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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pm

    well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie. In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck. Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:24 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.
    It's highly amusing those Indian fan boys say Arjun is better than the T-90, and they say they'll make their own 5th gen jet (implying that they don't need the Su-57), even though they still haven't mastered 30+ years of 4th gen production with all of the failed attempts with Tejas.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:27 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.
    It's highly amusing those Indian fan boys say Arjun is better than the T-90, and they say they'll make their own 5th gen jet (implying that they don't need the Su-57), even though they still haven't mastered 30+ years of 4th gen production with all of the failed attempts with Tejas.

    Let alone the fact that the Tejas uses all foreign parts. It is as much Indian as the British government is.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:43 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.

    But I am not basing my analysis on the point source for the fake news, but its propagation in the mind space of NATzO citizens. At this
    very moment thousands of bloggers are saying all sorts of shit. But basically none of this "news" gets propagated beyond their blogs.
    By contrast all sorts of inane drivel about Russia flies around the world without any source checking. The Putin billions claim is a perfect
    example of this phenomenon.

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    Post  kvs on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:44 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.

    They can keep on talking trash, but their development curve speaks volumes about objective reality.

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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:25 pm

    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.

    They can keep on talking trash, but their development curve speaks volumes about objective reality.


    They are trying to associate that they are better off buying American jets rather than Russian claiming Russian is shit.

    So I pointed out that in 3 months US lost 3 F-16's. And US has far better maintenance in terms of professionalism and the parts access than India does. Or fact that F-35 and F-22 seem to face a lot of issues in crashing.

    But MiG-29 is apparently shit according to them.
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    Post  kvs on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:32 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:well, instead of a NATO country member saying it, it was a Ukie.  In other words, hearsay but no evidence.

    FYI, an Indian MiG-29 crashed and Indians all go into this mode saying Russian jets suck.  Yet they ignore the fact that India has been known for absolute shit maintenance and stealing spare parts replacing with substandard ones.

    Doesnt stop Indians thoughsaying stupid shit.

    They can keep on talking trash, but their development curve speaks volumes about objective reality.


    They are trying to associate that they are better off buying American jets rather than Russian claiming Russian is shit.

    So I pointed out that in 3 months US lost 3 F-16's. And US has far better maintenance in terms of professionalism and the parts access than India does. Or fact that F-35 and F-22 seem to face a lot of issues in crashing.

    But MiG-29 is apparently shit according to them.

    Facts will never get in the way of the favourite delusions of idiots. Don't waste your time. If India feels the compulsion to suck Uncle Scumbag's
    schlong, then it is free to do so. Yanqui shit will be more flavourful to these morons.

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:23 am

    I will repeat that the 48 ton weight of the 7 axle T-14 is impressively low. It is the size of an Abrams but does not weigh over
    65 tons. As for its height. It is the turret that is exposed. Since it is unmanned this changes the game. A higher vantage point
    is able to better see far, but the lack of volume makes it a hard target to hit. Even a direct hit would not kill the tank.

    You make a very important point... one of the reasons the commander of a modern tank directs the driver as to where to drive is because the view from the hull is generally pretty poor compared to the view from the top of the turret.

    There is a swedish tank that does away with a turret and has a gun in the chassis that is elevate and depressed by the suspension of the vehicle and it is well known that it has poor visibility from the vehicle because of its low height.

    It is hard to emphasise enough the advantage of having a turret view, which the entire crew of the Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang vehicles share... expanded even further with the ability to use tethered UAVs with thermal and radar sensors to view the space around the vehicle from a god perspective the only like of which would be in computer games... without exposing your head and body out of the top of the tank...

    All the crew can share the turret top view of the surroundings and not just on screens but also likely via helmet mounted viewing systems that give them a virtual view through the armour at the world outside the vehicle...

    All of the western tanks have heavy turrets to protect the crew. The T-14 no longer needs this protection. It can probably survive
    a sabot penetration without exploding. In some sense the turret has become disposable but we still do not know the shell
    handling in this turret.

