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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:52 am

    Because it's dirt cheap

    When it come to space Russians never do anything without begging foreigners for money first

    New rocket? Beg for money

    New manned spacecraft? Beg for money

    New science mission? Beg for money

    And when they are told to sod off they just cancel all those projects because no foreigner will pay for them

    So you are saying what... current and future rockets and space craft and missions are paid for by the west... I guess their new space port was also paid for by the west as well...

    The west works with Russia because they have the technology and capacity and they do it affordably.

    Russia recently turned down cooperation with the US because the US was offering them a token role where they would have to conform to US procedures and methods to be part of the mission.... I don't remember the last time the west told the Russians to sod off however...

    You don't make money by wasting it

    Roskosmos is like a crack whore

    Crack whore is dirt cheap and will give you a handjob no questions asked for a penny

    It may not be the cleanest hand-job or even a good handjob and you will lose a lot of dignity by socializing with a crack whore but you will still get a handjob out of it for next to nothing

    As usual you have it arse about... it is the west that is the addict... in one breath Russia is a bigger threat than ISIS, but in the next breath they are their only way to get to the ISS. Oh the west is spending lots of money to find an alternative to relying on Russian technology to get them to the ISS, but right now they seem to explode during tests so they prefer to give Russia handjobs for their reliable rockets...

    Price, nothing more

    Bullshit. If it was only ever price then what you are saying is that civilised advanced europe are a bunch of lying immoral censored ... they are risking the lives of their astronauts using cheap obviously inferior Russian electronics and rockets just to save a few bucks and they are enormously wealthy... what a bunch of ass holes... they should man up and spend proper money on their own super technology and forget the Russians and keep their people much safer with superior euro technology...


    Euros lose nothing out of it, when whole thing goes tits-up who will get the blame?

    Who gives a fuck who the eurotards blame... who listens to them?

    Side which has reliable track record or a side with humiliating failures like Phobos-Grunt, Angosat, one who can't find out why her manned rocket exploded because they can't be arsed to install security cameras and whose ground personnel dies from inhaling hydrazine which they still insist on using for some idiotic reason?

    Hahahahaha... pathetic... when it comes to humiliating failures Russia would struggle to compete with Europe... and what is this fucking europe shit anyway.... France... the closest the Brits have come to a space programme is fucking Dr Who and Red Dwarf...

    Also European electronics don't malfunction the moment they lose air unlike some

    Let that sink in: electronics on a satellite that can't work in vacuum, peak stupidity

    Let this sink in... they have operational satellites operating all round the planet and have had operational space stations in orbit for several decades but you think they are stupid...

    ....except for an eternal pessimist with an axe to grind.

    He is a teacher isn't he... probably being overwhelmed by trying to understand over 200 new genders his American overlords are demanding he teach the next generation of serb nationalists...

    It is OK... he can belittle the space achievements of Russia, and claim they are morons... it reflects more on him than it does on Russia or Russians working hard to avoid becoming what he has clearly become. What is it called? Stockholm syndrome?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:35 am

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExoMars

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Space_Agency_programs_and_missions


    Regardless of it being Wikipedia, it puts the resident troll's BS into perspective. Russia is begging for money from NATzO is it?
    Keep lying, Balkanoid troll.

    Must be real hard and frustrating for Serbia to pay Russia's space budget when Serbia has zero space capability.

    BTW, Russia has basically no cooperation (and money) from NASA. The ISS and launches of US astronauts are obviously
    irrelevant to the troll's claims.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:38 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:There is nothing more pathetic than a fanboy...
    ....except for an eternal pessimist with an axe to grind.

    I am a realist

    And I can't wait for Roskosmos to give me reason to sing them praises but so far not much to write home about

    Hell, even the ever underperforming Navy has been on the upward trajectory in recent years



    GarryB wrote:.....He is a teacher isn't he... probably being overwhelmed by trying to understand over 200 new genders his American overlords are demanding he teach the next generation of serb nationalists...

    Sorry to report but we are still working with paltry 2 genders

    We are nowhere near the numbers that superpowers like Canada or New Zealand are rolling with these days... Embarassed



    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:22 am

    Well Serbia is only a US priority when it comes to bombing coordinates, I guess they will have the sex talk to you in a few years from now...

    And I can't wait for Roskosmos to give me reason to sing them praises but so far not much to write home about

    They continue to access space... pretty damn good for a third world gas station on the brink of collapse... imagine what they would be doing if they were as advanced and special as Americans or their lessor subspecies... yuropeeing...
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:14 am

    Ukropian saboteurs maybe.

    They want to make Russia as broken-down as their own country. Misery loves company.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:30 am

    flamming_python wrote:Ukropian saboteurs maybe.

    They want to make Russia as broken-down as their own country. Misery loves company.

    Simple way to find and stomp down on those cockroaches would be to install security cameras in rocket assembly halls but I guess that would be too advanced move for Trampoline Man...

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:22 am

    flamming_python wrote:Ukropian saboteurs maybe.

    They want to make Russia as broken-down as their own country. Misery loves company.

    It looks like Russian law enforcement and Roscosmos and its contractors have finally got their act together and
    actively look for sabotage and find it. Ten years ago this was not the case. As they say, an ounce of
    prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    As with the jihadi terrorists like the ones recently busted in Crimea, this is bad news for Russia's enemies.

