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    Western propaganda

    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:But that is your problem... like most of your fellow euro morons you don't comprehend the obvious even when it is plainly spelled out for you.

    Cobalt bombs don't suit the west because they are interested in ruling the entire world... they want the resources of Russia, their problem is that they can't walk in and just take it like they have over the last few hundred years when the natives were stupid and signed shit when they should have spoken to lawyers.

    Cobalt bombs suit the Russians because they have not interest in capturing or occupying the west or invasion of any kind, their reasons for destroying the west are to literally just that... remove it as a threat. The west has made it clear it does not want to communicate or cooperate or build any useful relationship... it expects Russia to do as it is told which will largely result in Russia remaining a poor country and its wealth syphoned from it by the chosen few western 1% elite billionaires so they can achieve their goal of becoming trillionaires.

    Russia knows when it uses its nukes that it is already going to be destroyed... the American and British and French nukes are probably already on their way, so their nuclear response is not about making this right... the best thing their nuclear response can do is make the west realise their chances of surviving the attack are zero so they wont launch their attack in the first place.

    In other words the Russian response has to be dire because if it was trivial the west might think they could survive it... making a nuclear war much more likely.

    Russia developing doomsday devices is not about destroying the world... it is about making the west realise they wont win a nuclear war and that it is not worth starting in the first place.

    The goal is prevention. There is no expectation or intended purpose to "win"... it is only when it is clear everyone loses that no body tries.

    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:31 am

    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.

    But you are acting like a moron.... on this page alone is clear evidence of the original story and then almost the entire range of western news agencies from Britain and the US clearly lying about important details of the story... show me that happening on RT or Sputnik...

    There was a big conference on press freedom held in the country currently holding Assange in jail for being a journalist, that banned RT and Sputnik from the conference for publishing fake news and we have evidence on this page of all the major western newspapers publishing fake news...


    Russia does trade with the EU, but trade levels have dropped enormously because of sanctions imposed by the EU blaming Russia for the problems created in the Ukraine by the US government overthrowing the legally elected government of Ukraine.

    That violates all your morals and ideals regarding freedoms and democracy... it basically shows you are a moron and don't understand the principles you pretend to uphold and cheer for around the world, or you are a bunch of bastards who use your morality when it suits, to punish others, but you never let it get in the way of you making money.

    If I was Russia I would cancel Nord Stream 2... let the EU pay four times more for energy... it will make the EU much less competitive on the international market... there are plenty of Asian countries who want cheap piped Russian gas... And of course Russia can liquefy their gas too... it wont be as cheap as piped gas but they can still undercut any price the Americans can offer to sell it for...

    I insult because Europeans are thick as pig shit... you are being used by America to maintain their economic and political and military position in the world despite running their economy like a 2 year old would. They will collapse, and then where will you be?

    By then you might drop all your sanctions against Russia but by then they will have looked elsewhere for the things they need like food or high speed train technology.

    When the EU drops their sanctions... EU farmers will likely be the main reason this happens... the Russians will of course immediately drop their sanctions, but I am afraid those EU farmers are in for a shock because they likely think they can go in and flood the Russian market with their food, but Russian farmers are not the small weak group they were in 2013, they have grown up and gotten strong and had a market to supply... which they largely did... dropping sanctions means EU access to Russian markets but also Russian access to EU markets... I rather suspect sales of EU foodstuffs in Russia wont be the same as they were and Russian food sales in the EU might actually be very competitive with local produce because of the value of the Rouble...

    Dropping food sanctions might be the last thing EU farmers will be wanting.

    Be careful what you wish for...
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:03 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.

    But you are acting like a moron.... on this page alone is clear evidence of the original story and then almost the entire range of western news agencies from Britain and the US clearly lying about important details of the story... show me that happening on RT or Sputnik...

    There was a big conference on press freedom held in the country currently holding Assange in jail for being a journalist, that banned RT and Sputnik from the conference for publishing fake news and we have evidence on this page of all the major western newspapers publishing fake news...


    Russia does trade with the EU, but trade levels have dropped enormously because of sanctions imposed by the EU blaming Russia for the problems created in the Ukraine by the US government overthrowing the legally elected government of Ukraine.

    That violates all your morals and ideals regarding freedoms and democracy... it basically shows you are a moron and don't understand the principles you pretend to uphold and cheer for around the world, or you are a bunch of bastards who use your morality when it suits, to punish others, but you never let it get in the way of you making money.

    If I was Russia I would cancel Nord Stream 2... let the EU pay four times more for energy... it will make the EU much less competitive on the international market... there are plenty of Asian countries who want cheap piped Russian gas... And of course Russia can liquefy their gas too... it wont be as cheap as piped gas but they can still undercut any price the Americans can offer to sell it for...

    I insult because Europeans are thick as pig shit... you are being used by America to maintain their economic and political and military position in the world despite running their economy like a 2 year old would. They will collapse, and then where will you be?

    By then you might drop all your sanctions against Russia but by then they will have looked elsewhere for the things they need like food or high speed train technology.

    When the EU drops their sanctions... EU farmers will likely be the main reason this happens... the Russians will of course immediately drop their sanctions, but I am afraid those EU farmers are in for a shock because they likely think they can go in and flood the Russian market with their food, but Russian farmers are not the small weak group they were in 2013, they have grown up and gotten strong and had a market to supply... which they largely did... dropping sanctions means EU access to Russian markets but also Russian access to EU markets... I rather suspect sales of EU foodstuffs in Russia wont be the same as they were and Russian food sales in the EU might actually be very competitive with local produce because of the value of the Rouble...

