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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:47 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    kvs wrote:Russia must prevent Crimea from becoming a refugee camp.   Many of these migrants may well be part of a Trojan horse effort.


    Possibly, and one Russia's internal services should look into. Still, better Ukrainians than barbarian hordes from Asia and Africa.

    I'd pick Africa over these Nazi shits any day of the week

    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    I'd pick Africa over these Nazi shits any day of the week


    While there is no denying the marked increase in Ukrainian Nazis they would still be a minority, albeit a very vocal segment at that. No reason to throw the entire basket just because of a few rotten apples and even then there is always the possibility that most of these afflicted could be cured of their brainwashing. Might take years and serious efforts but we've seen much more rapid turnarounds before.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:58 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I'd pick Africa over these Nazi shits any day of the week
    Then you haven't thought it through. You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?

    Why allow in an immigrant from Africa who is unlikely to have a proper education or speak Russian or have a similar culture let alone any experience of a work ethic? On the other hand an immigrant from Ukraine will have all those attributes. OK there is a small chance that they will be a Nazi infiltrator but I expect that the authorities on Crimea are pretty good at identifying them. All the more the better. Ukraine gets rid of its unwanted 'traitors' and Russia gets more people. Win win.

    Over the past few years Russia has absorbed millions of them and been very thankful. As I have said before, the coup in Kiev back in 2014/15 was an enormous blessing in disguise for Russia.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:59 am

    JohninMK wrote:Then you haven't thought it through. You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?...

    Africans can easily fill that role

    Absence of melanin doesn't suddenly make you not-shithead, these days it's usually the opposite

    And if I had to pick some, the Ukrainians would be bottom of the pile



    JohninMK wrote:Why allow in an immigrant from Africa who is unlikely to have a proper education or speak Russian or have a similar culture let alone any experience of a work ethic?...

    That's what proper screening is for

    Set some educational and linguistic standards for immigrants like USA and Europe did in the old days



    JohninMK wrote:Over the past few years Russia has absorbed millions of them and been very thankful....

    Are they, really?

    Because there was a time when they were grateful to USSR as well

    I doubt thet any of them changed their attitude towards Russia

    Just because they couldn't make it westward and had to settle for Russia don't mean they suddenly stopped being assholes

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:59 am

    While there is no denying the marked increase in Ukrainian Nazis they would still be a minority, albeit a very vocal segment at that. No reason to throw the entire basket just because of a few rotten apples and even then there is always the possibility that most of these afflicted could be cured of their brainwashing. Might take years and serious efforts but we've seen much more rapid turnarounds before.

    They turned on Russia and Russians so easily... why would you want to recruit them into Russian society?

    Screw them.

    They did nothing while fellow Ukrainians were branded pro Russian and burned and shelled and bombed... now they want jobs and a nice place to live... so what... go to the back of the queue...

    You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?

    Ukraine will have the same problems.... made worse by their young people trying to get into the EU and their old people dying because they are too proud to use Sputnik-V, and a declining life expectancy.


    Why allow in an immigrant from Africa who is unlikely to have a proper education or speak Russian or have a similar culture let alone any experience of a work ethic?

    Russian language is banned in Ukraine... pretty soon they wont speak it either... and what wonderful work ethic does the Ukraine have?

    On the other hand an immigrant from Ukraine will have all those attributes.

    They also might have a massive chip on their shoulder and look at how things are in Russia compared with Ukraine and blame Russia for everything... all their income goes to the Ukraine and who knows what they might do... whose minds they will poison...

    OK there is a small chance that they will be a Nazi infiltrator but I expect that the authorities on Crimea are pretty good at identifying them.

    Well the Austrians didn't notice a female nazi and they gave us Hitler...

    Ukraine gets rid of its unwanted 'traitors' and Russia gets more people. Win win.

    Infiltrators that draw money away from Russia to the Ukraine... how many of those does Russia need?

    Over the past few years Russia has absorbed millions of them and been very thankful. As I have said before, the coup in Kiev back in 2014/15 was an enormous blessing in disguise for Russia.

