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Militarov wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
Goliath crane installation in Zvezda:
.....
More pics:
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96598/
But that is Finnish crane from what i am aware
It's definitely imported, probably from Finland so yes
Why?
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Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
It's definitely imported, probably from Finland so yes
Why?
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Join date : 2016-11-06
Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
Points : 13414
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
miketheterrible wrote:Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.
Before this becomes another aircraft carrier discussion I would like to implore everyone to exercise restraint.
Yes it does suck that Russia has to import this stuff (even though they may be on the clock ATM).
But also let's not pretend that Russia had some master plan.
True, they might have one now but until less than a decade ago their only ambition was to become more blizzardy version of Saudi Arabia.
Industrialization came up only recently so it takes time for effects to kick in and it is faster to just buy one from abroad.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3752
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Chances are the Finns could make the crane faster then Russia could have so it would make sense to import it if they needed it right away and they could not do it themselves at the time table.
Better to do import it then have delays.
Better to do import it then have delays.
kvs- Posts : 15480
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PapaDragon wrote:miketheterrible wrote:Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.
Before this becomes another aircraft carrier discussion I would like to implore everyone to exercise restraint.
Yes it does suck that Russia has to import this stuff (even though they may be on the clock ATM).
But also let's not pretend that Russia had some master plan.
True, they might have one now but until less than a decade ago their only ambition was to become more blizzardy version of Saudi Arabia.
Industrialization came up only recently so it takes time for effects to kick in and it is faster to just buy one from abroad.
Militarov is trolling. We live in a global economy so it is often cheaper to buy foreign made goods and services.
So why would any Russian company pay more and wait years for some non-existent domestic production line to get started?
Even import substitution does not imply 100% self-reliance. Unless Russia wants to compete on the global market making
such cranes it may never bother starting production of this class.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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I don't agree with those assessments. And anyway, that is what Militarov would say and he isn't wrong either. I was being more exaggerating but lets be real here, Russia should be building it themselves. Finland isn't necessarily a friend of Russia but so far, lately, they have been pretty decent neighbors compared to other assholes. So I guess it is fine.
Anyway, I don't really care. I am glad the shipyard is going as well as it is. They need this.
Anyway, I don't really care. I am glad the shipyard is going as well as it is. They need this.
Isos- Posts : 11379
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miketheterrible wrote:I don't agree with those assessments. And anyway, that is what Militarov would say and he isn't wrong either. I was being more exaggerating but lets be real here, Russia should be building it themselves. Finland isn't necessarily a friend of Russia but so far, lately, they have been pretty decent neighbors compared to other assholes. So I guess it is fine.
Anyway, I don't really care. I am glad the shipyard is going as well as it is. They need this.
There isn't lot of countries that would buy such things. Most of them can produce it themselves. So I don't think Finland wishes to lose such a client. France did the mistake with Mistrals and it was really badly seen in France. Hopefully they sold them to egypt but if they didn't it would have been a big issue. Neither Ukraine, neither Usa or UK wanted to buy them. They just push you to do what they want and then no help. Tje same would occure in finland...
GarryB- Posts : 39673
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To be fair the main lesson from the Misral debacle is that even paid for contracts can be broken by americas bitches.
Ask me just 4-5 years ago if France was a bitch to America and i would have said not... France has pride... in itself and its customers.
The whole purpose of buying the Mistrals was that they would have both been in service by now in a largely already proven design.
I had to say I laughed out loud at the French reaction when a certain country that had promised to buy French helos if Russia did not get her carriers reneged on that deal too.
Similar to the feelings I had when terrorists were killing french people in Paris... imagine foreigners coming to your country and blowing things up and killing people... (Note I am from New Zealand BTW)
Russian companies probably could have come up with a crane that was able to do the job... I don't think they chose a Finn crane because it was from Finland.
Clearly it must have had better specs or was cheaper, or could be done within the required time frame.
Ask me just 4-5 years ago if France was a bitch to America and i would have said not... France has pride... in itself and its customers.
