2019 Bolivian political crisis

The resident Balkanoid clown thinks that Bolivia will be entering some age of prosperity because a "commie" got removed.
Like Ukraine, right?

kvs wrote:The resident Balkanoid clown thinks that Bolivia will be entering some age of prosperity because a "commie" got removed.
Like Ukraine, right?

Resident Balkanoid doesn't give 2 sh*ts about prosperity of Bolivia, it's on the other end of the planet

Balkanoid was just pointing out that various commies would have suffered less coups if they managed to at least once deliver on what they advertise

Balkanoid was just pointing out that various commies would have suffered less coups if they managed to at least once deliver on what they advertise

He was delivering on what he was advertised... that is why he had to be removed by force... or do you think the US gives a shit about the bolivian people and was trying to save them from growth and development... things that are considered bad in the west and are so carefully avoided...

The freedom and democracy loving west crush another country solidly on its path to both of those things... can't have some third world shit hole not needing quantitative easing and austerity measures like the west does... bad for the image... not that it really matters because image is part of the machine... the western media is the guy 10m in front of the Queen painting everything... British Royalty think the world smells of fresh paint.

Resident Balkanoid doesn't give 2 sh*ts about prosperity of Bolivia, it's on the other end of the planet

So if you don't give a shit about them why are you celebrating the US destroying them like they fucked up your country?

Bolivia is in the shit for battery components and chemicals, Serbia was because of ties with Russia.... all very good solid reasons to turn millions of peoples lives up side down... not to mention the actual slaughter and destruction in places they don't care about... just like you don't care... this report is live from the other side of the planet.... our media talks about Russian Hacking of the DNC servers like it was a proven fact... what chance could we have to get anything like the truth from our TV sets?

Would Australia, the US deputy sheriff, allow a socialist Maori run government in NZ? If more aborigines were in Australia to win elections, would Canberra allow a territory/state to be ruled by them?

So many levels of stupid there...

Who gives a fuck what Australia think or do... they have no more right to tell us anything than Mexico or Brazil does.

Australia simply does not have the military or political capability to tell us what to do.

And it wouldn't need to be a Maori government... it could be any government that does not follow their sell your own country out agenda and they could be Fascist or Socialist or anything in between... the word communist will be used and has no meaning in either context but that wont stop them using it... just like for a while the word of choice was terrorist... but even then there are moderate terrorists and bad terrorists... we define which is which...

If more aborigines were in Australia to win elections, would Canberra allow a territory/state to be ruled by them?

Hahahaha... that ship has sailed... when the first white european settlers arrived in New Zealand the Maori owned and ran all the businesses and owned all the land and the new settlers were peasants in their own new free country... so they basically used laws to steal land directly from the maori and pinched or destroyed their businesses and so today while they don't live on reservations... they do tend to have the highest representation in the prison system and lower income homes and schools...

The question you should be asking is not if this is right or wrong... it is clearly wrong... the west should have no say in the internal processes of another country... just imagine if someone studied all the activities of the US and her bitches who get up to this sort of shit and tried it out in the good old US of A... it wont stop them... they wont learn from the experience because they are dumb as pig shit and getting dumber, but at least it could occupy their time so they spend less time and effort doing it to others.

GarryB wrote: Because they are ruthless butchers that make the mafia look civilised... some guy gets elected talking about helping the people and he has a car accident...

Naturally. CIA was taught the tricks of the trade by British Intelligence, who are controlled by the ruthless House of Windsor.

The thing is, in 3rd world countries bureaucrats, politicians, military, judiciary are all corrupt. So it's very easy for CIA to penetrate these countries.

Notice CIA regularly fails in Russia and China because in these countries corruption is low and there are mechanisms in place to tackle foreign interference.

This is where Russia has to be careful. While US Intel might not be able to infiltrate inside Russia they can very easily target third world countries and compel them to become Russophobic.

I suspect the truth is something a bit different... The CIA is clearly against the Russians and Chinese, so if you make a deal and receive money from a western person who might or might not be CIA if you are Chinese or Russian you know that this is working against the interests of your country, while many naive politicians and government officials in the west actually think the CIA are the good guys... but only if they have not worked with them before I suspect.

Expect them to get more ruthless and nasty as time goes by...

GarryB wrote:I suspect the truth is something a bit different... The CIA is clearly against the Russians and Chinese, so if you make a deal and receive money from a western person who might or might not be CIA if you are Chinese or Russian you know that this is working against the interests of your country, while many naive politicians and government officials in the west actually think the CIA are the good guys... but only if they have not worked with them before I suspect.

