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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:08 am

    I think its gotta be the shipyard, especially if they never even started construction.

    When is the last time a much delayed project got cancelled?
    Only one I can think of is Amur nearly lost their 20380 contract but they got frightened, got their shit together & have pushed out their 2nd pretty quickly, 3rd has come even quicker despite having the new Zaslon mast & now got an extra 6 ships contracted.
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    Post  franco on Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:32 pm

    Plus they have the contract for the other 4 Pacific 22800's.
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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:02 pm

    Hmm there is suggestion at Balancer that its a ploy to get Vostochnaya to go bankrupt -> get rolled into USC -> production back on.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:30 pm

    hoom wrote:Hmm there is suggestion at Balancer that its a ploy to get Vostochnaya to go bankrupt -> get rolled into USC -> production back on.

    How is the order book for that shipyard?
    And was the management ineffective?
    Otherwise it could have made sense to assign the 22800 for the Pacific fleet to that shipyard in Vladivostok (since as far as I remember it cannot build large corvettes like 20380), and let Amur shipyard concentrate on the 20380...)

    Anyway,  if they are not able to win civilian orders,  maybe it makes sense to let it go bankrupt and then to include it in the USC...

    If there is place to expand it, it would be beneficial to have a shipyard capable of building frigates and light destroyers in Vladivostok, by the way.

    It should be something similar to what should happen with Aviacor (the aircraft factory in Samara, currently owned by Deripaska,  and UAC)
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:31 pm

    hoom wrote:Hmm there is suggestion at Balancer that its a ploy to get Vostochnaya to go bankrupt -> get rolled into USC -> production back on.

    Doubtful

    They haven't started production, not a good thing but not unfixable

    But combined with constant shortage of engines and scraping of INF treaty question was asked if these ships are as needed as they once were especially ones from a slow shipyard


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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:37 am

    I think its gotta be the shipyard, especially if they never even started construction.

    If they found they could not get engines they would not have started production until they were sure they could secure some.

    I would say if they had not started construction then it would be because of uncertainty about the engines as that would make getting loans and credit almost impossible... who is going to loan you money to make something when something as critical as the propulsion system is not certain yet...

    Which company wants to get stuck with a half built ship filling up the slipway waiting for engines... to be designed...

    When is the last time a much delayed project got cancelled?

    Which suggests the engines they need are not coming... they clearly have to get new engines which likely means a ship redesign...

    But combined with constant shortage of engines and scraping of INF treaty question was asked if these ships are as needed as they once were especially ones from a slow shipyard

    I always thought having lots of corvettes with land attack cruise missiles was a serious waste of a lot of corvettes... the problem is now solved as the removal of the INF treaty means they can attach wheeled launchers to their Iskander batteries already in service... cheap and quick and easy, and so they can load more useful things into the Corvettes now instead.
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    Post  hoom on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:53 am

    How is the order book for that shipyard?
    Its reported that the 2* 22800 are half their work for the next 4yrs so its a pretty dire order book.
    Not a huge yard though.

    I always thought having lots of corvettes with land attack cruise missiles was a serious waste of a lot of corvettes.
    They're also corvettes with some scary powerful anti-ship missiles.

    Which suggests the engines they need are not coming.
    I think the engines will still be coming eventually, just someone else will get the order, probably Amur as long as it keeps pushing ships out reasonably quick.

    Yes I'd certainly believe the delay starting is the desire not to have a part built ship waiting on engines but it also leaves them looking like a shipyard in financial trouble thats sat on whatever initial funding for several years without even starting -> Govt may reasonably try to get that $$ back & avoid the risk of it disappearing.

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