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    Russian Tanks ERA and APS

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    Mindstorm

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    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:27 pm



    First info coming slowly about the new kind of dynamic protection, today named named "Монолит", to which i had refered several times, based on new working mechanism, for heavy family of armoured vehicles class "Армата" that will be integrated in serial production (in place of the interim "Малахите") and based on the breakthrough in what the renowed "НИИ Стали" has named energy materials.


    [url=http://www.niistali.ru/upload/iblock/e29/90th anniversary of GABTU-7.pdf]http://www.niistali.ru/upload/iblock/e29/90th anniversary of GABTU-7.pdf[/url]

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    Post  Begome on Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:31 pm

    Fixed link

    Some interesting tid bits are:
    - these "energetic materials" work on the principle of "local dispensation of energy in a narrow area"...whatever that means, but the text's description sounds like they don't replace composite and reactive armor but will be used additionally
    - the Bumerang vehicle is apparently the first to receive a new kind of defence system against top attack munitions, which is based on "new physical principles" and doesn't work with projectiles or explosives and thus is safe for surrounding infantry
    - the Kurganets will also get that system and apparently uses not just ceramics in its composite armor but also aluminum (could explain why it's so light)
    - the T-14 uses "ultra-high-strength steel 44S-SV-Sh" that was newly developed
    - the Bumerang is listed as employing some stealth technologies, while no such mention is made for the Kurganets

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:20 am

    - these "energetic materials" work on the principle of "local dispensation of energy in a narrow area"...whatever that means, but the text's description sounds like they don't replace composite and reactive armor but will be used additionally

    Would suspect it means that a brick that is hit in its lower corner will localise the energy and distortion to damage the incoming projectile to the point where a follow up shot that hits the top corner of the same brick that part of the brick will localise the energy and distortion to act on that projectile... rather than the first projectile effectively using up the projectile stopping properties of the whole brick with the first impact.

    When old HE filled bricks were used up with being hit because the entire brick was activated and the effect was not localised to the impact point and the impact penetrator.

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    Post  Begome on Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am

    Yeah after reading some other sources it seems that we're talking about some kind of "plasmadynamic armor", where a big electric charge is flowing through the penetrator (APFSDS) or jet (HEAT) as they penetrate, reaching very high temperatures (tens of thousands of Kelvin) and thus, in the case of APFSDS, melting the penetrator, which makes it easier to deform, and, in the case of both, the large moving charge's magnetic field will help distort the penetrator or jet and thus greatly reduce their penetration depth. I'm not sure that any actual explosive is involved in this new "Monolit" armor anymore...unlike the Malachit, which can still be found on the Kurganets, as per the document, and is "simply" an improvement over Relikt ERA with twice the efficacy.

    Does anyone have more info on what this new anti-top-attack system "based on new physical principles" and "not using projectiles or explosives" is supposed to be? It is definitely distinct from Monolit, as per the document. It's also weird that the document doesn't say that the T-14 will get it...I guess it means that Monolit will be applied to the top of T-14 as well and they think that will be enough.

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    Russian Tanks ERA and APS - Page 9 Empty T-90M in the course of further modernization will receive the complex of active protection "Arena-M".

    Post  lyle6 on Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:23 pm

    The sides of the tank hull will be strengthened with a hinged dynamic protection in rigid containers.
    MOSCOW, September 28. /TASS/. The T-90M tank in the course of further modernization is proposed to be equipped with the advanced active protection complex "Arena-M", as follows from the materials of the 38th Scientific Research Testing Institute of Armored Armored Weapons and Equipment (NII BTWT) of the Russian Ministry of Defense, available to TASS.
    The specialists of the Research Institute believe that for the period till 2025 the upgraded T-72B3M, T-80BVM and T-90M will retain the parity with the main battle tanks of foreign countries by their capabilities and efficiency. After 2025, it will be necessary to continue upgrading the Russian tanks.
    "As part of further work to improve the T-90M tank's protection, it is proposed to equip the tank with the Arena-M active protection system. In the front part of the hull, instead of the dynamic protection system currently being installed, the tank must be dynamically protected by the Armata T-14," the Institute's materials say.
    In addition, the sides of the hull will be strengthened with hinged dynamic protection in rigid containers. Electromagnetic protection systems and anti-tank guidance system countermeasures complex similar to that on the T-14 tank, as well as automatic fire-fighting system with multiple action with autonomous power supply and "Lesochek" type interference generator to combat radio-controlled mines and explosive devices are designed to increase tank survivability.
    The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank is a deep upgrade version of the T-90 tank. The vehicle has a brand new turret, which differs from the serial one, and a more powerful engine. The "Breakthrough" is equipped with a new multichannel sight, which ensures the use of weapons at any time of the day. In addition, the ability to exchange data in real time with other vehicles has become one of the main features of the upgraded tank. The T-90M armor is equipped with a special anti-slip coating, the same one used on the newest T-14 "Armata". The first batch of T-90Ms entered the Russian Armed Forces this spring.

    https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/1709772.html
    Russian Tanks ERA and APS - Page 9 JlJ8PavlGD_FjsqiSe5lx6k_fcpQ5mNv5_R0p_T7hjlL-qwfbnN7eJL9EsaZxhlIZzy9ULq0W-wVfSeIZ70w44F4uUeuJTk1A2z6N_X1F3s

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:23 am

    where a big electric charge is flowing through the penetrator (APFSDS) or jet (HEAT) as they penetrate, reaching very high temperatures (tens of thousands of Kelvin) and thus, in the case of APFSDS, melting the penetrator, which makes it easier to deform, and, in the case of both, the large moving charge's magnetic field will help distort the penetrator or jet and thus greatly reduce their penetration depth.