My point was about the CIA infiltrating third world countries and installing their own puppet government. It's easy because third world countries are extremely corrupt. Then the CIA uses these countries against Russia. They have done that to BRICS already. Brazil, India, South Africa are all being run by individuals backed by CIA, MI5 and Zionists.

GarryB wrote: just imagine if someone studied all the activities of the US and her bitches who get up to this sort of shit and tried it out in the good old US of A... it wont stop them

That's true but no country has tried this on the US or its allies. They just don't have the capability. They fear U.S retaliation.

My point was about the CIA infiltrating third world countries and installing their own puppet government.

It is only the same thing that European colonial powers have been doing for the last 3-4 centuries. The US demanding regime change is not new really, but what is new is now they do it out in the open... a sort of twist in the knife because before you could pretend it was the will of the people, but when Nuland pops up and says we spent 5 billion to turn the Ukraine into an economic and political and military shithole, then you can't claim soverignty in this situation... it was a plot by an external power that ruined their country, yet they continue to blame Russia for it... either for creating the situation where it would work or for not stopping it like they should have. Good riddance in my opinion... lots of Ukrainians have suffered and continue to suffer, but in terms of the situation for Russia thing are actually pretty good.
They got the Crimea back without having to kill anyone, they got ownership of their naval facilities in the Crimea basically given to them... and after some serious hardship and problems they are now over their addiction to Ukrainian engines and aircraft, with replacements beginning to enter service that are better than the models they are replacing and all Russian made... The Ukraine on the other hand has seriously suffered... it lost its biggest market, most of its products don't sell any where else, and the US and the EU wont fix that because what they produce is effectively competition for their own production capacity... their economy is in the toilet and their workforce is migrating west... they could be called greater albania part two...

It's easy because third world countries are extremely corrupt.

Yeah, I disagree... the US is vastly more corrupt than any other country on the planet... it is embedded into the system... you can buy politicians quite openly with donations... sure, there is corruption in third world countries but it is not as pervasive as in the US... where billionaires can have underage girl islands where they fly their friends to have sex with children... human nature is human nature... in the third world there will be the same thing but on a smaller and less organised scale.

They have done that to BRICS already. Brazil, India, South Africa are all being run by individuals backed by CIA, MI5 and Zionists.

There would not be a BRICS if that were true... the fact is that even pro western leaders in those countries realise that BRICS is a good idea for their countries and I doubt they will be convinced by the US to leave.

That's true but no country has tried this on the US or its allies. They just don't have the capability. They fear U.S retaliation.

Has not tried it yet... perhaps one of those crazy Ukrainian billionaires might decide to get some revenge for what America has done to the Ukraine... they have links all through the democrat party... and they have a motive and of course if revealed the stupid Americans will see Russian names and think the Russians did it... why not... the Ukrainians leave poison in Salsbury and Russia gets the blame... it was likely supported by British and American intel groups just to frame Russia....[/quote]

GarryB wrote:There would not be a BRICS if that were true...

The Western intention is not to dismantle BRICS. Rather to slave it. Currently the heads of state of Brazil, India and South Africa are western trojans. Each one of these guys - Bolsonaro, Modi, Ramaphosa were installed by US,UK and Israel.

GarryB wrote:the fact is that even pro western leaders in those countries realise that BRICS is a good idea for their countries

Why would you say that ? Pro western leaders of India, Brazil, South Africa are controlled by the West.

The Western intention is not to dismantle BRICS. Rather to slave it. Currently the heads of state of Brazil, India and South Africa are western trojans. Each one of these guys - Bolsonaro, Modi, Ramaphosa were installed by US,UK and Israel.

See... that is the mistake you are making... this isn't about countries... it is about family and about money... when the US became powerful and Israel was created they were not destroyed... they were power bases that money and family followed and supported and made a lot more money out of...

As the UK destroys itself... first with brexit, and then with all the bullshit that will follow including independence issues all the rich families and power families (which of course is the same thing) will take an extended holiday... but where do you go?

The EU itself is stumbling with so many poor members the movement of people to find work and money has serious effects on the countries... both those needing to cope with a lot more people and those coping with all their brains and talent leaving... not to mention foreign imports from Africa and elsewhere...