    Dropping food sanctions might be the last thing EU farmers will be wanting.

    Be careful what you wish for...

    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Russia doesnt cancel NS2. Actually Russia follows all demands we have towards them. They need the money. Its a mutual beneficial thing.

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    We have a totally different life style.

    I dont know what Russians eat for breakkfast. But i eat croissant, salmon, mango, and stuff like that. The more exotic the better. I buy burger patties 200g for 20 €. Or some kind of fish where you pay 60 € for 100g.

    If Russia want enter french food market for example, they should try their rare stuff like caviar or that fish from baikal.

    Dont get me wrong Gary but i think you have not much knowledge how politics work. The world is not Teletubby land.

    Look at your own country Newzealand. Dont you see around yourself? We own Polynesia and New Caledonia. We bully countries like Vanuatu, Fiji or Kiribati till boiling point. From New Caledonia we lay claim on Vanuatu and Fijii islands and do in their sea as we please.

    Why? Because we can, thats why.

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us. This is what makes it interesting. No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:33 pm

    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    They give a perspective of the stories they release that does not favour the rich and the powerful of the west, which is not really the same as outright boldfaced lying to their audience in the example above.

    No wonder you get upset here finding everything your media tells you is bullshit designed to make you hate any Russian leader who is competent, and the Russian people who support him.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Those charges were dropped and were only brought up for political reasons. I rather doubt it would even count as a crime in France today... he had consentual sex with a woman but did not wear a condom, which she then claimed was rape... only in europe...

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Figures Putin mentioned recently suggest it is estimated that Russia has lost 50 billion dollars in trade with the EU since the sanctions started in 2014, while it is also estimated that the EU has lost about 240 billion dollars over the same time period. He also mentioned agricultural sales in exports have increased to the point where Russia has not actually lost anything... EU farmers unable to find alternative buyers for their crops were not so lucky with many going out of business or indeed committing suicide.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    Russia has made no effort to seize power or take control of Kiev like the US has... Nuland bragged about the 5 billion dollars spent to pay for a coup... she even brought cookies to the execution of democracy there.

    The west and democracy are not showering themselves in glory there... in fact they are creating a rather bad impression all round.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    I think it is amusing you think Russia wants the Ukraine... you are creating another broken country in Europe that will take many decades to fix if it ever can... enjoy having more nazis in the EU...

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    Yes, the little french poodle growls when uncle sam puts on her lead and takes her for a walk, but there is no question which end of the lead directs the walk...

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Yeah, western values are written on two ply paper sheets...

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    Good... enjoy the steroid based crap from GMO central, US of A you will soon be forced to take too...

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    What you don't realise is that real people don't like bullies, because they know if you will bully an enemy or a stranger then eventually you will bully a friend too... and that is not the definition of a friend.

    We remember that France is no friend to New Zealand... when you start a new war with Russia don't expect us to send any assistance... except perhaps to Russia.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us.

    They don't respect you. You can't even deliver a ship without permission from Washington and Brussels... you tried to interfere in the Nord Stream II pipeline because you thought you could get something more out of the deal and Germany basically told you to piss off.

    You have great delusions of grandeur... delusions of course they remain...

    No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.

    Even more reason for a good doomsday weapon to ensure all of Europe is exterminated...
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    They give a perspective of the stories they release that does not favour the rich and the powerful of the west, which is not really the same as outright boldfaced lying to their audience in the example above.

    No wonder you get upset here finding everything your media tells you is bullshit designed to make you hate any Russian leader who is competent, and the Russian people who support him.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Those charges were dropped and were only brought up for political reasons. I rather doubt it would even count as a crime in France today... he had consentual sex with a woman but did not wear a condom, which she then claimed was rape... only in europe...

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Figures Putin mentioned recently suggest it is estimated that Russia has lost 50 billion dollars in trade with the EU since the sanctions started in 2014, while it is also estimated that the EU has lost about 240 billion dollars over the same time period. He also mentioned agricultural sales in exports have increased to the point where Russia has not actually lost anything... EU farmers unable to find alternative buyers for their crops were not so lucky with many going out of business or indeed committing suicide.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    Russia has made no effort to seize power or take control of Kiev like the US has... Nuland bragged about the 5 billion dollars spent to pay for a coup... she even brought cookies to the execution of democracy there.

    The west and democracy are not showering themselves in glory there... in fact they are creating a rather bad impression all round.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    I think it is amusing you think Russia wants the Ukraine... you are creating another broken country in Europe that will take many decades to fix if it ever can... enjoy having more nazis in the EU...

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    Yes, the little french poodle growls when uncle sam puts on her lead and takes her for a walk, but there is no question which end of the lead directs the walk...

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Yeah, western values are written on two ply paper sheets...

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    Good... enjoy the steroid based crap from GMO central, US of A you will soon be forced to take too...

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    What you don't realise is that real people don't like bullies, because they know if you will bully an enemy or a stranger then eventually you will bully a friend too... and that is not the definition of a friend.

    We remember that France is no friend to New Zealand... when you start a new war with Russia don't expect us to send any assistance... except perhaps to Russia.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us.

