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    2019 Bolivian political crisis

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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:46 am

    China has the pocket books to rival the U.S in influence campaigns when in comes to the bribery of elites and supporting political organizations abroad. China just simply doesn't have the apparatus in place to carry this nor the know how. You can see them timidly playing the board. It takes time, AND A LOT practice to create the machinery the U.S has to carry these. Which is why, the more wet their feet get in these games, the better for them. That's my opinion. Lessons can be learned, mistakes can be corrected, new strategies can be deployed. Hand off approach teaches very little. Field experience is needed.

    The success of the new Argentina will be severely tied to Brazil and Lula's return, as so will Venezuela's. The new Mexican government, while finally a win in a century there, will not be able to dramatically change that country. It's almost beyond repair. No matter how much quality advice they get from Russia or Cuba to set up safeguards. Giving Evo asylum is a nice insult to the empire (which I'm sure they took note, angrily, quietly - despite playing into their designs well), but then again Trump has been insulting Mexicans even before he became president. Hell, almost the whole existence of the Western half of the United States is an insult to Mexico.

    Anyway the empire knows how big Lula being free is. Which is why they were shitting their pants about Macri getting canned - the poor Bushes - that was a bad day for them. They know about the intra-elite fighting in Brazil. Still, they'll take the raping of Argentina any day over good governance. "Fuck them - that's what we do". "At least they'll have a real mess to sort out first." "Enough time to plot and recoup".

    I won't be surprised if they try to squeeze their assets in Brazil and send a message. If push comes to shove I can see them taking Lula out - point blank. Message should be clear to the sellout elite that supports U.S interest: "Lula back in the pen or we'll do what we must". If I were them I would do the same. If Lula gets back into power, there will be a real fight for the region in their hands. Lula and clan will not forget the U.S and "like-minded comprador elites" literally carried out, in effect, 2 coups back2back in Brazil. They certainly won't forgive the U.S, even if the treacherous elites come to a peace agreement with Lula (as they always do in most cases).

    Not to mention....after all the U.S has pulled to push back the Pink tide - boy there is some bad blood there. So my take? The U.S is not gonna sit and watch Lula, the Kitcher clan, Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela start to gang up in a Pink tide 2.0 with Russia and China backing them with trade, investment and geopolitical maneuvering. Not on their watch they say... not without having their bloody say first. The empire is itself overstretched which is why it's playing dirty so blatantly. Too many battlegrounds to care about the subtleties - what matters is that the fights are won. We'll see.
    George1
    George1

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    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:05 am

    Bolivia’s interim president signs law on new presidential elections

    https://tass.com/world/1092257
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:59 pm

    I was in Peru / Bolivia in 2017. Morales was extremly unpopular in the educated classes. Our guide who ws a teacehr told us constantly how idiotic Morales is. She showed us some of his crazy prjects.

    For example placing a ugly concrete tower right next to the central cathedral

    2019 Bolivian political crisis - Page 3 Catedral_Metropolitana_Nu-Catedral_Metropolitana_Nu-20000000016285800-500x375

    She told us Morales wasted gargantuan amounts of money for his villas and paying corrupted officials. I assume what she said was right.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:59 pm

    Aristide wrote:I was in Peru / Bolivia in 2017. Morales was extremly unpopular in the educated classes. Our guide who ws a teacehr told us constantly how idiotic Morales is. She showed us some of his crazy prjects.

    For example placing a ugly concrete tower right next to the central cathedral

    2019 Bolivian political crisis - Page 3 Catedral_Metropolitana_Nu-Catedral_Metropolitana_Nu-20000000016285800-500x375

    She told us Morales wasted gargantuan amounts of money for his villas and paying corrupted officials. I assume what she said was right.

    Why should the indigenous majority in Bolivia give a flying f*k about some Catholic church. The Popes declared new world aboriginals
    to be animals without souls and thereby enabled centuries of slavery, mutilation and mass murder. I say hurray for the "commie block"
    "spoiling" some tourist's cheap photos. Maybe if Morales had the church bulldozed and then built an apartment block in its place,
    you would have something to bitch about.

    As for corruption. Wow. Some malcontent is making claims, so they must be true. That you believe in the word of a racist
    clique minority that has dominated Bolivia from the beginning says a lot about your values. But then EU-peons are basically closet
    Nazis to begin with. Every single day they affirm this in their hate spew at and treatment of Russians.

