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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    GarryB
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:59 pm

    UEC-Klimov for the first time showed a demonstrator of the long-awaited helicopter engine VK-650V
    December 13, 2021

    This power plant is planned to be used in the Ansat, VRT-500 and Ka-226T helicopters, which currently use imported engines. In addition, there are plans to create a hybrid power plant based on the VK-650V for promising aircraft.

    The Rostec United Engine Corporation also sees prospects for exporting this engine, primarily to countries such as India and China.

    The engine is installed on a new test bench #35 built this year and is currently undergoing engineering tests.

    And don't let the word "demonstrator" fool you. In fact, structurally, the engine is very close to what should happen in reality. In fact, this is already a prototype, which differs from the serial one mainly in that a number of parts for it were not created using serial technologies. But this is common practice.


    According to the developers, during the testing process, the engine does not present surprises and gives out the characteristics that were put into it during the R&D process.

    The main part of the test tests is planned to be completed in 2022, in 2023 to reach certification and start mass production of the VK-650V engine.

    Translated to English here:
    https://zen-yandex-ru.translate.goog/media/sdelanounas.ru/odkklimov-vpervye-pokazal-demonstrator-dolgojdannogo-vertoletnogo-dvigatelia-vk650v-61b00086781cc81fb6d74eed?&&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB

    Going to the above link also allows you to see the photos and you can like the original post there too.

    kvs and GunshipDemocracy like this post

    GarryB
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:05 pm

    In Russia create a hybrid power plant for aviation
    December 16, 2021


    The United Engine Corporation of Rostec looks to the future, and therefore they started talking about creating a hybrid power plant (HPU). Moreover, these conversations did not start from scratch, but against the backdrop of successful tests of the latest VK-650V helicopter engine. His demonstrator is now being tested, and these tests are passing, as expected, successfully.

    I have already wrote about it, I quote myself:

    This power plant is planned to be used in the Ansat, VRT-500 and Ka-226T helicopters, which currently use imported engines. In addition, there are plans to create a hybrid power plant based on the VK-650V for promising aircraft.

    Ka-226T is one of the machines for which the VK-650V is being created.

    I modestly mentioned the hybrid here, and in the comments I was asked to tell more about it. Fortunately, at UEC-Klimov, Mikhail Shemet, deputy director of the program for advanced engines, spoke about everything in great detail.
    Preliminary 3D model of aircraft based on HSU.

    The HSU demonstrator will be ready by mid-2023. At its core, as a drive, VK-650V will be used, which by that time should already be serial. Testing will end in early 2024.

    You probably remember that the layout of the hybrid power plant was shown at MAKS. And now we have been shown the main component of the GSU - the VK-650V engine - now the concept is taking on a very real shape.

    The concept is a classic one. VK-650V is a generator drive, which, together with batteries, drives electric motors through converting and control electronics.

    Development will go in 2 stages. In the middle of 2022, that is, in six months, the first demonstrator will be created, but instead of the VK-650V, the VK-100 turbo starter will be used.


    Now work on the GSU is at the stage of issuing design documentation.

    Well, the main question - why?

    Klimovtsy look to the future, the planning horizon is 2035. This does not mean that the use of the GSU will not find it so soon, it means that the dynamics of market growth have been calculated right up to 2035, including the market for promising aircraft that do not currently exist. And this is not some kind of fantasy. These are quite normal applied calculations for the use of aircraft with hybrid installations in logistics and passenger transportation. Moreover, programs for the development of regional transportation are also taken into account, and, of course, the future use of UAVs for the transport of goods.

    It is important that HCS make it quite easy to create new aircraft architectures, for example, vertical takeoff and landing. For the transportation of passengers in hard-to-reach places, such devices are generally ideal, because they do not need a runway, they are more economical than helicopters, and, moreover, safer.

    And once again, I want to focus on this: if you think that this article is about some unrealizable dreams, then you simply did not carefully follow global trends. What they are doing now at UEC-Klimov is completely within the framework of the global trend for unmanned aircraft, which will enter our lives literally before 2030, and will become its integral part, just as a car, an airplane, a helicopter once became.

    The hybrid scheme provides not only the prospects for environmental friendliness, and this is probably not the most important thing. More importantly, such a scheme gives flexibility to the constructor. It can select the optimal operating modes of the gas turbine part, thereby increasing efficiency and reducing noise. He can change the layout of the device, because all sorts of complex transmissions practically disappear, and energy is transmitted through wires. You can easily change the weight distribution of the device, all this will allow you to create new forms of aircraft for various applications.

