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    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    I'm not

    But just as you wouldn't sacrifice education for all that, neither would you sacrifice a cult of physical activity and propagandization of a sporting lifestyle, with the matching dazzling infrastructure to boot. It's directly linked to life expectancy, people's quality of life, government expenditure on medical care, etc...

    It's all linked and it's all part of the total package for developing the country. A mix of long-term and short-term measures, and they are all necessary.

    Added to all that, in a period of a fall in export volumes and business activity, but a stabilization of the budget and inflation situation - austerity is hardly the right measure to institute. Instead big construction projects such as this stimulate domestic demand for multiple economic sectors.
    I wouldn't cut my support to amateur sports such as school gyms, local sport centers and open air sport compounds. Bigger "dazzling" infrastructure, as you put it, i would leave to private sector subsidized by tax benefits.

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    Post  Sprut-B Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:10 pm



    Bigger fish to fry than healthy youth and physically active adults?

    Fostering Olympics talent is the least that all this is about

    You don't have to waste billions of dollars just to promote physical health. Most people love to watch sport sitting on couch than to do some menial physical activities which will benefit them in the long run.  

    Build huge parks where people can jog, run & do yoga. Also build open calisthenics theme parks to encourage & promote physical health. Educate youth to dangers of drug, alcohol & tobacco. Make physical exercise compulsory at schools & give all the necessary facilities to schools. There should be a special class on moral & ethics to build a better future generation. That's where Govt. should spend their money instead of Olympic size stadiums.

    I think drinking & smoking should be a taboo as it's harmful for the individual & also to the society. You can't be healthy doing exercises only if you're destroying your lung, liver & kidney.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:03 pm

    Sprut-B wrote:


    Bigger fish to fry than healthy youth and physically active adults?

    Fostering Olympics talent is the least that all this is about

    You don't have to waste billions of dollars just to promote physical health. Most people love to watch sport sitting on couch than to do some menial physical activities which will benefit them in the long run.  

    Build huge parks where people can jog, run & do yoga. Also build open calisthenics theme parks to encourage & promote physical health. Educate youth to dangers of drug, alcohol & tobacco. Make physical exercise compulsory at schools & give all the necessary facilities to schools. There should be a special class on moral & ethics to build a better future generation. That's where Govt. should spend their money instead of Olympic size stadiums.

    I think drinking & smoking should be a taboo as it's harmful for the individual & also to the society. You can't be healthy doing exercises only if you're destroying your lung, liver & kidney.

    Sure, and as you can see building beautiful parks & squares and making the outdoors look uplifting rather than drab, concrete and depressing is a priority too. It encourages people to walk outside for leisure, have a spot to do some jogging or biking, and so on.

    But the big stadiums are necessary too. This goes back to the Soviet era when sport was equally prioritized. Most of them are multifunctional to various degrees and are used not only to host professional matches and provide training grounds for teams, but they will be used by the public too on off days or off hours, frequently for some related sports to its prime function as well. Ice hockey arenas can be used for iceskating, for curling and other such activities. They would all host multiple teams of various levels and age groups. Nearby schools might use them.
    But the prestige of having such a large facility has a psychological effect too. As indeed does hosting a major international sporting event. It all raises the profile of the sport in question and encourages more people to give it a go.

    All the stadiums I showed are for cities of a million or more people. A big expensive facility can be justified for such a city provided the local team is good too.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:10 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    All the stadiums I showed are for cities of a million or more people. A big expensive facility can be justified for such a city provided the local team is good too.
    Again, don't agree with you. Professional sports are a business and should be looked at like such. Russian sport teams are kicked out of continental competitions amd many foreign players left the country.
    Let investors build these huge venues, if they want to, give even some tax benefits or free land, but end it there. Moment is not right. If everything turns all rigjt in 3-4 years government can always jump back in. For now, spend money where it makes more sense.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:06 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    All the stadiums I showed are for cities of a million or more people. A big expensive facility can be justified for such a city provided the local team is good too.
    Again, don't agree with you. Professional sports are a business and should be looked at like such. Russian sport teams are kicked out of continental competitions amd many foreign players left the country.
    Let investors build these huge venues, if they want to, give even some tax benefits or free land, but end it there. Moment is not right. If everything turns all rigjt in 3-4 years government can always jump back in. For now, spend money where it makes more sense.

