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    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone):

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:24 am

    The INF Treaty ended in time. The wreckage of the Iskander launched from the Russian Federation fell on the territory of Kazakhstan outside the missile range, this is +620 km from the border of the Russian Federation

    Putin said Russia would not develop or deploy missiles that violated the INF treaty until the US did... the US has developed such missiles and is deploying them so Russian hands are free to do the same.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:24 pm

    Rostec announced the modernization of Iskander missile systems

    In Russia, the Iskander-M missile systems are being modernized. This was reported on June 24 by Interfax with reference to a representative of Rostec.

    According to him, the potential of existing complexes will allow them to serve at least 25-30 years, so it is irrational to create them every 5-10 years.

    “As a rule, the creation of new complexes entails the preparation of new infrastructure for their deployment, and this is a significant expense,” he said. Arms modernization is ongoing in collaboration with the Ministry of Defense.

    In March, Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke about the creation of the Iskander. According to him, “a group of young people has come” and made this complex.

    The Iskanders are designed to destroy targets such as missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems and long-range artillery, airplanes and helicopters at airfields, command posts and communication centers.

    https://iz.ru/1027489/2020-06-24/rostekh-soobshchil-o-modernizatcii-raketnykh-kompleksov-iskander?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:02 am

    I am assuming probably with technology they developed from Kinzhal. Maybe newer sensors and guidance system? Maybe modernized motor that will allow it to fire quicker?
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:19 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I am assuming probably with technology they developed from Kinzhal.  Maybe newer sensors and guidance system?  Maybe modernized motor that will allow it to fire quicker?

    Maybe an additional first stage, just in case US continues rejecting the INF moratory? Cool
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:22 am

    Maybe upgrade Iskander to be able to engage sea-borne targets, ie a land-launched Kinzhal, and a new-generation solid propellent booster would be nice too. I'd develop an extended-range Arctic-version and deploy them to the island bases of the Siberian shelf (eg northern tip of Novaya Zemyla, Severnaya Zemyla, Kotelny, Wrangel etc) just to send a pointed message to the thrice-damned Muricanz.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:48 am

    I would say a good first step would be a second stage... a solid rocket stage that lifts the whole missile up and accelerates it to perhaps mach 4 or 5 at 30km altitude would effectively give it more of a range boost than launching it from an MiG-31 so its flight performance should immediately go from 490km range and mach 6-7 speed to probably mach 10 flight speed and a range of perhaps 2,500-3,000km without too many other changes.

    The materials the front is made from might need some upgrades to cope with the higher temperatures... much like the Kinzhal missile probably needed too because they are not only flying much faster, but also for a much longer period of time.

    In the longer term however they will probably keep that solid rocket extra stage and replace the main missile propulsion with a scramjet motor to maintain speed better and use fuel much more efficiently... perhaps lower flight speeds for the early portion of flight to save fuel but then faster in the terminal phase when fuel weight has plummeted but thrust is still fully controllable.

    Arctic based anti ship models are a good idea and models based in the far east able to target much of Americas west coast would be interesting too... with scramjet propulsion it becomes more like a cruise missile which is excellent for extending range... just add external fuel tanks for the first 1,000km and then drop them and fly a further 4-5,000km to targets deep in enemy territory... (more than 5,500km and they are considered strategic weapons... but with no new START planned that wont matter either...

    AEGIS ships in the Arctic or Pacific or Atlantic coasts would need powerful radars to detect overflying BMs so perhaps an anti radiation variant might be the best solution... Twisted Evil
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:46 pm

    Detachable warhead like Oka... Maybe was that what Borisov meant when he said Russia would build a missile with the Oka achievements in mind.
    This is the only thing that Oka is better than Islander.
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    Post  dino00 Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:10 pm

    Missile brigades are being trained to strike at amphibious assault forces and ships, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. A matter of minutes will pass from target detection to destruction by the Iskander operational-tactical missile system

    https://iz.ru/1040269/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/iskandery-ne-daiut-dobro-novye-raketnye-kompleksy-zashchitiat-poberezhe-rossii

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    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:03 am

    dino00 wrote:Missile brigades are being trained to strike at amphibious assault forces and ships, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. A matter of minutes will pass from target detection to destruction by the Iskander operational-tactical missile system

    https://iz.ru/1040269/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/iskandery-ne-daiut-dobro-novye-raketnye-kompleksy-zashchitiat-poberezhe-rossii