    And you know, after all, I wrote after MAKS 2021, and now they just almost physically feel that we are on the verge of another change in the technological order. What the science fiction writers were talking about is now right here, nearby, at hand.

    It's time to get a volume of Isaac Asimov, dust it off, and brush up on the 3 laws of robotics. Will definitely come in handy soon.

    Translated to English here:
    https://zen-yandex-ru.translate.goog/media/sdelanounas.ru/v-rossii-sozdaiut-gibridnuiu-silovuiu-ustanovku-dlia-aviacii-61b782a3e3467620615dae36?&&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB

    Going to the above link also allows you to see the photos and you can like the original post there too.

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    Kiko
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  Kiko Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:06 am

    Certification of the PD-8 engine will be accelerated

    The Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation hosted a meeting on the current situation in the civil aircraft industry. The main topic of discussion was the issues of import substitution of components. This is stated in the press service of the department.

    We are talking about the most complete replacement of all systems and components of the SSJ100 aircraft, as well as an increase in the number of aircraft produced in the imported version of the SSJ-New. The event was attended by the heads of the main integrated structures of the aviation industry.

    "The existing production facilities allow increasing the production of Superjet 100 aircraft to 40 units per year. This is the level to which we will strive to bring the production of the imported version in the coming years," the Ministry of Industry and Trade said in a statement.

    The most important condition for the implementation of these plans in the current conditions should be the replacement of the Franco-Russian SaM146 engine with the Russian PD-8. The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Denis Manturov, set the task of ensuring the certification of this engine in a shorter period than previously planned - in the next 12-14 months.

    Previously, PD-8 certification was planned to be completed by 2024. In 2022, it is planned to assemble components for an experimental batch of engines. The start of testing of the PD-8 demonstrator with the nodes installed on it is scheduled for March. The creation and certification of SSJ-New was planned to be completed before the end of 2024. This year, 18 Superjet 100 aircraft are to be built at the aircraft plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

    https://aviation21.ru/sertifikaciya-dvigatelya-pd-8-budet-uskorena/

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    Kiko
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  Kiko Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:22 am

    UEC introduced unique technologies for the production of aircraft engine blades, 09.04.2022.]

    The Rostec United Engine Corporation has introduced unique technologies for the production of aircraft engine blades. Innovative developments make it possible to manufacture parts of the most accurate shape, including large-sized ones, as well as reduce labor costs and exclude manual labor from the technological process.

    A device for spinning high-precision titanium blades and hybrid forging of blades from a two-phase titanium alloy are used in production at the Rybinsk enterprise UEC-Saturn.

    The blade of a gas turbine engine is one of the most complex and science-intensive parts in the design and manufacture. The product requires the most accurate shape, resistance to high loads and temperatures, rare metals and unique alloys are used in the production, as well as composite materials that guarantee the lightness and strength of the workpiece. There are only six states in the world that have mastered the design and manufacture of blades. Possession of such technologies is evidence of the highest level of engineering development in the country.

    “Both inventions are related to the manufacture of blade forgings. The swirling device is built into the technological process; now, with its help, blades for a promising civil aircraft engine are manufactured using completely domestic equipment, the range and competencies for the production of large-sized blades are expanding. In turn, hybrid stamping is based on the use of additive technologies and classical isothermal stamping, demonstrating the required indicators in terms of economics and mechanical characteristics,” said Igor Ilyin, Chief Engineer of PJSC UEC-Saturn.

    The inventions were presented at the international salon "Archimedes 2022", where they were awarded gold and silver awards.

    The latest technologies are actively used by the Rostec United Engine Corporation in the creation and production of a line of civil aircraft engines PD-8 for the imported SSJ-NEW, PD-14 for the medium-haul MS-21 and PD-35 for promising wide-body long-haul aircraft.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/146381/

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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty UEC Star in Perm does electronic controllers with local components and has since the 1990s

    Post  Gazputin Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:13 pm

    stumbled on this ... specialise in automated pump control systems
    do their own electronics .... all local components

    «STAR is not from the English word "star", - explains the chief designer of JSC "UEC-STAR" Sergey Vladimirovich Ostapenko, - the name of the STAR enterprise is the Automatic Regulation Fuel Supply System. And this is our main profession. If we draw a clear analogy, close enough to everyday use, then many have cars, and they should start. So this is our area of responsibility: started and went - this is us ». Only in this case we are talking about aircraft engines.

    The company's products consist of three main components:
    1) Mechanical fuel supply systems: pumps, distribution of fuel through collectors, its dosing;
    2) Electronic unit - on-board computer, which is installed directly on the engine;
    3) Management system software.