    Naturally some here will want to paint this is a "fail". bounce
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:04 am

    If only there were some advanced technology capable of recoding and storing images from stationary position...

    Are you honestly that stupid?

    I guess shoplifting does not happen in the west because they have security cameras... the obvious problem is that sabotage can be as simple as something put in upside down or not screwed in properly... how many thousands of cameras will you need to view over every workers shoulder would you need to capture that?

    More importantly several million man hours go in to making and preparing these things who the fuck is going to sit through a million hours of video footage to make sure everything is done right and what sort of delays will that incur because there is no way you could clear something for operational use if no one has checked the videos to make sure it was assembled properly... and generally the footage from most security camera is crap... people who are stealing or breaking the rules that you want to catch know they are there so at the very least they will take measures to disguise what they are doing... it is hardly likely they will commit their sabotage wearing the uniform of foreign country they are working for when they do it...

    BTW all these new cameras you are talking about and of course the people to manage them... make sure they record properly and the recordings are kept and checked.... congrats you just added a billion dollars to the bill... and for what? A minuscule chance of catching something... most likely just adding a few more people to those that need to be bribed or incompetent...
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:07 am

    To give you an idea of how amazing security cameras are, the last place I worked spent a fortune putting cameras in so the boss could sit in his office all day watching the staff... but the company that they paid to do it said the installers would show them how to use it before they left... they didn't... so no one knows how to use it... the cameras are poorly placed and there are plenty of blind spots... and the camera technology is now obsolete with poor footage so they could use smaller cheaper hard drives to record the footage... rendering them totally useless anyway... even if they knew how to even see footage that is not live...
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:14 am

    Either this is an incredible coincidence or something about the next video is true..
    the next video you will see. was posted 10 years ago.. in youtube.. i did not believed
    on it ,when first i saw it.. but now the information there sounds more believable than
    ever.. because i don't believe in coincidences..

    Will anyone believe that a decade ago ,there were videos of people who claimed
    to be insiders from western elites , claiming they were planning a biological attack on china?

    the next video comes from investigators from the unknown in global politics  ,a conspirational website
    as they call them ,who invite whistlerblowers or any insiders to share with them any important
    information about world politics..   naturally they at times fake wistlerblowers who visit their show
    only for fame ,but other times their reports turn to be verified later...to be correct.. from other sources.
     
    by Bill Ryan , feb 16 2010 video..
    from project camelot , their website. who investigate
    mysteries and conspiracies ,from a serious investigative point of view.



    discussion about the video above...



    for comparison ,Israel netanyahu was bragging 10 years ago ,
    that Lebanon will cease to exist.. and he told it with total confidence..
    i never understood what he mean by that.. until arab spring happened and isis
    nearly over run syria and israel was openly announcing plans to invade syria to create
    safe zones.. as turkey did in the north.. to partition syria..
    and the arab spring was warned in 2007 ,that was in plans too , by
    a nato retired general wesley clark.. that there was plans since 2003 to remove
    7 countries in 5 year.. after 911 world trade center inside job attacks ,those plans
    later turned to be muslim brotherhood/alqaeda revolutions to overthrow secular nations
    and install government pro nato and pro israel in all africa and middle east. including
    to overthrow governments in iran and syria and lebanon too.

    This means ,that western elites ,who interfere in world politics ,likes to brag about their crimes and wars
    projects they have way before it happen.. through directly speaking about it.. or throw entertainment industry.
    so there are no coincidences in politics..but cause and effect.

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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:To give you an idea of how amazing security cameras are, the last place I worked spent a fortune putting cameras in so the boss could sit in his office all day watching the staff... but the company that they paid to do it said the installers would show them how to use it before they left... they didn't... so no one knows how to use it... the cameras are poorly placed and there are plenty of blind spots... and the camera technology is now obsolete with poor footage so they could use smaller cheaper hard drives to record the footage... rendering them totally useless anyway... even if they knew how to even see footage that is not live...

    The camera topic is yet another lame attempt to smear Russia by the resident Balkanoid troll. You see Russians are too dumb to think of
    such "obvious" (Laughing) solutions.

    The problem of sabotage is no less challenging than that of terrorism. You simply need human intelligence operations to break into
    terrorist cells and networks. Sabateurs are even more of a challenge since they do not need cells and communications with some boss.
    This is one of the reasons it has taken so long. I am sure the "obvious" issue of quality assurance will be invoked to argue that
    stopping sabotage is trivial. BS. As with the hole drilled into the capsule on the ISS, finding sabotage by inspection is very time
    consuming and expensive. You basically have to tear apart the apparatus and rebuild it from scratch. Developing a component network
    monitoring system is not something that happens overnight and is a tech evolution like smart phones. But even with an onboard monitoring
    network there are parts that cannot be tracked (e.g. screws, rivets, plates, etc.). It is physically impossible to make every part
    of a device live in cyber space.

    So it comes back to tracking humans which means background checks, monitoring psychological status at work, etc. No camera network is
    going to make this possible, you need to mount the camera to the head of each employee and record their face and what they are doing
    for the whole workday. Imagine the shrieks of "human rights" abuse if that was ever done.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 pm


    GarryB wrote:To give you an idea of how amazing security cameras are, the last place I worked spent a fortune putting cameras in so the boss could sit in his office all day watching the staff....