    They don't respect you. You can't even deliver a ship without permission from Washington and Brussels... you tried to interfere in the Nord Stream II pipeline because you thought you could get something more out of the deal and Germany basically told you to piss off.

    You have great delusions of grandeur... delusions of course they remain...

    No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.

    Even more reason for a good doomsday weapon to ensure all of Europe is exterminated...

    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Because of that, the poddle comment is amusing. We kick USA out of defense. We force Germany to do the same and gave the the option, either work with us against USA or we drop our
    projects with them.

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    Your comment about Nordstream II shows just that. France supports the project nd holds a hand over it. Only because of this, Germany was able to bring it through EU.

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.
    kvs
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    Western propaganda - Page 39 Empty Western propaganda

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:36 pm

    Recall the video I posted where Putin talks about anthropogenic global warming and green energy.  Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    https://russia-insider.com/en/economics/putin-ridicules-green-energy-speech-russias-dirtiest-region/ri27453

    Note how Putin's words are taken out of context.   If you listen to his whole speech on this topic it is rather
    reasonable and balanced.   F*ckwad Ben Aris tries to make Putin sound like some anti-green and anti-enviroment
    zealot.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:46 am


    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Yeah, I could tell that when you first started posting on this forum and claimed that Putin personally poisoned the Skripals in the UK... did your media slip up there?

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    Food storage rooms are cooled but also have 1.5 percent oxygen and 1.5 percent carbon dioxide so the fruit stays fresher for longer and does not ripen too quickly... a human goes in to such a room and stays there they fall asleep and die...

    When Polish farmers put in extra crops of apples to meet the demand in Russia in the 2000s they invested a lot of money, but when the sanctions came on... lots of apples and no customers and banks demanding their money... an easy option.

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    For how long... only a matter of time...

    Is this chicken from Chernobyl... it has 5 wings... nope... its from Texas... genetically modified to have extra legs and extra wings... just like the people eating it...

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    Is that what your media told you?

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.

    Don't confuse politeness for friendship.

    Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    Yeah, what a dick...
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:14 am

    GarryB wrote:

    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Yeah, I could tell that when you first started posting on this forum and claimed that Putin personally poisoned the Skripals in the UK... did your media slip up there?

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    Food storage rooms are cooled but also have 1.5 percent oxygen and 1.5 percent carbon dioxide so the fruit stays fresher for longer and does not ripen too quickly... a human goes in to such a room and stays there they fall asleep and die...

    When Polish farmers put in extra crops of apples to meet the demand in Russia in the 2000s they invested a lot of money, but when the sanctions came on... lots of apples and no customers and banks demanding their money... an easy option.

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    For how long... only a matter of time...

    Is this chicken from Chernobyl... it has 5 wings... nope... its from Texas... genetically modified to have extra legs and extra wings... just like the people eating it...

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    Is that what your media told you?

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.

    Don't confuse politeness for friendship.

    Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    Yeah, what a dick...

    No, its not what media told me. Germany is led by a weak women. France demanded control over the pipeline. Germany accepted.

    We also forced germany to drop f35. Merkel always does as ordered by us.

    As for western farmers...polish are not western. They are russian...at least for us. I think you know what i mean. They try hard but never will be accepted as one.
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    Post  andalusia on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    andalusia wrote:

    I read somewhere that Vann7 said that Brazil and Russia were going to have a joint collaboration with a Brazilian aero company and Sukhoi to build the SU 57.  With this new right wing reactionary president in power who professes to be a fan of Trump and America; he could have sold the secrets to the Pentagon and Russian air force would be compromised.  

    Thats correct.. It was RT quick headlines ,that rotates in their main page where i read it.
    Putin offered dilma ruseff , the previous Brazilian President the blue prints and a manufacturing plant in Brazil to build SU-57 planes.  It was a huge risk.. what he was proposing , because US Could easily buy /spy and get the secrets from another or
    a right wing government betray Russia.. and it didn't took long for a right wing government
    to take power..  So Putin's ignorance and naiveness is a major danger for Russia national security.. Is a very huge blunder what he played ,and for the only reason it did not blow back
    on his face is because Brazil had no money to buy and did not accept the offer.

    But truly had She accepted the deal. .Right now The pentagon and Israel will have the blue prints and a copy of Su-57 on their hangers.. and understand every thing ,there is to know about it.. Even it was a major mistake allow India to get hands on Russia supersonic missiles Brahmos.. Which is a modified version of export version of Onyx missiles..

    The biggest blessing and curse of Russia is called Vladimir Putin..
    A blessing because he is patriotic and cares about Russia and defend Russia sovereignty.
    A Curse for his massive Ignorance , his lack of understanding how to Counter the western system.. and his total absolute passiveness with the US empire. .

    The only possible options that exist for Russia are..
    To fix their bad relations with the West are..

    1) Confront the hostilities with force.. that is declaration of war..
    2) or He can confront the hostilities with targeting the US major influence..
       by offering a atrong alternative their popular business that the world likes , and allows
       US Empire to influence the world towards their Orbit.. This is US high tech industry and
       Entertainment industry.
    3)Or he can do nothing ,and hope for time "fix things on its own". which is a complete
      foolishness.. time never fix problems.. on its own... it means to continue receiving
      endless sanctions and more proxy wars as Ukraine and Syria ..

