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    Commercial/Private Space Industry Projects: News and Updates

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:45 pm

    It only makes sense Rosatom continue to work with Roscosmos in launching their satellites and other stuff into space rather than trying it their own. Much cheaper. And its just better to use Vostochny rather than this.

    S7 should just forget Sea Launch at this point. Let Musk go bankrupt with Space X after the government handouts and tax exemptions run out.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:15 pm

    The russian military could use it. A flexible launch pad is not bad.

    The communications and command stuff was from the 90´s, it had to be replaced anyway. And the Zenith is gone, too. No great loss.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:11 pm

    Hole wrote:The russian military could use it. A flexible launch pad is not bad.

    The communications and command stuff was from the 90´s, it had to be replaced anyway. And the Zenith is gone, too. No great loss.

    Military wouldn't go anywhere near this thing

    They take their job seriously and unlike Roskosmos they have been demonstrating preference for dignity over the last decade or so

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:33 pm

    So there is the rig and the ship...

    Commercial/Private Space Industry Projects: News and Updates - Page 5 Sealau11
    Commercial/Private Space Industry Projects: News and Updates - Page 5 Sealau10

    I am sure there should be a few things they could use these two platforms for... perhaps a radar platform for the base, and satellite tracking ship for the ship...
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:So there is the rig and the ship...

    Commercial/Private Space Industry Projects: News and Updates - Page 5 Sealau11
    Commercial/Private Space Industry Projects: News and Updates - Page 5 Sealau10

    I am sure there should be a few things they could use these two platforms for... perhaps a radar platform for the base, and satellite tracking ship for the ship...

    Or maybe sell it to North Korea..
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:20 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:The russian military could use it. A flexible launch pad is not bad.

    The communications and command stuff was from the 90´s, it had to be replaced anyway. And the Zenith is gone, too. No great loss.

    Military wouldn't go anywhere near this thing

    They take their job seriously and unlike Roskosmos they have been demonstrating preference for dignity over the last decade or so


    Why? With militay equipment and personel on board there should be no problems.

    Yeah, Roskosmos is so shitty. For the last 20 years they brought more people into space then the rest of the world combined.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:16 pm

    Hole wrote:Why? With militay equipment and personel on board there should be no problems.

    And accomplish what exactly?

    Try (and fail) to some idiot who agreed to this look less dumb?

    Military already has all their launch needs covered and have been doing it competently for a decade now, unlike some others they have managed to absolve themselves, they don't need this misery again  



    Hole wrote:...Yeah, Roskosmos is so shitty. For the last 20 years they brought more people into space then the rest of the world combined.

    Soviet hand-me-downs have been been bringing people to space, Roskosmos is yet to chalk any accomplishment for themselves (other than international panhandling and making idiots of themselves)

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:20 am

    Or maybe sell it to North Korea..

    Perhaps Iran might want to buy it and then pay the Russians to replace all the bits the Americans took out with Russian gear... they could send the platform out into the Persian gulf... fit its lower structure with sonar systems to listen for US military ship traffic... they could use it for their version of Poseidon...

    Why? With militay equipment and personel on board there should be no problems.

    The military really don't have a use for such a launch system. If it could be converted to something else like a mobile sub floating base it might be interesting... I think they would struggle to find a use for it where it has enough value to warrant the chances needed to get it working again.

    Its primary use was commercial satellite launches... so it needs to be cost effective...

    I suspect the Americans are hoping the Russians will spend lots of money to fix it up and get into an operational state and then the US can just impose sanctions on any country whose companies launch payloads via this thing effectively making it a white elephant.

    The thing is that the tesla bubble is going to burst... most of Musks stuff is based on funding from the government and starter funding... when all that disappears because the US is broke then he is going to be in real trouble.

    High tech is high risk... right now I think airlines are in trouble... who would have thought that this time last year?

    Yeah, Roskosmos is so shitty. For the last 20 years they brought more people into space then the rest of the world combined.

    Some times all you actually need to do is get the job done without being flashy... the Russians are good at that.

    Soviet hand-me-downs have been been bringing people to space, Roskosmos is yet to chalk any accomplishment for themselves (other than international panhandling and making idiots of themselves)

    Despite about three economic collapses and lack of any money for rather long periods the Russians have managed to not only continue their own space programme, but also help the US and other countries get to the international space station... and before that they took people to Mir as well.

    BTW the system the Americans had to stop using because it was killing people was a cold war shitty hand-me-down too.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:07 am

    I thought about Nord Korea since the sea launch is already in that area and they already got some help from ukraine with ballistic rockets

    For Russia issue with it apparently is also that the new rocket that should replace the ukrainian one is still a few years away...


    Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I saw this ridiculous picture, claiming that SpaceX deliveries to LEO costs at least 2 and half times less than Soyuz...


    https://amp.reddit.com/r/space/comments/62n47j/cost_per_kg_leo_for_human_spaceflight/
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:52 pm

    Sea Launch to be restored at cost of about $470 mln

    KUBINKA /Moscow Region/, August 24. /TASS/. The floating spaceport Sea Launch, currently based at Russia’s Slavyanka port in the Primorye Territory, will be restored, which will require about 35 billion rubles (roughly $470 million), Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told the media on the sidelines of the Army-2020 forum on Monday.

    "Certainly, the Sea Launch will be restored. I had a discussion with the president on that score. I reported intermediate results achieved by the working group that was set up on my instructions," Borisov said.

    He added that the budget of breathing a new life into the Sea Launch was estimated at about 35 billion rubles ($470 million dollars). It will be commercially successful if at least five launches are made a year.

    "All this is possible," he said.

    "A week ago, I returned from Vladivostok where I had walked about the Sea Launch and the ship that serves as the site for assembling and testing the payload. It is a unique structure unparalleled in the world. Some have plans for building something similar. It would be very silly of us, if we decided against restoring the Sea Launch and using its services. Technically all this is possible."

    Borisov recalled that before the floating spaceport left its port Long Beach, California, the United States in accordance with its laws removed all equipment from the command ship and the floating platform.

    "It’s mostly equipment responsible for positioning, based on GPS technologies. We will be able to replace it with GLONASS solutions. As for the launch system itself, in other words, the equipment needed for bringing the rocket to and placing it at the launch pad and automatically fueling the tanks, all this is done through Russian technologies," Borisov said.

    In June, the CEO of Russia’s space corporation Roscosmos, Dmitry Rogozin, said in his column in Forbes magazine that Russian specialists would have to exert considerable efforts to restore the floating spaceport Sea Launch to operation. He said that before its handover to the company S7 all space launch control equipment was dismantled. At the end of February, a co-owner of S7 and chairman of the company’s board, Vladislav Filyov, told Kommersant in an interview that the Sea Launch project, the command ship and the platform, redeployed to the Far East in March, had been frozen until things got better.

    source

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:18 pm

    That is rather good news. It creates jobs and spurs technological development. It also gives Russia a low latitude launch option for
    Zenit or Soyuz-5 class (RD-170 main stage engine) size rockets which can carry more payload than the Soyuz.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:51 am

    Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I saw this ridiculous picture, claiming that SpaceX deliveries to LEO costs at least 2 and half times less than Soyuz...

    Take away the subsidies and the fact that that cost is based on actually reusing it more than 30 times per rocket when by their own figures they are not reusing them very much at all and you would get very different numbers.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:48 pm


    Apparently that spiel about Boeing sabotaging SeaLaunch was hogwash as expected:

    The military-industrial complex denied the fact of the looting of the Sea launch cosmodrome by the Americans

    https://3dnews.ru/1024768/vpk-oprovergla-fakt-razgrableniya-kosmodroma-morskoy-start-amerikantsami

    Shocker... Rolling Eyes

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:57 am

    The military-industrial complex denied the fact of the looting of the Sea launch cosmodrome by the Americans

    The stuff they took out was theirs and likely would not have been much use to S7, so they saved them from having to remove that gear themselves.

    Replacement with all Russian gear and equipment would be a good start to getting it ready for its new roles with Russian equipment and systems.

    And it is money for Russian companies that will make all the new components they will put into the ship and platform.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:06 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The military-industrial complex denied the fact of the looting of the Sea launch cosmodrome by the Americans

    The stuff they took out was theirs and likely would not have been much use to S7, so they saved them from having to remove that gear themselves.

    Replacement with all Russian gear and equipment would be a good start to getting it ready for its new roles with Russian equipment and systems.

    And it is money for Russian companies that will make all the new components they will put into the ship and platform.

    Sea Launch allows Russian launches from the equator independent of any other country

    It is a strategic, unique asset and should be further invested in

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:30 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The military-industrial complex denied the fact of the looting of the Sea launch cosmodrome by the Americans

    The stuff they took out was theirs and likely would not have been much use to S7, so they saved them from having to remove that gear themselves.

    Replacement with all Russian gear and equipment would be a good start to getting it ready for its new roles with Russian equipment and systems.

    And it is money for Russian companies that will make all the new components they will put into the ship and platform.

    Sea Launch allows Russian launches from the equator independent of any other country

    It is a strategic, unique asset and should be further invested in

    It is a useful and good idea. Italy did something similar in the 60s, with the san Marco program, where a jackup barge provided by the oil company ENI was towed at the equator and used for space launches.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marco_programme

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:12 am

    The main problem is a lack of a suitable rocket and basing site...