    The biggest tick on its ass committed suicide, but lets let the EU sort out the welfare agreements and subsidies... and the structure for them handing any remaining assets to Brussels...

    And if I had to pick some, the Ukrainians would be bottom of the pile

    An African going to Russia is not going for benefits like the ones wanting to get to Germany or Sweden. They want to work and they can work as hard as anyone...

    Just because they couldn't make it westward and had to settle for Russia don't mean they suddenly stopped being assholes

    Seeing what it is actually like in the Crimea and Russia is likely to make them very bitter assholes... the question is... will they direct the blame where it belongs... in Kiev, or was this all just an evil trick perpetrated by Putin because everything is his fault remember... that has been their new doctrine for the last 6 years.

    There are lots of countries I would look for workers from before the Ukraine honestly... certainly until they change their attitude... they burned a lot of bridges... and their own people for goodness sake... how can anyone forget that...

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They turned on Russia and Russians so easily... why would you want to recruit them into Russian society?

    Screw them.
    Turned in what way? I wasn't aware millions of Ukrainians went and signed up en masse to complete Hitler's work during the last few years. Nor was there ever massive support (as in concrete and tangible support, not loaded polls) for the Kiev regime's barbarism to the East. Heck their sitting president himself was elected over promises to stop the violence and reintegrate the East peacefully as well as mend relations with Russia - that doesn't sound like turning on Russia and their fellow Ukrainians but the just the opposite.

    GarryB wrote:
    They did nothing while fellow Ukrainians were branded pro Russian and burned and shelled and bombed... now they want jobs and a nice place to live... so what... go to the back of the queue...
    Lots of people did nothing and just watched - they call it the bystander effect. However some brave Ukrainians did rise up and took up arms against the Kiev regime and if only for their sake and their families should Russia keep the pipeline to integration flowing.

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    Post  Yugo90 Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:56 pm

    Its relly sad how the west and the nazis with some corrupt jews kidnaped the whole country...Ukraine made the biggest mistake when they turned to west...because they will bankrupt the country and buy everything its wort for some dollars...its fucked up situation

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:29 pm

    Importing in mass people from totally different cultural background without control like Europe has being doing is dangerous and stupid. A controlled immigration with more requirements on language, education, capabilities and knowledge of national culture and willingness of integration would be already better.

    The important thing is not to do like EU and grant migrants more rights and social welfare than the country's own citizens.

    I do not see a problem with the immigration of non nazi ukrainians. It is like they are voting with their legs. Of course Russia needs to be wary of trojan horses, but most of ukrainians are just Russian people that have been subject to mass brainwashing for more than 30 years (since at least a few years before the fall of Soviet union).

    Nowadays is easier to do a background check. Most antirussian Ukrainian even post their hate in social media.

    And it is much easier to integrate ukrainian citizens in Russia than to "russianise" ukrainian regions after 30 years of crap.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:42 pm

    There is a huge amount of misconception expressed above.

    Especially that all Ukrainians, perhaps by the mere fact that they are still there, are Nazis or don't speak Russian or are potential traitors. Can we have some proof of that?

    Maybe some but there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in the population who kept there heads down, professed loyalty to the new regime, in the knowledge that, unless they were already in Donbass, if they didn't their friends in the SBU would come calling ready to dole out a fate worse than death. Having lived the alternative, these people are potentially more loyal citizens of Russia than native Russians who have not, ultimately becoming more Russian than the Russians, just like many who moved to the US.

    As to work ethic, wow. (ex)Employees of say Antonov or Motor Sich with solid technical training in Russian don't work hard? Are less preferable as immigrants than Africans who have almost certainly never been inside a factory or worked other than as agricultural labour and will not understand Russian?

    Get real, let the EU have the Africans and probably the young, indoctrinated Ukrainians.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:04 am

    I know the mentality of my Ukrainian relatives and Garry is more right than the optimists who think that most Ukrs are reasonable
    in their view of Russia. They are not. In fact, the Nazis have traction because of some bizarre inadequacy syndrome that has
    developed in Ukraine. It really has flourished after 1991 since Russia has ascended while Pukeraine has descended. Instead of
    facing reality, most humans and Ukrs are no exception, prefer to live in delusion. But in the case of Banderastan, the delusion
    is virulent and dangerous for not just the Ukrs themselves.