The US itself is in turmoil... not helped by their inability to communicate and cooperate on things of mutual interest... when Trump leaves office... either this election or the next, you can bet the Democrats will want to make serious law changes regarding firearms... an assault rifle ban most likely... and they will get the civil war they seem so keen on having... and the rich there will have to choose to dig in and fortify themselves or run to safer places.

The worst thing you can say about Russia is that it has lost some easy money through sanctions... but in my opinion that is a good thing for Russia because they have been forced to do things for themselves they should have always been doing, and after the loss of the eastern europe market, they haven't really worked hard to find markets further afield to replace them... work in Africa and central and south america and asia will pay them back 1000x because these are trade partners that will treat Russia with respect and expect respect in return, but it wont try to control Russia or steal its assets or make it conform to its rules and morals like the west does with everyone they trade with.

Why would you say that ? Pro western leaders of India, Brazil, South Africa are controlled by the West.

Because they recognise the benefits for their own countries in the structure, and the economic and political benefits from being part of an organisation that includes over 3 billion people but does not include Europe or the US.

They could just as easily claim BRICS is a communist terrorist organisation designed to support terrorism in Syria and Iran by not helping the west in the world and actually acting against the west by creating bad in the world.

When they took power they could have done what tRump has done and basically rip up all the agreements of the previous government and then sign some new ones of their own with the US and EU... but they didn't... look at what trump did to Obamacare...

GarryB wrote:

Yes Garry I know that.  My point is how can a country develop a defensive strategy to detect and locate undercover CIA agents and prevent them from carrying out these subversive missions?  I mean there has to be a defense against it.  Why haven't more countries studied what the CIA does to overthrow governments and to develop a defense against it?

You are not seeing the whole picture... even if a central or south american country could eliminate the CIA... they would get called all the nasty names under the sun and sanctions will be imposed and then the current leader of the US will declare that country in need of US direct assistance via the USMC.

There has to be an economic alternative to the US or Europe... the Monroe doctrine in theory was supposed to protect C and S America from the colonial powers of europe, but in effect it isolated them to the colonial power of the US instead... which at best is no better and at worst much worse.

Russia and China and hopefully India and South Africa and Brazil are starting a movement that might create a more fair colonial power... an economic power a country could turn to to allow growth and development without having to let in the multinationals to kill the people and steal the resources... you know... what the west has been claiming it was trying to do all these years yet for some strange reason failing... of course it was those silly third world countries and their stupid ideas and not adopting proper western values and culture... that is why they are so poor.... not because it was all a crock of shit and really what the west was doing was replacing a domestic slave labour force that worked for minimum wage and had no workers right by not hiring western people, but poor people in third world countries.

Their problem is that this has changed western countries from industrialisation and production, to banking and services... but with no production and industry at home they don't have customers who can afford their services so it is all collapsing in on itself.

Previously history and news was written by the west and they made themselves the good guy, but with the internet anyone can tell their side, so you hear from people in Iran and they are not baby eating monsters that we can't relate to... they are just normal people trying to live a normal life and they keep getting screwed by people we voted in to power.

Does Russia have capable counterintelligence capabilities to counter it?   Is it because these countries are poor and have limited resources and capabilities?

Russia doens't have to actively counter them... they just need to stay separate and not join up with the west before it destroys itself.... China also needs to avoid the tentacles of western corruption and remain a separate entity that these small countries can deal with... even if the US has a shitty fit and bans all commerce with Bolivia or whatever country China and Russia and India and Brazil and South Africa between them should be able to provide all the needs and supply enough customers to that country to get away with not needing to trade with anyone else.

Hopefully BRICS becomes an organisation that does not impose sanctions except in response to sanctions, that does not block trade to any country no matter what but does not cooperate with any country that does impose sanctions on other countries.

That means if the US and EU want to trade with BRICS they need to drop all their sanctions against everyone.

Russia and China are happy to trade with the US and EU but not if those countries are going to put sanctions on other countries and even use sanctions against friendly countries to force them to not trade with some countries.

The US and the west dominate international trade and international organisations with significant power and they are using them to give themselves an economic and political advantage... it has to stop or alternatives they can't abuse will be created and their power will be bypassed... and they will diminish.

It is sickening reading about the CIA carrying out these missions in all these countries and they basically get away without any opposition.

One of the lecturers I had at university was in the CIA... quite high up in fact, and from the stories he told... it was quite sickening.