    That is, it turns out: mechanical units, electronic units, software - all these three components are developed, serially produced at this enterprise and supplied to engine factories. This type of activity, the design of units, production and repair are certified by the Russian aviation authorities.

    further on ...

    «We closed this issue for ourselves in the early nineties after we got involved with American microcircuits, which turned out to be of low quality. So do not believe in the myths that everything is always great there.

    In all our modern electronic units, there are no imported chips at all.
    If they tell you that modern aviation electronics cannot be made on the Russian element base, do not believe it.
    Let them come to Perm, we will teach them, "says Sergey Ostapenko.

    https://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2021/12/6/3338/

    UEC-STAR develops highly intelligent self-propelled guns for PD-35

    December 6, 2021 / Roman Gusarov, AVIA.RU / Aviation EXplorer

    the translation of "automated control systems" became "self propelled guns" apparently ?

    anyway thought you guys might find this interesting too ... cheers




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    Kiko
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  Kiko Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:40 am

    Russia creates unique aviation technology, by Alexey Anpilogov for VZGLYAD. April 14, 2022.

    Against the background of constant sanctions against the most important industrial sectors of Russia, our country is introducing its own latest technologies. This time we are talking about a new way of producing a key part of modern aircraft engines. What exactly is new and why is it critical for the entire aviation industry?

    The United Engine Corporation Rostec announced that its enterprises have mastered a unique technology for manufacturing aircraft engine blades. There are only six countries in the world that have complete technologies for the design and manufacture of blades - and now Russia has consolidated its leadership in this industry. To explain the exceptional importance of this event, we will have to delve into the technical part of the issue.

    A modern turbojet or turbofan engine cannot be imagined without many blades. Climbing up the gangway of a passenger plane, we see their "palisade" in the frontal projection of the aircraft engine - but this is only the first row of blades. This part of the engine that is open to the naked eye is called the compressor, and it compresses the incoming air flow during the operation of the aircraft engine.

    Compressor blades direct the oncoming flow, allowing it to compress as smoothly as possible. This is necessary so that there are no unnecessary and destructive pressure surges in the compressor inlet channel, and the engine itself provides minimal drag. It is for these purposes that the blades are given a complex, curved shape that maximally repeats the direction of the oncoming flow, which is forced to pass inside the aircraft engine along a complex, contracting spiral.

    To ensure that this spiral and, as a result, the air path in the compressor is as long as possible, and the pressure increase is gradual, the compressor is made multi-stage, lining up the blades in a dozen successive rows. Therefore, if we cut a turbojet or turbofan engine, inside it we will see basically two main blocks - a compressor and a turbine, between which there is a compact combustion chamber.

    In the combustion chamber, compressed and heated air is mixed with aviation kerosene - and the fuel is burned. The air heats up sharply, after which it enters the second bladed unit - the turbine. At the turbine, part of the energy of the jet stream is taken away, also with blades. This energy allows the compressor to rotate, providing compression of new portions of air.

    Most of the energy in the heated air escapes the engine, creating jet thrust that propels the aircraft forward. The turbine of an aircraft engine is also made multi-stage, and the blades in it, again, have a complex curvilinear shape in order to ensure the most smooth expansion of the jet stream.

    During their operation, the blades of the compressor and turbine experience strong and multidirectional mechanical effects: centrifugal forces, resistance to the oncoming air flow. In addition, the turbine blades operate at high temperatures - the jet stream at the first stages of the turbine has a temperature of more than 1000 ºС. Therefore, for the manufacture of blades, a reliable, lightweight and heat-resistant material is needed.

    As a result, the blade of a gas turbine engine is one of the most complex and science-intensive in the design and manufacture of aircraft engine parts. In its production, rare metals and unique alloys are used, as well as composite materials that guarantee the lightness and strength of the workpiece.

    The aluminum that makes up the body of the aircraft is of little use for blades, and heat-resistant steel is still too heavy. The ideal material for the blade is titanium - a light, durable and heat-resistant metal. Even a composite can be made from titanium: for this, a two-phase version of titanium can be created in an ingot, where one of the phases will be responsible for the strength and hardness of the outer, surface layer of the blade, and the inner part, with another phase, will provide the overall flexibility of the part.

    However, titanium processing has its own peculiarities. Since the blade has a complex curvilinear shape, it is very expensive to manufacture it by machining. After all, if it is machined from a solid workpiece, then the consumption of material and tools will simply be unacceptable. It is not so easy to use welding - titanium is a capricious material in welding operations, and any welding seam in such a critical part as a blade will be a weak point.