    If a round actually makes contact with the turret most of the time it will simply punch completely through making a relatively small hole right through. This will not really effect the operation of the vehicle very much at all and it should be able to resist multiple hits before there is any problems... the inside of the turret could be purged with nitrogen so no fires should start even with HEAT penetrations... or APHEI penetrations...

    It pacifies the fears of the media consumers who need to believe that Russia cannot resist the "invincibility" of the western horde.

    It is a catch 22 situation though... they are both at the same time bankrupt and on the verge of collapse, and at the same time a bigger threat to the western world than ISIS... how can they be useless if we spend all this money on weapons and theirs are better, but the fact that theirs are better means we need to spend more money on our military because our superior western tactics and training will mean we will prevail of course...

    Too bad for NATzO vermin, but the eastern front is never easy and this time around it will be the most difficult of all.

    Especially when NATO tanks and planes need air conditioned tents to keep them safe over night...

    Let alone the fact that the Tejas uses all foreign parts. It is as much Indian as the British government is.

    So does the Arjun tank....

    The Putin billions claim is a perfect
    example of this phenomenon.

    Yeah, a friend of mine is convinced he has billions tucked away somewhere... when I mentioned Porochenkos income increased 900% while in office in a US supported democracy he didn't say much...

    But MiG-29 is apparently shit according to them.

    When it was first revealed in the 80s it was the super boogeyman in the west... a Soviet super plane... all the best features of the F-16 and F-18 all rolled in to one, but after spending the 90s practising against very early model 29s operated by west german pilots they got a bit cocky and thought they knew everything about the aircraft... plus there was still the Flanker they could use as the boogeyman to get funding when they needed to upgrade their existing types.

    The main shock of the 29 was that WVR fighting was going to be at the very best one all in terms of fighter vs fighter so they switched to BVR AMRAAM which really didn't get much funding or priority until they tested their best planes and pilots against the MiG-29... it was actually rather hilarious because they didn't have access to all the AAMs it could use so they didn't really get a complete picture of the aircraft anyway... but western experts can be blind.

    Facts will never get in the way of the favourite delusions of idiots. Don't waste your time. If India feels the compulsion to suck Uncle Scumbag's
    schlong, then it is free to do so. Yanqui shit will be more flavourful to these morons.

    When it comes to learning... experience is the best and harshest teachers... when they find out how expensive US support is they will recognise what they had and desperately want it back...
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    Post  AJ-47 on Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:42 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    AJ-47 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Is the engine for the Armta family is canceled? and for the time being the engine that being used is the A-35-3A?
    No reputable source has ever reported this. There's plenty of fake news sites who live off click bait to direct ad banner traffic, but besides that nothing to report.

    Well it seems that the engine for the project was canceled and that’s part of the delay in the project.
    Below is a paragraph from Vicki.

    In 2019 it was announced that the first 12 tanks would be delivered by the end of that year, but by November the delivery forecast slipped to "late 2019 or early 2020. In mid January 2020 the head of Rostec said no Armata-platform vehicles including T-14 tanks had been delivered, and in February the CEO of Uralvagonzavod only said that Armata-platform armour (not necessarily T-14 tanks) would start shipping in 2020. Furthermore, also in February 2020 it became evident that the set of requirements for the intended engine of the tank were not met by the construction bureau and the project of development of the engine would be closed in first quarter of 2020, further delaying the introduction of the tank for an unspecified time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:11 am

    That information was sourced from this website:



    https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/russia-will-not-mass-produce-t-14-armata-main-battle-tank/

    Which basically states Russia can't afford Armata based tanks and was written in 2018...

    Wouldn't rely on that wiki page too much...
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    Post  kvs on Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:10 pm



    Hilarious Bell-Textron propaganda video showing how their proposed Apache type helicopter will be taking out Russian T-14 tanks.