When a US company was going somewhere in central and south america they would approach them to do some spying... you know... be a patriot... you are helping your country all that shit (his words not mine). If they got caught they left them high and dry... usually their company had to make a few payments locally to get them out of trouble.

I remember reading a book by a guy from Russia and he talked about what a shock the 1990s were... he said he dealt with lots of hardline communists in his time during the cold war, but he said... at least they had rules they had to follow... the criminals had no such limitations and could do anything and were much more frightening... ironic isn't it... today such criminals are called entrepreneurs and are respected in the west... as opposed to the KGB and FSB who are considered the bad guys in the same ironic way the CIA are considered the good guys... I blame Disney teaching everyone that the underdog is the good guy and should always win... so we get all powerful always on top bunny rabbits and tweety birds, and the hunters and cats always lose... so removed from reality it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

The CIA doesn't always win and more and more often their criminal activities are exposed, but then they are not alone... French special forces murder people all round the world... German and British special forces start civil wars... many Americans claim the 20th century was the American century... well the 21st C is for the rest of us with China and Russia breaking that western monopoly they have so abused and corrupted... and it was only so a 1% minority within the western world can get super rich... the rest is not doing that well...

I didn't know this about French special forces. Pretty surprised that German special forces have done this in the past; I thought that Germany was a neutral country. I still think a country should improve their military (special forces) to counter them.

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote: Because they are ruthless butchers that make the mafia look civilised... some guy gets elected talking about helping the people and he has a car accident...

Naturally. CIA was taught the tricks of the trade by British Intelligence, who are controlled by the ruthless House of Windsor.

The thing is, in 3rd world countries bureaucrats, politicians, military, judiciary are all corrupt. So it's very easy for CIA to penetrate these countries.

Notice CIA regularly fails in Russia and China because in these countries corruption is low and there are mechanisms in place to tackle foreign interference.

This is where Russia has to be careful. While US Intel might not be able to infiltrate inside Russia they can very easily target third world countries and compel them to become Russophobic.

This is a good answer jhelb. I was wonder why the CIA is successful at starting coups. I asked this question earlier: "Why is the CIA so successful at starting revolution and instability in foreign countries? Is it that Third world countries lack good counterintelligence to counter CIA manipulations? Moreover, does Russia have good counterintelligence to prevent the CIA from doing the same thing?

If countries know the US does this why don't they do a better job of preparing their intelligence agencies and political advisors for this?

I am not knowledgeable about the workings of intelligence agencies but I hope that any people on this forum can explain to me the tactics of the CIA and how they are able to successfully manipulate and instigate coups in other countries."

These Third Word countries lack a tradition of stable democratic institutions and rule of law and are easily infiltrated by an outside power. I am shocked that countries like Brazil and South Africa would fall victim to this. I thought both countries had stronger institutions especially South Africa.

GarryB wrote:and they will get the civil war they seem so keen on having

Unlikely. The US has been carrying out these antics since the end of WW-II. Did they even face the prospect of a civil war ? Never.

andalusia wrote:If countries know the US does this why don't they do a better job of preparing their intelligence agencies and political advisors for this?

The US works in tandem with its Anglo-Saxon partners (think 5 eyes). US government already received a ton of information about how each nation works, their culture, their strengths, weaknesses from the Brits and a few other European nations who between themselves had colonized 90% of the world.

Once European colonization ended Asia and Africa were reduced to corrupt, third world shitholes. Whenever countries in Asia, Africa elected a capable, forthright leader he was immediately bumped off by the West and replaced with a corrupt, dishonest crook who would not only help Western countries to plunder his country's resources but also allow Western companies to completely flood the local market with their goods and services.

Poor, illiterate, poverty stricken people like Africans, Hindus, Buddhists, other pagan groups are prone to corruption. So they easily fall prey to Western governments/agencies.

The only exception was China that fought back against Western imperialism (Japan too but to a lesser extent). They waged a war against corruption thereby making it impossible for Western governments to bribe corrupt bureaucrats, judges and politicians. Ergo, Western governments have not been able to penetrate Chinese society, government like the way they have penetrated African, Asian and Latin American countries.

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:and they will get the civil war they seem so keen on having

Unlikely. The US has been carrying out these antics since the end of WW-II. Did they even face the prospect of a civil war ? Never.

andalusia wrote:If countries know the US does this why don't they do a better job of preparing their intelligence agencies and political advisors for this?