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:38 am

    If land is expensive, there will be multistory buildings, regardless of old churches.
    These r in New York & Boston, USA:
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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt on Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:18 am




    Bolivia's electoral body blocks Morales from running for Senate

    https://tass.com/world/1122711



    BOLIVIA: Blocks Morales from running for elections,

    USA: We respect Bolivia's democratic processes and our shared democratic values and traditions.




    RUSSIA: Blocks Navalny from running for elections,

    USA: Russia is a Corrupt Pariah country that is run by the Mafia.


    Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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    slasher

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    Post  slasher on Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:08 am

    Study casting doubt on Bolivian election fraud triggers controversy
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:02 am

    slasher wrote:Study casting doubt on Bolivian election fraud triggers controversy

    Funny how the OAS politician echo-chamber is calling an MIT study "unscientific". Time to get out and burn some more witches at the stake.
    Science is the work of the Devil.

    Latin America will always be pulled down into the toilet if it can't accept rules of behaviour. Just because your political opponents win the
    election does not give you the right to stage a coup. If you don't play by any rules, then you can't expect your opponents to play by
    them either.

    It is physically impossible in a real democracy for the racist Bolivian clique to win the popular vote. They failed to genocide enough of
    the aboriginals so the indigenous majority has to win under fair conditions. Accusing Morales of fraud is a transparent lie. He does not
    need any electoral fraud. And his indigenous base knows who is better for their interests. And it ain't the Washington backed
    "whiteys".
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    andalusia

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    Post  andalusia on Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:21 am

    kvs wrote:
    slasher wrote:Study casting doubt on Bolivian election fraud triggers controversy

    Funny how the OAS politician echo-chamber is calling an MIT study "unscientific".   Time to get out and burn some more witches at the stake.  
    Science is the work of the Devil.

    Latin America will always be pulled down into the toilet if it can't accept rules of behaviour.   Just because your political opponents win the
    election does not give you the right to stage a coup.   If you don't play by any rules, then you can't expect your opponents to play by
    them either.

    It is physically impossible in a real democracy for the racist Bolivian clique to win the popular vote.   They failed to genocide enough of
    the aboriginals so the indigenous majority has to win under fair conditions.   Accusing Morales of fraud is a transparent lie.   He does not
    need any electoral fraud.   And his indigenous base knows who is better for their interests.   And it ain't the Washington backed
    "whiteys".  

    Corrupt Spanish governmental Culture combined with CIA meddling has hurt Latin American prosperity and stability: https://www.globalresearch.ca/bolivia-anatomy-cia-coup/5704575
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:10 pm

    Corrupt Spanish governmental Culture combined with CIA meddling has hurt Latin American prosperity and stability

    You can't blame Spain for this... this is all about the US promoting peace and democracy in its own back yard... the fact that it was the CIA proves US responsibility...

    American politicians will tell you it is RT and Sputnik trying to make the west look bad... all they have to do is expose the truth because the truth will show the world who is bad... and it ain't just Michael Jackson... and Weird Al Yankovich.
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    andalusia

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    Post  andalusia on Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:24 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Corrupt Spanish governmental Culture combined with CIA meddling has hurt Latin American prosperity and stability

    You can't blame Spain for this... this is all about the US promoting peace and democracy in its own back yard... the fact that it was the CIA proves US responsibility...

    American politicians will tell you it is RT and Sputnik trying to make the west look bad... all they have to do is expose the truth because the truth will show the world who is bad... and it ain't just Michael Jackson... and Weird Al Yankovich.



    Latin America was a one percenter society, with little literacy/education outside the elite. Once the mother country was kicked out, warlord factions vied for power, and the basic rule was might makes right. Constitutions were only as valid as the warlord in charge. Corruption and power force were rampant. US/Canada had a more developed social structure and education. From the beginning, checks and balances prevented a culture of militaristic/power rule.

    The US had a long history of general self-government dating even prior to independence. Each of the colonies had their own representative assembly that managed some of the responsibilities of the colony, so they already had a representative democracy ingrained in their system. Upon independence, the transition to governing themselves wasn't unusual, as the various states had already had a history of it; the transition wasn't overwhelming.

