LOL.

My background is physics and I do research for a living.   Here are some questions:

1) How much of the actual battlefield area do the Luftwaffe photos cover?   We are not talking about satellite images.
The article does not address this issue.   It is not possible for the Luftwaffe to have conducted a full areal mapping survey
given the location of this battlefield.  

2) Given the quality of these photos, how can any feature be 100% identified as actual tank wreakage?   The article
uses "possibly" and "potential" a lot.   The "evidence" presented is not real evidence.   In spite of the claim that some
sort of digital enhancement technology exists, the fact remains that without real time re-imaging a blurry low res photo
can never be made high res.   Adaptive optics work only because there is a time-resolved imaging stream.   You can't
apply adaptive optics to undo atmospheric effects on a single snapshot.   And there is no solution to image blurring from
vibration without an accurate model of the vibration.   Lost information remains lost.  Photos do not magically encode
arbitrary levels of information.  

If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication.   You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
they claim.   Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.

Of course an internationalist and globalist like you would love to see France throwing its national corporations under the bus for a few bucks.

France is very protective of its key industries. I see this as a positive thing.

Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication. You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
they claim. Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.

Stop to live in the past. We have 2019. What happened in 1945 is as irrelevant as who killed the Ice mummy.

By the way, we had bastille day just few days ago. We invited german troops to participate in our military parade.

Russia is stuck too much in the past. I think it would be impossible for Russia to invite german troops to take part and show friendship and that the past is over

GarryB wrote:

But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

Aristide wrote:One thing you must understand. For France, its always France first. When we say Europe, we mean France. We like to build nternational companies but always we must have control over it.

Nothing against Fincantieri, but the idea of STX in italian hands was impossible for us to support.

When we say european army, we mean army under french rule.

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.

GarryB wrote:

Of course an internationalist and globalist like you would love to see France throwing its national corporations under the bus for a few bucks.

France is very protective of its key industries. I see this as a positive thing.

But Americans and Europeans are democratic and free market supporters who hate communism... nationalising businesses to protect from foreign ownership is socialism isn't it?

Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

Learn from the French and nationalise them...

If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication. You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
they claim. Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.

Link it to the confirmed number of Jews killed during WWII by the Germans and there will never be any question the number is less than 6 million tanks...

Stop to live in the past. We have 2019. What happened in 1945 is as irrelevant as who killed the Ice mummy.

By the way, we had bastille day just few days ago. We invited german troops to participate in our military parade.

Russia is stuck too much in the past. I think it would be impossible for Russia to invite german troops to take part and show friendship and that the past is over

Actually I would say the opposite... why could France so eagerly and quickly forgive Germany and Japan for their terrible crimes during WWII where enormous numbers of French people were killed or mistreated, yet there is no positive feelings to the country that helped defeat Germany and Japan, just because there was ill feeling and mistrust for the 60 odd years of the cold war where very few French people were directly killed by the Soviets or Russians?

Equally why do you equate everything the Soviets did with the Russians and not the georgians or lithuanians or latvians or ukrainians, or estonians or people from belarus or any of the 'stan republics?

The problem isn't with Russia, it is the west that is holding the grudge and not moving on, but somehow that is Russias fault.  

Gary you should understand history.

France needs peace with Germany. Its basicly the only country that matters regarding that.

Look we attacked Germany for hundreds of years. Look what we did to them under Napoleon or earlier. No country suffered worse from us than Germany. Over hundreds of years we attacked those weak states. Crushed them, exploited them. They were many little countries. We a united powerful kingdom.

When they managed to defeat us in i think 1870, they were so proud. It forged their nation.

But we could not let this go. France worked hard to act against the german empire. We became main enemies. We forged alliances against them. They knew our hate and also knew how we are. They made alliances against us ad this escalated in 1914 into WW I.

When Germany lost, it was France that wanted them crushed. The americans aid, that what we do to Germany will lead to new desaster. BUt we wanted them suffer. And see what happened, they elected Hitler. WW II came and France realized it cant go that way forever. Thats why we make good with Germany. We are not always one opinion as nations but its important, that we must have good relations.

With Russia thats not the case. Its ok to be good with them but has no consequences if we are not. I´m in favor of neutral relations with Russia.

If you look at history...if we french in 1918 had teh strength to step over our wish for revenge. If we had give Germany our hand and forgive...But we did not. We crushed them down again and again. We humilated them even at public signing of the treaty. Even in the 20th, german politicians tries to ease relations. It worked with USA, Russia, Italy and even UK. But we kept holding a grudge.