    So my point about preventing any flooding of Crimea stands. I want my Ukr relatives to grow a brain.

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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:08 am

    BTW, there is some historical context required. Kosovo is a fine example of annexation by migration. I am quite sure that
    Kiev regime and its supporters would love to see Crimea annexed by flooding it with Ukrs. Even if they act nice they can
    flip overnight and stab Russia in the back. The population of Crimea is 2.5 million people. Sending 1 million Ukr patriots there
    would accomplish the task.

    This scenario cannot be fobbed off. Anyone who dismisses it is not seriously evaluating the situation.

    And what is worse, the 1 million re-occupants would be leeching off Russia and Kiev can get its re-annexation for free.

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    Post  Singular_Transform Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:20 am

    kvs wrote:BTW, there is some historical context required.   Kosovo is a fine example of annexation by migration.   I am quite sure that
    Kiev regime and its supporters would love to see Crimea annexed by flooding it with Ukrs.   Even if they act nice they can
    flip overnight and stab Russia in the back.   The population of Crimea is 2.5 million people.   Sending 1 million Ukr patriots there
    would accomplish the task.

    This scenario cannot be fobbed off.  Anyone who dismisses it is not seriously evaluating the situation.

    And what is worse, the 1 million re-occupants would be leeching off Russia and Kiev can get its re-annexation for free.



    At the moment the Ukrainans emmigrate everywhere around the world.

    Ukraine is not in that situation and not on that organisation level to be capable to send one million people to Crimea, and organise same long term reclamation.

    As a starter ,the emmigrant must be young, means the catastrophics demographics situation would get worst by this move.
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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:34 am

    Who says it needs to be organized like a military campaign.  It only needs svidomite zealots who even get a better standard
    of living in the process.  

    The Kiev regime does not have to pay a dime for this voluntary operation.  Really, all that has to happen is for Crimea to start
    becoming a refugee camp for Ukrs.  Then a small number like 1 million can easily accumulate there over a period of 10-20 years.

    Kosovo Albanians showed such self-organization perfectly.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:13 am



    Off topic


    It is way easier to integrate ukrainians  (or moldovans or armenians as an example) in Russia than Africans.
    I would be wary of importing a lot of people without control from subsaharian Africa.

    The culture is way too different and most people there are not ready to live in an European or Russian society without some intermediate steps.

    I mean, allowing immigration from Ghana, Nigeria or Tanzania (as an example) of a certain number of qualified doctors,  engineers or mechanics, etc  who already know Russian and for whom there is already a job opportunity in Russia is absolutely  not an issue.

    However mass importing people without control (especially from people with totally different origins, cultures and appearence) will just destroy your own society and totally destroy thrust and social cohesion  among the citizens.



    I tend to be against unskilled immigration even between eu countries, but unfortunately stupid EU rules do not allow to put a limit on that.


    One of the problems in Africa is also a very high social envy.

    Nowadays the ubuntu doctrine (loosely explained as
    "the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity") existing in south saahrian Africa
    is advertised to show the higher moral ground of african people compared to europeans and americans.

    The reality is quite different: if you are a successful person in some parts of south saharian Africa you have to maintain a lot of relatives and acquaintances, who will come living at your place and do nothing.

    That is the reason a good number of illegal (non skilled) migrants coming in europe are not even interested in working, but expect to live from subsidies or similar.

    Quoting an Italian journalist (machine translated):

    https://www.maurizioblondet.it/ubuntu-e-invidia/
    Maurizio Blondet wrote:
    Living exploiting the relatives

    (...)Which has an interesting side effect.  When a family member asserts himself in a profession, the whole family from the village goes to visit him in the city and settles in his house, to enjoy his fortune together.  An extended family of forty people and more camps and lives behind him because according to the family he has a duty to do so, consuming the substances.  The successful professional cannot refuse, without breaking ubuntu and being frowned upon by the extended family group, arousing their dangerous envy (with the relative casting of jinxes by a sorcerer paid for by relatives).  