    Sports are an investment into the population and these sorts of facilities (they were called palaces in the Soviet era in reference to this sort of expensive grand palace-like structure but for ordinary people) are not just there for the athletes and professional teams; although certainly they need a place to train and play as well. They are typically there for everybody or at least for all sorts of sports clubs. They are also frequently used as non-sports venues, for concerts hosted in the city and so on - and some cities simply don't have a modern place to host such other than a new ice hockey arena.

    And it's irrelevant if Russia has or hasn't got foreign players. Again, during the USSR there weren't any foreign players either yet all these grand stadiums were still built and sports teams at all levels were still fostered; municipal, regional, republic-level, all-union, international.

    And not spending money on all of this is like not spending money on big expensive new schools because Russia has now been banned from school exchanges, international olympiads and so on. Where it makes sense to do it - build the facility and let it bring value. Where it doesn't, by all means use the money for something else.

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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:14 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    And not spending money on all of this is like not spending money on education because Russia has now been banned from school exchanges, international olympiads and so on.
    That's hardly a valid comparison. I'm sure that all those you mentioned can be done in smaller venues or one already in existence.
    Anyway your national teams, suck balls, with the exception of hockey, and we have to give you a pass here and there, as brothers. It's an embarrassment, really.😂😂

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:34 am

    To be fair large stadiums are not only for sport, you can hold nerd conventions, and concerts and all sorts of events in such places.

    I am not one that watches much sport either, but it seems to be very popular with some people... if they want to buy tickets... why not.

    The very idea that Russia is hopeless at sport sounds like arrogance from the west... it seems your superiority in drug use and your ownership of the organisations that are supposed to be policing drug use gives the west a lot of advantages, but the medal counts for Russia are usually rather good except when they are banned from competing.

    Interesting that Lance Armstrong could get away with cheating for so many years and no one even noticed till it could not be ignored... even had a sob story to with it that was repeated over and over every time he won... overcoming the odds to win... what an American hero.

    What a chemist... he can't have done it on his own... he must have had a lot of people not doing their jobs... but when it came to light it was just him... interesting.

    Drugs cheating in western teams is like lobby groups in western politics... campaign contributions by large companies are not corruption.

    Russia would be better off leaving European sports leagues and moving to Asian leagues... I am sure they could work and get some interesting competitions going... screw the west.

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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:50 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The very idea that Russia is hopeless at sport sounds like arrogance from the west... it seems your superiority in drug use and your ownership of the organisations that are supposed to be policing drug use gives the west a lot of advantages, but the medal counts for Russia are usually rather good except when they are banned from competing.
    Relax Garry, even though i live in US I'm not westerner.
    I'm just busting FPs balls. Little joke among Slavic brothers.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:46 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The very idea that Russia is hopeless at sport sounds like arrogance from the west... it seems your superiority in drug use and your ownership of the organisations that are supposed to be policing drug use gives the west a lot of advantages, but the medal counts for Russia are usually rather good except when they are banned from competing.
    Relax Garry, even though i live in US I'm not westerner.
    I'm just busting FPs balls. Little joke among Slavic brothers.

    It's all good, but I'm not even much of a fan of competitive and team sports either. Only stadium game I ever wanted to attend was during the 2018 World Cup but even then I didn't care enough to actually get around to it.

    I did play rugby a lot as a teenager and I've been thinking of getting back into it as of late for fun and fitness, but that's about it

    Other than that I've never been to any of these ice hockey stadiums, Olympic stadiums and so on. I don't watch the games.

    Yet even I recognize their value.

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    Post  Hole Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:57 pm

    Why should Russia not build stadiums? The money is there. The construction brings jobs, the sport teams bring jobs. The facilities in Wladiwostok seem to be for the public, so they will bring fun and joy.