    Putin is doing the #3 one. he is not fighting back.. He is not countering the US influence
    in the world.. He needs to look at China huawei.. How that company alone is opening the doors to China much more wider and open , that Russia could hope. Russia needs a leader with vision ,that understand ,that every nation in the world is not made on stone.. that every country without an exception can be influenced..  and the lack of leadership of Russia in popular with society business , is what is making things more difficult for Russia.. to get the respect they want..  Putin hoped that his Olympics was going to make NATO  fall in love with Russia..  No  and later he tried with Hypersonic missiles..  No   he simply don't understand the west.. how to influence them.. China is doing far better job than Russia
    influencing the west.. Even Mexico wants China to modernize their country communications.
    and Brazil ,did not rejected Chinese business either..  So is proof ,that leadership in business can be used as a weapon to influence other nations. and the more popular is the business among society ,the more the influence in that society . Russia needs an economy oriented towards Ordinary people.. Things that they will truly like to spend their hard earned money. because people can't buy Tanks.. or Nuclear reactors or stealth jets..  weapons are needed when leadership and influence fails.

    If Putin targeted American Silicon Valley business since he came to power in 2000 ,
    long time ago NATO will have been disbanded.. No one in Europe choose Americans over Russia because their shit smell better.. but because US have much better civilian business than Russia.. (no contest) for their nation development..

    if they want a car.. US have better cars..
    If they want Audio Visual system.. US have better ones..
    If they want Internet..  Only US have it..
    If they want entertainment.. US is the leader in Entertainment.
    If they want  elctronics .. US is very strong electronics..

    and to make things worse.. Americans used their politics and military power and Regime change tactics ,to get an alliance with the other most developed asian nations.. Like Japan ,South korea ,taiwan.. that leads the world in High Tech... So they control world technology with their alliances.  and Russia is mostly followed by under developed rejected nations..

    If they want to follow a nation with more future looking business. US is that country
    and Not Russia..  This is the problem with Putin's Russia.. is not a bigger economy what will make Russia a better choice ,than US.. but leadership..  The nation that leads and influence better Europe with their business ,is the one that will get Europe in their orbit.. and Europe is important , because without it.. NATO can't exist.  Cool
    So this is why Huawei is banned by Americans.. and why US wants the entire world to do the same.. because is a very influential Business.. and it will steal away the leadership of US
    in the world.. (their major influence).   So replacing the bank ,raising the interest or lowering them.. breaking banana records.. winning more olympics.. better nukes or prettier parks  , is not what will make Europe to Abandon The US orbit ,for the Russian one..
    Only leadership is what will do that.. Better business will also modernize Russia culture too..
    and that will influence Europe to finally drop ,the US system.  And this will be a positive thing for everyone.. including Americans.. citizens.. because will end the wars.. and will end NATO..will end the sanctions and trade wars.. the day Europe forms an alliance with Russia.
    and a new multi Polar world will replace it.. with a new United Nations , moved to Europe or Russia.. a new world system created.. that is more fair and more focused in business.

    Does Putin understand that the United States is not a friend of Russia? They are and enemy. Moreover, Britain has been an enemy of Russia for many centuries; when I have read history, it seems that those countries have never been on friendly terms. I think France has always been an enemy also. Since I am not Russian I think you guys would know more about the history between Russia, Great Britain and France.

    You simply cannot trust Latin American countries. A nation could have a left wing government and then transition to a right wing government and vice versa. You never sell your best military tech to any nation.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:19 am

    Last point first, they make money selling weapons... there is no value for them in not selling their best equipment, they have already sold S-400 systems to China and India and Turkey, but then they have also deployed the system around their own country in fairly large numbers, so the number of potential leaks is already enormous.

    The example of India and Turkey... if they didn't sell S-400 then those countries would have looked at alternatives.. Patriot, THAAD, or Aster... all very inferior systems that are rather more expensive, but given no other option what other choice would they have had?

    By selling them S-400 systems they get a better system and they make some money from the sales, which can be invested in upgrades and improvements, and the next generation systems.

    What Turkey and India are getting is one long range SAM system... what the west faces in Russia are multiple long, medium, short, and very short range air defence systems from several generations now, but all linked together with an enormous number of radars from small portable radars to enormous over the horizon radars that can track targets the size of paint chips in space in orbit around the planet. There is also an Air Force and an Army and a Navy linked in to that air defence system and there is a hair trigger to enough modern capable nuclear delivery systems to ruin western civilisation.

    The secret codes the Turks and Indians and Chinese get for their systems are totally unrelated to the codes the Russians will be using in peace time or time of war... they wont even be in the same alphabet I suspect... and even if they got a fresh set this week they will be different next week anyway.

    The worst case scenario is that the US learns how to make a better SAM from what they learn... big deal.

    Regarding the way Putin responds to the bullying from the west... they tried aggression and hostility... that was called the cold war and it didn't really work out for any one.

    Eventually the west will work out on its own that the country that contains the city of Leningrad and Stalingrad, though with different names now, is not a country you can bully and boss around... these economic sanctions would make the US or UK cry... does the west really think they can determine what is good behaviour from another sovereign country and then force any country they like to conform to that behaviour... especially when they don't conform to that ideal themselves?