    As a result, stamping has become the most economical and high-quality technology for manufacturing compressor and aircraft engine turbine blades in the world, when the blade profile is obtained by plastic deformation of the original workpiece. In this embodiment, machining is minimal and serves only to give the finished product precise contours, mainly created as a result of stamping. There are no welds either - the blade is a monolith obtained from a single workpiece.

    Stamping of titanium products is an extremely difficult technological operation. Many titanium alloys have a very narrow "temperature window" for efficient stamping. Heated the part above the norm - the properties of the titanium composite will be lost, submitted it to the press too cold - stamping will introduce mechanical damage and ruptures into the metal structure. In addition, the selected technology of controlled bending of the billet into the finished blade makes it possible to make stamping as "softly" as possible, leaving all the advantages of a two-phase titanium composite in the finished blade.

    Therefore, the development in Russia of the technology of high-precision forging of titanium blades is not just a small technological “improvement”, but also a whole layer of scientific, design and production research, which made it possible to create an innovative technical process for the most critical and important part of any aircraft engine.

    The described technologies will now be used by the Rostec United Engine Corporation in the development and production of the PD-8 civil aircraft engine line for the Sukhoi Superjet SSJ-NEW aircraft, in the PD-14 engine for the MS-21 medium-haul airliner, and in a new development - the PD- 35 for advanced wide-body long-haul aircraft.

    Thus, existing and prospective Russian aircraft will be able to receive a complete and diverse line of domestic aircraft engines, which will be either on a par with or even higher than the world's best models in terms of their technological level. After all, the use of a titanium-based composite alloy is an absolute step forward in the design of an aircraft engine. It provides a lighter product weight, longer blade life and, as a result, longer overhaul periods and reduced maintenance costs.

    In addition, technological sanctions, which are now used to scare the Russian aviation industry, are becoming useless. Again and again, “Russia does it itself”, showing that a scientific and industrial school lives and develops in our country, working at the very forefront of world scientific and technical thought.

    https://vz.ru/society/2022/4/14/1153500.html

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:58 pm

    Nice article but forget titanium blades in a high pressure turbine. You cannot use lightweight materials there.
    The HP (high pressure) turbine blades are made of Nickel superalloys, which specific weight is a bit higher than steel.
    Many engine companies have their own superalloys, with particular characteristics (e.g. you need different alloys for the blades and the discs and they have also different internal structures).

    What could be done is using an intermetallic alloy like titanium alluminide (Ti-Al) for low pressure (LP) turbine blades.
    Ti-Al does not behave like a metal, but has some characteristics more similar to a ceramic, and for these reasons it cannot be used in the front part of the engine (e.g. in the compressor) as it is relatively brittle and with lower impact resistance than a metal.

    GE already introduced this material for the LP turbine blades of some of its engines, and many companies are doing the same (I believe also Russia was doing studies on the topics).

    The specific weight of this material is less than half than a nickel superalloy. In addition, since the blades are lighter, also the discs in the LP turbine will be smaller and lighter.
    (Note: the LP turbine discs will be still done of the same material as before (nickel superalloy))

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    GarryB
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:06 pm

    You didn't explain why light blades are not good in the high pressure section of an engine.

    I would think light blades would always be good as long as they are strong and resist high temperatures, which these new blades seem to be capable of doing... lack of wielding seems improves their strength and the materials they are made of give good heat resistance so they don't deform as they heat up.

    If Russia can put light blades throughout their engines that would save weight and should improve performance too... light but strong blades on any fan are good because weight for weight a lighter blade will spin up faster and sustain higher speeds with less energy etc etc.

    Obviously if they are lighter because they are thinner and weaker or made of unsuitable materials then being lighter is not better at all, but if they work and are lighter then I would think that would be a good thing... especially as they sound like they are also cheaper and easier to make.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:22 pm

    Titanium cannot withstand high temperatures. And Aluminium even less. At high temperatures even plain Steel is better in terms of strength to weight.
    After a certain temperature aluminium just melts down. And titanium will deform. While steel will still retain some amount of stiffness.
    In the hot temperature sections of engines what you want is some kind of steel alloy with high nickel content, ceramics (like silicon carbide), or carbon-carbon.
    Each one has trade offs. Just like he said. Ceramics are brittle. And nickel steel superalloys are heavier but not as brittle.

    High pressure sections will have high temperature.
    And low pressure sections will have lower temperature.

    As with any heat engine, the higher the temperature differential between the hot and cold sections the more efficient the engine will be.
    So you want the hot section to run as hot as possible. While still remaining reliable enough.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:21 pm

    So why is it used in the hot parts of fast planes like SR-71 and MiG-31?

    The so called hot parts inside modern engines are often described as being titanium... the French company Saffron that made engines that Russia bought for different aircraft made an offer to Russia that if they kept using French engines that they would get their titanium hot parts for all their engines from Russia...