    Russia has good health care and education systems. A lot of money spend there. It´s not like in the US where public schools and hospitals getting closed so that the money can be spend on an sporting complex for a private school or a professional sport team owned by some Oligarch.

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    Post  Sprut-B Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:13 pm

    Hole wrote:Why should Russia not build stadiums? The money is there. The construction brings jobs, the sport teams bring jobs. The facilities in Wladiwostok seem to be for the public, so they will bring fun and joy.

    Russia has good health care and education systems. A lot of money spend there. It´s not like in the US where public schools and hospitals getting closed so that the money can be spend on an sporting complex for a private school or a professional sport team owned by some Oligarch.

    If there is money then Russia should first build high speed bullet train network throughout the country just like Japan & China. Modern highways & high-tech Railroads should be the first priority. Building stadium maybe a good investment but not as good as building maglev & modern highway system. Most Russian provinces have very bad road infrastructure even compared to India.

    Russian health & education system is one of the best in the world. But still some improvements need to be made. Russian life expectancy is less even compared to some Banana republics. Moral fabric of Russian society is also need to be restored which was damaged by the influence of western hedonism & materialism. I think Govt. should pay special attention to this matter.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:32 am

    Every time they talked about high speed trains they always talked about working with the Germans... and I always suggested that the Chinese have actual experience and the technology and are rather more reliable...

    Now there is no choice I say get working with China, not just on new trains in Russia but also around the world... Iran, India, Brazil, South Africa, etc etc.

    Improving access to remote areas is always a good thing for a country.

    Plus stadiums are not just about sport, they can be about culture and music and social events too.

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    Post  Firebird Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Some sports facilities/stadiums under construction or planned at the moment:


    SKA Arena, St. Petersburg (ice hockey/skating arena)



    Render(s):
    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 WzHJeNo


    There's lots of very impressive buildings there.

    The most impressive was SKA  I think. Normally these arenas look very functional or even plain ugly.
    This must be the most visually attractive large arena anywhere in the World.

    I'm not sure what will happen with the ice hockey world cup planned for here.
    But it will be a building and area that will be a very useful legacy for the "new St Petersburg" for many years.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Some sports facilities/stadiums under construction or planned at the moment:


    SKA Arena, St. Petersburg (ice hockey/skating arena)



    Render(s):
    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 WzHJeNo


    There's lots of very impressive buildings there.

    The most impressive was SKA  I think. Normally these arenas look very functional or even plain ugly.
    This must be the most visually attractive large arena anywhere in the World.

    I'm not sure what will happen with the ice hockey world cup planned for here.
    But it will be a building and area that will be a very useful legacy for the "new St Petersburg" for many years.

    Well Ekaterinburg's Universiade for 2023 has already been cancelled by FISU. They're building an Olympic village there - but which was anyway supposed to be converted into student dorm buildings for the new campus of the Ural Federal University after the games, so little money has been wasted.
    Although there is talk that Ekaterinburg's rights for the games can be postponed to a later date instead, depending on what Russia agrees upon with FISU. So like 2027 instead of 2023.

    That should give you an indication of the fate of any Ice Hockey World Cups due to be hosted by Russia as well

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:53 pm

    View across Fili park to the east, Moscow, June 2022.

    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 NovbHWD

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:57 pm

    Now I understand why they need so many toilet bowls there Laughing


    Last edited by ALAMO on Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:Every time they talked about high speed trains they always talked about working with the Germans... and I always suggested that the Chinese have actual experience and the technology and are rather more reliable...

    Now there is no choice I say get working with China, not just on new trains in Russia but also around the world... Iran, India, Brazil, South Africa, etc etc.

    Improving access to remote areas is always a good thing for a country.

    Plus stadiums are not just about sport, they can be about culture and music and social events too.

    Can't say I have much of a clue, but it always seemed to me that Russia wanted to be super good friends with and customers of the European core powers and was rather wary of China, until the U.S. more of less forced France, Germany etc into direct confrontation, leaving Russia with no choice.