    This is one of the reasons why the few truly advanced and professional doctors and technicians, as soon as they can, emigrate and continue their profession in Europe, the USA or the Gulf countries, impoverishing Africa of the ruling class.


    You will think he is exaggerating.  But the phenomenon was so worrying that it was mentioned by Julius Nyerere (1922-1999), the father of the homeland of Tanzania and socialist, in the historic Arusha Declaration (1967), rightly considered the ideal constitution of Africa, the equivalent of the solemn  preamble of the American Constitution, We the People ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arusha_Declaration
    After having sanctioned the equality of all men, the fight against exploitation and poverty, in the "Good Policies" section, the Declaration explains:
    “Nobody should go and stay for a long time with his relative, doing no work, because in doing so he will be exploiting his relative. Likewise, nobody should be allowed to loiter in towns or villages without doing work which would enable him to be self-reliant without exploiting his relatives."

    What do you think?  Look at the well-dressed young African disco lover with headphones on loitering around supermarkets, and you'll recognize the human type painfully condemned by Nyerere


    https://www.marxists.org/subject/africa/nyerere/1967/arusha-declaration.htm

    Arusha declaration wrote:
    c) Good Policies

    The principles of our policy of self-reliance go hand in hand with our policy of socialism. In order to prevent exploitation it is necessary for everybody to work and to live on his own labour. And in order to distribute the national wealth rairly, it is necessary for everybody to work to the maximum of his ability. Nobody should go and stay for a long time with his relative, doing no work, because in doing so he will be exploiting his relative. Likewise, nobody should be allowed to loiter in towns or villages without doing work which would enable him to be self-reliant without exploiting his relatives.

    Other issues are the OSU outcasts

    in all of sub-Saharan Africa, not only in Nigeria and Cameroon, there is a category of impure "Untouchables" without rights, who cannot marry the "free" (Nwadiala), nor dance with them, not even pray  for a book.  They suffer all kinds of harassment.  They are called OSU and they are certainly descendants of prisoners of war in the endless tribal wars, when they were dedicated as "living sacrifices to spirits" (and in fact they lived near places of worship or markets);  but children and grandchildren of OSU remain OSU, ie without legal rights to own land, for example.  And they must live apart from the free.  It is an irreversible condition of inferiority.

    http://www.afryculture.com/osu-outcaste.html

    https://cityvoiceng.com/anglican-bishops-seek-end-to-osu-caste-system-in-south-east/

    ,
    Inducted mental illnesses

    http://www.afryculture.com/insanity-untold-story.html


    Furthermore there are still a lot of problems with black magic, human sacrifices, killing of albinos and hunchbacks

    http://www.good-and-bad-culture.com/p/bad-cultures-2.html?m=1

    Tanzania, witch-doctors say they can use albino body parts in a potion to make people rich or for good luck. Some think albinos are a kind of ghost-like creature, while some are convinced that there are magical properties in the blood, bones and skin of the albinos. The hunchbacks are also affected by this superstitious belief. Some people think that the swelling at the back can be used by witch doctors to make people rich, so they are killed and swelling taken out for the charm.
    This has created a sickening black market where the body parts of albinos and hunchbacks can bring in anywhere from $500 to $2,000. In a part of the world where the per capita income is roughly $450 a year…I mean, think of the effect. This has made the albinos and the hunchbacks to hide from people, especially in the night.

    If you don't control it, instead of educating the migrants and integrating them in the country culture, you will import all of the problems that they already have in their own countries.
    Just to report an example a couple of years ago an italian girl (unfortunately drug addicted) was killed and chopped in pieces by a Nigerian drug dealer possibly for some simil voodoo rites or black magic practices...

    https://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2019/01/31/dismembered-girl-case-wake-up-call_577ee926-8a33-40c9-b437-a626a56dad90.html

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pamela_Mastropietro

    https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/pamela-strappate-viscere-spunta-lombra-rito-voodoo-1489687.html
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:27 am

    kvs wrote:Who says it needs to be organized like a military campaign.  It only needs svidomite zealots who even get a better standard
    of living in the process.  

