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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:33 pm

    When you run out of money, guess you start stealing metals.
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:53 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How do you predict next 5-10 years in Ukraine?

    Already 2 mln Ukrainians have moved to Russia, 1 mln to Poland, over 100k to Czechia and Slovakia and on the top the birth rate is catastrophically low.

    That crisis is only going to worse in upcoming years. Soon there may be no young people left.




    In Poland around two million, and some even estimate it at 3.5 million.

    That is not including the ethnic Ukrainians with Polish citizenship.


    Poland recently gave Ukraine for free 70% of its natural gas reserves, and ordinary Poles are footing the bill.

    There might be some turmoil taking place in Poland soon, as the prices keep on rising, but people are as poor as before, all in the name of funding Ukraine, which itself is hostile to ethnic Poles and Poland.

    It is too bad Putin is in charge in Russia, a more able head of state would have taken advantage of this growing discontent in Poland.


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    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:03 pm

    [quote="Odin of Ossetia"]
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
    It is too bad Putin is in charge in Russia, a more able head of state would have taken advantage of this growing discontent in Poland.


    A more able, better funded FSB with freer reigns.

    Agree with Mike more or less on future prospects. Garry's into wishful thinking about someone reasonable coming to power that could at least attempt to mend fences and tilt towads Russia.... that's a pipedream. Americans won't allow it unless there is a bloody break up and hell will break loose if that were to happen. There are literally no conditions for such a character (and the accompanying cast that he will need to oppose the crazies) to appear. Both the Americans and their sluts in Kiev have made sure of that. Ukraine continues to walk in a zombiefied state and since insurrection from within, that is, the type of insurrection that purges these loons and this nazi movement is out of the picture at the heart of Kiev, insurrection must come from outside Kiev, and as always, with big power backing (Russia) if it's gonna succeed against the U.S and its snakes in Kiev. The power disputes between the sluts will not change the American control and direction of Kiev......call it elections or whatever....
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    Post  VARGR198 Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:46 pm

    As relations quickly sour between Ukraine and Hungary, Hungary has expelled Ukraines diplomatic with 72 hours for him to leave the country.
    https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status/1047846469234040833

    Since Ukraine inacted the law forbidding non-Ukrainian languages last year Hungary started given ethnic Hungarians in Transcarpatha Hungarian passports. Ukraine has responded with sending military units to the Hungarian border.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:50 pm

    Polish-Russian relations were improving for several years, two things disrupted the process:

    1. Crash of presidential aircraft in Smolensk in 2010 (which many right wing Poles believe to be a Russian attack)

    2. Victory of right wing fiercely Rusophobic Law and Justice party in 2015 elections. It won a crushing victory by rallying disgruntled lower classes around itself by promosing social welfare benefits. Ironically this party is also a big friend and ally of Viktor Orban.
    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:21 am

    More of the Ukraine-Hungary situation
    http://www.stalkerzone.org/aleksey-yakubin-ukraine-deliberately-chose-the-scenario-of-damaging-relations-with-hungary/
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:06 am

    It is too bad Putin is in charge in Russia, a more able head of state would have taken advantage of this growing discontent in Poland.

    Russia is more independent and powerful than it has been in decades... in fact ever before.

    Good relations with Poland would be nice... good relations with the Ukraine would be nice too, but if they don't want it Russia shouldn't try to make them... Russia can just keep selling them gas and taking their money and look elsewhere for countries to trade other goods with and to foster good relations with.

    Europe is rejecting Russia... there is no reason for Russia to beg to sell stuff to them and to in return buy their stuff... there are plenty of other countries on this planet that just want fair trade and for those they trade with to NOT interfere in their culture, their politics, and their economy.

    Russia would do well to avoid copying the antics of the countries that despise them...

    A more able, better funded FSB with freer reigns.

    Yeah... that is what the world needs... another CIA... Rolling Eyes that would make things all better...

    Garry's into wishful thinking about someone reasonable coming to power that could at least attempt to mend fences and tilt towads Russia.... that's a pipedream.

    It is not really a hope... the Ukraine is fucked up, so whomever they end up getting into bed with will have to pay for the therapy and it is not going to be pretty...

    And I doubt that the help will even be appreciated by most.