    These morons do not have any idea of Russian capability. They treat Russia like a 3rd world country that has no capacity to
    develop both measures and counter-measures. The T-14 will have the ability to blow any yanqui Apache type helicopter out
    of the sky. They will not be sitting defenseless against yaqnui "might". Not only is the reactive armour enough to handle
    US air to surface missiles (ones that such a class of helicopters can lift), the T-14 will likely have some hypersonic SA missiles
    designed specifically to take out ground attack aircraft and "tank hunters" that the yanquis are betting the bank on.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:07 am

    kvs wrote:

    Hilarious Bell-Textron propaganda video showing how their proposed Apache type helicopter will be taking out Russian T-14 tanks.

    These morons do not have any idea of Russian capability.   They treat Russia like a 3rd world country that has no capacity to
    develop both measures and counter-measures.    The T-14 will have the ability to blow any yanqui Apache type helicopter out
    of the sky.   They will not be sitting defenseless against yaqnui "might".    Not only is the reactive armour enough to handle
    US air to surface missiles (ones that such a class of helicopters can lift), the T-14 will likely have some hypersonic SA missiles
    designed specifically to take out ground attack aircraft and "tank hunters" that the yanquis are betting the bank on.

    I saw the video and chuckled. The USSR mbt's has had the ability to take out helicopters since the 60's with their GLATGM's, while Western mbt's only had coaxial 'anti-helicopter' heavy machine guns with their rather poorly performing characteristics against flying targets. By the time anti-helicopter heavy machine guns were introduced on Western mbt's they were already obsolete, as even helicopters from the 60's were capable of flying well outside the envelope of heavy machine guns, which was usually a measly 2 km. Combine the small attack envelope of heavy machine guns with the slow rotation speed of mbt turrets, and you could quickly tell that they'd have laughably bad results against aerial targets. In most cases dedicated SPAAG and SAMS (specifically SHORAD) were the actual threats to attack helicopters, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason anti-helicopter heavy machine guns were introduced was to quell any question of Western mbt's weakness towards CAS.

    Speaking on The T-14, which will both have GLATM's (munitions which are still not widely accessible to Western MBT's) and ATGM's like Kornet which are more than capable of taking out attack helicopters, attack drones, CAS planes like Warthogs and Spooky's.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:17 am

    well, one thing the helicopters will have advantage in is its speed and possibly range. I figure that the helicopters in question would have ranges 20+km which would be out of the T-14's engagement range. But that is why armored columns usually have AD systems attached to them like Tor in order to shoot down such targets.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:47 am

    miketheterrible wrote:well, one thing the helicopters will have advantage in is its speed and possibly range.  I figure that the helicopters in question would have ranges 20+km which would be out of the T-14's engagement range.  But that is why armored columns usually have AD systems attached to them like Tor in order to shoot down such targets.

    That 500% burn rate increase from copper nanoparticles changes the game completely. A small 10 km range missile becomes hypersonic with a range over
    20 km. We have not seen the full flowering of the missile era and the associated obliteration of all the WWII-era concepts of warfare.

    I am quite sure that the T-14 will be equipped with hypersonic missiles and not just Kornet type missiles. Kornet is great for infantry. A tank
    can carry fancier missiles. Also, the tank support vehicle called "Terminator" will become something else.

    BTW, operating an Apache 20 km away makes it rather useless for targeting tanks unless they plan to fire over the horizon missiles guided
    by UAV recon units. Russia can play that game too.



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    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:23 am

    The fundamental problem is that you can camouflage a land based vehicle and make it rather hard to see or detect with sensors, but a helicopter is not difficult to detect over rather enormous ranges... a MiG-35 could detect a low flying or hovering helo at over 100km...

    Russia is perfecting anti drone systems, so US platforms might need to find their own targets which will render them vulnerable to all sorts of threats...
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:13 pm

    Russia Claims New T-14 'Armata' Tank Can Fight on Mars

    We are in March , any update ?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:16 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:Russia Claims New T-14 'Armata' Tank Can Fight on Mars

    We are in March , any update ?

    It's this year. Probably around May.

    Reason is they do this as symbolic. They plan to lay down some helicopter carriers on May 9th as well.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:32 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:Russia Claims New T-14 'Armata' Tank Can Fight on Mars

    We are in March , any update ?

