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    Russian Economy General News: #10

    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible


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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:18 am

    Not it doesn't.

    You don't understand economics. Russia is net exporter not importer.  If Rubles went to 100000 per USD, doesnt matter. Prices won't increase in correspondence to same levels.  Your knowledge on this is really bad.

    And Russian economy didn't grow because of it's exports. Overall it's exports are down quite a bit compared to previous of years. Cash flow has increased though.
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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 am

    Tingsay wrote:Vann's post tl:dr version:

    Putin moron
    Putin stap supporting sports and aggriculture
    Russia need to counter West hegemony with Leadership in space and buzinezz



    this applies to roughly 95% of all of Vann's posts


    And 95% of the people in this forums ,are outdated backwards thinkers..

    Because Russia have a bully nation that who wants to see Russia destroyed ,
    and they will NEVER BACK DOWN in their hostilities ,until Putin stop being Putin
    and choose to fight back... otherwise they will continue creating Syria like conflicts , Venezuela like
    and creating revolutions near Russia borders and aiding terrorism and kidnapping Russian citizens world wide.. Russia is at war already.. is a war.. but without missiles...  and Russia needs to fight.
    remaining passive absorbing hits is not a strategy .. It will only teach their enemies how to hit harder next time..

    And how Russia can fight back ? the only ways.
    1) Declare war against united states.. to force them to peace..  OR..
    2) Destroy American Economy and create an alternative system ,by creating competition Business that counters the ones   that are more popular for them.. for their influence in the world..

    So i propose #2.. that Russia fight American popular business.. Because that way not only
    damage American economy but also helps Russia to gain Influence in the world . and show
    people that US is not longer the world leader in development.

    Selling more bananas , more Wheat , winning more olympics medals , building better nukes
    , building more parks , increasing Tourism ,hosting more olympics will not help Russia in any way ,shape or form to convince Europe Abandon NATO and move to Russia orbit..  or counter US economy and influence. in the world with business. Russia needs to create a new system.. without one ,
    no nation will have an option to move away from the US orbit.. if there is nothing else to choose.
    Nibiru
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    Post  Nibiru Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:57 pm


    BRICS countries to create own payment system to cut dependence on West


    The five major emerging economies – Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa – are developing a joint new payment system called BRICS Pay, the Russian media has reported.

    BRICS countries want to create a special online wallet to integrate the payment systems of its five member states, Izvestia said on Friday citing the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF). Russia's wealth fund is reportedly working on the project alongside its partners from China and India, who have the necessary technologies to launch the system.

    https://www.rt.com/business/452737-brics-own-payment-system/



    Russia may crack down on Visa & Mastercard over abuse of dominant market position

    Russia’s trade associations have filed a request to the country’s antitrust authority on bringing action against international payment systems Visa and Mastercard over alleged abuse of market power in Russia.

    The appeal was brought by a group of trade societies, including the Association of Internet Trade Companies, the Retail Companies Association (ACORT), and the Association of Trading Companies and Manufacturers of Electrical Household and Computer Equipment, according to the Federal Antimonopoly Service, as cited by TASS.

    https://www.rt.com/business/452724-russia-crackdown-visa-mastercard-monopoly/

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:33 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Not it doesn't.

    You don't understand economics. Russia is net exporter not importer.  If Rubles went to 100000 per USD, doesnt matter. Prices won't increase in correspondence to same levels.  Your knowledge on this is really bad.


    show me,plese, only one country where it works? perhaps there is but I dont see any.

    Rate $/rub does matter as most of household appliances, cars, TV, computers, electronics, aerospace components, industrial components is imported. Not to mention crude/gas drilling installations.







    MTT wrote: And Russian economy didn't grow because of it's exports. Overall it's exports are down quite a bit compared to previous of years.  Cash flow has increased though.

    Please tell me how it grew then exports ? how Russia budget surplus /reserves could accumulate
    Also in the future how you want to grow Russian companies without experts?


    The new package of measures for the "Russian offshore" will affect ships and digital assets

    It also discusses the reduction of insurance premium rates and the liberalization of labor legislation for crews.
    MOSCOW, March 1. / TASS /. The Ministry of Economic Development is developing a third package of measures for the development of “Russian offshore companies” (Special Administrative Regions, SAR), in which it is planned to include exemption from certain taxes of resident ships, special regulation of digital assets and the possibility of issuing different types of shares. About this in an interview with TASS, said Deputy Minister of Economic Development Ilya Torosov.