    That said, it is no secret that China is a world leader in the implementation of high speed rail.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:07 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Now I understand why they need so many toilet bows there Laughing

    And washing machines, oh man. Gotta be at least 30 000 vatniks that will need washing every other day in that scene.

    And to think that they only first saw paved roads in Kherson. Must have been a right pain in the arse to haul all that construction machinery and material on mud paths.

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:38 am

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Every time they talked about high speed trains they always talked about working with the Germans... and I always suggested that the Chinese have actual experience and the technology and are rather more reliable...

    Now there is no choice I say get working with China, not just on new trains in Russia but also around the world... Iran, India, Brazil, South Africa, etc etc.

    Improving access to remote areas is always a good thing for a country.

    Plus stadiums are not just about sport, they can be about culture and music and social events too.

    Can't say I have much of a clue, but it always seemed to me that Russia wanted to be super good friends with and customers of the European core powers and was rather wary of China, until the U.S. more of less forced France, Germany etc into direct confrontation, leaving Russia with no choice.

    That said, it is no secret that China is a world leader in the implementation of high speed rail.

    There was never any reason for Russia to be wary of China. The stupid articles about China grabbing the Russian Far East spread in some American publications, and the 'yellow peril' paranoia that attempted to be cultivated in Russia in the 2000s were both artificial, and along with any 'wariness' were a reflection not of any actual military or political danger, but rather the Russian elite's preference towards integrating with the globalist system and the EU, while thumbing their nose up at the rest of the world.

    The West had to try hard to make an outright enemy out of Russia but it succeeded, and all our sell-out elites were gradually sidelined. It took a long while, but I'm grateful for the process. Neither I, nor I think most of Russia's rank and file population ever had much to gain by becoming an exclusive resource colony of the EU and US, with some respect and privileges granted in return (and even that the West ultimately refused to provide). That sort of thing was only attractive for our oligarchs, not for the masses. The masses wanted then, and want now - the USSR back, and some form of state planning, socialism, and to function as their own pole in the world - even if it means isolation from the West.
    Which is not to say that there's anything wrong with partnership, trade, etc.. with Western countries in theory. I would love a good relationship with the US, with France, and so on. The trouble is said West will never agree to fair partnership, and they will always deal with Russia collectively on any important issues. Other countries in the world however don't have such complexes; the same China, the same India, the same Turkey, Iran, Argentina, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan and so on.
    So with that, sorry ALAMO, but the game was rigged from the start. We never truly stopped being commies and started being Europeans. And we won, against the Lisbon to Vladivostok scheme Smile

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:48 am

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    And to think that they only first saw paved roads in Kherson. Must have been a right pain in the arse to haul all that construction machinery and material on mud paths.

    Now I understand that even better.
    This is why they produce so much toothpaste.
    Obviously, lacking machinery they could not steal from prosperous Ukraine, all the metro stations were made in Moscow (130 in the last decade?) with teeth only.
    Well, some claws either, but dirt under the claws fits the watnik.

    flamming_python wrote:
    So with that, sorry ALAMO, but the game was rigged from the start. We never truly stopped being commies and started being Europeans. And we won, against the Lisbon to Vladivostok scheme Smile

    Hey bro, it is 20 years that passed already. I get used to this new reality Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:48 am

    I live in a British commonwealth country and I know that the British establishment hate Russia... it is their big empire rival even though Britain spread its empire around the world, while Russia wrested territory from its neighbours or lost it that way.

    Here in Dunedin we all got together and funded a coastal artillery piece to defend us from the Russians because the Royal Navy might not be available to protect us... we built that in 1889 so it was never about communism or any more recent bullshit.

    It is good that Russia is turning away from Europe, I think Europe are a bad influence, and that Russia is better than that... there is the rest of the world to trade with and cooperate it.

    If the Asian soccer league is not as strong as the european soccer league then join the asian league and work to make it stronger... don't grovel to those european bastards to let you play there.