    Americans won't allow it unless there is a bloody break up and hell will break loose if that were to happen. There are literally no conditions for such a character (and the accompanying cast that he will need to oppose the crazies) to appear. Both the Americans and their sluts in Kiev have made sure of that. Ukraine continues to walk in a zombiefied state and since insurrection from within, that is, the type of insurrection that purges these loons and this nazi movement is out of the picture at the heart of Kiev, insurrection must come from outside Kiev, and as always, with big power backing (Russia) if it's gonna succeed against the U.S and its snakes in Kiev. The power disputes between the sluts will not change the American control and direction of Kiev......call it elections or whatever....

    Yeah... but the thing is that if the Americans actually win... what they will end up with is half a country that is totally disfunctional and totally reliant on them to fix.

    Looking at the recent record of the second chechen war, 8 8 8, syria, and the crimea, the Russians seem to know what they are doing, and I suspect Putin has a backup plan B where independence elections in disputed regions in the Ukraine could be the result despite all the western dominated international organisations in the region claiming this that or the other... it will just mean more sanctions... they might even stop buying cheap Russian gas and start buying expensive American stuff...
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:24 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Polish-Russian relations were improving for several years, two things disrupted the process:

    1. Crash of presidential aircraft in Smolensk in 2010 (which many right wing Poles believe to be a Russian attack)

    2. Victory of right wing fiercely Rusophobic Law and Justice party in 2015 elections. It won a crushing victory by rallying disgruntled lower classes around itself by promosing social welfare benefits. Ironically this party is also a big friend and ally of Viktor Orban.




    The only reason the "Law and Justice" won in 2015 is because people had enough of the brutal and tyrannical German-Ukrainian mafia from the "Civic Platform", so they voted "strategically" for the "Law and Justice" as that was perceived as the only party that could realistically defeat the "Civic Platform."

    And Victor Orban is not really a big friend and ally. It is all a farce. Hungary already showed its true loyalties during the 27:1 vote.

    Most Poles have already enough of the "Law and Justice", it has alienated lots of its own voters by blindly supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainians in Poland, as did the "Civic Platform". Also the recent price increases have also a major alienating impact.

    Both of these parties support Western interests and destroy Poles and Poland, and the ordinary Poles have enough of this.

    Actually the general population in Poland is poorer than the general population of Bulgaria.

    There is probably also the largest gap between the rich and poor in Poland of any European country besides Russia.

    That is the legacy of the end of the Communism (which never existed in Poland in a pure form) in 1989.




    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:38 pm

    Next one
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    Post  VARGR198 Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:17 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Next one

    Seems to be believed that these munitions are being deliberately destroyed to cover up thefts of weapons
    http://www.stalkerzone.org/experts-are-surprised-that-ukrainian-warehouses-still-have-something-to-steal-and-blow-up/

    UAFs BUKs were held in this location during the destruction.
    http://www.stalkerzone.org/buk-missiles-and-their-accompanying-documentation-were-burned-in-the-uaf-warehouse-fire-in-ichnya/

    Article on how Ukraine is pretty much worthless to EU and NATO including its confrontation with Hungary.
    http://www.stalkerzone.org/ukrainian-analyst-aleksandr-lazarev-ukraine-will-not-join-the-eu-since-it-is-needed-by-nobody/

    I realy have been getting the impression lately that Ukraine is moving a lot closer to collapsing with the next 5 years.

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    Post  littlerabbit Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:37 am

    So...how many F-15's had landed, what else they have moved into Ukraine? dunno


    Last edited by littlerabbit on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:40 am

    According to some sources, buk systems and documentation we're destroyed in that weapons Depot fire.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:25 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:According to some sources, buk systems and documentation we're destroyed in that weapons Depot fire.
    Not sure if this is anything to do with the illegal sale of Buks as not sure who would buy them. However.

    Can't possibly be the destruction of any BUK launcher or missiles and associated paperwork that had any potential connection with MH-17 following the Russian submission of Buk evidence to the Dutch, can it?
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:28 pm

    That's what is being insinuated.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:33 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:So...how many F-15's had landed, what else they have moved into Ukraine? dunno

    These are from the US Air National Guard unit in California so they have had a long journey. Usually, as per other trips into Eastern Europe, it is a detachment of 4 x F-15C plus a C-17 (maybe C-130J but I doubt it if the staff come from the same unit) with support staff. This is an air defence exercise hence the F-15C rather than F-15E. Also interesting that the US hasn't used any of the F-15Cs that they already have in Europe.