    The Kiev regime does not have to pay a dime for this voluntary operation.  Really, all that has to happen is for Crimea to start
    becoming a refugee camp for Ukrs.  Then a small number like 1 million can easily accumulate there over a period of 10-20 years.

    Kosovo Albanians showed such self-organization perfectly.
    well, Albanians are from a different culture and ethnic group compared to Serbians, so it is quite a different issue with the Ukrainians, who in most cases are brainwashed ethnic Russians.

    In 20 years the majority of those that emigrated to Russia will be fully Russian and will despise anything Ukrainian.

    Anyway, it would be absolutely not a good idea to allow too many Ukrainians to settle in Crimea. For Russia it would be better to allow the move of a certain number of Russians from the mainland to Crimea and instead allow the Ukrainian migrants to settle away from the borders (maybe even in one of the regions with less ethnic Russians to rebalance the population).
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:07 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:It is way easier to integrate ukrainians (or moldovans or armenians as an example) in Russia than Africans...

    Wrong

    Africans already in Russia are perfectly well integrated (and have done so faster than most whites especially the Ukrainians despite odds being stacked against them)

    And there is zero chance that you will see Africans yelling "Slava Ukraine"

    The Ukrainians will always be fully loyal to the Ukraine, Bandera may be dead but he still runs the show (this is fault of commies for not carrying out denazification after WW2)

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:04 am

    Turned in what way? I wasn't aware millions of Ukrainians went and signed up en masse to complete Hitler's work during the last few years

    They are not Russians, they are Ukrainians, they don't want to be Russian... the solution would be easy if they did, but they don't... even the people in the east who got bombed by Kiev forces don't want to become Russian, they just want to be able to speak Russian and trade with Russia like they used to... they don't see themselves as Russians.

    Joining the Russian federation is not the top of their lists... for many it isn't even a last resort, but some have mentioned it as a possibility... don't mistake that with being pro Russia.

    Nor was there ever massive support (as in concrete and tangible support, not loaded polls) for the Kiev regime's barbarism to the East.

    Not a lot of resistance to it either... I mean if you said everyone in the house will now speak Scottish, and some people in the household said no, would it be OK to beat them to death, and when it came to criminal charges obviously the adult who administered the beating would be charged but would you ignore the rest of the family who stood by and let it happen and did nothing to stop it or defend the victim/s?

    I mean what was in Nulands cookies?

    Heck their sitting president himself was elected over promises to stop the violence and reintegrate the East peacefully as well as mend relations with Russia - that doesn't sound like turning on Russia and their fellow Ukrainians but the just the opposite.

    Well it was pretty clear the alternative hadn't worked... clearly time for new solutions... an attitude of lets ignore genocide and wait till we can vote them out is not something I give much credit for.

    [quote However some brave Ukrainians did rise up and took up arms against the Kiev regime and if only for their sake and their families should Russia keep the pipeline to integration flowing.
    [/quote]

    Ukrainians trying to keep the Ukraine the way it was before the US led coup... still largely hostile to Russia and looking west.

    Some people simplify the situation and try to pretend that this was an infiltration by Putin and when the Ukraine was saved from the evil pro Russian puppet by the democratic and peaceful coup from the US, Putin had to resort to funding insurrection in the east, a group of terrorists trying to take over the Ukraine with Russian armoured divisions and military forces creating a stalemate on the ground.

    The reality is that the Ukraine is not Russia and does and did not like Russia and was gradually turning west. Offers of investments from both sides however led to an anti Russian Ukrainian president to take the Russian offer because it was obviously better, which led to an immediate coup. In the Ukraine, like most east european countries, there is the popular party, and then there is the communists and then nazi and nationalist type criminals... with the most popular party being overthrown and the communists out of the question that left the fringe nutters including nazis. The laws on banning Russian language were already on the books, but these nazis tried to properly enforce them and a large part of the Russian speaking east of the country refused... for which they were bombed and shelled and shot and burned.

    The fact that they defended themselves from their own government is no surprise and not something Russia should be rewarding.

    They didn't do it for Russia.