    Russia decided to make its own engines to replace the french engines in the PD engine family instead... I would say just as well.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:47 pm

    I saw that too. But perhaps in that case we are not talking about the same pieces i.e. turbine blades. We are probably talking instead about the casing around the hot section. That should be operating at lower temperatures. The SR-71 AFAIK used titanium in the skin around the airframe. But that is only because it operated at low enough speeds. i.e. Mach 3. Titanium was still viable in that application. And between using something that would melt (i.e. aluminium) and something that would be too heavy (i.e. steel) they went for titanium.

    The core of a jet engine is much hotter than skin friction at Mach 3.

    BTW this is the company you were talking about:
    https://www.precast.com/operations/pcc-investment-cast-products/
    https://www.pccairfoils.com/about.html

    The talk was about titanium investment castings if I remember correctly. Not airfoils.

    See this chart. I think it helps visualize the difference in strength between aluminium, titanium, stainless steel, and nickel superalloys.
    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Alumin10

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:14 pm

    Not convinced.

    They used steel on the MiG-25 and less steel on the MiG-31 but titanium on the hot parts... edges where friction was highest.

    Plus that chart is titanium and steel... would they be the same numbers with alloys?

    Recently Russia talked about new alloys of aluminium that retained strength at high temperatures... I would think if they can do that with aluminium then it would be easier with titanium alloys.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:33 pm

    It is not ordinary steel. It is stainless steel so it has chromium and nickel in it.
    And inconel is a nickel superalloy. Mostly nickel.
    Inconel is the kind of material you use to make jet engine turbine blades.

    For reference airframe skin friction temperature at Mach 3 is 1200 °F. Look at that section in chart above.
    Aluminium would have lost its strength at around 500 °F if you look at its curve. So you can't even think of using it on the skin.

    Problem with superalloys is cost and weight.
    From what I understand the MiG-25 used stainless steel, or nickel plated steel, or something like that for cost reasons.

    Problem with chart below is this is tensile strength at room temperature. So it doesn't show you how the material loses stiffness with temperature as the chart I posted before. But shows cost differential in materials.

    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Cw10

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:So why is it used in the hot parts of fast planes like SR-71 and MiG-31?

    The so called hot parts inside modern engines are often described as being titanium... the French company Saffron that made engines that Russia bought for different aircraft made an offer to Russia that if they kept using French engines that they would get their titanium hot parts for all their engines from Russia...

    Russia decided to make its own engines to replace the french engines in the PD engine family instead... I would say just as well.
    the air entry temperature of a high pressure turbine of a modern jet engine is above 1400 degree Celsius. In some cases is even above the fusion temperature of the blade or vane metal, but they can withstand it thanks to ceramic coating and active cooling with colder (but often still above 600 C) HP compressor air.

    Aluminium could not be used even in the (colder) early parts of the compressor because it lacks physical strength even at low temperatures.
    Steels, titanium and nickel alloys are much stronger than it.
    Steel is not anymore used for discs or blades. Titanium is used until the temperature allows it and nickel superalloys are used after the temperature reaches a certain margin.  
    (Usually you can use a "cheaper" and less capable nickel superalloy in the Low pressure turbine as the temperatures are not so extreme as in the High pressure turbine).

    Normally you can use titanium until the end of the compressor, but some large civil engines have the last stages of the compressor in nickel superalloys because of the temperature.

    Garry, the alluminium "alloys" mentioned are the same titanium alluminide (Ti-Al) compound I wrote about in my posts. They are not a metal alloy.  They maintain good strength also at temperature around  (or slightly above) 600 Celsius, but they cannot be used for discs as they lack other necessary characteristics. Furthermore they are quite brittle (not as much as pure ceramics, but much more than metal). They can be used only in the low pressure turbine for blades and vanes. The temperature in the high pressure turbine is too high for this material and the blades and vanes in the compressor have also to tollerate eventual foreign objects impacts.

    Aluminium is a nice material for an aircraft, but not for an engine.

    By the way, now several engine producers are switching to composites for the fan blades (instead of titanium), as the temperature is low there and the composites are lighter.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:10 pm

    From what I understand the MiG-25 used stainless steel, or nickel plated steel, or something like that for cost reasons.

    Cost reasons was a big myth... at the time they were making entire submarines out of titanium so it wasn't anything to do with cost.

    More likely stainless steel got the job done... it was heavier... but not an enormous amount heavier, and it was much easier to work with.

    Aluminium would have lost its strength at around 500 °F if you look at its curve. So you can't even think of using it on the skin.