    Only point you managed to make with this (repeated) story is that your boss is a moron not that cameras don't work

    1) You are not supposed to look at footage live (this isn't the 70's)

    2) You can store videos for later review (unlike the 70's)

    3) Should anything happen (like with bolts recently) you can review the footage and see who is the one who screwed up instead of chasing random guesses and making up conspiracy theories while making complete ass of yourself

    And if you want real life example we have cameras in school hallways and yard so any time kids do something stupid we can load footage, see what exactly happened and slap down the little shit who did it

    Discipline skyrocketed because kids know they can't get away with it anymore




    kvs wrote:The camera topic is yet another lame attempt to smear Russia by the resident Balkanoid troll. You see Russians are too dumb to think of such "obvious" solutions....

    Oh sure, it's balkanoid troll which makes Trampoline Man stupid  Wink  

    Speaking of obvious solutions here is another one that would have kept Roskosmos from making idiots of themselves yet again: use better thrusters

    ExoMars rover mission delayed to late 2022

    https://spacenews.com/exomars-rover-mission-delayed-to-late-2022/

    ......................
    ...Damage to the chutes at the point of extraction from their bags was identified as the cause of the failures, inspectors from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory found. New tests were scheduled for December and February, but have been pushed back to late March.

    The new high altitude drop tests will be carried out in Oregon in the United States. The Esrange Space Center, northern Sweden, hosted the earlier tests.

    The unprecedented size and complexity of the parachute system is related to the lander provided by Roscosmos. A more powerful retropropulsive system on the lander would have allowed the mission to require only one main chute
    , according to Spoto. NASA pulled out of the mission in 2012 due to budget cuts, having committed to the mission with ESA in 2009.

    Damn those balkanoid trolls!!! angry


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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:06 am

    Only point you managed to make with this (repeated) story is that your boss is a moron not that cameras don't work

    The boss was a moron, but cameras can only do so much... they are fixed to a wall and can only show so much... you can stare for hours of technicians working on wiring... how the hell are you supposed to see one piece of wiring that maybe thirty technicians work on over the period of a week, where one technician might disconnect something and connect it somewhere else... if no one working on the wiring notices how are cameras supposed to help? Was it the last person working on it that did it, or the first person? You would never be able to tell from the footage.

    For a shop unless the shoplifter is trying to carry a table or bean bag full of beans out of the store you have to see them pick something up and slip it into their pocket or things and they will pick things up and walk around with them and put them down all over the place while they are working out where the cameras are... once they have worked it out they will take what they want to steal to blind spots and then slip things away on their person... when they come back in to view there is no evidence on camera they have stolen anything or done anything wrong... if they try to leave you cannot touch them because there is only suspicion and no evidence they are stealing... touch them and you might find yourself on charges of assault...

    1) You are not supposed to look at footage live (this isn't the 70's)

    2) You can store videos for later review (unlike the 70's)

    Of course... so you spend money on cameras and only review the footage after the rocket blows up during launch to try to work out who just blew up millions of dollars in very expensive satellites... yeah, no, you are right... they do need cameras... Rolling Eyes

    3) Should anything happen (like with bolts recently) you can review the footage and see who is the one who screwed up instead of chasing random guesses and making up conspiracy theories while making complete ass of yourself

    But how do you tell... these cameras are on the wall showing areas, these are not cameras in a TV series that follow each person around showing a clear view of what everyone is doing... behind one panel there might be dozens of circuits and wires and components that might be access hundreds of times over the period of a week by 20 different technicians... each time they will be focussed on this bit or that bit... which will likely be clear from the time sheets and instruction lists... who is going to check everything else is OK and then do what they are supposed to be doing? The sabotage or even error could have been done at any time and simply not noticed.

    And if you want real life example we have cameras in school hallways and yard so any time kids do something stupid we can load footage, see what exactly happened and slap down the little shit who did it

    Yeah, I have worked in a school before too that got cameras... one time a teacher had her purse stolen off her desk while everyone was in assembly... problem was coverage you could see someone walking towards a door but not good enough to identify the person and no cameras over the entrances and exits to get a better view... I was IT support at the time... they didn't know how to work the security cameras and asked me to take a look... it worked out to be pointless. The cameras were simply not in the right places... for this specific crime.

    BTW if cameras are so wonderful London has an enormous number of cameras, yet knife crime is a serious problem... the obvious problem is that it is only useful after the event to find out who was involved assuming it has coverage, and most people who carry knives wont use them in front of a camera... funny that...

    Discipline skyrocketed because kids know they can't get away with it anymore

    Teaching them to look for cameras and take their crimes elsewhere... or do you think it has turned them in to angels?



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    Post  Vann7 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:51 am

    And so it  begins.. China senior government official accuse United States of being behind
    of the Corona Virus infection in china..  didn't take long.. for the secret to explode..