    Reasonable article on ZH on it today

    Just days ago we noted that the the United States is now treating Ukraine as if it were a NATO member as on September 27th Washington donated to Ukraine two warships for use against Russia. And now in a move that's sure to be seen by Russia as a major and intolerable provocation Ukraine has announced the start of joint military exercises involving NATO countries.

    What's been dubbed the Clear Sky 2018 operation in the west of Ukraine kicked off on Monday and will center on air defense operations in order to "protect the airspace" from Russia. The war games will include the participation of the US military and several other NATO nations, including bordering nations Poland and Romania, as well as Britain and the Netherlands.

    The U.S. Embassy in Ukraine described the event as a "multinational military exercise focusing on promoting peace and security" — however, we highly doubt that it's peace that will be the lasting result of this.

    Some 700 troops are expected to take part, with at least half of them composed of non-Ukrainian NATO member forces, in the operation set to last until October 19.

    The US Air Force will have a heavy advisory role with F-15C Eagle fighter planes and C-130J Super Hercules military transport planes and drones involved in guided training exercises leading about 30 Ukrainian aircraft, according to an official government ministry statement.

    And further according to a Ukrainian air force official Polish and Romanian aircraft will participate for "the first time" in a joint show "to protect the airspace," according to military spokesman Yuriy Ignat said.

    Meanwhile a US Air Force statement said the aim of the exercise is "to enhance regional capabilities to secure air sovereignty and promote peace and security through cooperation."
    "Clear Sky 2018" photo via UNIAN

    The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry was further keen on signalling Russia that Kiev is feeling emboldened to have American military hardware patrolling the skies: "The personnel and the aircrafts of the Ukrainian Air Force were redeployed to the Starokonstantinov airfield. A significant event was the arrival of the F-15 aircrafts of the 144th Fighter Wing of the California Air National Guard," a statement said.

    Since fighting between pro-Russian and pro-Western forces erupted in 2014, over 10,000 Ukrainians have been killed. Kiev officials have since the Russian annexation of Crimea constantly hyped the treat of an imminent Russian military invasion and even suggested the possibility of a World War 3 scenario between the West and Russia centered over Ukrainian territory.

    Though a series of both Russian and NATO exercises have occurred without a serious incident between the rival powers of late, aerial exercises involving NATO planes above Ukraine will be the most contentious show of force yet.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-09/ukraine-begins-large-air-force-exercises-nato-protect-airspace-russia
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:35 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:That's what is being insinuated.
    Thanks. Typical of Kiev's stupid actions, making things that should be very subtle and plausibly deniable, blindingly obvious.
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:37 pm

    The war games end in October. This also isn't first time US sent systems to Ukraine for war games. They will leave after October 18. And the "warships" might as well be river crafts of even less worth than a dingy. Just because they are old and weapons wise, useless.
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:44 pm

    October 19th to be correct.

    Also

    https://southfront.org/dpr-says-buk-missiles-and-their-documentation-were-destroyed-at-warehouse-in-ukraines-ichnya/
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 pm

    Obvously got into a panic about what to change the papers into something that was plausible and when the paper is due they went for... my dog ate my assignment... which is hard to believe because they don't have a dog.

    When you run out of money, guess you start stealing metals.

    I think an accurate analogy would be when you stop eating the body still needs energy so it starts taking it from the bodies vital organs...

    It is what starvation looks like...
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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:04 pm

    Yeah, Porkychenko looks really starved.
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    Post  VARGR198 Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:28 pm

    Starving Ukrainian soldiers stealing food from civilians ("The strongest army in Europe").

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/intrigue-surrounds-the-war-with-starving-ukraine-army-looting-and-pillaging-donbass-locals/
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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:43 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:So...how many F-15's had landed, what else they have moved into Ukraine? dunno

    These are from the US Air National Guard unit in California so they have had a long journey. Usually, as per other trips into Eastern Europe, it is a detachment of 4 x F-15C plus a C-17 (maybe C-130J but I doubt it if the staff come from the same unit) with support staff. This is an air defence exercise hence the F-15C rather than F-15E. Also interesting that the US hasn't used any of the F-15Cs that they already have in Europe.

    Reasonable article on ZH on it today

    Just days ago we noted that the the United States is now treating Ukraine as if it were a NATO member as on September 27th Washington donated to Ukraine two warships for use against Russia. And now in a move that's sure to be seen by Russia as a major and intolerable provocation Ukraine has announced the start of joint military exercises involving NATO countries.