    "We are working on the issue of exemption of ships registered in the Russian open registry of ships owned by residents of the SAR, from VAT, income tax, transport tax, property tax. We also discuss lower insurance premium rates, liberalization of labor law in relation to crew members of marine vessels Plus - features of the regulation of digital assets ", - he said.

    Torosov explained that the regulation of digital assets means the possibility of using cryptocurrency. “It is clear that this is a cryptocurrency, but for now we are talking more generally. In terms of the adoption of the third package, I’m not ready to say so far. These are already very difficult things,” he explained.
    https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6175089



    Lavrov: Russia and Venezuela have outlined steps to strengthen trade and investment ties


    Russian Foreign Minister specifies that Moscow will continue to assist Caracas in solving social and economic problems
    MOSCOW, March 1. / TASS /. Moscow and Caracas have outlined joint steps to expand and strengthen trade, economic and investment ties. This was announced on Friday by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov at a press conference following talks with the Executive Vice President of the Bolivarian Republic, Delsey Rodriguez.

    "Russia will continue to assist the Venezuelan authorities in solving social and economic problems, including through the provision of legitimate humanitarian assistance," he said

    https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6174941
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:44 pm

    Nibiru wrote:
    BRICS countries to create own payment system to cut dependence on West



    you wanted offensive counter-sanctions? et voila   DAT is one of best fucking counter-sanctions.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:10 pm

    Didn't you know? You should have figured it out but import substitution actually first happened for oil and gas. They no longer import the equipment to drill and extract oil.

    Last time, inflation was 16% but ruble devalued by half. Inflation didn't increase by half.....

    Over 90% of aircraft tech is now Russian.

    Very little is imported these days by Russia. Except for stuff from China. Which they are negotiating between domestic currencies anyway.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:40 pm

    A common theme in Russian economics is the gross "mistake" in treating the export profile as a measure of
    the diversification level. It does not matter that Russia exports mostly resources and primary production.
    This says precisely f*ck all about Russia's economy and instead says everything about the global trade climate.
    Global trade is dominated by the western mafia that has been colonizing the planet for centuries.

    And Russia does not depend on exports to survive. This is the BS from the endlessly repeated claim that
    50% of Russia's GDP depends on oil and gas exports. In fact it was only part of the federal budget several
    years ago that was 50% financed by oil and gas. The consolidated budget had under 33% dependence at its
    peak and currently less than 17% depends on these fossil fuels. Oil and gas account for less than 7% of
    the GDP. But that does not matter since comparative advantage counts for something and Russia can extract
    resources and produce high tech equipment at the same time.

    The success of import substitution over the last 5 years is due to the fact that Russia's economy is diversified
    and has the qualified workers needed to design and manufacture various classes of imports. Thanks to the
    tantrum thrown by the EU and its owner, the USA, Russia has finally reversed key damage inflicted by Yeltsin's
    comprador regime. It is also consolidating its position as a leading (top 3) global power.

    Kimppis
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    Post  Kimppis Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:31 pm

    You all have good points. I want to make clear that I don't disagree with GunshipDemocracy.

    But it's indeed very weird how much "laymen" focus on exports, oftentimes straight out equating them with the whole economy.

    McCain (RIH) and co. should've looked at Australia's and Norway's exports. That's the first thing.  

    I was just browsing Wikipedia a few days ago, and this very simple chart is actually very telling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

    It's immediately clear that the ranking doesn't really correlate with the size of different economies (even in nominal GDP!) or even with the overall level of development. As it turns out, it lacks any obvious "layman" logic. Export dependency is simply extremely variable. EDIT: OK, that's a bit misleading. Of course there's a connection between GDP and exports overall, but the point is that in many cases it's "surprisingly" weak.
       
    What surprised me is how low Japan's dependency is and in fact how relatively "little" the country actually exports. Japan must still be very dependent on raw material imports, but Germany's exports are almost 2.5x bigger. So how come? Does this mean that the German economy is that much "stronger" and "more developed" or even more "influential" than Japan? Of course not.