The US works in tandem with its Anglo-Saxon partners (think 5 eyes). US government already received a ton of information about how each nation works, their culture, their strengths, weaknesses from the Brits and a few other European nations who between themselves had colonized 90% of the world.

Once European colonization ended Asia and Africa were reduced to corrupt, third world shitholes. Whenever countries in Asia, Africa elected a capable, forthright leader he was immediately bumped off by the West and replaced with a corrupt, dishonest crook who would not only help Western countries to plunder his country's resources but also allow Western companies to completely flood the local market with their goods and services.

Poor, illiterate, poverty stricken people like Africans, Hindus, Buddhists, other pagan groups are prone to corruption. So they easily fall prey to Western governments/agencies.

The only exception was China that fought back against Western imperialism (Japan too but to a lesser extent). They waged a war against corruption thereby making it impossible for Western governments to bribe corrupt bureaucrats, judges and politicians.  Ergo, Western governments have not been able to penetrate Chinese society, government like the way they have penetrated African, Asian and Latin American countries.

Like your explanation. That is why it is so phony when Americans say the troops are fighting to protect them or they are fighting for freedom. Since your are from Belarus, you guys from the USSR were demonized. Is it possible for Third World countries to fight the corrupt influences in their countries? What is your perception of the belief that Americans are always fighting for freedom in your country and in Russia?

https://jamestown.org/program/kremlin-plans-for-long-term-zero-sum-game-in-global-standoff-with-washington/

Even if Russia had 5 CBGs, Bolivia coup would still happen.

Tsavo Lion wrote:https://jamestown.org/program/kremlin-plans-for-long-term-zero-sum-game-in-global-standoff-with-washington/

Even if Russia had 5 CBGs, Bolivia coup would still happen.

Russia never meddled in Bolivia to install Morales. But Washington definitely pulled its decades long tricks of using local right-wing
nutjobs to stage street theater mob rule. So Russia is not the party playing the imperial game. And this game is getting harder
for the yanquis since they are losing hearts and minds around the world. The same tired shtick of right-wing juntas and death squads
is not some recipe for perpetual success.

Funny how the trend in the USA is towards the left (albeit the wrong kind of left) but it still tapping into the fascist Latin American
cliques to stage regime change. The fact is that those cliques are relics of the past and they cannot hold onto power.

andalusia wrote: Is it possible for Third World countries to fight the corrupt influences in their countries?

Already explained that part in my above post. Third World countries are corrupt to the core, they lack the wealth, talent and desire to fight western influences. In fact a CIA operative said in an interview a few years ago that they bumped several leaders, scientists from Third World countries. He gave the example of an ex Indian PM and scientists who were eliminated by the CIA.

andalusia wrote:What is your perception of the belief that Americans are always fighting for freedom in your country and in Russia?

I trust them only as far as I can throw them.

I was wonder why the CIA is successful at starting coups.

For every government there are several opposition groups... sometimes the difference between the group in power and the group in opposition is money, or the people.

When the majority of people are poor then when their politicians try to win votes they tell all the usual lies, but different political parties have different policies... all the pro west pro capitalism pro big business groups say we need to support big business... once they are earning big money they will hire people and when more people earn more money the money from the big wealthy people will trickle down to everyone and we all get richer through business.

Problem is that rich people are tighter than poor people... poor people donate more money and time to charity and local needs than the rich do.

There is no trickle down... big business will employ more people if they are cheap... otherwise the workforce is moved overseas, and all that money that is supposed to trickle down goes into swiss bank accounts and accountants to make sure they pay no tax in any country they operate in.

These people represent the 1% and are only interested in themselves except at election time when they use their money to buy rentamobs to pretend to be popular or to instigate violence at the opposition rallys.

Look at Bolivia... you either bribe with promises of money and a good life for you and your family or you make the same offer to the other side to kill or injure their opponents... when one doesn't work try the other. But it takes money.

If countries know the US does this why don't they do a better job of preparing their intelligence agencies and political advisors for this?

What are they going to do? Who didn't know Guano was a US agent in Venezuela? What could they do about it anyway?

Once the thugs are paid they tend to do their jobs... and then they will probably disappear because they don't want loose ends of course...

I am shocked that countries like Brazil and South Africa would fall victim to this. I thought both countries had stronger institutions especially South Africa.