    Its relly sad how the west and the nazis with some corrupt jews kidnaped the whole country...Ukraine made the biggest mistake when they turned to west...because they will bankrupt the country and buy everything its wort for some dollars...its fucked up situation

    They cut off their main customer and trading partner... Russia... they were gradually doing that anyway, but the sudden severing of ties and trade is what killed their economy, and the west is not interested in economic competition and had no reason to substitute Russia and buy Ukrainian products.

    The American dream... only makes sense when you are asleep... and it isn't really for anyone who isn't American...

    Nowadays is easier to do a background check. Most antirussian Ukrainian even post their hate in social media.

    And it is much easier to integrate ukrainian citizens in Russia than to "russianise" ukrainian regions after 30 years of crap.

    I would say social media should be saved and archived so posts cannot be deleted and hidden.... and when Russian hating Ukrainians apply for citizenship or have already been given citizenship can be shown their words and asked to explain. And then have citizenship denied or stripped.

    Russia is not America... they can be picky about who they let live in Russia... they have something that is valuable... a decent place to live.

    Especially that all Ukrainians, perhaps by the mere fact that they are still there, are Nazis or don't speak Russian or are potential traitors. Can we have some proof of that?

    They are brainwashed to think Russia is the enemy... can you expect they get a free pass and get to live in a richer more prosperous country just because they have fucked up their country and want to run away for a better life somewhere else?

    I know the mentality of my Ukrainian relatives and Garry is more right than the optimists who think that most Ukrs are reasonable
    in their view of Russia.

    Indoctrination and propaganda are powerful tools and they have been bombarded for 30 plus years...

    As a starter ,the emmigrant must be young, means the catastrophics demographics situation would get worst by this move.

    The potential immigrant can just be fed information about how terrible it is in the Ukraine... how is it in the Crimea.... it must be Putins fault... he tricked us into getting into bed with the Americans and Europeans... blah blah blah...

    I tend to be against unskilled immigration even between eu countries, but unfortunately stupid EU rules do not allow to put a limit on that.

    Seasonal work like fruit picking is a big thing for immigration... here we had a lot of owners in central otago complaining because they didn't have the usual seasonal fruit pickers because of the covid lockdowns. We also heard from our big fishing companies about Russian and Ukrainian fishermen stuck in quarantine... the fact is that they use foreigners because they don't pay a wage anyone else could live on so they import foreigners...

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:49 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Rodion Romanovic wrote:I tend to be against unskilled immigration even between eu countries, but unfortunately stupid EU rules do not allow to put a limit on that.

    Seasonal work like fruit picking is a big thing for immigration... here we had a lot of owners in central otago complaining because they didn't have the usual seasonal fruit pickers because of the covid lockdowns. We also heard from our big fishing companies about Russian and Ukrainian fishermen stuck in quarantine... the fact is that they use foreigners because they don't pay a wage anyone else could live on so they import foreigners...

    we have that also in italy, but it makes no sense. We have a lot of citizen unemployed. It makes no sense to allow seasonal immigration for stuff like fruit picking and so on when your own citizen aren't working. They prefer to keep the citizen at home with "reddito di cittadinanza" (a sort of really stupid unemployment welfare system) and import foreigners for seasonal work paid under minimum wage instead of offering an acceptable pay.

    The problem is also that due to EU laws we (Italy) have to dump a lot of high quality fruits and vegetable to open the market to foreign goods (sometimes also from non EU countries).

    It would have been way better to subsidize a bit the sector (with the state paying a part of the wages in order to offer an acceptable pay, instead of keeping the unemployed citizens at home with welfare bonuses....
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    Post  par far Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:18 pm

    Russia should not import migrants from anywhere, Russia should increase it's own ethnic population(which they are doing). Find oit why the ethnic population is not growing and fix that problem(which Russia is doing.)

    For those saying all the people in Ukraine support the current regime, have no idea what is happening in Ukraine.

    People that are in the western part of Ukraine are the ones that really support the current regime. Not everyone is a Nazi, it is only a small minority.

    If there are people from Ukraine coming to Crimea, they already know they will be under the eyes of Russian intelligence agencies, they are unlikely to do anything stupid. They are mostly looking for work.