    It's this year.  Probably around May.

    Reason is they do this as symbolic.  They plan to lay down some helicopter carriers on May 9th as well.

    What about the engine problems
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:49 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:Russia Claims New T-14 'Armata' Tank Can Fight on Mars

    We are in March , any update ?

    It's this year.  Probably around May.

    Reason is they do this as symbolic.  They plan to lay down some helicopter carriers on May 9th as well.

    What about the engine problems

    What engine problems?
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:01 pm

    What engine problems?

    A lot of sources mentioned that the engine faced some problems and it was one of the reasons that get the project delayed .

    At this state, it is unlikely that the 2022 deadline will be met. Reasons for the delay reportedly include a host of technical problems with the T-14 Armata’s engine, transmission, and thermal sights.

    Source
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:24 pm

    And where exactly is that quote coming from?  Only thing is from a Ukrainian blogger and that is total horseshit.

    I'll explain

    Thermal imagers used for the Armata have already been cleared and used in T-90M upgrades and other tanks.  I have posted about this long before.  It is the TPK-K thermal imager using the ФЭМ18М-03 640×512 MWIR cooled imager system

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 8 BcMUxma

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5826p175-russian-made-scopes-and-optics#234497

    https://pikabu.ru/story/rossiyskie_teplovizionnyie_matritsyi_6011136

    Here is the order:

    https://rt-ci.ru/purchase_information/?id=130900

    This same thermal imagers been used and tested going back to 2013 but using a weaker matrices.  This newer device uses more advanced matrices.

    And this puts the article to great question - What is his source?  It is assumed, that is what.  The thermal imager used is now already in service with existing tanks and already development for more cleared (T-90M, T-80, T-72B3).  And this was due to the fact Russia couldn't buy Thermal imagers since 2014.  So let me ask, what were they using before hand?  That is right, they had to move to domestic production since the microbelometers where French and not Russian.  Now they are Russian and has been for quite a few years.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:28 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    What engine problems?

    A lot of sources mentioned that the engine faced some problems and it was one of the reasons that get the project delayed .

    At this state, it is unlikely that the 2022 deadline will be met. Reasons for the delay reportedly include a host of technical problems with the T-14 Armata’s engine, transmission, and thermal sights.

    Source

    Go look at the diplomats articles on Russia (and also China) in totality, and come back to me if they still represent a fair viewpoint on Russia, etc. Also how about reading their laughable article on Syria:

    https://thediplomat.com/2012/07/managing-the-endgame-in-syria/

    The whole scale back of T-14 program can easily be explained by the fact that more money is facilitated away from tactical programs (such as MBT's and IFV's) and directed towards strategic programs (Kinzhal, Zircon, Poseidon, Avantegard, S-500, Nudol, etc.) while still paying off their national debts and maintaining budget surpluses.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:31 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    What engine problems?

    A lot of sources mentioned that the engine faced some problems and it was one of the reasons that get the project delayed .

    At this state, it is unlikely that the 2022 deadline will be met. Reasons for the delay reportedly include a host of technical problems with the T-14 Armata’s engine, transmission, and thermal sights.

    Source

    Go look at the diplomats articles on Russia (and also China) in totality, and come back to me if they still represent a fair viewpoint on Russia, etc. Also how about reading their laughable article on Syria:

    https://thediplomat.com/2012/07/managing-the-endgame-in-syria/

    The whole scale back of T-14 program can easily be explained by the fact that more money is facilitated away from tactical programs (such as MBT's and IFV's) and directed towards strategic programs (Kinzhal, Zircon, Poseidon, Avantegard, S-500, Nudol, etc.) while still paying off their national debts and maintaining budget surpluses.

    The defence industry just got a bailout of 300B Rubles.  So now they are pushed for more development.  As stipulated by agreement the Armata family of 100 vehicles ordered are for this year.