The whole purpose of buying the Mistrals was that they would have both been in service by now in a largely already proven design.
I had to say I laughed out loud at the French reaction when a certain country that had promised to buy French helos if Russia did not get her carriers reneged on that deal too.
Similar to the feelings I had when terrorists were killing french people in Paris... imagine foreigners coming to your country and blowing things up and killing people... (Note I am from New Zealand BTW)
Russian companies probably could have come up with a crane that was able to do the job... I don't think they chose a Finn crane because it was from Finland.
Clearly it must have had better specs or was cheaper, or could be done within the required time frame.
T-47- Posts : 269
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GarryB wrote:To be fair the main lesson from the Misral debacle is that even paid for contracts can be broken by americas bitches.
Ask me just 4-5 years ago if France was a bitch to America and i would have said not... France has pride... in itself and its customers.
The whole purpose of buying the Mistrals was that they would have both been in service by now in a largely already proven design.
I had to say I laughed out loud at the French reaction when a certain country that had promised to buy French helos if Russia did not get her carriers reneged on that deal too.
Similar to the feelings I had when terrorists were killing french people in Paris... imagine foreigners coming to your country and blowing things up and killing people... (Note I am from New Zealand BTW)
Russian companies probably could have come up with a crane that was able to do the job... I don't think they chose a Finn crane because it was from Finland.
Clearly it must have had better specs or was cheaper, or could be done within the required time frame.
Time is a big factor, also the limited money. You have to prioritize things. There are more important sectors to spend money for now than building big cranes. I'm pretty sure Russian industry will come up with big cranes as well once the chaos settle up.
GarryB- Posts : 39673
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The thing is that Russia will have companies that make cranes but we are talking about a huge crane... not something they will make very often... not a normal part of their inventory of products.
The point is that this shipyard is rather big and will be making some big ships, so they will need big cranes, but they wont be needing 500 of them.
If we were talking about 100 ton capacity cranes and they needed 1,000 of them, then it would make sense to get a Russian company to make them because there would be plenty of work in it and likely future maintainence and support work needed.
When you only need one or two really big ones there is no point getting investing in a small Russian company that makes small cranes to build one or two really big ones... it makes more sense to find a company that makes big ones and has experience and is ready to make an existing proven design.
Obviously we are not talking a weapon.
If we were talking about a missile and we went to an AAM maker and said we want a 1,000km range AAM we would never consider foreign makers... that is just a given.
With a crane it is not such an issue.
In fact having a Russian maker of heavy cranes really only makes sense if there is a viable market for Russian heavy cranes. Without a market spending money to create a Russian heavy crane company and then just make one crane is stupid and wasteful.
The point is that this shipyard is rather big and will be making some big ships, so they will need big cranes, but they wont be needing 500 of them.
If we were talking about 100 ton capacity cranes and they needed 1,000 of them, then it would make sense to get a Russian company to make them because there would be plenty of work in it and likely future maintainence and support work needed.
When you only need one or two really big ones there is no point getting investing in a small Russian company that makes small cranes to build one or two really big ones... it makes more sense to find a company that makes big ones and has experience and is ready to make an existing proven design.
Obviously we are not talking a weapon.
If we were talking about a missile and we went to an AAM maker and said we want a 1,000km range AAM we would never consider foreign makers... that is just a given.
With a crane it is not such an issue.
In fact having a Russian maker of heavy cranes really only makes sense if there is a viable market for Russian heavy cranes. Without a market spending money to create a Russian heavy crane company and then just make one crane is stupid and wasteful.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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.
Civilian or military?
Zvezda shipyard will lay down first four vessels in September 2017
http://www.en.portnews.ru/news/243940/
Civilian or military?
Zvezda shipyard will lay down first four vessels in September 2017
http://www.en.portnews.ru/news/243940/
hoom- Posts : 2352
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From recollection the whole basis for the rework is a contract for 7* 200,000ton tankers.
Apparently they have started on the big drydock now too.