    So Mexico, Singapore, Switzerland, Taiwan and the Netherlands are giants? India hardly exports anything, so it's an economic midget? No!

    Hell, obviously USA's export dependency is low and in per capita terms it exports comparatively little as well. Is that a sign of underdevelopment? Looking at exports, Italy must also be much more developed than the UK, France even more so. Germany is a total behemoth.

    I could clearly go on forever, but there's one last thing I'd like to add: I never realized how much Russia actually exported (and exports, as of 2019), before the collapse in oil prices its exports were at 1/3rd of the US's 1.5 trillion and quite comparable to Japan! (And btw, that chart is outdated, I think Russia's exports were already close to $450 billion last year.)
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:01 am

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/117650/

    Import substitution: in February 2019 implemented 23 projects

    From June 2015, according to the website "Made us" and other resources in Russia implemented over 1168 projects of import substitution!

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:39 am

    Not to forget that this lists doesn´t account for the differences in prices/purchasing power and so on. Amiland is the largest exporter of weapons because a tank from there costs you 5 or even 7 Mio. while a tank from Russia will cost 1,5 Mio.
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    Post  Austin Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:14 am

    Head of Huawei in Russia: We are working to bring the digital future of the Russian Federation closer

    https://tass.ru/online-conference/6168397?utm_source=tass&utm_medium=teaser&utm_campaign=teaser
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:04 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
       
    What surprised me is how low Japan's dependency is and in fact how relatively "little" the country actually exports. Japan must still be very dependent on raw material imports, but Germany's exports are almost 2.5x bigger. So how come? Does this mean that the German economy is that much "stronger" and "more developed" or even more "influential" than Japan? Of course not.

    So Mexico, Singapore, Switzerland, Taiwan and the Netherlands are giants? India hardly exports anything, so it's an economic midget? No!


    I disagree. Export does matter. First of all to have access to bigger market, what ultimately help you to use economy of scale to nvest even more in development. Of course you need to accumulate money first - export definitely helps.

     


    a) Mexico export structure? Mexico is mainly  exporting   to US goodies made by US companies in Mexico

    b) NL or CH, India  GDP PPP  per capita  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    ................................2017
    Switzerland...............$.61,360
    Netherlands...............$.53,582
    ....
    India.........................$7,174


    c) Japan did grow mainly because of export. Check timeline. Same thing is doing Korea now.  Now after tens years of accumulation Japan has enormous capital to invest/expert/live from + decent internal market.


    look @ Toyota in 2017.  10,4m cars per year built. Of which  4m in Japan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota#Production_and_sales_numbers




    K wrote: Hell, obviously USA's export dependency is low and in per capita terms it exports comparatively little as well. Is that a sign of underdevelopment?

    They have printing press,media and army why they need to export anything?



    K wrote: I could clearly go , I think Russia's exports were already close to $450 billion last year.)

    very good, it helps to accumulate capital and what is no less important  to have more influence in the world. .


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:38 pm

    kvs wrote:A common theme in Russian economics is the gross "mistake" in treating the export profile as a measure of
    the diversification level.   It does not matter that Russia exports mostly resources and primary production.
    {}

    And Russia does not depend on exports to survive.  

    True,  it doesnt to survive. But not enough to develop not to mention to run faster then competition .




    KVS wrote: The success of import substitution over the last 5 years is due to the fact that Russia's economy is diversified
    and has the qualified workers needed to design and manufacture various classes of imports.  

    not yet there Im afraid.  True import substitution is good because of  many reasons: like  less dependency from enemies, more work for own people and ultimately  taxes paid.

    Nonetheless:
    Mind the whole Russian microelectronics market is ~$2,5B/pa. Russian is simply not enough to keep hi-tech industry developing.

    Intel is big because  Intel sells chips all over the world. Thus can sustain incredible R&D investments budget -$13 Bn (and marketing one too) . None of Russian's hi-tech is even close.