    Where was your patient zero?’ Chinese official speculates AMERICANS may have infected Wuhan at army games & calls to ‘come clean’

    2/2 CDC was caught on the spot. When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!


    https://www.rt.com/news/482990-china-coronavirus-us-come-clean/


    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 35 5e6ad9ab2030275eed4e4ff4

    One interesting fact.. just couple of weeks before the Corona virus exploded in China.. americans soldiers
    delegation participated in wuhan military games.. in china.. coincidence ?   No

    The Western elites are pure evil , and the only way to stop this madness is a major revolution in US
    with public execution to all terrorist in their government. this virus does not behave or spread like a normal virus will do , its very selective , and jump nations.. italy, germany and france , heavily attacked.. but countries at their borders not.. china attacked but kazakistana and russia that share a border not.. Azerbajian neither attacked that shares border with iran. it is as if the main source who spread the virus attacks heavily only the nations that Trump was in a major trade war...


    like i said before ,if confirmed this was a biological attack on China ,this could
    trigger a ugly war .. and very lethal response.. including nuclear weapons used with a few hundred
    of americans killed just to send a major message ultimatum and an international scandal..  and if it not
    proven with evidence.. but Chinese strongly have intelligence they did it.. it could trigger a biological secret response of epic proportions in US by China.
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    Post  andalusia on Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:22 am

    Vann7 wrote:And so it  begins.. China senior government official accuse United States of being behind
    of the Corona Virus infection in china..  didn't take long.. for the secret to explode..




    Where was your patient zero?’ Chinese official speculates AMERICANS may have infected Wuhan at army games & calls to ‘come clean’

    2/2 CDC was caught on the spot. When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!


    https://www.rt.com/news/482990-china-coronavirus-us-come-clean/


    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 35 5e6ad9ab2030275eed4e4ff4

    One interesting fact.. just couple of weeks before the Corona virus exploded in China.. americans soldiers
    delegation participated in wuhan military games.. in china.. coincidence ?   No

    The Western elites are pure evil , and the only way to stop this madness is a major revolution in US
    with public execution to all terrorist in their government. this virus does not behave or spread like a normal virus will do , its very selective , and jump nations.. italy, germany and france , heavily attacked.. but countries at their borders not.. china attacked but kazakistana and russia that share a border not.. Azerbajian neither attacked that shares border with iran. it is as if the main source who spread the virus attacks heavily only the nations that Trump was in a major trade war...


    like i said before ,if confirmed this was a biological attack on China ,this could
    trigger a ugly war .. and very lethal response.. including nuclear weapons used with a few hundred
    of americans killed just to send a major message ultimatum and an international scandal..  and if it not
    proven with evidence.. but Chinese strongly have intelligence they did it.. it could trigger a biological secret response of epic proportions in US by China.

    Vann forget about a major revolution happening here in the US with Americans holding the government accountable. Americans are sheep and there is very little choice between the Democrats and the Republicans; both parties support evil American imperialism and corrupt IMF, World Bank and other financial terrorism. Moreover, many Americans support the corrupt foreign policy of the US.

    This is the first time I have ever heard of the World Military Games. I thought this is why we have the Olympic Games. What is the purpose of having your enemy march in uniform in your country for some stupid games?
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    Post  andalusia on Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:30 am

    Vann7 on another point.  It would be good if Russian and other countries around the world were to embrace interest free money issued by the government.  I wish to generate more discussion on this forum about this topic.

    This is an important read for students of history and economics. This book is not a dry textbook of Feder's proposed economic theory. It appears to be meant as a concise, readable document to be used as a tool to educate post WWI Germans that there is an alternative to the economy that was thrusted on them; one that was not based on interest. The book also effectively unmasks the "global capitalists" or "Mammonists" that posed a threat to Germany (and world) whose sole goal for living is to "pile money on top of money."

    On balance, I find Feder's views quite convincing. Feder's program was more or less put into practice when Chancellor Hitler came to power. Further it proved highly successful as Germany pulled out of the depths of depression within a few years (Great Britain and United States remained in economic depression/recession until WWII pulled them out.) Since WWII, very little has been discussed about this success. Most historians I find cast a biased dark light on this period and make unsupported claims that Germany's economic rebound was attributed mostly to militarization (untrue).

    I think Feder's theory in whole/part may be put in practice today. Particularly, given the current global financial debacle and unfathomable concentration wealth is the "stuff" he warned his readers nearly 100 years ago. I think it is well worth the intellectual exercise by our politicians, academics, and business leaders to determine the viability of Feder's approach. That said, I believe that for this plan to truly work a nation's citizenry must be willing to act as community and its leaders must be honest and interested in doing what's best for their constituents. Working against all this are the same Mammonists Feder spoke of back in 1919.

    This is the economic theory that transformed Germany in the 30s. Gottfried Feder attacks the banking system of the Western world, which is why his book is suppressed.

    The core of it is ending usury by bringing the privately owned banking system that controls the Western world under public supervision. Interest ought not to be charged for socially necessary projects, such as building homes for people, and factories to create work.

    Usury, living off interest charged on loans of money, contravenes the canons of all the main religions of the world. It divides and destroys communities by creating vast differences of wealth. Usurers grow wealthy at great speed, without creating anything of value, and thereby devalue the amounts of money earned by people who do the useful work of making things or performing services.

    https://www.amazon.com/Manifesto-Breaking-Financial-Slavery-Interest-ebook/dp/B07QSWXBM7/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1583486114&refinements=p_27%3AGottfried+Feder&s=digital-text&sr=1-2&text=Gottfried+Feder

    http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

    https://federsgenius.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/the-solution-labour-based-currency/
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Of course... so you spend money on cameras and only review the footage after the rocket blows up during launch to try to work out who just blew up millions of dollars in very expensive satellites...

