Russian Ground Forces: News #2

I've always viewed ATVs as militarily useless gimmicks only hyped due to unrealistic shooter games and pushed into service by armchair soldiers.

1. No possibility for weapon placement
2. Everything an ATV can do a jeep could do just as well or better(cargo capacity, speed, towing, weapons, also airdroppable, armor)
3. Completely unprotected driver

GarryB wrote:Means two men can move significant distances fairly quickly and to a level go off road.

A Metis-M1 team could be very mobile and carry a dozen or so rounds in saddle bags and kill tanks and point targets reliably from 2km range with a low signature guided missile.

If the alternative is walking then it is much faster and your troops don't arrive tired.

It expands the reach of the troops from a few kms to a few tens of kms.

Force multiplier.

So you're basically describing a jeep. You can do everything you said with a UAZ 469 but with more men and can also mount a PKM or an AGL together with the metis.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:I've always viewed ATVs as militarily useless gimmicks only hyped due to unrealistic shooter games and pushed into service by armchair soldiers.

1. No possibility for weapon placement
2. Everything an ATV can do a jeep could do just as well or better(cargo capacity, speed, towing, weapons, also airdroppable, armor)
3. Completely unprotected driver

ATVs are most definitely very useful vehicles for a military but a lot of people have wrong perception of them, in part, due to video games.

ATVs are method of getting from point A to point B. Plain and simple.

They do have weapons but they are there either as cargo or as extra firepower in case of ambush.

ATVs are not combat vehicles. Their purpose is to quickly get near combat zone where you dismount and proceed into combat on foot.

They are meant to reduce legwork of infantrymen and provide space for some extra gear that may come in handy but which would otherwise be left at the base due to weight.

ATVs are not supposed to do the job of jeeps that you mentioned. Jeeps are proper vehicles, ATVs in military are simply another type of additional equipment. Do not let the fact that they have wheels fool you.

When you use standard unarmored vehicles for troop transport you are making a huge gamble. If shell fakes out off-roader or pick-up you risk losing up to 10 men or more, in case of tarp covered truck 20 or 30. If shell hits ATV you lose 2 men at most.
But like I said, ATVs are just additional gear not troop transports.

ATVs are cheap. Extremely cheap. You can buy trainload of ATVs for a price of used export version of average unarmed APC.
Because of this troops can treat them as disposable gear. If you are in a hurry to board the helo, for example, then just board the helo and forget about ATVs. Leave them behind and never think about them again because you have ten more in storage back at the base for every one you left behind.
Like I sad, cheap...

Maintenance is piece of cake. Mechanicaly wise they are glorified Vespas.

They carry more than enough cargo for their size and a lot, lot more than two men could ever carry on their own. You are more efficient in combat  if you did not have to hike 10 miles to reach combat in the first place. Also, you got there lot sooner.

Your temate got shot and needs evac ASAP. Having couple of ATVs parked half a mile back could literaly be a lifesaver in a pinch. We are talking about difference between 5 minutes and 60 minutes before reaching medical help.

As long as you do not try to use them as you would in a video game, you are golden.

All in all, not bad for something that, unlike Jeep or something similar, is cheap, simple and, I can't emphasise this enough, completely disposable.

grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

Project Canada wrote:grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

This should be ordered based on appearance alone.

Russia's 20th combined army in the Western Military District will be complemented with more units and troops from other military districts

http://tass.ru/en/russia/814207

"Tractor plants" will be shown at the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil new variants of the BMP-3


http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2182750

For the first time will showcase modifications infantry fighting vehicle modules "Derivation" and "Dragoon", and the prototype of self-propelled anti-tank gun "Octopus-SDM1"

MOSCOW, August 12. /TASS/. Concern "tractor plants" for the first time will present at the exhibition Russia Arms Expo - 2015 (RAE-2015), which will be held in September in Nizhny Tagil, layouts of new modifications of the BMP-3 with modules "Derivation" and "Dragoons". This was reported by TASS in the press service of the concern.
"For the first time will be shown modifications of infantry fighting vehicle BMP-3 with modules "Derivation" and "Dragoons", and a prototype self-propelled anti-tank guns (SPTP) "Sprut-SDM," - said the press service.