    There's some speculation that the Iskander will receive missiles with EO homing head enabling it to target moving targets including ships
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:10 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Missile brigades are being trained to strike at amphibious assault forces and ships, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. A matter of minutes will pass from target detection to destruction by the Iskander operational-tactical missile system

    https://iz.ru/1040269/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/iskandery-ne-daiut-dobro-novye-raketnye-kompleksy-zashchitiat-poberezhe-rossii

    There's some speculation that the Iskander will receive missiles with EO homing head enabling it to target moving targets including ships

    If they make it hypersonic then all targets will be effectively still. Given the Kinzhal, I think a hypersonic Iskander is the next logical step.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:35 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Missile brigades are being trained to strike at amphibious assault forces and ships, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. A matter of minutes will pass from target detection to destruction by the Iskander operational-tactical missile system

    https://iz.ru/1040269/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/iskandery-ne-daiut-dobro-novye-raketnye-kompleksy-zashchitiat-poberezhe-rossii

    There's some speculation that the Iskander will receive missiles with EO homing head enabling it to target moving targets including ships

    If they make it hypersonic then all targets will be effectively still.    Given the Kinzhal, I think a hypersonic Iskander is the next logical step.    


    Iskander has always been hypersonic. As far as Iskander with a EO homing head goes, apparently it already exists but we've never seen it (publicly) deployed, but it goes by the designation 9M723TL.
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 GlamorousLivelyChuckwalla-size_restricted

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 am

    The Tochka and Iskander come with alternative seekers... the original and also cheapest is basically using intertial guidance which results in a 200m CEP at 300km range (note these are export numbers). With GLONASS the accuracy improves to a CEP of less than 30m (note was 50m in 2001 but should be much better now) which is good enough for a cluster munition warhead. The optical homing warhead brings the CEP below 10m.

    There is an active radar seeker model and I think its accuracy is comparable to the optical homing but obviously all weather day night capable...
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    Post  LMFS Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:01 pm

    Seeing that 9M714V Volga in the drawing, one would think Russians don't need to look much further for a post-INF Iskander Wink

    Edit: system reported here as 9K716 Volga

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-223.html


    Last edited by LMFS on Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:33 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:20 pm

    LMFS wrote:Seeing that 9M714V Volga in the drawing, one would think Russians don't need to look much further for a post-INF Iskander Wink

    Most definitely, especially if you include the grid-fins that Elon Musk invented circa 1371 B.C. Wink

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Tochka and Iskander come with alternative seekers... the original and also cheapest is basically using intertial guidance which results in a 200m CEP at 300km range (note these are export numbers). With GLONASS the accuracy improves to a CEP of less than 30m (note was 50m in 2001 but should be much better now) which is good enough for a cluster munition warhead. The optical homing warhead brings the CEP below 10m.

    There is an active radar seeker model and I think its accuracy is comparable to the optical homing but obviously all weather day night capable...

    These CEP numbers imply:

    1) All the BS about "poor" Soviet and Russian missile accuracy is pure propaganda. The inertial guidance has intrinsic limitations on the
    accuracy most likely thanks to atmospheric perturbation during flight.

    2) Due to the real world limitations of inertial guidance, some active correction mechanism is required. Satellite positioning data seems
    like the most straightforward option. But I think there are other variants. There was a discussion of stellar navigation on another
    part of this board a while back.

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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:38 pm

    LMFS wrote:Seeing that 9M714V Volga in the drawing, one would think Russians don't need to look much further for a post-INF Iskander Wink

    Edit: system reported here as 9K716 Volga

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-223.html

    The specs given in the link are ancient. With the more than doubling of the solid rocket fuel propulsion characteristics the
    range of the Volga is likely over 1200 km.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:33 am

    The critical thing for accuracy is precision timing.

    Work out what the direction to the target is and determine the amount of time it would take to get there at x speed... but German buzz bomb had a simple jet engine and flew on a compass bearing and then after x number of seconds the motor was cut off and it would fall to the ground and explode.

    Totally useless as anything other than a terror weapon because it could operate 24/7 in the worst weather... the problem was that you needed a target the size of London to make it effective.

    Most strategic bombing was done the same way at the time, and though they claimed the norden bombsight was sophisticated and amazing... they still needed thousand bomber raids to hit one factory that might be the size of four city blocks....

    These accuracy figures are for export versions of these weapons and were published at a time when GLONASS was not as accurate simply because it was not totally complete and it consisted of older satellite models with less precise clock on board. The newer models are rather more accurate, and as they repopulate the cluster it is only going to get better.

    Of course 250m CEP is actually already good enough for a chem or bio or nuclear attack... and ironically we have just seen the potential power of a bio attack... it clearly exceeded the power and lethality of any nuke, but it is always the N in NBC that scares most people when the B is the one we should really be afraid of.