    When first rocket went tits up due to some moron playing fast and loose with the hammer they should have reviewed the footage, find which one(s) were doing it and then peeled him like an orange to get him to explain why (and for who) he did it for

    After that rest of the gophers should have been shown PowerPoint presentation of that moron's experience which would nullify potential for similar incidents

    Instead they have dozen of rockets burning up instead of just one and counting



    GarryB wrote:...behind one panel there might be dozens of circuits and wires and components that might be access hundreds of times over the period of a week by 20 different technicians

    You narrow down the number using footage and then you squeeze

    Alternative is stumbling in the dark and making up stupid nonsense like blaming secret American EVAs for holes in the Soyuz while making complete ass of yourself



    GarryB wrote:...Yeah, I have worked in a school before too that got cameras... one time a teacher had her purse stolen off her desk while everyone was in assembly... problem was coverage you could see someone walking towards a door but not good enough to identify the person and no cameras over the entrances and exits to get a better view...

    Then get better cameras and more of them

    Once we installed ours we immediately caught next several idiots doing stupid crap and threw the book at them, afterwards all we had to deal with was trivial nonsense because they knew they can't get away with anything anymore

    Stop trying to blame human failures (and failed humans) on technology because that's Roskosmos' shtick



    GarryB wrote:Teaching them to look for cameras ...

    They can look all day long, cameras are everywhere and are looking right back



    GarryB wrote:...and take their crimes elsewhere... or do you think it has turned them in to angels?

    Who cares what they are, our job is delivered lessons and make sure they behave at school, that's it

    Once they leave school grounds they are problem for parents and police

    Same applies for Roskosmos, it doesn't matter if their gophers slash neighbor's tires as long as they don't trash the rockets, everything else is job for police



    BigGazza wrote:Conceal the failings of the Eurotrash and somehow connive a way to Blame Russia...

    Rover is European, everything else including landing system is Russian so yeah Russia is the one which gets the blame




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    Post  Vann7 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:30 pm

    @andalusia
    None of that will work to change the criminal system in place.
    In my opinion Putin is part of the problem for his failed strategy to counter the US corruption system
    in the world.  He have been endorsing since he came to power the american corrupt system..
    working inside of it , hoping that as long he have nukes and modernize its military ,and show politeness
    to the west, that americans elites will allow Russia to make a ton of money selling oil with Europe building pipelines .

    Putin when he came to power ,he should have realised that the west don't want peace ,that US breaking the soviet union will not be enough for them,  and will stop at nothing ,to continue destabilizing Russia to break it even more.

    Things US and UK did as soon soviet union collapsed..

    1) began yugoeslavia war... to break it ,this was a war against Russian interest there.
    2) began the chechen wars.. in caucasus.. even Putin himself told on interview that their intelligence agencies
      intercepted communications between US embassy and the chechen terrorist seeking to split caucasus away
     of Russia.
    3) the deployment of nuclear missiles in turkey by US and military bases right on Russian borders.
    4) the world trade center 911 attacks.. this was a clear inside job.. that putin helped to cover too.. by defending
       the official story..
    5)US interference in ukraine  began as soon soviet union collapsed in early 90s.. it should have been clear for
     the idiot ,that the west wanted to encircle Russia with military bases.. what Putin did to  counter that?  nothing.
     he remained passive ..
    6)US war on iraq.. it should have been very clear for him.. why americans were so interested in iraqui oil ,
    is not because americans need it.. since saudi arabia have a lot , he should have knownn that it was a war
    against russia interest there too.. to control oil resources in the world.. and later flood the market with oil ,to damage russia economy that depends heavily on oil..
    7)bush abandoning the ABM treaty in europe ,to deploy missiles aiming at Russia near its borders..
    Cool US color revolution in Georgia ,to place a government hostile to Russia there. . this was on 2008..

    and if none of this things were enough to send signals to Putin ,that US was effectively in an undeclared war ,seeking to break Russia economy. you had Obama.. fake peace maker ,proposing ending wars..in election ,but just like every other ,do a 180 degree turn, began another war in Syria arming thousands of terrorist in 2011 to over run it.. So if reagan ,the bush ,the clintons and obamas.. decades of US foreign policy under different administrations,did not dropped US alliance with sunni terrorist ,did not ended US very hostile foreign policy ,
    to hurt Russia national security and interest in the world.. Then if putin learned nothing all those years..decades then is because he had to suffer from a major brain dysfunction.. anyone with a brain will have realized.. that restoring relations with US was impossible.. that the american elite ,wanted to break Russia again ,just like they did to soviet union.. and more importantly.. any one with common sense and reason ,will have realized ,that
    Russian nukes will be useless to defend Russia ,if americans tactics ,was an indirect war.. through breaking Russia economy by isolating it and by capturing oil reserves around the world.. for later flood the market to
    damage russia economy.