    Without export Russians never ever can build competitive microelectronics or industry robots industry.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:48 pm

    Mosfilm with coopertion with  Russian MoD presents:




    "Valery, the evil clowns' slayer"


    starring: general Valery Gerasimov


    The Russian General Staff spoke about the development of the US strategy of color revolutions using weapons


    Russia is ready to resist this, head of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov said
    "The Pentagon has begun to develop a fundamentally new strategy of warfare, which has already been dubbed the Trojan Horse. Its essence lies in actively using the protest potential of the fifth column in the interests of destabilizing the situation while simultaneously attacking with use of precision weapons on the most important objects," he said. .

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6178016


    time to chop Chubais/Kudrin and remaining  thieving svoloch!  especially in media space.
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    Post  Kimppis Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:18 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:I disagree. Export does matter. First of all to have access to bigger market, what ultimately help you to use economy of scale to nvest even more in development. Of course you need to accumulate money first - export definitely helps.

    I think our disagreements are minor, and you might have partially missed my main point. I never said that exports don't matter, and I agree that in Russia's case a steady growth in non-resource exports will probably be quite necessary in the next decade.

    a) Mexico export structure? Mexico is mainly  exporting   to US goodies made by US companies in Mexico

    I know, exactly. But that's exactly my point. If you only look at exports, if you apply "anti-Russian" standards to Mexico, you'd have to conclude that the country is an economic powerhouse. Or that Germany is a superpower that dwarfs Japan, etc etc etc. You can't only take exports into account. The difference, the variation, is massive even between developed Western countries.  

    b) NL or CH, India  GDP PPP  per capita  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    ................................2017
    Switzerland...............$.61,360
    Netherlands...............$.53,582
    ....
    India.........................$7,174

    c) Japan did grow mainly because of export. Check timeline. Same thing is doing Korea now.  Now after tens years of accumulation Japan has enormous capital to invest/expert/live from + decent internal market.

    And yes, that's very true. India of course is an extreme example in general, because the country is still very undeveloped and its economic structure is certainly not optimal (i.e. it should absolutely export more than it does currently). But Russia can't be compared to India, Russia isn't really even a "developing country," its GDP per capita is already $30,000.

    You are correct on Japan as well of course, but one can certainly find developed countries that have never prioritized exports as much as Japan. (China is another example btw, and a very recent one, since 2008 its dependency on exports has considerably declined.) Russia is not an East Asian "mercantilist" country, it's neither Japan nor India.
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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:36 pm

    Data from Ben Aris.

    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 11_410
    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 22_410
    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 33_110
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:38 pm

    More.

    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 44_010
    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 5510
    Russian Economy General News: #10 - Page 14 7710

    Quote: "Russian customs reports that in 2018 the country’s goods trade surplus climbed to $212bn, or roughly 12% of GDP. Russia is now running a triple surplus again for the first time in years: trade, current account and federal budget. Both the budget and the current account surpluses are at record levels."
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:26 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kvs wrote:A common theme in Russian economics is the gross "mistake" in treating the export profile as a measure of
    the diversification level.   It does not matter that Russia exports mostly resources and primary production.
    {}

    And Russia does not depend on exports to survive.  

    True,  it doesnt to survive. But not enough to develop not to mention to run faster then competition .




    KVS wrote: The success of import substitution over the last 5 years is due to the fact that Russia's economy is diversified
    and has the qualified workers needed to design and manufacture various classes of imports.  

    not yet there Im afraid.  True import substitution is good because of  many reasons: like  less dependency from enemies, more work for own people and ultimately  taxes paid.

    Nonetheless:
    Mind the whole Russian microelectronics market is ~$2,5B/pa.  Russian is simply not enough to keep hi-tech industry developing.

    Intel is big because  Intel sells chips all over the world. Thus can sustain incredible R&D investments budget -$13 Bn (and marketing one too) . None of Russian's hi-tech is even close.


    Without export Russians never ever can build competitive microelectronics or industry robots industry.

    General misconception.

    Russian market alone could be the one profiting and taking control of the Russian electronics industry. They could cooperate with China for their market as well. But an example is China's Zhaoxin is perfect example of this. They build a competitive capable processor without even having close to the market that Intel or AMD has. And it never will because of trade restrictions. But that didn't stop them in their R&D. Even though its a competing x86 design rather than Russia's attempts with VLIW/RISC type processor Elbrus E2K architecture. Which in this case, MCST is also releasing quite a capable processor with next to no budget. While it could benefit (no doubt) with world wide outreach, the intentions of it isn't that. The intentions is creating a modern, capable processor that would meet domestic needs, and expanding upon that. While I agree with KVS that the Elbrus E2K architecture is outdated and needs refinement, that will happen in due corse, nothing to do with the worldwide market. They COULD at least work with foreign entities (Iran, NK, Vietnam, Venezuela, etc) on building cooperating and even offices in order to entice development and purchase of these microprocessors, but that wont happen anytime soon.