    There are lots of areas on an aircraft that are not subject to high temperatures from friction...

    Problem with chart below is this is tensile strength at room temperature. So it doesn't show you how the material loses stiffness with temperature as the chart I posted before. But shows cost differential in materials.

    Does it take into account the massive increase in volume production of carbon materials in Russia, which should lower the price considerably over time.

    Aluminium is a nice material for an aircraft, but not for an engine.

    I understand aluminium is not used in the hot sections of jet engines and that the new heat resistant aluminiums would be used for external parts of high speed aircraft and weapons rather than inside engines, but my understanding was that titanium was used in the very hottest parts of engines... seems not to be the case... no big deal.
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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Cobalt is a big deal now too

    Post  Gazputin Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:08 pm

    as efficiency seems closely related to how hot you can run your engine core these days ....
    now jet engine manufacturers are competing with battery makers for cobalt it seems

    https://dev2u.net/2021/06/03/chapter-12-superalloys-for-gas-turbine-engines-introduction-to-aerospace-materials/

    that is a massive article .... but Cobalt starts at 12.5

    talking of "heat resistant" hot cores ...
    I have a piece of a small "iron" meteorite on my bookshelf that has been cut through in section

    it is essentially a lump of stainless steel .... it never "rusts"
    it is iron and nickel ... guy who sold it to me had it analysed .....
    is there cobalt in it ? highly likely it would seem
    everything else got ionised apparently

    drifting off topic a bit .... re mineral deposits and competition
    makes you realise all those idiots that think dumping fossil fuels will solve everything
    nope .... where is all the copper, cobalt etc going to come from for electric cars by the billions ?

    what most people don't seem to grasp is that over the last century
    humans have been digging up all the "easy to get to deposits"
    then ..... without new technology .... the cost of all materials will skyrocket due to much higher extraction costs
    to get to the "not so easy" deposits .... left over
    meanwhile the population is growing exponentially ..... oops

    eg
    take a look at what the French have done (mining nickel) to New Caledonia .... they have nearly dug a hole right through the island
    call me a cynic .... but
    recently they offered the locals a chance to vote for "independence"
    I suspect it has a lot more to do with the "easy to get to ore" already having been extracted .....

    bit more on/off topic stuff ..... but its at least about metals
    Russia just cranked up an old "oxygen-free" pure copper vacuum smelting operation ....

    Goodbye imports: After many years of inactivity, the production of ultra-pure copper for electronics has been restarted in Russia

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/sdelanounas.ru/import-proscai-posle-mnogih-let-prostoia-v-rossii-vnov-zapusceno-proizvodstvo-sverhchistoi-medi-dlia-elektroniki-6259479e84aebe77d9cb4f5b?&

    .... the place was sitting idle but preserved by some sane people ....









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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:59 pm

    It is funny how certani things get attention while others don't.

    For a fraction of what the US and the whole west spends on "defence" they could have solved problems like food supply and distribution to everyone.

    The fossil fuel stuff is amusing because of climate change... climate has never been stable... from very warm periods when the dinosaurs were around to various ice ages when the temperature was lower and ice sheets covered most of northern europe and northern america.

    Funny if we stop the planet from heating up and end up with an ice age that kills most of us anyway.

    We talk about the 1% in the west who start wars... they don't do it for fun, but their maps are different from ours.

    Their maps don't show religion or people, they show resources... valuable materials of all types from oil and gas to all sorts of metals and materials.

    There are fields in europe of electric cars that are now useless... their batteries are shot because they have been used every day for 5 years or ten years, but the kicker is that the cost of replacing the battery with a new one is more than the price of a new electric car so no body wants a second hand electric car.

    Problem is there is funding and subsidies from the government to buy electric cars but no money has been spent to deal with the old batteries.

    Increased costs of components will make recovering materials and recycling cost effective but everything is going to cost more because the resources are finite.

    This nuclear powered tug the Russians are developing is interesting... imagine it stumbles on an asteroid made of solid cobolt or other exotic metal... towing it back to earth... not feasable with a chemical rocket but with nuclear propulsion...

    Problem is everyone has a warped sense of what an asteroid field looks like... the ones you see in movies or even documentaries are BS... if it looks like the debris field of a recently exploded planet then it would collapse back in upon itself under gravity and the planet would reform relatively quickly.

    A real asteroid field is enormous... it is more space than rock and the distance between relatively big bits would be enormous.

    Back on topic of course one way to reduce the requirement for temperature resistance would be magnetic containment like they do in fusion reactor prototypes that use magnetic fields to keep the plasma off the walls of the container.

