Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

mor wrote:#SYRIA Russian Su-24 aircraft was shot down on its way to Hmeymim airbase in the territory of Syrian Arab Republic by a Turkish F-16 fighter

(Минобороны России) https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/669142504940429312

Rodinazombie wrote:Im not sure what you giys were expecting putin to say, whatever it is, thats not putins style. He always talks softly, but even so, his words were quite damning.

This is the man who calls his enemies 'partners', so to go out and call this a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorism is pretty hardline from his usual style. Make no mistake about it, putin will act. He wont scream or shout, but he will act.

Putin said "stab in the back." Using diplomatic speech, and he would not do otherwise, this is putting it very plainly. We're in the shit now, friends. Have no idea what will happens next, maybe a lot.

I agree that this is not the time to start WW3. Be smart and meticulous. Arm the Kurds and let Erdogan lose 25% of his territory.

There's one thing Putin can do and possibly nobody in NATO will care.
Pick and bomb the air base these fighters took off, destroy a few planes on the ground and shelters. Call it even and go home.

Judging from that video on which you can see the moment of impact, isn't it obvious that the plane was flying well over Syrian air space?

Very predictable... now 2,000 Ukraine facist and moving troops
to the front line as if they were preparing to a fight with donetsk..
This is a proxy war of US on Russia.. And the turkey attack it seeks to get Russia
away of defeating ISIS..and they have to be telling kiev that pressure also Russia in the
Ukraine front.

And where are Russian allies? Where is China? Where is India? where are the Brics?
Russia have no option than to integrate with Europe no matter what..and not allow US to break
their ties.. all those self centered nations that do nothing on the world to make it better and expect others to do it for them.. without Russia neither China or India stand a chance to continue
as major powers.. since US will have destroyed them.

mack8 wrote:Why do you post here videos and pictures of the fallen russian flyers!? You are making a service to the f**** jihadist rats, not to mention you are horribly disrespectful to them and their families! The mods cleraly stated the forums policy regarding graphic content, i would suggest you refresh your short memories.

I completely agree. Please stop with this morbidity, also there are people (like me) who are viewing this from work. I just want to be updated on this serious event, not see morbid pics, even less so from those who were fighting for the good side.

Vann7 wrote:
Very predictable... now 2,000 Ukraine facist and moving troops
to the front line as if they were preparing to a fight with donetsk..
This is a proxy war of US on Russia..  And the turkey attack it seeks to get Russia
away of defeating ISIS..and they have to be telling kiev that pressure also Russia in the
Ukraine front.

And where are Russian allies? Where is China? Where is India? where are the Brics?
Russia have no option than to integrate with Europe no matter what..and not allow US to break
their ties.. all those self centered nations that do nothing on the world to make it better and expect others to do it for them.. without Russia neither China or India stand a chance to continue
as major powers.. since US will have destroyed them.

Tsar Alexander III : Russia has only two allies, it's army and navy.

Did both of the Russian pilots make it out and to the ground alive, & then terrorists killed them??

RIP to pilots, and condolences to their families and friends.

Neutrality wrote:Judging from that video on which you can see the moment of impact, isn't it obvious that the plane was flying well over Syrian air space?

The position the plane was when the missile impacted it - is not the same as the position that the plane was when the missile was launched against it. A fighter jet can cover several kilometres in that time.

This is pretty elementary stuff; but Putin made no mention of it - he mentioned only where the plane was when it was hit, and where it crashed.

Vann7 wrote:And where are Russian allies? Where is China? Where is India? where are the Brics?

China? (we'll see).
India is NOT a Russian ally! Just read Indian news (same as reading the American Media - if not worse). And don't even get me started on the comments made by Indian folk...
India may well soon be attacking Russian interests, certainly NOT defend them.
And I'm truly sorry to say this (honest). India is a post-colonial society - ruled by its former colonial master. I have lost all hope for India.

Neutrality wrote:Judging from that video on which you can see the moment of impact, isn't it obvious that the plane was flying well over Syrian air space?

Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

KiloGolf wrote:There's one thing Putin can do and possibly nobody in NATO will care.
Pick and bomb the air base these fighters took off, destroy a few planes on the ground and shelters. Call it even and go home.

No, I much prefer the option that won't risk starting WW3 - of flooding the Kurds with advanced weaponry; HMGs, sniper rifles, body armour, ATGMs, RPGs, artillery pieces, counter-mortar radars and various electronic aids. This will help them against the Turks, and also against ISIS.
I doubt the US would care much, that's another advantage; they're helping the Kurds in defiance of Turkish objections themselves.

Of course this can backfire, if the Kurds then decide to take on the SAA and Shi'ites too. But that's not something we need get involved with.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

flamming_python wrote:The position the plane was when the missile impacted it - is not the same as the position that the plane was when the missile was launched against it. A fighter jet can cover several kilometres in that time.

This is pretty elementary stuff; but Putin made no mention of it - he mentioned only where the plane was when it was hit, and where it crashed.

Then this act reveals Turkish intentions. If we're aware of this then the Turks are too. For some reason they were dead set on taking it down.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Judging from that video on which you can see the moment of impact, isn't it obvious that the plane was flying well over Syrian air space?

Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

This also suggest that the Russian Electronic warfare is not as good as we believed.. at least
not in old planes.. and the so called bubble of 300km of area denial not working?