    So Putin if he any understanding of how to defend its nation ,he should have realized ,that better nukes will
    not help ..to dissuade Americans to abandon their undeclared war on Russia. he should have realized ,that his nation economy need to end totally its dependence on oil .. but what the moron did? he double down on oil..
    and began to waste a fortune on russia budget trying to turn Russia into an oil and gas monopoly in the world.
    ignoring the fact that US can easily start a war on oil prices..and make that business unprofitable for Russia.

    The only possible solution to stop the corrupt system in US , to stop their elites.. is either he takes gloves off ,
    and force US into peace through force.. which will have been a stupid thing when Russia is not strong enough to do it..or he stop support the US system.. by creating an alternative business world.. alternative to united nations ,alternative to US internet. alternative to american top popular business, alternative to US culture. is through success ,through leadership.. how Russia can fight back.. can break the western corrupt system.. to influence nations away (through business success ,through leadership) from the american destructive system.

    So instead of doubling down in oil , he should have promote a free energy revolution ,to break US energy industry and break the gulf monarchies ,that use oil to finance terrorism. Instead of promoting meaningless sports ,and stupid sport medals.. he should have promoted space exploration medals.. instead of victory parades
    and russian past traditions ,he should have promoted a modern culture ,to counter the american one..  Russia lack of a leader ,with understanding ,how to counter US ,is the absolute major problem Russia face.. Putin wants
    to continue inside the american system and later complains Russia is not respected there.. No  so why he doesn't create his own system ? why continue following an unfair system if it is biased against him? because the idiot still have hopes that americans elite will "come back to it senses" when he shows them a powerful army
    and better nukes. Rolling Eyes  the only one that need to come back to its senses is Putin.. the west knows what they want. is only putin and his country that is undecided what it wants.. because if they follow a corrupt system ,
    that is bad for them.. then they are the ones to blame for being burned later.. putin is like a wife ,that his husband beat her every night ,and she complains about it.. but instead of leaving him ,and starting a new life,
    she continues accepting to live under his house.  Neutral

    BRICS is a failed attempt to create an alternative world ,from the US , no action , that putin ever does..
    that completely ignore business sucess,will work.. it is success ,business leadership in civilian world.. the only
    thing that will allow Russia to create an alternative system.. he don't need to do it all.. alone.. he have China,and india that will happily help.. the important thing is that they invest heavily in counter the most influential and popular business of the west.. one step and a time and that Russia stop wasting its nation budge in more pipelines and more olympics bullshit or more pretty expensive parks.. and focus in real game changing things.
    Russia main problems is lack of business leadership.. it needs to imitate china innovative economy.. that is the only nation countering the american system.. now china challenges and surpass US it business and communications and smartphones.. this is not a small thing... russia could help with the processors and software ,and even more could help developing a new internet.. a new space station between brics nations.. and so on..
    things like that is what will catch the attention of the world.. and let them realize ,that there is an alternative.
    US elites corruption is only possible ,because no one challenge their system. and so nations fear to be isolated from it.. which means no longer to have access to american business. Even though this things will affect US economy initially.. it will not be a bad thing.. because it will end the wars ,when no longer the world most development nations follows the US system ,the US economic fraud will end ,and will become a real economy.
    and the best thing of all ,is that this will influence US to cooperate with Russia and china ,if it desire to have
    a strong economy again..  and not being left behind.. so this will be a good thing for americans.. their government no longer will waste its money in wars and will focus on business and cooperations with russia and china.. and will save the world from an ugly war.

    some interesting things in closing. .to pay attention..
    jobs being destroyed by this man made biological virus..
    - tourism and travel
    - sports events.
    - public meetings ,celebrations and parades..
    -oil industry , since less people go outside.
    -

    this are areas that Putin's invest heavily a fortune from its budget to promote .

    jobs that are being boosted/promoted by this corona virus incident.
    - internet jobs ,
    -digital entertainment industry games,movies,music ,digital art.
    - arts and music
    -online based business.
    -tutorial online base business.
    -social media online.
    -computer or electronics gadgets like smart phones related business.
    -education online (now classes are being moved to the safety of online)
    -software developer industry

    So nations that have very modern economies.. and are heavily internet connected
    are the ones that handles better the corona virus crisis.. those countries that have a solid
    infrastructure of internet and online universities and college and online shoopping is very strong.
    in china this was one of the major business boom ,everyone stays at house ,order online groceries
    and people send it to their home. this is how a modern economy looks like.. is very difficult if not
    impossible to stop a digital business based economy , and this is an area putin the outdated President
    should heavily invest.. in the creation of small house to house business.. in the government heavy promotion
    of ebay like business ,where every house ,every family ,from the commodity of their homes ,can work ,
    and can sell something online to a neighbor or someone across the world. if Putin was not such a fool..
    he will be promoting heavily small business revolution . kickstart start business.. where common people
    fund business and not big money greedy corporations.. this way everyone ,every house in russia can become
    a small shop.. that pays no rent for its building .. and such business the government can offer online
    infrastructure ,security and earn a profit for every transaction.. and such business are impossible to sanction or interfere by the west..

    this is another reason why Russia needs to create a new internet.. to fully digitalize its nation economy
    and become a modern economy.. not an outdated one as it is ,based on commodities ,food exports and oil.

    the basic food industry is important.. but government should not be focusing too much on it.. it should be promoted each family to have its own self independence and produce food too ,in their own backyard. and later
    sell it online .
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    BigGazza wrote:Conceal the failings of the Eurotrash and somehow connive a way to Blame Russia...