    As well, I am glad you used Intel as an example. Intel may be moving here and there for expanding its capabilities but believe it or not, they are having major issues right now. AMD has crept up (without having the global outreach you proclaim is much needed for advancement) with their Ryzen core design, bringing real competition again against Intel not seen since A64 era. Intel is panicking and trying to really push out more of its 10nm design. BUT what makes it even more interesting is you should watch this guy on youtube - his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Tn-atYOt8qZP-oqui7bhw

    He is based out of Australia but he really loves the x58 and x79 chipset systems. Reason being is that even though they are based upon old architectures (32nm to 22nm) and are in some cases over 10 years old, they perform amazing and the difference between them and Intels newer chipsets, shows that there really isn't much to be excited about in overall performance. Actually, it proves that Intel has lagged horribly in the last 9 years over its architecture designs and that older processors work extremely well, get the job done and does it at the right price. Hence why there was little to no reason to actually use the later designs over the new ones. Intel did gain a lot from having such an outreach, but overall, it has nothing to do for the customers themselves but self enrichment of Intel and its CEO's. As well, this is the reason why we will see IPC price reductions over the next year anyway and AMD taking even more market share with its Ryzen 2 (Ryzen 3000) processors, because of Intels lack luster performance in the last 9 years against even their old designs.

    I type away at this while having a custom upgraded Dell T3500 with a GTX970 GPU and 12gb of DDR3 1066 memory. I plan to upgrade with a GTX1660 and using 1333mhz DDR3 memory. I know people on other sites that are using GTX2080 in their T3500's and running a Xeon W3680 at 4.1ghz (using throttlestop) and getting performance greater than my other systems Core i7 4770K.
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:49 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kvs wrote:A common theme in Russian economics is the gross "mistake" in treating the export profile as a measure of
    the diversification level.   It does not matter that Russia exports mostly resources and primary production.
    {}

    And Russia does not depend on exports to survive.  

    True,  it doesnt to survive. But not enough to develop not to mention to run faster then competition .




    KVS wrote: The success of import substitution over the last 5 years is due to the fact that Russia's economy is diversified
    and has the qualified workers needed to design and manufacture various classes of imports.  

    not yet there Im afraid.  True import substitution is good because of  many reasons: like  less dependency from enemies, more work for own people and ultimately  taxes paid.

    Nonetheless:
    Mind the whole Russian microelectronics market is ~$2,5B/pa.  Russian is simply not enough to keep hi-tech industry developing.

    Intel is big because  Intel sells chips all over the world. Thus can sustain incredible R&D investments budget -$13 Bn (and marketing one too) . None of Russian's hi-tech is even close.


    Without export Russians never ever can build competitive microelectronics or industry robots industry.

    General misconception.

    Russian market alone could be the one profiting and taking control of the Russian electronics industry.  They could cooperate with China for their market as well.  But an example is China's Zhaoxin is perfect example of this.  They build a competitive capable processor without even having close to the market that Intel or AMD has.  And it never will because of trade restrictions.  But that didn't stop them in their R&D.  Even though its a competing x86 design rather than Russia's attempts with VLIW/RISC type processor Elbrus E2K architecture.  Which in this case, MCST is also releasing quite a capable processor with next to no budget.  While it could benefit (no doubt) with world wide outreach, the intentions of it isn't that.  The intentions is creating a modern, capable processor that would meet domestic needs, and expanding upon that.  While I agree with KVS that the Elbrus E2K architecture is outdated and needs refinement, that will happen in due corse, nothing to do with the worldwide market.  They COULD at least work with foreign entities (Iran, NK, Vietnam, Venezuela, etc) on building cooperating and even offices in order to entice development and purchase of these microprocessors, but that wont happen anytime soon.