    It normally comes down to money of course... the Rugby World cup never would have happened if it wasn't for New Zealand and Australia and Japan.... the european based rugby nations said it would not work... players couldn't get time off... to far to travel... not enough money in it... etc etc.

    When the Japanese funded first world cup was played in Australia and New Zealand and was a huge success the European rugby nations couldn't wait to take control... and now they dictate everything in regard to the Rugby world cup... the contributions especially of Japan are ignored but they made it happen.

    There are a lot of very smart and interesting people out there who don't naturally hate Russia and Russians... Russia needs to reach out and contact them and sort some mutually beneficial trade with them, it will be good for them and it will be good for Russia too.

    The West is stagnating, and it was reaching in to Russia because Russia is growing and developing, which means there is money to be made.

    Russia can reach out to the rest of the world and help them and make money too... and the rest of the world can make money and develop and grow as well... lifting everyone up instead of just the 1%.

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    Post  thegopnik Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:42 am

    get lossed in the art of their architecture on this thread as much as I did looking at the art of this manga going through the pages I love you
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:43 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Well Ekaterinburg's Universiade for 2023 has already been cancelled by FISU. They're building an Olympic village there - but which was anyway supposed to be converted into student dorm buildings for the new campus of the Ural Federal University after the games, so little money has been wasted.
    Although there is talk that Ekaterinburg's rights for the games can be postponed to a later date instead, depending on what Russia agrees upon with FISU. So like 2027 instead of 2023.

    That should give you an indication of the fate of any Ice Hockey World Cups due to be hosted by Russia as well


    I think all the "Washington Consensus" aka attempts at American "full spectrum dominance" activity means one thing.

    They are losing all credibility in their organisations.

    Even if Russia loses the "World" ice hockey, many other uses can be found for these arena.
    Soon America will be crying that its propaganda is now considered irrelevant and they'll be begging for a "relations reset". But plenty of countries won't buy it. And they won't need to.

    America is just 300m people, similar to the CIS. Asia alone has many billions of people, most of which have no desire to kowtow to American imperialism.

    Music concerts will be a big part of arena use. And the CIS/Slavic nations are the basis for Russian acts.

    ---------
    I was watching the sports news in England yesterday. Apparently the Saudis have an alternative to the US controlled PGA Golf. Its called LIV golf.

    Watching the Americans cry "its not fair, the Saudis are spending too much money, we cannot compete with them, it is just a vanity project for national prestige from them" was hilarious.

    America has hijacked much of global sports destroying all independence and even national cultures in the process. They had virtually unlimited funds because they owned the dollar printing press. And it was all about imperialist soft power propaganda, not sport or even commercialism alone.

    Now Saudi in golf, and other places are beating the Americans at their own game. The bully claiming he is being bullied.

    Its even worse in European football. The Americans have fought tooth and nail for a European league, which would be followed by a "global league" and a merger and dissolution of a vast number of clubs. They also try and ban benefactors from investing in teams the way Arabs, Russians etc have done. Shamefully they call it "financial fair play" ie "fair play" to make huge profits from fans without investing in teams.

    Clearly the landscape is changing.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:35 pm

    Yes, the reaction to golf players playing in that new Saudi league was astounding... the players who play in Saudi arabia are not welcome back in the western tournaments... of course they are getting hundreds of millions of dollars so I doubt they would care...

    Amazing how evil the Saudis are portrayed now in the media when they do this... before it was they buy all our weapons so we don't care if they murdered a washington post reporter who was a saudi citizen... as long as they keep buying our shit weapons.
    Scorpius
    Scorpius


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    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development

    Post  Scorpius Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:48 pm

    A simple comparison of changes in Russia.
    View in 2019:
    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 _u_110
    Same place, view in 2022:
    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 WhatsApp-Image-2020_09_10-at-14.02.19
    This rectangle on the square is actually there for a reason:
    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 Novaya-usman

    Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. This is not a city. This locality has the official status of a village.

    GarryB, Sprut-B and Broski like this post


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    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development

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