    Eventually they might work it out... either way it makes the west look really bad when you can get information about both sides of the story, so the rest of the world... which includes most of the worlds population I might add... China and India and lots of other countries have more than western medias garbage to make their own minds up... much easier of course when the US starts swinging the stick at them too for not doing as they are told...

    The west will either work it out or fall... perhaps they see the fall coming and are panicking thinking everyone else is pushing them, when in fact they are pushing against everyone else and throwing themselves off the cliff... not too late, but I am glad they weren't friendly with Russia from the end of the Soviet Union... had they dragged them into the bitch club early enough when they were not strong enough to survive on their own they might have turned them into a carbon copy and extended this BS for another century while the gobble up the resources of that huge country...
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    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:29 am

    andalusia wrote:

    Does Putin understand that the United States is not a friend of Russia? They are and enemy.  Moreover, Britain has been an enemy of Russia for many centuries; when I have read history, it seems that those countries have never been on friendly terms.  I think France has always been an enemy also. Since I am not Russian I think you guys would know more about the history between Russia, Great Britain and France.  

    You simply cannot trust Latin American countries.  A nation could have a left wing government and then transition to a right wing government and vice versa.  You never sell your best military tech to any nation.  


    "the sons of the Great Britain"  have been enemies of everyone, every time.
    The empires have no predestined enemies and allies, they only have their own interests and whoever opposes them is the adversary, while those who can be used as instruments become their "partners" (short-term)

    If you have read enough history, you can understand that the policy of the British Empire for the rest of Europe, over the centuries, has been to undermine the dominant power in continental Europe by supporting the the neighbor competitor of this.

    England supported the Dutch against the Spanish, then the Spanish against the French , Austria, Prusia and Rusia against Napoleon, help the Ottomans against the Russian Empire, help France against the German Empire of the Kaisers and later against Hitler, and then supported Germany against the USSR in the Cold War, and now Russia
    Now, the hands of MI6 are also behind the coup d'état and support for the fascists in the crisis in Ukraine

    In Russia they forgot about this in the decade of the 90s, and neglected their military industry.but Putin has corrected the error
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:39 am

    Russians didn't forget. They just got consumed by the massive failure of their decisions and their leaders of the time. Pitied themselves for the longest time. Like a clinically depressed person. You don't see an empire commit seppuku and leave half the world hanging everyday.

    It would be negligence and criminal for the American and British establishments to NOT have taken advantage of this. They clearly weren't that.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:56 am

    It would be negligence and criminal for the American and British establishments to NOT have taken advantage of this. They clearly weren't that.

    Poor innocent bastards... they didn't want to be total censored and go completely against all their high sounding morals they spout all the time... it is just not their fault...

    Bullshit.

    They are worse than the worst criminals around, they hide in the shadows like cowards and gang up on the smallest countries they can find, they have nice high brow morals like freedom of the press and free market economy and privatisation which they use to destroy smaller countries and steal their wealth... ironically they are the countries that undermine freedom and democracy the most in this world.

    There was a chance to not repeat the bullshit of the past, they could have started out fresh, but they went back to their old tricks real fast and poor naieve Russia who actually thought there was something in western morality are not very disappointed... for many it has taken a while... ask Maria Butina... she managed to survive through till the last few years thinking Americans are good people and that Russia would be better if it was more like the west... well after several months of solitary confinement... treatment even serial child molesters don't get... I am sure she is cured...

    I am sure China will come up with some sort of alternative to western culture.

    Funny that now that the UK is leaving the EU I guess they will start using non English language options for EU business... that will isolate them from the British Empire part of the west then... I doubt Indians will want to learn too many languages just to communicate...
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:01 pm

    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more. Tried a much needed reform, the policies put forward failed, and decided it was easier to call it quits. Naive they never have been. The KGB wasn't naive - nor was the Soviet leadership of the time. But it's nice to act like it to feed the masses the victim complex. Of which you definitely traffic in. Russian's have collected as much pain as they earned and should have for their stupidity, and betrayal (I think the word applies as well). Not a betrayal to the ideology (i think that's a minor betrayal), but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat. Some allies changed sides quick to the winning side - after their own considerations. Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo. Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa. Cuba continues its miracle, to much pain for its populace, enjoying the fruit of american arrogance, for the U.S had a great opportunity then to put them out. But the U.S continues to underestimate their resolve. The American strategy does always have a good fallback - for as long as they're strong, Cuba will not prosper - serves as a good example to keep the other weaklings in the southern hemisphere from revolting. For historians it's a nice case study that continues to write pages. How long can they last?

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:47 pm

    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    See I think the real problem is the great lie of the west... most westerners think the west is a democracy and all you need is the will of the people to change things, but successive US presidents have found they can't change anything... even ones that promise to end foreign wars that make the establishment rich off tax dollars find that it is the establishment in charge and they can't do anything... that is what establishment means.

    So the problems in the west is that they worked out pretty quickly that a free fair and open society is the ideal and that is the bullshit the media and propaganda machines pump out... get them young... Disney tells us that the underdog always prevails over the strong... how many times does that rabbit defeat the hunter or the dog or the rooster or the puddy cat? Then Hollywood continues the message... western hero put in impossible position and uses brains and brawn and more and more often these days anything but a gun for his solution... but always wins in the end.

    If you listen to what the west says, it sounds great... it sounds ideal... but it is all a lie... it is to get you to drop your guard so they can sneak in and break what you have and then have you pay them to put you back together... at an enormous profit of course...