    Rover is European, everything else including landing system is Russian so yeah Russia is the one which gets the blame

    Not true. The parachutes are European, as are some of the landing controls and communications components. The descent propulsion system is based on that of the Schiaparelli test lander that failed in ExoMars TGO, built by the Italians, successfully "litho-braking" by hitting the surface at about 500km/hr... The failure was due to a spin sensor over-saturating and causing a software glitch that resulted in a spike in the altitude reading that went negative, ie below ground level, so the probe imitated its landing sequence while still at at altitude, ESA insists that this won't happen on the rover mission, and its not like the God-like Europeans (who unlike lowly Russians, don't live in mud huts) could ever be wrong about anything?...

    Russia gets the blame because they are Russian. Its the international equivalent of the US practise of arresting dudes for "walking while black".
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    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:44 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    BigGazza wrote:Conceal the failings of the Eurotrash and somehow connive a way to Blame Russia...

    Rover is European, everything else including landing system is Russian so yeah Russia is the one which gets the blame

    Not true.  The parachutes are European, as are some of the landing controls and communications components.  The descent propulsion system is based on that of the Schiaparelli test lander that failed in ExoMars TGO, built by the Italians, successfully "litho-braking" by hitting the surface at about 500km/hr...   The failure was due to a spin sensor over-saturating and causing a software glitch that resulted in a spike in the altitude reading that went negative, ie below ground level, so the probe imitated its landing sequence while still at at altitude,  ESA insists that this won't happen on the rover mission, and its not like the God-like Europeans (who unlike lowly Russians, don't live in mud huts) could ever be wrong about anything?...

    Russia gets the blame because they are Russian.  Its the international equivalent of the US practise of arresting dudes for "walking while black".

    Nothing puts the smack down like truth. Troll bleaters can run and hide.

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:28 am

    When first rocket went tits up due to some moron playing fast and loose with the hammer they should have reviewed the footage, find which one(s) were doing it and then peeled him like an orange to get him to explain why (and for who) he did it for

    You are assuming it was intentional and not a mistake or sabotaged materials for that matter... who is going to notice a bolt made to lower tolerances or designed to fail at certain temperatures... the west has a long history of making lumps of coal with an explosive filler to destroy trains...

    How is footage going to tell you anything except who was the last person to work on a particular thing... are you expecting zoomed in footage showing his hands unscrewing things when he should have been screwing them in or some such bullshit?

    Perhaps on some TV show where it needs to be sorted out in an hour, but in the real world it is very unlikely to provide useful information except that the guy scheduled to do the work actually was there and appeared to be doing the work.

    After that rest of the gophers should have been shown PowerPoint presentation of that moron's experience which would nullify potential for similar incidents

    Yes, comrade Stalin... threaten them and their families... that always works... except when it does not.

    Instead they have dozen of rockets burning up instead of just one and counting

    Wow.... Russians must be perfect if the only way there could be a rocket failure is sabotage... amazing...

    You narrow down the number using footage and then you squeeze

    Squeeze with what? Of course on TV shows you work out which button to push and it makes them talk, but in the real world threatening your workers... most of which have done nothing wrong is a wonderful formula to get your workers to sabotage the work just because you are a censored and you are the one that clearly gets it if things go wrong.

    Alternative is stumbling in the dark and making up stupid nonsense like blaming secret American EVAs for holes in the Soyuz while making complete ass of yourself

    Of course... stalin interrogations and water boarding, or conspirasy theories worse than yours... they are the only two possible options... thank goodness the company is run by much more sane people than you.

    Investigations need to be made and procedures need to be checked... if it was a mistake then who signed off on the work without properly checking things... talk to the people concerned and try to work out what happened. Ironically not rocket science... but clearly beyond some here...

    Then get better cameras and more of them

    Of course... spend more money on something that can be evaded... why not personal body cameras like US cops have to wear these days because they can't be trusted not to shoot black people... but I wonder if someone is going to try to sabotage something as complex as a rocket where even a single pin or bolt not working properly can be catastrophic is anyone going to notice it no matter what the camera footage quality is. What if there are 50 saboteurs? Beat 10,000 workers to a pulp and water board them for a month and then 12 months in solitary confinement only to find those 50 saboteurs didn't let them know what they were doing?

    Obviously you are management material...

    Once we installed ours we immediately caught next several idiots doing stupid crap and threw the book at them, afterwards all we had to deal with was trivial nonsense because they knew they can't get away with anything anymore

    Stop trying to blame human failures (and failed humans) on technology because that's Roskosmos' shtick

    Of course... if cameras can correct bad behaviour in public places then obviously it will immediately detect when a bolt has been left off or some component has been forced in backwards because cameras are really good at that... NOT.


    Who cares what they are, our job is delivered lessons and make sure they behave at school, that's it

    So as long as they don't hit each other these technicians should be fine no matter how many cameras you have right?

    Once they leave school grounds they are problem for parents and police

    Yeah, no ownership or personal responsibility... once they are gone from here they are not my problem... but the amusing thing is that you think you have a solution...