    As well, I am glad you used Intel as an example.  Intel may be moving here and there for expanding its capabilities but believe it or not, they are having major issues right now.  AMD has crept up (without having the global outreach you proclaim is much needed for advancement) with their Ryzen core design, bringing real competition again against Intel not seen since A64 era.  Intel is panicking and trying to really push out more of its 10nm design.  BUT what makes it even more interesting is you should watch this guy on youtube - his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Tn-atYOt8qZP-oqui7bhw

    He is based out of Australia but he really loves the x58 and x79 chipset systems.  Reason being is that even though they are based upon old architectures (32nm to 22nm) and are in some cases over 10 years old, they perform amazing and the difference between them and Intels newer chipsets, shows that there really isn't much to be excited about in overall performance.  Actually, it proves that Intel has lagged horribly in the last 9 years over its architecture designs and that older processors work extremely well, get the job done and does it at the right price.  Hence why there was little to no reason to actually use the later designs over the new ones.  Intel did gain a lot from having such an outreach, but overall, it has nothing to do for the customers themselves but self enrichment of Intel and its CEO's.  As well, this is the reason why we will see IPC price reductions over the next year anyway and AMD taking even more market share with its Ryzen 2 (Ryzen 3000) processors, because of Intels lack luster performance in the last 9 years against even their old designs.

    I type away at this while having a custom upgraded Dell T3500 with a GTX970 GPU and 12gb of DDR3 1066 memory.  I plan to upgrade with a GTX1660 and using 1333mhz DDR3 memory.  I know people on other sites that are using GTX2080 in their T3500's and running a Xeon W3680 at 4.1ghz (using throttlestop) and getting performance greater than my other systems Core i7 4770K.

    Underestimation of Russian technical and scientific capability is the usual western racist sh*t. What is happening in Russia since 1999 is basically
    unprecedented. In the course of a single politician's career in office a massive country is rising like the mythical phoenix from its ashes. In the process it is
    demonstrating that nothing more than historical circumstance and sub-optimal social structures (monarchy and then communism) are what has
    held Russia back in the past. Russian technological development is boiling and it is outclassing the USSR by a large factor. And the vaunted west
    has no advantage over it. Unless you want to count debt financed GDP "growth" as a big deal.

    Anyone who thinks that Russia can't handle western sanctions is simply ignorant. The turnover time for development of domestic complex products like
    gas turbines, avionics, etc., to replace imports is spectacular. It proves my point about the existence of qualified workers, managers and physical
    plant. Internet "experts" simply have no clue about these details. You can see this from the moronic appeal to money as the one magic parameter
    that controls innovation and capability. This theory is utter BS and money is a symptom and not a cause. Your examples confirm that that money
    is not a dial on the human brain and the capability of a country to innovate. No, 3rd world countries do not prove that only money matters. In
    fact, they prove that without educated and talented cadres there is marginal development that fails to pull 3rd world countries out of their toilet
    existence. Nobody was throwing money at Russian missile designers during the 1990s, but they advanced Russian missile tech well beyond the level
    of the USSR.

    (As an OT: I found my GTX 970 was bottlenecked by my computer system. Upgrading to a 32 gigabyte quad channel 3.5 GHz six core socket 2011
    I7 has spectacularly improved the game experience. My old system was an Phenom II 4 core with 8 gigs of RAM. I am going to wait until the
    next Nvidia or ATI generation to start shopping again.)
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:14 pm

    The 2011 socket I will admit is a solid socket for Intel. You can pick up Xeon 1650v2's for $100 CAD and having quad channel DDR3 will gives it high DDR4 bandwidth for a fraction of the price.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:34 am

    Kimppis wrote:You are correct on Japan as well of course, but one can certainly find developed countries that have never prioritized exports as much as Japan. (China is another example btw, and a very recent one, since 2008 its dependency on exports has considerably declined.) Russia is not an East Asian "mercantilist" country, it's neither Japan nor India.


    I dont fetish export. It is just the way to accumulate capital + definitely  companies can  use economy of scale with their products. .  This model w proven in practice by Germany, Japan, Korea, China .

    Germany, Japan or  Korea are under US occupation. China - its sheer size forces it to expert otherwise hundreds millions of hungry people would run on the street. India has different setup too.