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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:37 pm

    The apparent problem with Ukraine that goes beyond the Nazi issue is the habit of thinking that someone has to provide for their needs. If they are pro-Russian it means they want Russia to take care, if they are pro-Western then they hope it will be US and EU. It is something that needs to change before that population can be integrated into Russia again beyond token quantities.
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    Post  calripson Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:38 pm

    par far wrote:Russia should not import migrants from anywhere,  Russia should increase it's own ethnic population(which they are doing). Find oit why the ethnic population is not growing and fix that problem(which Russia is doing.)

    For those saying all the people in Ukraine support the current regime, have no idea what is happening in Ukraine.

    People that are in the western part of Ukraine are the ones that really support the current regime.  Not everyone is a Nazi, it is only a small minority.

    If there are people from Ukraine coming to Crimea, they already know they will be under the eyes of Russian intelligence agencies, they are unlikely to do anything stupid. They are mostly looking for work.



    Believe it or not, there are many talented people interested in immigrating from the US, Canada, and Europe to Russia. If they are educated, politically supportive of Russian values, young, and ready to contribute and integrate into Russian society why not allow them to immigrate? I am not talking about waves of immigrants, but certainly a few million of the right type of immigrant over ten years would be a net benefit.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:43 pm

    It does not matter what they think they are doing and how "innocent" they are. In 20 years when they have a majority
    in Crimea they will be used to enable secession and re-annexation. Even if Ukraine by that time is a desiccated husk,
    there will be plenty of western backing and resources to make this happen.

    The obvious potential problem should be nipped in the bud. If Ukr migrants want to go to Russia, then they can go anywhere
    but Crimea. If they are not happy with this, then they can bugger on off somewhere else. Russia has no obligations to them.
    It is they who have obligations to Russia.

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    Post  par far Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:10 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:It is way easier to integrate ukrainians  (or moldovans or armenians as an example) in Russia than Africans...

    Wrong

    Africans already in Russia are perfectly well integrated (and have done so faster than most whites especially the Ukrainians despite odds being stacked against them)

    And there is zero chance that you will see Africans yelling "Slava Ukraine"

    The Ukrainians will always be fully loyal to the Ukraine, Bandera may be dead but he still runs the show (this is fault of commies for not carrying out denazification after WW2)


    How many Africans are in Russia? I have no idea, from what I gather it is around 10,000?

    Also after the reunification of Crimea with Russia, lots of Ukrainians stayed back to join the Russian military.
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    Post  par far Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:12 pm

    LMFS wrote:The apparent problem with Ukraine that goes beyond the Nazi issue is the habit of thinking that someone has to provide for their needs. If they are pro-Russian it means they want Russia to take care, if they are pro-Western then they hope it will be US and EU. It is something that needs to change before that population can be integrated into Russia again beyond token quantities.


    I honestly dont know much about this, I will try to research how Ukrainians act when they need assistance. Do they work it? Or do they just wait for handouts?
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    Post  par far Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:17 pm

    calripson wrote:
    par far wrote:Russia should not import migrants from anywhere,  Russia should increase it's own ethnic population(which they are doing). Find oit why the ethnic population is not growing and fix that problem(which Russia is doing.)

    For those saying all the people in Ukraine support the current regime, have no idea what is happening in Ukraine.

    People that are in the western part of Ukraine are the ones that really support the current regime.  Not everyone is a Nazi, it is only a small minority.

    If there are people from Ukraine coming to Crimea, they already know they will be under the eyes of Russian intelligence agencies, they are unlikely to do anything stupid. They are mostly looking for work.



    Believe it or not, there are many talented people interested in immigrating from the US, Canada, and Europe to Russia. If they are educated, politically supportive of Russian values, young, and ready to contribute and integrate into Russian society why not allow them to immigrate? I am not talking about waves of immigrants, but certainly a few million of the right type of immigrant over ten years would be a net benefit.

    Of course I believe that people from western countries(mostly the US), want to come to Russia and most of them are Russians that left in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's.

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/a-message-to-russian-expats-living-in-the-us/

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