The Goliath is completed now (& confirmed thats an Oscar looking tiny next to it)
As with others above as long as you're able to successfully source them overseas there's not much point trying to create a Goliath class crane domestically, there just isn't enough global demand for many manufacturers.
Even US uses imported ones eg the one at Newport News was built by Krupp http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1558:newport-news-shipbuilding-name-is-back-on-giant-crane&Itemid=257
Apparently they have started on the big drydock now too.
The Goliath is completed now (& confirmed thats an Oscar looking tiny next to it)
As with others above as long as you're able to successfully source them overseas there's not much point trying to create a Goliath class crane domestically, there just isn't enough global demand for many manufacturers.
Even US uses imported ones eg the one at Newport News was built by Krupp http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1558:newport-news-shipbuilding-name-is-back-on-giant-crane&Itemid=257
AlfaT8- Posts : 2477
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Looks like it's mostly done, now all we have to do is wait for the order to be given, any words from Rogozin, Shoygu or Putin?
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Join date : 2015-04-26
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hoom wrote:............
The Goliath is completed now (& confirmed thats an Oscar looking tiny next to it)
Compared to that Goliath entire shipyard looks tiny...
There are two Oscars in overhaul there currently: К-132 Irkutsk and К-442 Chelabinsk
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96818/
You can clearly see other one in this pic:
Fist ship laid down might be this civilian one for Rosneft. Anyone know what kind of ship this is?
T-47- Posts : 269
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AlfaT8 wrote:Looks like it's mostly done, now all we have to do is wait for the order to be given, any words from Rogozin, Shoygu or Putin?
PapaDragon put a link. words from Rogozin.
PapaDragon wrote:.
Civilian or military?
Zvezda shipyard will lay down first four vessels in September 2017
http://www.en.portnews.ru/news/243940/
I think civilian. For Gazprom or Rosneft. They are the main investor in this shipyard after all. Also GPV 2025 doesn't have any indications that a shipyard with this size is needed right now.
T-47- Posts : 269
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PapaDragon wrote:
Fist ship laid down might be this civilian one for Rosneft. Anyone know what kind of ship this is?
I think that ship is a reinforced ice-class multi-functional support vessel. Rosneft ordered two of them, will be built on Zvezda shipyard.
http://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/rosneft-orders-ice-class-support-vessels-at-zvezda-shipyard/
George1- Posts : 18400
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About the future of the factory of SSK "Zvezda"
Lay out and here. The interview is interesting because they do not talk with a big boss, but with a person directly from production.
Lay out and here. The interview is interesting because they do not talk with a big boss, but with a person directly from production.
George1- Posts : 18400
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Some photos of ships under construction in PJSC Shipyard "Severnaya Verf"
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2796766.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2796766.html
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Zvezda drydock construction:
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97623/
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Join date : 2015-04-26
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.
Pella undergoing upgrades, more pics in link:
Зашивка стен нового эллинга ЛСЗ «Пелла»
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97655/
Pella undergoing upgrades, more pics in link:
Зашивка стен нового эллинга ЛСЗ «Пелла»
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97655/
Tingsay- Posts : 183
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Pella is in good hands!
It needs to take on Project 20386 Derzky immediately. I'm certain they'll finish the job faster than Severnaya and Amur combined.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Tingsay wrote:
Pella is in good hands!
It needs to take on Project 20386 Derzky immediately. I'm certain they'll finish the job faster than Severnaya and Amur combined.
Agreed.
Been saying that for quite some time, they are more than ready for corvettes.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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'
Not military vessels but Zvezda just started working on 4 (FOUR) vessels simultaneously. This is how you build ships, not one at a time with decade long pause between 4 ships
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97746/
Not military vessels but Zvezda just started working on 4 (FOUR) vessels simultaneously. This is how you build ships, not one at a time with decade long pause between 4 ships
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97746/
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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This is Russia's most modern shipyard and biggest too after its ready to build 114,000 ton ships. This shipyard will be classified as strategic while the other shipyards will have to get their shit together.
AlfaT8- Posts : 2477
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IMO, they need another one of these Shipyards in the North.