    My point here is Russia cannot close its economy it wants to develop. On the contrary should maximize number and depth of export markets to let companies grow.

    IMHO first geopolitical  task on Russia now is to rebuild Soviet Union 2 to expand its internal market size and her potential as well.
    The second one is to expand  trade India/China (40 % of worlds population)





    kvs wrote: Underestimation of Russian technical and scientific capability is the usual western racist sh*t.   {} 

    nobody here says this. Discussion is about export vs internal market to sustain hi tech development.

    And yes money is the key factor here. You need to fiance grants, research scientists. Otherwise you end up with poorly paid scientists who, in majority, dream only when to run to somewhere to get good salary. /how can you equip lsbs? accelerators ? scientific facilitates/labs?

    There is no country with scientific progress without investing in education/science first. Thats precisely what Putin is doing now BTW.



    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:14 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    General misconception.

    Russian market alone could be the one profiting and taking control of the Russian electronics industry.  

    internal makret is $2,5B even if you sell only Russian what is non doable (smartphones, TV, cars, fridges, microwaves, industrial robots)
    You still have turnover less 20% of Intel or roughly double of INVIDIA . Nope


    MTT wrote:They could cooperate with China for their market as well.  
    +++
    But an example is China's Zhaoxin is perfect example of this.
    +++
    They COULD at least work with foreign entities (Iran, NK, Vietnam, Venezuela, etc) on building cooperating and even offices in order to entice development and purchase of these microprocessors, but that wont happen anytime soon.

    I do agree, but this is called export tight? Isnt it using economy of scale to boost your turnover & profit & market share





    Putin ordered the summer to develop a national strategy in the field of artificial intelligence


    MOSCOW, February 27. / TASS /. Russian President Vladimir Putin commissioned by June 15, 2019 to develop a national strategy in the field of artificial intelligence. Such a point is contained in the list of instructions of the head of state published on Wednesday on the Kremlin’s official website following a message to the Federal Assembly.
    https://tass.ru/nauka/6163683
    Responsible for the implementation of this order is determined by the Government of the Russian Federation.

    In addition, until July 1, 2019, Putin instructed to work out additional measures to stimulate investment "in high-tech projects in the fields of artificial intelligence, the Internet of things, robotics, and the processing of large data arrays carried out by small and medium-sized businesses."




    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:08 am

    Negative. The internal market isn't $2. Whatever billion. It's much larger.

    Issue is the release of the systems. Elbrus itself is designed to be used for regular office and household use. But how many households have Elbrus microprocessors? How available are they?

    If let's say Russia banned the use of Intel and AMD processors in Russia tomorrow, you would see MCST sell $Billions worth.

    Let's do some math.

    If let's say (I'm throwing spit right now) each Elbrus processor costs around $150 per chip, and roughly 40,000,000 Russians use a PC, then that is $6B in sales alone.  That is just the CPU. Not mentioning need for HDD (GS tech makes those in Kaliningrad) and motherboards (Kraftway makes those for MCST processors).  So if a total PC costs about $500, then you get the picture. Then add in HPC market like scientific centers, Corporations and server farms, you will see billions more.

    Russia is low rate production at moment. But it's internal market is in the tens of billions for semi conductors.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:01 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    c) Japan did grow mainly because of export. Check timeline. Same thing is doing Korea now.  Now after tens years of accumulation Japan has enormous capital to invest/expert/live from + decent internal market.


    look @ Toyota in 2017.  10,4m cars per year built. Of which  4m in Japan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota#Production_and_sales_numbers

    You bring up Toyota car and the 4 million consumption in the Japanese market, but you didn't mention how the Japanese govt. heavily subsidizes Toyota by punishing the consumer...the Japanese govt. literally forces the Japanese consumer to buy and sell their cars after few years, and older used cars are heavily taxed by arbitrary technical inspections. Many 'used' cars in Japans are 3-5 years old at most, and rarely above that (because of heavy taxation).
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:36 am

    South Korea was the same. Actually, SK heavily subsidizes their companies that the entire country is ruled by 4 major companies and that's it. Hyundai, Samsung, LG and Ssangyong. They we're so heavily subsidized at first just to keep them alive. After they grew to a certain point, they subsidized themselves through lobbying and to keep a competitive edge, everything is subsidized for them.

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