Any body can rig an election like in Brazil, or fund a party that makes all the promises in the world to fix everything... Americans are experts in the promise... it is the delivery where they fall over. I doubt the CIA has much sway in South Africa... you can bribe a few officials but their general anti black stance in the world suggests the US is not going to be very much of interest there.

Unlikely. The US has been carrying out these antics since the end of WW-II. Did they even face the prospect of a civil war ? Never.

They have evolved into two different species that hate each other and refuse to talk or listen to the other side... everything the other side says is without merit and they are against it no matter what... sounds like they already have a civil war...

The US works in tandem with its Anglo-Saxon partners (think 5 eyes). US government already received a ton of information about how each nation works, their culture, their strengths, weaknesses from the Brits and a few other European nations who between themselves had colonized 90% of the world.

There collection capacity would make Nazi Germany so so jealous, but their ability to process and form information out of the data is ridiculously pathetic... Saddam has WMDs for instance... they colonised the world but they never really understood the people they enslaved and certainly fear a reversal of their emmigration over the last few centuries as noted by their reaction to the recent waves of immigration to europe.

Poor, illiterate, poverty stricken people like Africans, Hindus, Buddhists, other pagan groups are prone to corruption. So they easily fall prey to Western governments/agencies.

One of the things that Morales has done while in power this last decade or so is reduce illiteracy in Bolivia to the lowest level it has ever been in that country.

I bet you a large sum of money if you introduced reading and writing classes in US prisons you would see a lot less repeat offending... most of those guys were failed by the education system so they had little to no chance of succeeding in society... crime was their obvious and sometimes only option.

The only exception was China that fought back against Western imperialism (Japan too but to a lesser extent). They waged a war against corruption thereby making it impossible for Western governments to bribe corrupt bureaucrats, judges and politicians. Ergo, Western governments have not been able to penetrate Chinese society, government like the way they have penetrated African, Asian and Latin American countries.

Actually you would be surprised regarding some Asian countries and their performance...

What is your perception of the belief that Americans are always fighting for freedom in your country and in Russia?

Look at where US troops are right now and who they are shooting and and who is shooting at them. You could make a list of all the big companies that they could be fighting for, but the freedom of the American people wont be on a single list anywhere...

Even if Russia had 5 CBGs, Bolivia coup would still happen.

Of course... just like South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent states right now despite the US having 13 carrier groups and not to mention the same or more USMC carrier groups as well for landing forces...

Bolivia is not communist and Morales was democratically elected so he probably didn't think there would be a problem with the US and the CIA... but just like Saddam declaring that he would no longer use US dollars for oil sales and that the middle east should develop a new unified currency for oil trading, he threatened to start using lithium to make his own batteries instead of exporting the raw material and have some western company make all the money... Gaddafi also declared he was no longer going to use the US dollar for oil and Assad said something similar leading to the US to attack them all... how strange.... nothing at all to do with democracy or peace of communism and everything to do with US dollars...

Russia never meddled in Bolivia to install Morales. But Washington definitely pulled its decades long tricks of using local right-wing
nutjobs to stage street theater mob rule. So Russia is not the party playing the imperial game.

And that is something critical to think about.... the US is playing this game with Russia occasionally countering them when it is in their interests to do so... like protecting the Crimea and letting them decide rather than just passively let the US ruin the region with a coup in the Ukraine. Or Russia helping Assad deal with ISIS... a problem the US pretty much created to deal with Assad.

The US has been playing this imperial game and it is bloody useless at it... recently it has done more harm to itself than to any other party and countries like China and Russia and Iran and Syria are benefiting from Americas incompetence and stupidity and it is not just Trump... Bush and Obama set many of these things in motion too... but history will likely blame Trump for it all... who cares though... I know I don't.

Americas name is becoming dirt, just like in the 1990s democracy and freedom became dirty words in Russia and eastern europe... the freedom to be poor and to vote in one useless politician or the one in the pocket of big business with the instructions to make them richer at any expense.

GarryB wrote:Actually you would be surprised regarding some Asian countries and their performance...

Via-a-vis what ? Fighting western influence on their soil ? Hardly any, except for China.

The leaders of almost all the other Asian countries (with odd exceptions like Iran or Syria) are controlled by the US, UK and Zionists.