In any case best advice i can give to Putin is patience.. is what won World war 2..and what will
world war 3.. patience and dedication and commitment to achieve your objectives.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Indian government exists to care for interests of India, not interests of Russia.

So we're havin' a laugh...thanks, I needed that in these dire times.
If India protected India, it wouldn't suck-up to the people that killed millions upon millions of Indians...and still rule their country today via 'soft power'...
Let 'em suck up to Uncle Sam and the Brits...truth is - India is NOT a post-colonial society - India is 'her majesty dominion' still...how sorry it may sound...

flamming_python wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:There's one thing Putin can do and possibly nobody in NATO will care.
Pick and bomb the air base these fighters took off, destroy a few planes on the ground and shelters. Call it even and go home.

No, I much prefer the option that won't risk starting WW3 - of flooding the Kurds with advanced weaponry; HMGs, sniper rifles, body armour, ATGMs, RPGs, artillery pieces, counter-mortar radars and various electronic aids. This will help them against the Turks, and also against ISIS.
I doubt the US would care much, that's another advantage; they're helping the Kurds in defiance of Turkish objections themselves.

Of course this can backfire, if the Kurds then decide to take on the SAA and Shi'ites too. But that's not something we need get involved with.

It will be better if Russia support kurds to close the Syrian Border with Turkey.. and give weapons to fight ISIS and capture the 90km border with Syria.. ,that will provoke turkey big time.. and RUssian airforce will be there to fight back the Turkey airforce if they there to bomb kurds.. .. that will also expose Turkey as defending ISIS.. not allowing Russia to shut down ISIS supply lines..


But make no mistake the fight against Turkey.. will be a fight against USA by proxy..
They will be giving weapons to fight Russia and Russia better protect Sochi facilities and caucasus and be carefull with the warships that enter in the black sea. could be attacked.

Vann7 wrote:This also suggest that the Russian Electronic warfare is not as good as we believed.. at least
not in old planes.. and the so called bubble of 300km of area denial not working?

It's never meant to work like that. There's very little to do when you have heavy-laden bombers being locked by AMRAAMs, with no local EW assets nearby. I even doubt their RWR on the Fencer detected the lock. New AMRAAMs lock after launch, like way after, which gives the attacked less than few seconds to get RWR notification.

If link 16 was used, Turkish Block 52+ and CCIPs use it. And they also have ground stations and the huge Wedgetails. These Fencers were toast.

flamming_python wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:There's one thing Putin can do and possibly nobody in NATO will care.
Pick and bomb the air base these fighters took off, destroy a few planes on the ground and shelters. Call it even and go home.

No, I much prefer the option that won't risk starting WW3 - of flooding the Kurds with advanced weaponry; HMGs, sniper rifles, body armour, ATGMs, RPGs, artillery pieces, counter-mortar radars and various electronic aids. This will help them against the Turks, and also against ISIS.
I doubt the US would care much, that's another advantage; they're helping the Kurds in defiance of Turkish objections themselves.

Of course this can backfire, if the Kurds then decide to take on the SAA and Shi'ites too. But that's not something we need get involved with.

The Kurds won't attack the SAA. They've occasionally clashed with the NDF, but for 4 years now they've managed not to fight with the SAA despite being side-by-side with them in many areas. The Kurds in Syria and Turkey are quite different than those in Iraq. More secular, more revolutionary, more pro-Russian.

I wonder how long it will take to evacuate every Russian/CIS citizen from Turdkey
Surely there wont be too many now its nearly December.

Aside from retribution, I wonder how Russia will continue the Syria/ISIS situation.
Personally I think shrinking Turkey is a strategic essential. Its clearly a big unsavoury rogue state.
Unchecked it will cause misery in the CIS and Caucuses. It really needs an 888 style beating.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Indian government exists to care for interests of India, not interests of Russia. Making the world a better place is a highly meaningless term - since it's hardly possible to make one place better without making some other plae worse. In politics it's interests that matter, not morality.

India has no reason to care about Syria. It doesn't have terribly good relations with Assad and is not a friend of Russia either, just buys some military equipmnt from time to time. It has a 10 times higher population, is an aspiring superpower on it's own and does not need Russia

well India asked for help when in conflict with pakistan and northern borders.. Also asked for military aid from Russia.
Partnership is two way relation..

=======================================

KiloGolf wrote:

Vann7 wrote:This also suggest that the Russian Electronic warfare is not as good as we believed.. at least
not in old planes.. and the so called bubble of 300km of area denial not working?

It's never meant to work like that. There's very little to do when you have heavy-laden bombers being locked by AMRAAMs, with no local EW assets nearby. I even doubt their RWR on the Fencer detected the lock. New AMRAAMs lock after launch, like way after, which gives the attacked less than few seconds to get RWR notification.

If link 16 was used, Turkish Block 52+ and CCIPs use it. And they also have ground stations and the huge Wedgetails. These Fencers were toast.

I agree. The Su was to attack ground positions of terrorist bums. It wasnt expecting to defend itself against SAM batteries and perhaps F-16s while striking ISIS. Otherwise itd have SU-35s alongside it. And Turdkey softened up by Tu160s.

From 'our' very own Guardian:

G wrote:

Here are the key quotes from Putin’s statement:

   “The loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way.”

   “Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.”

   “Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey.”

   “Today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations ... Instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.”

   “Do they want to make Nato serve ISIS? ... We hope that the international community will find the strength to come together and fight against the common evil.”

The Guardian Propaganda Outlet