In the exhibition Russia Arms Expo 2015 will be attended by the military-industrial complex of five foreign countries
As reported by the interviewer. TASS in the Department of military equipment "Tractor plants", BMP-3 "Derivation" received a 57-mm automatic cannon, placed in unmanned combat module development the Central research Institute "Burevestnik" (part of "Uralvagonzavod").
BMP-3 "Dragun" differs from the basic model changed internal layout - in particular, the power plant is transferred to the front end, and the troop compartment is equipped with a ramp. This model is supposed to equip a combat module with 100-mm gun A, 30-mm automatic cannon A and machine gun PKT 7.62 mm.
In addition, RAE-2015 will be presented a modification of the BMP-3 fire control system "Vityaz" assault vehicle BMD-4M and BTR-MDM, developed for the airborne troops of Russia. The exhibition "tractor plants" are planning to show and future civilian equipment, including crawler tractor TM-140. "Almost all of the technique will be demonstrated in action", - noted in press service.
It is expected that the exhibition RAE-2015, which will be held from 9 to 12 September, will be attended by not less than 160 companies. The event will be presented, in particular, defense enterprises of Belarus, Kazakhstan, Turkey and France.

So maybe now 57mm can replace combo 100mm and 30mm taking more ammo and having extra AA abilities.

and below study about new AA ammo for 57mm but5 is you can make airburstsa and pa ck explosives as much as for 76mm gun this option can be interesting.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/10/57.html

PapaDragon wrote:

Project Canada wrote:grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

This should be ordered based on appearance alone.

definitely !

BTW GAZ Punisher driving already on Russian roads so maybe not that bad with new designs

Project Canada wrote:grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

This is nice and everything but just like with the Typhoon, I fear that KAMAZ is taking too much initiative and is spending its money coming up with new designs and prototypes that the MoD hasn't asked for, doesn't need and will not purchase.

Of course sometimes the risk pays off; if KAMAZ gets some interest for its latest developments from say the MVD or foreign customers.
And of course, it's important for KAMAZ and other companies to continue to push the envelope and invest in R&D and concepts; otherwise they will fall behind.

flamming_python wrote:UAZ Patriots defo looking fine.

Suitable replacement for the UAZ-469 series.

Issue is that half the civilian transmission parts are German, So Ulyanovsk might go back to Korea to insure there are no "sanctions" around the corner.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:UAZ Patriots defo looking fine.

Suitable replacement for the UAZ-469 series.

Issue is that half the civilian transmission parts are German, So Ulyanovsk might go back to Korea to insure there are no "sanctions" around the corner.

Where did you get that from?
Are you talking about the planned automatic transmission?
The Army will buy only manual transmissions, and as far as I know they are 100% domestic.

TheArmenian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:UAZ Patriots defo looking fine.

Suitable replacement for the UAZ-469 series.

Issue is that half the civilian transmission parts are German, So Ulyanovsk might go back to Korea to insure there are no "sanctions" around the corner.

Where did you get that from?
Are you talking about the planned automatic transmission?
The Army will buy only manual transmissions, and as far as I know they are 100% domestic.

Yep the New Trans for the Civies was supposed to be German from ZF wasn't it to go along with the steering. Right now is Dymos for the trans and Zf for the steering.

Some sorts of comic relief... feel free to laugh

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-ways-the-russian-military-is-falling-apart-2015-8

Project Canada wrote:grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

Can you provide a link?

higurashihougi wrote:Some sorts of comic relief... feel free to laugh

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-ways-the-russian-military-is-falling-apart-2015-8

Let hope all enemy think same  

Russia do the job

No enemy thinks that russia is weak, politics show exactly the opposite of this garbage. The aim of such garbage is to keep moral high among their cannon fodder.