Russia never meddled in Bolivia to install Morales.

true, just like with Alliende in Chile. But if she had an adequate VMF then & now, as some would argue, she could attempt to protect them from regime change. However, their remoteness &, in the case of Bolivia, landlocked location, wouldn't make the attempt successful. Afghanistan is a case in point- the USSR couldn't be stopped by the USN in 1979 even if they wanted to; the Talibs were kicked out of Kabul in 2002, but now it's under siege, with US still conducting airstrikes.
Likewise, if China &/ Russia decided to change regimes in Mongolia or Kazakhstan (& other Stans), or even in Iran, Pakistan & NK, the USN wouldn't be able to prevent/reverse it.

he threatened to start using lithium to make his own batteries ...

https://www.energy-storage.news/news/bolivia-in-push-to-become-global-battery-industrial-hotspot

The US would not allow another Central African Republic in its own backyard. It was the easiest hostile regime to overthrow at this point in time & they did it. "The USA intervenes and will continue to intervene into other countries' affairs. Leftist leaders of Latin American countries act is if they live on the Moon, rather than in USA's backyard. They need to learn to adapt themselves to circumstances. The USA will use any reason for an attack,".. https://www.pravdareport.com/world/144056-bolivia/

..the US having 13 carrier groups..

no, now only 11. The USS Ford & all others on the E. Coast r in repair/trials & still non-deployable, as a few CVNs were transferred to the W. Coast.

..ISIS... a problem the US pretty much created to deal with Assad.

no, it resulted from the ill-fated Iraq occupation & was then tacitly used against Syria.

https://russia-insider.com/en/bolivias-self-declared-interim-president-believes-indians-are-satanic-shouldnt-be-allowed-cities

People do not know the history of Bolivia. The country was run by a "white" clique for most of its history, repressing the indigenous
majority until basically Morales came on the scene. This "white" clique was and remains brutal and racist. In my view they are
scum and this is not a case of victims becoming victimizers. These scum have ruled ever since the Spanish conquista. They have always
been the victimizers.

Interesting how the "leftist" US "progressives" get into bed with racist white filth when it comes to securing the colonies and the
spice flow. The rest of the time they are engaged in one enormous collective circle-jerk virtue signalling how whites have to
disappear and how non-whites cannot be racist. I guess these phony US leftists pretend that the "whites" in Bolivia are a minority
like the Hispanics in the USA and thus can do no wrong...

Very much replicated everywhere, though the figures are often different... in South Africa, the whites justified having to tell the blacks what to do because they are just dumb savages and don't have the civilisation that the whites do... sounds like Bolivia is the same... the damn natives are not christian and therefore can't be trusted with power or money... in Fiji the problem for the British was that the damn natives wouldn't work a full day and a full working week... they would work out how much money they needed and that is how long they would work and then they would bugger off home.

The British solution was to import tens of thousands of ethnic Indians... from India... to do the work. When the British left they left the Indians in Fiji so you have a bunch of imported foreigners that work in all the important jobs throughout the government and the natives... whose country it is, have not money and no power within their own society and country.

The number of countries around the world they have screwed up is appalling, but they will claim they made the place civilised... democracy and freedom be damned.

There is the myth of the noble savage... living as one with nature and respecting the balance... in actual fact there are very few human groups that don't destroy nature simply as their numbers grow and they expand. The other myth of course is that the natives are savages and don't understand the value of money and property... normally a pretext to save them from themselves by taking it from them because they don't understand it fully.

BIG L to both Russia and China. Cuba can only do so much with their assets on the ground.

Where is the UN Security Council Meeting being called by Russia/China to discuss the usurpation of power and destruction of democracy in Bolivia? Zip.

Where is the political show to make it loud and clear to the world that such blatant coups are neither acceptable nor will they be tolerated in allied countries? Zip.

Sanctions? Is this a joke?

Where is the non-recognition of Russia of the interim officials who are consolidating the coup? Zip.

Here's what's going down. Russian/Chinese strategist are advising, at least some of them, the ones that usually win the presidents vote almost all the time: CAUTION and Restraint.

Why? Afraid of direct confrontation with the empire on a turf these two powers assess they're incapable of effectively achieving their goals.

"Look it's better if we don't upset the incoming authorities, the empire may let us eat some breadcrumbs after they're done eating the sandwitch." "Moreover, we wouldn't want to upset them so they cancel our current deals - even though there is zero guarantee they won't - whether by dismantling them brutally or by dragging their feet" "We'll have to settle for now, until the Cubans, along with the new Argentinian clan can work their magic in the next 5-6 years - if there is any horse left to root for that is" "What's more, we can't be seen as partisan and interfering in their internal affairs - so that's a bonus".