    The ship supports the platform but both don't remain at sea 24/7... a base near the equator would be useful and a rocket suitably designed to take advantage of the launch location would also be worth investing in too.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:12 am

    GarryB wrote:The main problem is a lack of a suitable rocket and basing site...

    The ship supports the platform but both don't remain at sea 24/7... a base near the equator would be useful and a rocket suitably designed to take advantage of the launch location would also be worth investing in too.
    for that a base in Gabon or maybe even a little bit south would be quite practical. Ideally next to a logistic point (or even a full fledged base of the Russian navy)
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:24 am

    Port Sudan??? scratch
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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Port Sudan??? scratch

    The region is a pirate zone. So not really all that good for civilian activity.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 am

    I am sure if the Russians are using the port as a support base for ships and subs in the region the local pirates will learn what is easy pickings and what is not.

    I would think they will probably use the base for their anti piracy operations... essentially leave some corvettes or at most some frigates and submarines there and fly crews from Russia to and from that area.

    It means that for instance a corvette on anti piracy patrol could be based there with fresh crews flown from Russia with the previous crew flown back to Russia so the ship or sub remains there and does not need to keep sailing to and from Russia all the time... which would be a week or two where it is not hunting pirates.

    Being able to refresh crews means crews get to fly to Africa... much faster than sailing there, their anti piracy teams that board boats with guns can be rotated in and out to get real experience without needing to waste two weeks there and two weeks transit time to get there and back.

    They spend more time on patrol and doing the job and less time just getting to where they are supposed to be operating.

    For sea launch it means a lot less transit time to the launch position... the same planes that fly crews for ships and subs can fly all the technical people to support the launch operations... make the liquid fuelled rockets  small enough to fit inside an An-124 and they could be flown there too for launches...

    They could make the new rockets hydrogen fuelled cryogenic rockets that get fuelled on the launch platforms making transport cheaper and easier because they are much lighter and safer than a solid rocket would be. Add a component to the launch platform that uses a nuclear power generator to use sea water for the hydrogen and oxygen and also the refrigeration systems to cool it down to liquid form for refuelling so it can be produced in situ... automate it as much as possible.... but have backup ship based fuelling options too...

    They could probably launch a few satellites for nearby African countries too... I would think quite a few countries in the region would be interested in cooperation in that sort of programme....
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:18 am

    The situation in Somalia needs to be stabilized. The pirates are a symptom of failed states.

    There are lots of positive aspects to being based in the tropics, but maybe Russia should get some islands in the Pacific Ocean
    to sign a base agreement.

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:02 am

    NASA hikes prices for commercial ISS users

    source

    WASHINGTON — NASA has sharply increased the prices it charges commercial users of the International Space Station for cargo and other resources, a move that has left some companies confused and frustrated.

    NASA announced Feb. 25 that it was revising the commercial marketing pricing policy it first published in June 2019 as part of a new low Earth orbit commercialization strategy. That policy, which set aside a fraction of station resources for commercial applications beyond research and development, included a price list for resources such as cargo to and from the station and crew time to carry out work.

    In the statement, published with little fanfare on the agency’s website, NASA said it was updating that price list “to reflect full reimbursement for the value of NASA resources.” The decision to do so, NASA said, was based on “discussions with stakeholders, the current market growth, and in anticipation of future commercial entities capable of providing similar services.”

    By removing the subsidy, the prices of those services went up significantly. The cost to transport one kilogram of cargo up to the station, known as “upmass,” went from $3,000 to $20,000. The cost to bring that one kilogram back down from the station, “downmass,” went from $6,000 to $40,000. One hour of crew member time, previously $17,500, is now $130,000.

    LOL!! So much for commercial space.  Private operators and their lobbyists in Government are being bitchy little whiners because NASA is no longer willing to massively subsidise their operations?  Unhappy that NASA bean counters want to recover costs so that their tax-payer funded operating budget isn't depleted due to outrageous give-aways to the private sector?  Hahah!! Thats just tough shit I'm afraid!! To hell with these for-profit parasites and their exageratted senses of entitlement!! Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    If they don't like it, let them shell out 10s of billions of USD monoply script and build their own orbital base.  The reality is that without gubbermint largesse and a huge pot of the publics money there is no private man-in-space "industry".  

    I approve whole-heartedly.  NASAs budget from the pockets of US citizens should be for scientific purposes such as space science, astronomy and planetary exploration, not running a frigging orbital hotel at a loss so that earthly capitalists can swan in and out as they choose while looking for the next big self-enrichment scam. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:55 am

    Now we see the real prices for transport to and from space. Reality has a habit of asserting itself sooner or later.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:28 am

    Great news for Russia. Roskosmos is much cheaper. Some western companies will come back to launch their stuff with russian rockets.

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