    Imagine a bio weapon that has no symptoms and is easily passed from person to person and makes all men and women sterile...

    Regarding that Volga missile it should have a decent range even allowing for manouvering performance... the solid rocket booster should get the missile up and moving to high altitude and high speed, which means the missile itself is basically the same as being launched from a high flying fast flying MiG-31 if not faster, so 2,000km-3,000km should be easily achievable... and if you sling it under a MiG-31 or Tu-22M3 to launch it... its performance should be even better...
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    Post  Isos Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:38 am

    90° turn after the launch of two Iskander missiles. Awsome !!!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1291219236203794432

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    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:44 pm

    ^^^
    First time shown on video I think
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    Post  hoom Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:37 am

    They showed a similar turn last year https://www.russiadefence.net/t75p325-iskander-m-k-ss-26-stone#265289
    It is an impressive turn but definitely not 90deg.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:23 pm

    From the recent Algerian exercise:
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hPKZXMAI2G9C?format=jpg&name=largeIskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hPh9XIAEoA5z?format=jpg&name=largeIskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hP4pXMAA_i3e?format=jpg&name=large

    Someone thinks this a HE-Frag explosion, but if anything this looks like a thermobaric explosion.
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hQQuXMAE0yGz?format=jpg&name=large

    At the 13:46 mark.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:46 pm

    Regarding the speed of the Iskander, it is less than Mach 7. Cranking up the speed to over Mach 10 like with the Kinzhal is more than
    worthwhile since it reduces the response time. The US is banking with its tearing up of the INF treaty at getting a faster first
    strike ability on Russia. Russia needs to be able to target all such US assets in Europe in very short periods.

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    Post  PhSt Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:51 am

    Russia is developing a new missile system to replace Iskander

    MOSCOW, November 19. / TASS /. A scientific basis has been created for a new missile system to replace the Iskander. This was announced by the head of the Missile Forces and Artillery (MFA) of the Russian Armed Forces, Lieutenant General Mikhail Matveyevsky in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta .

    Iskander-M will meet modern requirements for quite a long time and will remain the main one in the Rocket Forces and artillery until at least 2030. As for the promising complex, we can say that today there is sufficient scientific groundwork for its creation, "he said.

    Matveyevsky stressed that the Iskander-M operational-tactical missile system is unique and its modernization potential "has been realized less than half."

    The general also added that scientific work is now underway on the appearance of a promising rocket artillery weapon. In parallel, the capabilities of existing systems are being enhanced. Today, the artillery units are receiving the modernized Tornado-G medium-caliber multiple launch rocket systems and the modernized Tornado-S.

    Drones

    Matveyevsky also said that unmanned aerial vehicles are included in all artillery formations of MFA.

    "Unmanned aerial vehicles are already included in all artillery formations," Matveevsky said.

    He specified that drones are one of the most effective means of obtaining intelligence information. "Therefore, drones are included in reconnaissance and strike systems, which are created on the basis of missile forces and artillery units. This allows you to fire at targets in a time mode close to real," the general explained.

    The rocket forces and artillery celebrate their professional holiday on November 19. The date of celebration of the Day of the Artilleryman was not chosen by chance - on November 19, 1942, Soviet troops launched a counteroffensive at Stalingrad, the artillerymen paved the way for them.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:30 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:From the recent Algerian exercise:
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hPKZXMAI2G9C?format=jpg&name=largeIskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hPh9XIAEoA5z?format=jpg&name=largeIskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hP4pXMAA_i3e?format=jpg&name=large

    Someone thinks this a HE-Frag explosion, but if anything this looks like a thermobaric explosion.
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em8hQQuXMAE0yGz?format=jpg&name=large

    At the 13:46 mark.

    Correction it was not Iskander-M, but a Iskander-K strike. The image is from the Algerian exercises:
    Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone): - Page 15 Em7aZNAXYAA_xFD?format=jpg&name=large

    kvs wrote:Regarding the speed of the Iskander, it is less than Mach 7.    Cranking up the speed to over Mach 10 like with the Kinzhal is more than
    worthwhile since it reduces the response time.    The US is banking with its tearing up of the INF treaty at getting a faster first
    strike ability on Russia.   Russia needs to be able to target all such US assets in Europe in very short periods.

    From my understanding the average speed of Iskander-M traveling is Mach 7, but in a steep dive it reaches Mach 8 as it's peak speed.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:39 am

    Speed for Iskander is supposed to be mach 6 to 8 depending on target range... there are no low level attack profiles... all involve a high speed near vertical dive on the target.

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