    In a jet engine perhaps the airflow could be controlled by superheating the air at the intake and then controlling the plasma flow with magnetic forces instead of physically with aerodynamic forces...

    I guess my mistake was a misinterpretation of hot... for someone designing aircraft fuselage and wing parts hot means something different from an engine designer taking about hot parts.

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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty a universal power unit for gas pumping turbines

    Post  Gazputin Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:46 pm

    this is more significant than it looks
    most gas turbines used by Gazprom are made at Perm
    PS-90 based

    given the insane production increases coming Perm's way re PS-90s for aviation
    and PD-14 .... and cores for PD-8s ? too

    a ... "unified gas pumping unit UGPA-16 (25)"

    "The attention of the exhibition participants was attracted by the layout of the unified gas pumping unit UGPA-16 (25), which is a joint development of JSC "UEC" and PJSC "Gazprom". "

    "The design of the unit allows to use as a power drive industrial turbines of the AL, PS and NK series,
    produced by the corporation's enterprises, in the power range of 16-25 MW. The use of unified solutions allows the customer to significantly reduce the design time of gas transmission infrastructure facilities and reduce construction costs."

    gas turbines are now inter changeable .... can use AL, PS, or NK gas turbines
    taking heat off Perm (pardon the pun)

    even more interesting Saturn is apparently converting Al-31s from ex-fighters to domestic turbines

    anyway very interesting in that the RUAF wants to whack Al-41s in its Su-30s .... then Su-34s
    so lots of Al-31s will be available ...

    meanwhile Perm has said PS-90 derivatives will be in production for at least another 15 years ...


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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty Re: U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

    Post  lancelot Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:46 pm

    16 MW is the power of some of the higher end PS-90 engines.
    25 MW is the power of the engine in the Tu-160 or the An-124 for that matter.

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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty thought the same thing

    Post  Gazputin Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:40 pm

    Kuznetsov

    NK-36ST. (25 MW) Derivative of NK-32 turbofan. Development tests conducted in 1990.

    they are doing a gas turbine train for the Arctic - same engine except tuned to run on LNG
    NK-361 based on the NK-32 of the Tu-160

    so this train is really just a mobile powerplant isn't it ..... that runs on LNG

    RUSSIAN Railways’ (RZD) GT1h-002 prototype liquefied natural gas (LNG) fuelled turbine-electric locomotive has completed a series of test runs on the Surgut - Korotchaevo line in western Siberia hauling trains with a gross weight of up to 9000 tonnes.

    The newest Russian gas turbine-electric locomotive with NK-361 engine set off on its maiden trip at the beginning of July 2008. For the time, it was acknowledged as the most powerful locomotive in the world that uses LNG – that is 8.3 MW, a feat that found mention in the Guinness Book of Records. This locomotive can accelerate to a speed of up to 100 kilometres per hour and cover 750 km on a full tank of fuel. It operates very well in mountain regions. In four years, it created several world records in the carrying capacity of the train it hauled. For example, last autumn it pulled a train weighing 16,000 tonnes (170 carriages) which stretched nearly up to 3 kilometres along the ring railroad of the Railway Research Institute (VNIIZhT).

    insane tech base Russia has .... they never cease to amaze me



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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:13 pm

    I was kinda hoping they might use the old Al-31 engines for fighter support drones that need high performance like a fighter but you don't want to make expensive by putting brand new state of the art expensive engines into them.

    I am assuming for gas transfer in a gas pipeline they wont keep the after burner section on the engines, so their might be a few of those lying around the place.

    It would mean that the AB sections could be set aside to replace those used in engines used on fighters as they get worn out over time.

    The commonality of having related engines in drones and fighters might be useful on the front line, but if they have longer term uses for them for pumping gas then maybe that might be more useful.

    Certainly replacing the NK-25 engines with the new NK-32s and other upgrades for the Tu-160 and Tu-22M3Ms would get rid of an odd engine type that could be used to distribute gas in pipelines where the unification of engine types amongst the two large Tupolevs can only be a good thing.

    With the retirement of Tu-22M3s and the 60 odd being upgraded to Tu-22M3Ms suggests quite a few NK-25s will be freed up for various purposes and it was and is a very good engine with 25 tons thrust at full AB power and rather decent fuel economy too.

    Further down the line the PD-35 being developed based on the NK-32 for subsonic type like the PAK DA and the heavy transport planes, they were talking about expanding its power up to 50 tons, which would be eye watering levels of power (PD-50).

    Ironically for propulsion systems in military ships it would probably make more sense to have several GTs so you can scale power and therefore fuel consumption to the levels required... ie only having one GT would mean it would be enormous and very powerful but also likely use a lot of fuel even in the idle, whereas having 4 or 6 smaller GTs then you can just have running the number you need to meet your requirements for power at that time and if you need more power then start more up.