    The west doesn't have a free press and they arrest anyone who actually digs through their trailings because there are so many corpses... so many victims...

    Their problem is that the propaganda machine is talking utopia but the establishment delivers something totally different.

    Big business is in charge in the US... pharmaceutical companies hire the people who are on the government boards that decide what rules America has for legal drugs... legal drug companies can dictate to US consumers what they have to pay for the drugs they need to survive... America has the best healthcare in the world but also the most expensive.... most of the time it is healthcare companies fleecing insurance companies so insurance companies make coverage weak and expensive so many can't afford it and therefore get no healthcare at all.

    I have seen a youtube video of a woman in a car accident pleading with people not to call her an ambulance... the bone was sticking out of her leg... but she knew she couldn't afford the 2-3 grand it would cost to get her to a hospital in an ambulance... WTF is the point of being the last superpower with the best healthcare in the world but so many of your people cannot afford to get hurt or sick because it will financially cripple them.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more.

    Most Russians believed that when they gave up communism they would be welcomed into the international community, communism would be a thing of the past and they can start enjoying a better standard of life that has been denied to them all these years under communism...

    Naive... sure... criminally negligent? You think they should have kept on with communism?

    but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat.

    One of the best things about the end of the Soviet Union is the loss of those parasites... most of them jumped ship to HATO as soon as they could... scum.

    Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo.

    Yeah, proud moment all round for the west and europe there...

    Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa.

    China actively benefited from the hostility between the west and the Soviets... only now are the western countries realising what they have done... China is going to be much more of a problem than Russia ever was.

    How long can they last?

    You make it sound like they are being given options.

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    Actually beginning to think they should be using them...

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.

    No they are not... the rest of the world has tasted Chinese investment that comes without the political interference that the west provides.

    The west is going to have to more openly use force in the future in most of the developing world, which is going to offend westerners as much as it is the natives... western people are becoming more aware of what is actually happening around the world because they can actually talk to the locals and don't rely on their copy and paste local media that just copy the news feeds from the US and UK even today... when they did it 30 years ago no one here knew, but now that we get BBC and CNN etc and the stuff we see on local channels is just the same... often even using exactly the same wording you realise it is not news... it is propagnda

    Anyway I am moving all this stuff to the western propaganda thread where it belongs shortly... when it disappears... that is where it will be.
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    See I think the real problem is the great lie of the west... most westerners think the west is a democracy and all you need is the will of the people to change things, but successive US presidents have found they can't change anything... even ones that promise to end foreign wars that make the establishment rich off tax dollars find that it is the establishment in charge and they can't do anything... that is what establishment means.

    So the problems in the west is that they worked out pretty quickly that a free fair and open society is the ideal and that is the bullshit the media and propaganda machines pump out... get them young... Disney tells us that the underdog always prevails over the strong... how many times does that rabbit defeat the hunter or the dog or the rooster or the puddy cat? Then Hollywood continues the message... western hero put in impossible position and uses brains and brawn and more and more often these days anything but a gun for his solution... but always wins in the end.

    If you listen to what the west says, it sounds great... it sounds ideal... but it is all a lie... it is to get you to drop your guard so they can sneak in and break what you have and then have you pay them to put you back together... at an enormous profit of course...

    The west doesn't have a free press and they arrest anyone who actually digs through their trailings because there are so many corpses... so many victims...

    Their problem is that the propaganda machine is talking utopia but the establishment delivers something totally different.

    Big business is in charge in the US... pharmaceutical companies hire the people who are on the government boards that decide what rules America has for legal drugs... legal drug companies can dictate to US consumers what they have to pay for the drugs they need to survive... America has the best healthcare in the world but also the most expensive.... most of the time it is healthcare companies fleecing insurance companies so insurance companies make coverage weak and expensive so many can't afford it and therefore get no healthcare at all.

    I have seen a youtube video of a woman in a car accident pleading with people not to call her an ambulance... the bone was sticking out of her leg... but she knew she couldn't afford the 2-3 grand it would cost to get her to a hospital in an ambulance... WTF is the point of being the last superpower with the best healthcare in the world but so many of your people cannot afford to get hurt or sick because it will financially cripple them.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more.

    Most Russians believed that when they gave up communism they would be welcomed into the international community, communism would be a thing of the past and they can start enjoying a better standard of life that has been denied to them all these years under communism...

    Naive... sure... criminally negligent? You think they should have kept on with communism?

    but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat.

    One of the best things about the end of the Soviet Union is the loss of those parasites... most of them jumped ship to HATO as soon as they could... scum.

    Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo.

    Yeah, proud moment all round for the west and europe there...

    Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa.

    China actively benefited from the hostility between the west and the Soviets... only now are the western countries realising what they have done... China is going to be much more of a problem than Russia ever was.

    How long can they last?

    You make it sound like they are being given options.

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    Actually beginning to think they should be using them...

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.

    No they are not... the rest of the world has tasted Chinese investment that comes without the political interference that the west provides.

    The west is going to have to more openly use force in the future in most of the developing world, which is going to offend westerners as much as it is the natives... western people are becoming more aware of what is actually happening around the world because they can actually talk to the locals and don't rely on their copy and paste local media that just copy the news feeds from the US and UK even today... when they did it 30 years ago no one here knew, but now that we get BBC and CNN etc and the stuff we see on local channels is just the same... often even using exactly the same wording you realise it is not news... it is propagnda

    Anyway I am moving all this stuff to the western propaganda thread where it belongs shortly... when it disappears... that is where it will be.