    OK... so a Rocket has spent 6 months being assembled... it has all been filmed thousands of man hours from hundreds of cameras... and the rocket is launched and there is a failure... how do the cameras help? First you need to work out what went wrong... there is no point in looking at footage of the assembly of the rocket until you know what you are looking for but even if you know what you are looking for you now have thousands of hours of footage to look through... you will also have work sheets and they will tell you who did what and who signed off on what, but you want cameras to show peoples backs while they work on components inside the rockets...

    Same applies for Roskosmos, it doesn't matter if their gophers slash neighbor's tires as long as they don't trash the rockets, everything else is job for police

    But that is where you are wrong... you have to check the backgrounds of all the people who had access... finding someone gets off on burning houses or tires is always going to be a red flag... just like finding someone getting a large cash payment in their bank... but no... fitting cameras will solve everything... Rolling Eyes

    Nothing puts the smack down like truth. Troll bleaters can run and hide.

    The problem with Trolls is that they make a statement and stick to it no matter what... they are not wrong, they are just not right this time... but they are right about everything else...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:Of course...

    Of course, going with system of personal responsibility is too bourgeois

    Instead they should use the good old honor system, it always works so amazing

    In tje meantime rockets and payloads will continue to get torched but I guess sacrificing space program is a small price to pay for keeping morons away from more vital projects so it's a win all things considered


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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:32 am

    Of course, going with system of personal responsibility is too bourgeois

    Yeah, make it about communism... even though Russia has been electing its government for almost 30 years now.

    Cameras do have their uses... in a he said she said situation being able to play back what each person said and what they did ends any conjecture and forgotten facts or outright lies. Amusingly I have seen the introduction of cameras in schools here and sometimes it turns out the bad kids aren't always at fault every time which is very useful because some "good" kids can get away with occasional bad behaviour because their word is trusted... something it is too late to teach the bad kids because their rep is shot.

    The point is we are talking about technical skilled labour... you are telling us cameras stop fighting and theft and just outright attacks in the playground, but for sabotage in a factory it just wont be effective... it is like someone writing rude stuff in a shared work book... you can look through the footage and see who accessed it and who used it last but unless everyone who uses it checks everything previously written in the book before they write then there is a good chance you might not be able to tell by using the camera who wrote the naughty words about the head master...

    Equally if someone takes out a wire or reverses its polarity in an act of sabotage then unless someone notices it a camera is unlikely to be the tool of choice to investigate.

    There should be checks made to make sure everything is as it should be before a panel is closed off and signed off as being done, but things happen so sometimes those panels will need to be accessed again... and it is easy to fake records and signatures if you need to.

    Instead they should use the good old honor system, it always works so amazing

    At the end of the day in the real world you have to trust people. To work building rockets is not an entry level job... make sure pay and conditions are good and keep an eye on your people... there is no way to completely eliminate the threat and having cameras everywhere pointing at them like they are criminals might be OK in London or in schools, but most workplaces it is a waste of time and money... hundreds of cameras in a factory with 10,000 man hours of work to assemble and do all the testing on a rocket means hundreds of thousands of hours of footage to look through and that is only if you don't include down times at night... but you need to check then too of course...

    In tje meantime rockets and payloads will continue to get torched but I guess sacrificing space program is a small price to pay for keeping morons away from more vital projects so it's a win all things considered

    Their failure rate is not high enough to assume sabotage on anything.

    Besides the US made companies put backdoors inside computer chips of all types expressly for the purpose of trying to make Soviet nuclear power stations fail... officially it didn't really work... Chernobyl was a cock up of their own design...

    I certainly think the west would sabotage Russian technology if they get the chance... would be funny if that was what started WWIII... faulty CPUs in control circuits for ICBM launch systems....
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    Post  kvs on Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:21 pm

    This camera debate is a waste of time. As I already pointed out, the only way to capture sabotage is to mount cameras on the body
    of every worker. That includes head mounted units on an extended arm that look where the eyes are looking and additionally
    monitor the hands. So the wearer cannot look away and do something with their hands.

    Remote, wall or ceiling mounted cameras are vastly less effective. Even a ceiling mounted camera above every workplace (assuming
    workplaces are confined and visible from the ceiling; this is not generally true since workers do their jobs inside fuel tanks
    and often have their jobs spread over different locations) could be defeated with the right sort of body pose or other cover.

    Anyway the Balkanoid troll can keep his hate fantasy projecting, but Russia's security forces are starting to effectively clamp
    down on NATzO's 5th column maggots on a whole front. From actual terrorist cells to industrial sabateurs. I suggest they
    drop the EU-tard fake morality restrictions on the death penalty and re-instate death by firing squad for treason including
    terrorism and sabotage.

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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:52 pm

    kvs wrote:but Russia's security forces are starting to effectively clamp
    down on NATzO's 5th column maggots...

    Longest start (decades) in recorded history, once it's actually done staring I assume results will be unprecedented lol1



    kvs wrote:...to industrial sabateurs...

    Not.

    A.

    Single.

    One.

    So.

    Far.



    kvs wrote:Anyway the Balkanoid troll...


    How goes the gender count in proud independent nation of Canada? Razz




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