    I should add its a product of Rostec now and so is NPO Orion which is a part of Schvab company which makes the thermal imagers.  The Engine theory, you know where it all stemmed from?  From that 1 model used during the may day parade that broke down.  Yes, that one model.

    And they made a whole article based upon assumptions of it.  How wonderful.  They cant even get basics right like the thermal imager.  The whole family of Russian tanks will be using that thermal imager.  So far already in service with T-72B3 and T-80BVM and future T-90M that were ordered.

    In the time of Uralvagonzavod building Armata, something happened - company was facing bankruptcy. Same with Kurganomash which makes the other Armata vehicles. Now all of that is being dealt with and or dealt with now with the bailout mix with both being absorbed by Rostec.
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    Post  kvs on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:16 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    What engine problems?

    A lot of sources mentioned that the engine faced some problems and it was one of the reasons that get the project delayed .

    At this state, it is unlikely that the 2022 deadline will be met. Reasons for the delay reportedly include a host of technical problems with the T-14 Armata’s engine, transmission, and thermal sights.

    Source

    You are citing the NATzO MSM echo chamber where all sorts of BS bootstrapped from zero is repeated ad nauseam as if it is God(TM)
    given fact. For example, Putin's alleged billions. Some asswipe blogger made a claim and the NATzO MSM ran with it. No amount
    of actual investigations by Forbes and others have ever dredged up these secret billions even though the claim is that they involve
    stocks in Russian companies and naturally offshore stashes.

    The Diplomat is the same rag that had the retarded article about how "stealthy" B-2 bombers and Tomohawk cruise missiles would
    decapitate Russia's nuclear offense capability and allow NATzO to stage a successful first strike. Anyone citing this rubbish
    "source" is a joke.

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    Post  kvs on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    What engine problems?

    A lot of sources mentioned that the engine faced some problems and it was one of the reasons that get the project delayed .

    At this state, it is unlikely that the 2022 deadline will be met. Reasons for the delay reportedly include a host of technical problems with the T-14 Armata’s engine, transmission, and thermal sights.

    Source

    Go look at the diplomats articles on Russia (and also China) in totality, and come back to me if they still represent a fair viewpoint on Russia, etc. Also how about reading their laughable article on Syria:

    https://thediplomat.com/2012/07/managing-the-endgame-in-syria/

    The whole scale back of T-14 program can easily be explained by the fact that more money is facilitated away from tactical programs (such as MBT's and IFV's) and directed towards strategic programs (Kinzhal, Zircon, Poseidon, Avantegard, S-500, Nudol, etc.) while still paying off their national debts and maintaining budget surpluses.

    The defence industry just got a bailout of 300B Rubles.  So now they are pushed for more development.  As stipulated by agreement the Armata family of 100 vehicles ordered are for this year.

    I should add its a product of Rostec now and so is NPO Orion which is a part of Schvab company which makes the thermal imagers.  The Engine theory, you know where it all stemmed from?  From that 1 model used during the may day parade that broke down.  Yes, that one model.

    And they made a whole article based upon assumptions of it.  How wonderful.  They cant even get basics right like the thermal imager.  The whole family of Russian tanks will be using that thermal imager.  So far already in service with T-72B3 and T-80BVM and future T-90M that were ordered.

    In the time of Uralvagonzavod building Armata, something happened - company was facing bankruptcy. Same with Kurganomash which makes the other Armata vehicles. Now all of that is being dealt with and or dealt with now with the bailout mix with both being absorbed by Rostec.

    We can debunk their trash talk drivel over and over and they keep coming back and posting these "authoritative" sources. There
    is no cure for stupid.

    It should be evident to anyone with a basic amount of objectivity that all NATzO and sycophant MSM sources on Russia spew inane,
    biased rubbish on various subjects about Russia. NATzO is fighting a so-called information war and only manages to convince its
    true believers, saps, an others who do not matter. The only target of value is Russia itself and Russians are not as inferior
    as NATzO haters believe. So they keep projecting all sorts of fantasy BS on Russia and hope like mental patients that reality will
    bend to their desires.

    Losers.


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