    I dont understand you Gary. This anti west hate appears pathological. I hope its just bla bla and you dont mean it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:57 am

    This is the natural result of listening to the propaganda and then comparing what they say to what they actually do and realise they are no better than those they demonise... in fact they are worse.

    The propaganda sounds great, but it appears that what they are actually delivering is coming up well short.

    If the US actually delivered what it promised then they would get my full support, but in reality they are telling me what they know would be perfect but what they deliver is not.

    When you listen to them talk you think they care about people, but the truth is they do not care about anything at all except money.

    Well at least they are better than Russia or China... imagine if they were in charge... I hear you say.

    What evidence is there that either of those two countries wants to be in charge like the US does... telling everyone what to think and how to act...

    But of course I cannot criticise the west... there is no room for improvement it is perfect and cannot be changed... it is perfectly natural for the wealth to be held by a tiny percentage who use their power and their wealth to accumulate more wealth and power... until what?
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:This is the natural result of listening to the propaganda and then comparing what they say to what they actually do and realise they are no better than those they demonise... in fact they are worse.

    The propaganda sounds great, but it appears that what they are actually delivering is coming up well short.

    If the US actually delivered what it promised then they would get my full support, but in reality they are telling me what they know would be perfect but what they deliver is not.

    When you listen to them talk you think they care about people, but the truth is they do not care about anything at all except money.

    Well at least they are better than Russia or China... imagine if they were in charge... I hear you say.

    What evidence is there that either of those two countries wants to be in charge like the US does... telling everyone what to think and how to act...

    But of course I cannot criticise the west... there is no room for improvement it is perfect and cannot be changed... it is perfectly natural for the wealth to be held by a tiny percentage who use their power and their wealth to accumulate more wealth and power... until what?

    You can critisize us. You can critisize France. But you dont critisize. You wantnus dead. Burned in nuclear fire. Think about that.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:04 pm

    I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...

    I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.
    In the addition south European states (where.the people were more.similar to the inhabitants of.the Caucasus then to.the germans, Hollanders etc) are under economic.and.social.attack since at least 25 years.
    The men are educated.or brainwashed to.be useless.

    I hope that the UERSS will soon cease to exist, and we can soon restart normal lives, without having to worry that your son could be taken from you because you're not enough tolerant (in england they gave a three-year old boy to a family that brainwashed him until the point he wants to do gender reassignment surgery to become a girl.

    Moreover, a couple more things about migrant crisis, and hypocrisy of.the criminal nation.called France. After creating the prpblem.in africa in the first place, the french close their ports to the ships carring illegal.migrants and arrest people that help them cross the border to.go from Italy.to France, but give national honors to that criminal german woman.that.did the.same.thing in Italy.

    The french.president believes to be better than Napoleon, in reality he is just a puppet and at best a bad copy of emperor Heliogabalus.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:24 am

    It is the hypocracy that renders all their morality and civilised standards void.

    Gender is both biological and cultural... culture can change the gender of any individual, but only mannerisms and behaviour.

    A boy can act like a girl and a girl can act like a boy... when I was a kid there were plenty of both... we didn't burn either at the stake... we considered the girly boys as being a bit of a poof... he hung around the girls all the time so there wasn't really an issue... I never beat them up, or verbally abused them.

    The tomboys were girls we could just treat like boys... personally I liked them... they liked the things we liked and didn't play with dresses and dolls like the other girls did.

    The point is that putting a penis on a tomboy and taking the penis off a girly boy is fucking stupid... they are children and don't need sexual parts to have sexual relations.

    If you want to know your gender then that is pretty straight forward... do you have XX chromosomes or XY... they are the only two human genders that there are.

    No I am not being intolerant, I am not saying a man (adult) cannot have an adult operation so he can have adult sex with other adults of his choosing, and I am not saying a woman (adult) cannot have an adult operation so she can have adult sex with other adults of her choosing, what I am against is the genital mutilation of children because they have been socialised by one parent or the other to act a particular way.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:39 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...

    I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.
    In the addition south European states (where.the people were more.similar to the inhabitants of.the Caucasus then to.the germans, Hollanders etc) are under economic.and.social.attack since at least 25 years.
    The men are educated.or brainwashed to.be useless.

    I hope that the UERSS will soon cease to exist, and we can soon restart normal lives, without having to worry that your son could be taken from you because you're not enough tolerant (in england they gave a three-year old boy to a family that brainwashed him until the point he wants to do gender reassignment surgery to become a girl.

    Moreover, a couple more things about migrant crisis, and hypocrisy of.the criminal nation.called France. After creating the prpblem.in africa in the first place, the french close their ports to the ships carring illegal.migrants and arrest people that help them cross the border to.go from Italy.to France, but give national honors to that criminal german woman.that.did the.same.thing in Italy.

    The french.president believes to be better than Napoleon, in reality he is just a puppet and at best a bad copy of emperor Heliogabalus.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    Ever ehared about Machiavelli? France plays the grand game. Of course we want no migrants.

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    You should see the bigger picture.