The empire will take that any day. Message sent: Neither Russia nor China can save you. Toe the line or else. Elites in the region: "We'll toe the line boss".

The empire is sitting pretty watching at the two weaklings debate their options. In their mind; "if you're aren't willing to get dirty like us, you don't deserve the throne (or prize as in this case - Bolivia's lithium, trade, and chessboard piece)". No matter how much China thinks their hands-off approach is all otherworldly wise and "win-win", sooner or later they'll have to engage in the zero-sum game. Dragged there kicking or screaming - doesn't matter. The empire is fully intent on making them play the zero sum game and they have the power to force them. The question is, when, eventually, they decide (their sovereign right) to actually start playing the game; who else besides Russia (who's playing their own parallel game), do they have on the board? Waiting for the empire to implode by themselves is a lengthy prediction process - it's a given it will implode as all empires do, the timing however, that's like winning a lottery ticket. Meanwhile the empire is intent on closing you off of options for trade expansion and setting minefields everywhere you go. It's all great for China now, until they hit that growth cap. Real desperation then. You can't wait for that point in time to understand the importance of the current chess moves, which, while small, do pile up and have long term strategic impact.

This is elementary.

Meanwhile, in other news, the top leadership of MAS is out of the country, some 20+ of them and those that remain will be picked off by a new kangaroo court with a paid asset judge just recently appointed. In essence, they're making their way into repeating the Honduras playbook, by legitimizing the coup with an election, after the opposition aka MAS (most popular in the country) is in effect dismantled and disorganized beyond repair. Any lessons from the Honduran coup? Clearly not. The Cubans have prioritized, Venezuela and the oil (important for their survival). Pretty fine job after all the criticism (even from the new enlightened Russians...pffft). After almost 20 years, there are a lot of things Chavez did right and a lot of advice well taken. More so considering the dual system of governance that these countries imported from he U.S - so open to exploitation, in tatters now of course, as it's meant to be when the empire has a hissy fit. Monumental, bitter, triumph. They could be 90's Russia by now (like before Chavez).

Anyway the troublemakers needed to destabilize the coup plotters and their clique in Bolivia will be picked off one by one, just like in the days of Operation Condor. Some by intimidation, some by brute force (including death). The untouchables within them, delegitimized and jailed by a kangoroo court. The U.S prepared for this very well.

Evo end up being more chicken than hawk too - bailing out quick after all his blabber. Made the mistake of not cleaning the military (a minefield obviously after centuries of penetration and weak indoctrination - easily corruptible) and decided to play the political game with the opposition - FAIL. Fidel would spit in disgust in his grave - after all the advice in the world....but at least like Zelaya or Correa, he's not dead. Definitely not a Lula (who could of ran). Evo may be useful still, to plot for a successor if the empire makes the mistake of not cleaning house 100%. But the empire is clearly intent on not making that mistake. This is an area where Russia and China, despite being the pussies that they're, can still have a useful role to play - where political pressure and theatrics at the international level play a role - if done in unified fashion with like minded allies - and there are like minded allies - they just lack TOP leadership.

It will not go smoothly like in Brazil where there's elite intra-fighting which is why Lula is currently free. The crazies in Brazil have to be really stupid to hate the working people so damn much that they would get in bed and become a slut to an economic rival (which the U.S is), just so they can piss off on them and rape them a bit more....

That is until some elites start seeing bank accounts shrink and start making the other sellout elites in unaffected businesses listen or else (war)....  Kinda funny the direct correlation of the changing tide in Brazil to that of the sinking of Chinese direct investments, with the rumor of the potential "first phase" trade deals between the U.S and China taking steam (with the best farmer deal of the century for American farmers). IDIOTS. Then all of the damn sudden some Brazilian elites wake the fuck up to the horror of facist Bolsonaro and Lula is free by a reluctant and narrow vote. Can't make this shit up. Rule of law and democracy finally prevailed.

Why? Afraid of direct confrontation with the empire on a turf these two powers assess they're incapable of effectively achieving their goals.

Why overextend themselves in a landlocked country surrounded by US allies or at best neutrals? The US isn't that successful in achieving its goals either: Colombia is sliding back into civil war, Cuba, Nicaragua & Venezuela triangle is standing, Ecuadorians didn't bow to the IMF (read US) dictat, "the jury is still out' in Chile, & Mexico isn't exactly dancing to US tune.