If we had done different, Hitler would not have been voted. Thats what our country is to blame for.

For your ideology, thats immoral, but why are we like we are...and they...are like tehy are?

Our nation worked to achieve this status.

GarryB wrote:

Gary you should understand history.

France needs peace with Germany. Its basicly the only country that matters regarding that.

Look we attacked Germany for hundreds of years. Look what we did to them under Napoleon or earlier. No country suffered worse from us than Germany. Over hundreds of years we attacked those weak states. Crushed them, exploited them. They were many little countries. We a united powerful kingdom.

When they managed to defeat us in i think 1870, they were so proud. It forged their nation.

But we could not let this go. France worked hard to act against the german empire. We became main enemies. We forged alliances against them. They knew our hate and also knew how we are. They made alliances against us ad this escalated in 1914 into WW I.

When Germany lost, it was France that wanted them crushed. The americans aid, that what we do to Germany will lead to new desaster. BUt we wanted them suffer. And see what happened, they elected Hitler. WW II came and France realized it cant go that way forever. Thats why we make good with Germany. We are not always one opinion as nations but its important, that we must have good relations.

With Russia thats not the case. Its ok to be good with them but has no consequences if we are not. I´m in favor of neutral relations with Russia.

If you look at history...if we french in 1918 had teh strength to step over our wish for revenge. If we had give Germany our hand and forgive...But we did not. We crushed them down again and again. We humilated them even at public signing of the treaty. Even in the 20th, german politicians tries to ease relations. It worked with USA, Russia, Italy and even UK. But we kept holding a grudge.

If we had done different, Hitler would not have been voted. Thats what our country is to blame for.

I know all of that, what I am saying is that Russia was in a bad way in 1990, and you... and when I say you I mean the entire west, could have said well done... we have been asking you to give up communism all this time and now you are giving democracy a go... now that you are on our side we wont treat you like an arch enemy... but you didn't.

The entire west acted like they won and the Soviet Union lost and that Russia was still the Soviet Union and to be treated as a new vassal state that will do exactly as it is told when it is told.

You all fucked up.

Now Russia is much much stronger than it was in the early 1990s... in fact I would say it was in many ways stronger than the EU because the EU still begs and pleads at the feet of Washington and does as it is told even when it doesn't suit its own people.

The entire EU could do some serious damage to Russia but Russia could obliterate the EU with nukes alone.

In many ways the west has created Putin... you should just be relieved he is not the psychopath that Hitler was... but keep pushing Russia, I am sure they can find someone to fit the bill...

For your ideology, thats immoral, but why are we like we are...and they...are like tehy are?

Our nation worked to achieve this status.

Congratulations, for making France look worse than I ever could...

Man has been awhile since I saw someone this deluded by patriotism and I thought Garry was bad.

kvs wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Man has been awhile since I saw someone this deluded by patriotism and I thought Garry was bad.

He sounds more American than you do SS....  

Can I just repeat:

Congratulations, for making France look worse than I ever could...

And regarding you wondering why I suggest you should think Russia is more important than you do... first of all if you got every bullet and nuclear weapon ever made in the history of man you couldn't shoot down half the trees in Siberia, so lets forget this silly notion France could obliterate Russia... but by your own admission France is a user and abuser of countries resources and Russia is a country with the most resources on the planet.

But I understand your disinterest because you already tried to take it and got your arse kicked by those simple peasants...

As the west slowly sinks in the cesspool it made of things I will find it amusing to watch as China and other countries rise up and take your place...

The notion of either France or UK or both obliterating Russia is so ridiculous it makes one cringe.  These two countries have
military power that is a tiny fraction of the USA.  Their nominal budgets for the military mean precisely nothing since all that
money does not give them actual military resources.  It is, self-evidently, just corrupt pork.   If France and the UK are all
that, then why do you hear zero about any anti-missile systems from them?  Turkey tried to buy US Patriots which the USA refused
to sell it and went with the S-400 instead.  The US does not even have a missile system in the class and with the capabilities of the
S-400.  France and the UK are not even in the market.   But monkeys like the resident troll in this thread think that comparing budgets in dollars has meaning.  

I guess some people just never learn.  Napoleon bitched about being defeated by General Winter when the biggest battles were in
fall (early September).  He failed to win any of these battles and settled for ransacking Moscow like a barbarian.   General Winter
kicked his and his grand armee's a** on the way out the door.   Whahhh, we were defeated during our epic retreat.

LOL.

Regular wrote:How would you sterilise whole ethnic group? How anyone would you carry this out?
China could use this internally and they are very advanced in CRISP and in biotech.