    Our own coast is closed for migrants. In Italy we pushed migrants back into Italy. This accumulated more and more africans in Italy. It reached a critical mass and they elect Salvini. Salvini locked the ports.

    Exactly what want. Our actions hold Salvini in power. This german women is best what can happen to Salvini.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:23 pm

    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    Answering your own questions... and you don't understand the hate directed at France?
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    Answering your own questions... and you don't understand the hate directed at France?

    Why? The italians tried to buy our national shipping yard. It is out of the question that our national shipping yard STX is under foreign control. France nationalized the yard and cut Italy out. Italy can invest in our yard, but not own it.

    Of course an internationalist and globalist like you would love to see France throwing its national corporations under the bus for a few bucks.

    France is very protective of its key industries. I see this as a positive thing.

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:59 pm

    I started reading Machiavelli much before than you, and I still keep "Il Principe" in one of my bookshelves, thanks.

    And yes, France "f#&ked up" Italy on many occasions in the last 13 hundreds years (starting with damaging the relations between the italian peninsula and the (Eastern) Roman Empire.

    The shipyard issue is just one of the most recent.

    Btw, modern day Russophobia it's just the evolution and the consequence of the schism between Rome and Constantinople caused by the actions of french and german monarchs starting from the 8 century.

    Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

    Stupidly our population and many of the politicians believe that selling it to the french is almost the same as if it was in italian hands, since the EU is a big happy family... sure, in their dreams...

    In addition, I still do not understand why it would be beneficial for Italy to produce ships in a french shipyard. If we have so many orders I would better spend the money and enlarge an existing shipyard or build from scratch a brand new one in Italy, than give work to french people and pay taxes there. Furthermore, when Italy decided to acquire it the majority of its shares were own by Sudkorea.

    The problem for Italy is that a large percentage of the politicians are bought by other nations (and it is interesting to see how many of the italian politicians that damaged Italy received the French legion d'honneur) or non state actors (Soros paid NGOs, etc), and another big part are just useful idiots that honestly believe that the other EU nations are friendly and want the best for us.

    Basically Germans and some other nations think at their own interests first, while in Italy there is a lack of interest for the protection of strategic industrial and infrastructural assets, many of which were sold to other nations in the last 25 years.

    Actually the italian politicians that were more appreciated in EU, like Prodi or Monti, were among those with a bigger part and responsibility in the destruction or sell of italian industrial basis.

    Unfortunately the politicians that present themselves as interested in preserving Italian interests are in many cases idiots, naive or unprepared, and more often than not they damage further their cause (e.g. Salvini).

    In addition the basis of a separation of powers is not anymore a reality in Italy, and the judges and magistrates often have a strong political agenda.

    This process started in the 90s with "tangentopoli", were with the excuse of corruption they removed from power the last independent and capable politicians in Italy(especially Craxi; while it was true that there was corruption around his circles, even if not more than in other western nations, just maybe more apparent, it was for sure less corruption than after him, and this was still to a level that did not favour one or the other party in particular).

    Then a couple of years later (in 1994) came Berlusconi. He had a lot of defects, and his own actions made him vulnerable to political or judicial  blackmails, but at least he tried to protect Italian interests and managed to keep good relations with both USA and Russia, and started to try to include Russia in the western system (probably because that for Italy it was important to have another nation that could counter  "our allies").

    He was in and out several times with the centre left with the "seller of Italy" Prodi or (the guy that allowed the americans to use Italian bases to bomb Serbia in 1999) d'alema ruling the government when Berlusconi own allies managed to destroy the government from within.

    He was then removed from power for the last time in 2011, with a sort of coup d'État organised by the italian president (a role that should not have political power, but only act as a guarant of democracy, similar to the British queen, but only for 7 years) Napolitano (a former corrupted communist that took Soviet money until 1991 and American money afterwards) and probably for fear of ending in prison or in "exile" like Craxi accepted the blackmail, released power and allowed the french and americans to destroy Libia (among the rest, french people did not like fair competion on the oil market, since ENI managed to have written better contracts with Gaddafi and also because the clown Sarkozy wanted to hide that the libians gave him money for his election campaign).

    After him Monti, a theoretical economist that applied a sort of light greek cure to Italy, continuing in the destruction of the italian middle class and destroying the future of many young Italians.

    The incredibly high debt/gdp ratio of italy is due instead to many factors, including the separation of the  bank of Italy from the government control (I believe in 1979), high spending in the 80s (including paying high rents to people retiring in their early 40s) and then finally and mainly the adoption of Euro as a currency, and the austerity measures and incredibly high taxes started in the early 90s that did not allow the GDP to grow.


    Another thing that I don't like in EU is the too large political importance of small statelets like belgium and holland (that, btw during the colonial era they were responsible for horrible crimes, even worse then those of French and Brits), and of the state of Luxembourg, that is basically a modern day "financial Tortuga".

    In addition, as I said before, the taxes in Italy are unbearably high, and if you have your own firm it is practically impossible to respect all the laws, pay all the taxes and survive.

    However multinational firms operating in Italy that have financial base in Luxembourg or in other fiscal paradises, may end up paying almost no taxes in Italy, basically stealing money from the italian budget and creating unfair competition to real italian firms.

    Anyway now with the new german woman at the head of the EU commission the Germans believe they can do whatever they want. I believe it will end up as a pyrrhic victory for them. Afterall Germans are excellent tacticians, but bad strategists.

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