    What's been dubbed the Clear Sky 2018 operation in the west of Ukraine kicked off on Monday and will center on air defense operations in order to "protect the airspace" from Russia. The war games will include the participation of the US military and several other NATO nations, including bordering nations Poland and Romania, as well as Britain and the Netherlands.

    The U.S. Embassy in Ukraine described the event as a "multinational military exercise focusing on promoting peace and security" — however, we highly doubt that it's peace that will be the lasting result of this.

    Some 700 troops are expected to take part, with at least half of them composed of non-Ukrainian NATO member forces, in the operation set to last until October 19.

    The US Air Force will have a heavy advisory role with F-15C Eagle fighter planes and C-130J Super Hercules military transport planes and drones involved in guided training exercises leading about 30 Ukrainian aircraft, according to an official government ministry statement.

    And further according to a Ukrainian air force official Polish and Romanian aircraft will participate for "the first time" in a joint show "to protect the airspace," according to military spokesman Yuriy Ignat said.

    Meanwhile a US Air Force statement said the aim of the exercise is "to enhance regional capabilities to secure air sovereignty and promote peace and security through cooperation."
    "Clear Sky 2018" photo via UNIAN

    The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry was further keen on signalling Russia that Kiev is feeling emboldened to have American military hardware patrolling the skies: "The personnel and the aircrafts of the Ukrainian Air Force were redeployed to the Starokonstantinov airfield. A significant event was the arrival of the F-15 aircrafts of the 144th Fighter Wing of the California Air National Guard," a statement said.

    Since fighting between pro-Russian and pro-Western forces erupted in 2014, over 10,000 Ukrainians have been killed. Kiev officials have since the Russian annexation of Crimea constantly hyped the treat of an imminent Russian military invasion and even suggested the possibility of a World War 3 scenario between the West and Russia centered over Ukrainian territory.

    Though a series of both Russian and NATO exercises have occurred without a serious incident between the rival powers of late, aerial exercises involving NATO planes above Ukraine will be the most contentious show of force yet.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-09/ukraine-begins-large-air-force-exercises-nato-protect-airspace-russia

    Thanks, I found this article, they are talking about 18 F-15C?! and some Israeli F-16's in Ukraine...looks like overkill. unshaven

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/u-s-israel-use-ukraine-to-get-s-300-secrets/
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    Post  ATLASCUB Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:01 am

    NBC report on clear skies.



    Nice photo ops. Porky being the slut that he is at the end in a mini-interview.... You could see a grin from an American strategist every time this puppet opens his mouth.

    BTW how is Ukraine keeping their airforce afloat? Is Russia supplying parts? Does Ukraine have a large inventory of spare parts? Can they or are they manufacturing spare parts?
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    Post  Hole Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:40 am

    Answers:
    tape and good wishes
    No.
    Propably. But a lot has been sold abroad or looted.
    No.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:58 am

    https://russia-insider.com/en/poroshenko-goner-6-months-election-his-approval-rating-16-percent/ri25082

    Poroshenko Is a Goner. 6 Months Before Election His Approval Rating Is 16 Percent
    The approval of his government is even lower at 10.5 percent. The only thing he has going for him is that his competitors (Tymoshenko) aren't much more popular, but that won't be enough

    Is this the least enthusiastically supported sitting government in the world?

    The vast majority of participants of an opinion poll in Ukraine (79.4%) do not approve of the work of the president of Ukraine. Slightly more are dissatisfied with the Cabinet of Ministers (84.1%) and the Verkhovna Rada (88.2%). This is evidenced by the results of the survey conducted from September 27th to October 6th by the “Sofiya” center for sociological research.

    Poroshenko’s work was completely approved by 2.3% of respondents, “mostly approve” – 14%. Mostly don’t approve – 31.3%, do not approve at all – 48.1%, and found it difficult to answer – 4.3%.

    The work of the Verkhovna Rada is completely approved by 0.7% of the participants of the poll, mostly approve – 6.6%, do not approve – 30%, do not approve at all – 58.2%, and found it difficult to answer – 4.5%.

    The work of the Cabinet of Ministers is completely approved by 0.8% of respondents, mostly approve – 9.6%, do not approve – 29%, do not approve at all – 55.1%, and found it difficult to answer – 5.5%.

    The poll involved interviewing 2,001 adult age inhabitants in all regions of Ukraine (in the under control territory). The statistical error of selection does not exceed 2.2%.

    Source: Strana.ua

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