    Interesting... the British were working on something like this but the whole vehicle had an inner and outer layer... it wasn't an add on armour... and the enormous currents they said would explode/destroy the penetrator whether it was a solid penetrator like APFSDS or the plasma beam of a HEAT round when it completed the circuit and received the enormous charge.

    Interesting if they have managed to make a material that does that when impacted... like Peizio crystals.... using the energy of the impact/penetrator against itself...
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    Post  Begome on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:Interesting... the British were working on something like this but the whole vehicle had an inner and outer layer... it wasn't an add on armour... and the enormous currents they said would explode/destroy the penetrator whether it was a solid penetrator like APFSDS or the plasma beam of a HEAT round when it completed the circuit and received the enormous charge.

    Interesting if they have managed to make a material that does that when impacted... like Peizio crystals.... using the energy of the impact/penetrator against itself...
    Yeah I heard about that as well; I got some of the additional info from this article, which actually also talks about a gap, which, when closed by a penetrator, will trigger the electrical discharge; so it sounds rather similar to what the Brits are up to, but likely, going from some other statements, is much more localized / modularized. I do doubt that converting the penetrator's kinetic energy would be enough, though, given the extreme energy levels they're talking about and the fact that they talk about "capacitors"...sounds more like these armor modules would need to be charged by a generator.
    As to "exploding the penetrator": that may well happen as they state plasma pressures of up to 1 kPa and temperatures of up to 30k Kelvin...the comment about a magnetic field distorting the penetrator was simply my own speculative ramblings, since moving charges create magnetic fields and thus exert force on, e.g. a HEAT jet or an APFSDS, which (presumably) is partially ionized (through the massive charge flowing through it, though in the case of Tungsten it would be ferromagnetic anyway and DU is at least paramagnetic), which IIUC would be perpendicular to the movement of the penetrator and could therefore distort it.

    I hope the current T-14s in production will get this as I'd really like to see it and find out more! It could be that only a second tranch after 2022, after the first 100 are produced and state tests concluded, will get it though; we'll see. I doubt they will be exporting it, though; probably export T-14s would get Malachit, which is still top-of-the-line ERA.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:15 am

    The talk of the next gen tank to replace the T-14 included mention it was going to be two connected chassis with a 3,000 hp gas turbine... which would be ideal for generating lots of electrical power for perhaps electric armour and of course an EM powered gun, with electric drive chassis likely essential too.

    Will be a bit like Star Trek in the sense of transferring power to the gun to fire and then to the armour and propulsion to get away.... and absorb return fire....

    I wonder if an enormous electrical jolt could effect the plasma of a HEAT warhead explosion an perhaps spread it out into a sheet rendering its penetration performance inert.

    I also wonder if previous generations of ERA type material can be used as well as this new electric one so you might have his electric one on the outside and then Cactus or Relick, and then the base armour to improve protection from a variety of threats.

    Imagine if that was your job... they give you a big 125mm smoothbore gun and different armour technologies and you have to shoot the armour and look at how the penetrator works and is effected by the armour types to work out the best combination and order...

    What a job... Smile
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    Post  thegopnik on Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:40 pm

    It's not yet mentioned that monolit is plasma dynamic armor. And it looks like your mixing two sources up. One source stated armour that uses energy. The 30,000 Kelvin source talks about using projectiles as active protection. But the future russia sees is using lasers for APS and now mentions of plasma projectiles
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    Post  Begome on Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:13 pm

    thegopnik wrote:It's not yet mentioned that monolit is plasma dynamic armor. And it looks like your mixing two sources up. One source stated armour that uses energy. The 30,000 Kelvin source talks about using projectiles as active protection. But the future russia sees is using lasers for APS and now mentions of plasma projectiles
    Hmm you're right...to be honest I only skimmed the article, after I found it when looking through Mindstorm's posts in this very thread (further back, from 2018), where he referred to it as "dynamic protection system", which in directly translated Russian typically means reactive armor, not APS. But reading it more carefully now it does indeed seem more like an APS and the "conductor closing the gap" may simply be part of the mechanism rather than a penetrator...it also talks about bringing elements on a trajectory against the incoming projectile and that the system would be a "plasmadynamic launcher"...I guess I should be more careful with my speculations in the future and actually read the articles fully Very Happy

    However, I'll still make one speculation (Laughing): could it be that this "plasmadynamic launcher" is that anti-top-attack system talked about in the NII Stali publication?

    Either way, I'm super excited to hear more about Monolit in the future and see Russian vehicles fire clouds of plasma to vaporize incoming projectiles thumbsup

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:47 am

    i am just happy to see they are buying ARENA-M for their T-90s finally... with funding through use the companies that make it can refine and improve the design to make it cheaper and more effective.

    The original design had a semicircle of munitions around the front of the turret that directed fragments forward and downwards to intercept incoming rounds but to prevent danger to friendly troops on the ground nearby.

    I always thought launching them up high in the air to fire down was clever to prevent friendly fire incidents, but also that targets coming in in a top attack diving profile could have munitions that fire fragments up instead of down.

    Also the value of spaced armour you could have an armoured area 80cm in front of the frontal armour plate with ERA on the front of it and then 50-100mm of light ceramic and composite armour and then perhaps a four layer cavity with ARENA munitions four deep around the entire front and sides and rear of the tank turret, with three layers firing forward and detonating down to intercept RPGs and TOWs and the common stuff on the modern battlefield, and one row of munitions firing up and back to intercept Javelin or Copperhead or other top attack weapons being developed.

    The actual weight would not be huge but it would make the turret much bigger, but also much better protected.

    Some sort of EO jamming system would probably be the best solution for Javelin or Copperhead based weapons most of the time, and the original ARENA could deal with BILL 2 type missiles anyway...

    I am sure they know what they are doing... Smile

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