    When I read about Iberian history, and even Italian, I do see common things between them and Latin America. It's important to note the instability of European nation's versus the UK too.

    I think a lot of their vulnerability to foreign manipulation can also be laid at their more controlled colonial past and (sadly) their Catholic traditions, and thus lack of a Protestant work ethic.

    Foreign interference is not responsible for most of the coups in the first half of the 1800s in Latin America. To focus on that is to deny agency among Latin American actors and their various negotiations with the problems they faced.  The US for example did not have signifigant investments in Latin America until the 1880s.

    If we are to look properly at some of the main differences between Anglo and Latin america, the two biggest differences stem from the wholly distinct legal, political and cultural tradition, particularly around property rights. Secure property rights are an integral part of industrialisation, and economic development and political stability in general. The various Latin American nations, while they have differences in the details, have inherited a system from the Iberian peninsula (be it Spain or Portugal) which was extremely different from the one inherited by any of the nations derived from the English tradition.

    I think the evidence is that the Catholic Church played a critical role in supporting the conservative factions that prevented social mobility and opposed industrialization.

    Mexico and central America involved a lot of clerical/aristocratic conservative vs mestizo-criollo liberal conflict. In the 20th century this repeated itself as socialist vs conservative conflict. The US didn't help things, but I think it was more the US poured gasoline on countries already intermittently on fire.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:56 pm

    Mexico and central America involved a lot of clerical/aristocratic conservative vs mestizo-criollo liberal conflict. In the 20th century this repeated itself as socialist vs conservative conflict. The US didn't help things, but I think it was more the US poured gasoline on countries already intermittently on fire.

    Oh please, America thinks it is their back yard and has spent its time keeping colonial europe and the Soviets out... but they don't give a shit about it and would prefer military dictatorships and death squads than anything like democracy... much easier to control a dictator...

    Latin America was a one percenter society, with little literacy/education outside the elite.

    Ironic the whole continent is going that way now... colonial powers don't change... the problem for American citizens is they don't realise they are a colony too.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:50 pm

    Evo Morales supporter Louis Arce winning in Bolivian presidential elections


    According to exit polls data, about 52.4% people voted for Arce, while 31.5% people voted for Carlos Mesa

    BUENOS AIRES, October 19. /TASS/. Louis Arce, former Minister of economy of Bolivia and a supporter of the former president Evo Morales, leads in the presidential election and appears to gather enough votes for victory in the first round, according to exit polls data, published by Unitel TV channel Monday.

    According to this data, about 52.4% people voted for Arce, while 31.5% people voted for Carlos Mesa.

    Ex-president Morales already declared Arce a winner.

    "All known data currently indicate the victory of the Movement for Socialism," he said at a press conference in Argentina’s Buenos Aires.

    Previously, the Supreme Electoral Court said that the official results would be available Monday at best and called on the people to be patient until the vote count is complete.

    https://tass.com/world/1213551
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:10 pm

    George1 wrote:

    Evo Morales supporter Louis Arce winning in Bolivian presidential elections



    According to exit polls data, about 52.4% people voted for Arce, while 31.5% people voted for Carlos Mesa

    BUENOS AIRES, October 19. /TASS/. Louis Arce, former Minister of economy of Bolivia and a supporter of the former president Evo Morales, leads in the presidential election and appears to gather enough votes for victory in the first round, according to exit polls data, published by Unitel TV channel Monday.

    According to this data, about 52.4% people voted for Arce, while 31.5% people voted for Carlos Mesa.

    Ex-president Morales already declared Arce a winner.

    "All known data currently indicate the victory of the Movement for Socialism," he said at a press conference in Argentina’s Buenos Aires.

    Previously, the Supreme Electoral Court said that the official results would be available Monday at best and called on the people to be patient until the vote count is complete.

    https://tass.com/world/1213551

    Good news. But the CIA is probably planning some smear operation. Fraud, child pron or whatever. Anything goes.
    Unlike Navalny, they would actually murder Arce to push US "national interests".

    BTW, upthread someone said Navalny is not allowed to participate in the presidential vote. That is not true. He couldn't gather the required 2 million signatures.
    If he was the "head of the Russian opposition" it would have been easy to do this. But he is and always has been a fringe kook who pisses on the Russian people
    and expects to get their vote.


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