The strategy of flattering or insulting your opponent was since thousands years always the same.

First and before you start a war you need to keep and maintain the moral of your soldiers high, that is how lies and myths started about enemy armies, like Arm eating autoloaders of russian/soviet tanks, that the soviets/russians do not give a shit about their soldiers despite being the inventor of all defensive and most offensive technologies for tanks and other weapons plattforms, they constantly smear that not just technology wise they are the undisputed, another lie to keep moral high of their own and enemy soldiers low, but they also aim such propaganda on moral level, because no one wants to fight another country when they believe they are normal people, they need to be made the enemy, an alien, a subspecies, barbarians that have no regard for life and are just existing to feed upon babies or agony of normal innocent people.

The basic principle of war preperations and Propaganda before war a divided in several points that occure through history hundreds if not thousands of times.

Principles of Propaganda:

We do not want war!

The enemy is responsible for the war all by himself!

Demonisation of the leader of the rivaling country.

We protect a noble cause and not personal interests!

The enemy committes atrocities willingly, when we do it, it is collateral damage!

The enemy uses prohibited weapons.

We have minor losses, the enemy's losses are tremendous.

Intelligent and cultivated people are supporting our cause.

Our cause is holy.

Who doubts our propaganda is working for the enemy and is a traitor

After the war to glorify himself the winner starts immidiatley the propaganda of the enemy having Wunderwaffen (US lies about Nazi Germany), he was the biggest army (Lie about Iraqi Army), the strongest air defense (US lie about Iraqi AD). This propaganda is aimed to restrengthen the countries position globaly as a big player that beat a mighty army to boosten own soldiers moral and weaken others.

flamming_python wrote:

Project Canada wrote:grabbed this report from a Russian military facebook page

KAMAZ develops draft promising BTR wheelbases 6 and hybrid. Anti-mine V-shaped bottom and armament-7, 62 mm PKT machine gun or "cord" 12, 7 mm, depending on the configuration.

Capacity-12 people, including two crew members.

This is nice and everything but just like with the Typhoon, I fear that KAMAZ is taking too much initiative and is spending its money coming up with new designs and prototypes that the MoD hasn't asked for, doesn't need and will not purchase.

Of course sometimes the risk pays off; if KAMAZ gets some interest for its latest developments from say the MVD or foreign customers.
And of course, it's important for KAMAZ and other companies to continue to push the envelope and invest in R&D and concepts; otherwise they will fall behind.

Most of the prototypes were only CAD work. Very little has made it to pre-proto, proto or even pre-prod. The cost is negligable given Kamaz is making money.

A nice little gem from VPK-news about a new integrated recon intelligence gathering/artillery fire control system:

the general director of JSC" Russian electronics "decided to appeal on the issue to the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, the chairman of board of the Russian defense industry, Dmitry Rogozin - said Lieutenant General Tsukanov. - It was reported that Roselectronika with the support of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Sciences completed an integrated artillery fire fighting system, which in orders from the Ministry of Defence 10 June 2014 found fit for entry into the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

This reconnaissance-fire system increases defeating the enemy by 2-2.5 times, saves ammo by 10-15 percent, reduces cycle management division 3-3.5 times, management of intelligence - in 4-5 times. There are other positive characteristics, which are contained in the act of state tests.

http://vpk-news.ru/articles/26605

Should complement nicely with the cost-effective GLONASS guided shells!

''The Lowdown on Russia's Revolutionary New Tank Gun''

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150821/1026013318/military-armor-gun-russia.html

''Discussing the tremendous combat potential for the new AU-220M 57 mm automatic gun, experts speaking for Russian Ministry of Defense television network Zvezda have described the new weapon as being one of the best initiatives to be implemented by the Russian military in over a decade...''