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    U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines - Page 11 Empty PERM manufacturing

    Post  Gazputin Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:35 pm

    Its a pretty good idea to me to recycle combat engines back to civilian life ...
    military makes a nice 2nd-hand sale to Gazprom .... frees up money for more new Al-41s

    came across this re PERM .... they planned to have triple the volume by 2020 ... triple
    but the local govt switched areas to build the new plant
    so I guess its still a plan to triple volume but at a different site and delayed by 2-3 years

    "The production capacity of the enterprise "UEC-Perm Motors" is planned to be transferred to the territory of the future special economic zone (SEZ) "Osentsy". This was announced on Tuesday by TASS Governor of the Perm Territory Dmitry Makhonin during a meeting with editors of regional media on Tuesday. Earlier it was planned that the plant's capacity as part of the Greenfield project would be transferred to the former tank range.

    Within the framework of the Greenfield project, it was planned to build new production facilities of UEC-Perm Motors by 2020
    and triple the production volumes of the enterprise.

    UEC-PM would become the anchor tenant of this park and invest about 40 billion rubles in its creation"

    40bil what's that around $400mil ? ....
    busy boys over there in the future

    I'm actually pretty confident the aircraft industry will get through all this ....
    there are serious technical resources all over Russia



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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:08 am

    https://aviation21.ru/v-permi-predlozhili-vernutsya-k-proektu-stroitelstva-novoj-ploshhadki-dlya-odk-pm/

    In Perm, they proposed to return to the project for the construction of a new site for UEC-PM

    27.04.2022, 14:38  

    The Governor of the Perm Territory, Dmitry Makhonin, proposed to build a new plant for the production of aircraft engines on the territory of the industrial park "Osentsy". This is reported by "Kommersant Perm".
    Previously, a new engine-building plant was planned to be located in the Eastern Bypass area, but then the UEC abandoned this project. Now the new production can be located on the territory of the industrial park "Osentsy". Kommersant's interlocutors believe that due to the sharp increase in demand for domestic aircraft engines, it is faster to build a new site than to upgrade an existing one.

    “If Rostec or the state does not invest in the construction of a new aircraft engine plant, in three years we will cover only half of the needs of the aviation and oil and gas industries,” the head of the region cites the publication.

    According to Dmitry Makhonin, the regional authorities estimate the cost of building the enterprise at about 85 billion rubles. He is convinced that the new plant is necessary to ensure aviation security. The governor noted that Russian engine builders are faced with the task of mastering the production of PD-8 engines, increasing the production of PD-14, the subject of PS-90 is returning for the construction of Tu-204 aircraft, and also in the future - PD-35.

    The plant can become the second production site of UEC-Perm Motors JSC, which manufactures PS-90 and PD-14 aircraft engines, and should also become a serial manufacturer of PD-35.

    In December 2021, the General Director of the United Engine Corporation Alexander Artyukhov, during a meeting with the participation of the head of the Cabinet of Ministers Mikhail Mishustin, said that as part of the R&D stage, the creation of small-scale production of PD-14 engines in the amount of up to 10 units per year was ensured. According to him, the current stage of the program requires a decision to be made to determine the source of funding for production to reach a capacity of 50 engines per year and the organization of a start-up after-sales service system.

    “This serialization will allow us to ensure the volume of deliveries due to the current preliminary agreements with the Irkut company and Aeroflot and Red Wings airlines. I note that this scenario, at the moment of reaching the target serial production, provides domestic power plants with only 30% of the planned production of MS-21, ”added Alexander Artyukhov.

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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:42 am

    As difficult as the situation with aircraft turbine engines is, at least there is a viable and funded roadmap and existing production for a lot of articles. I still remain skeptical about when we will see all those helicopter engine designs in service however. They dragged it out for years and only the situation in Ukraine got the government and the industry out of its slumber.

    But the main issue, to me, seems to be the small aircraft engines. The piston kind. Or even turboprops.

    They need to massively expand production and these facilities will be needed. That much is certain. So this is a challenge but also an opportunity for the Russian aviation industry. The situation with the tools import restrictions will make things more difficult though I think. They will have to source a lot of the tools from China or make them themselves. Alternative "creative" ways to source the tools from the West will be problematic in the long run I think.

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    Post  kvs Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:53 am

    In the US every state has lobbied for MIC infrastructure. A similar process must be happening in Russia to some degree. The reality
    of democratic political pandering. The tone of the pronouncements in the above article has a hysterical slant and is not necessarily
    "all is lost for Russia".

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