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57 posters

    Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Mir
    Mir


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    Post  Mir Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:14 pm

    The launchers will most probably have to be slanted simply because the Tsirkons are said to be between one and two meters longer than the Granits. The Oniks as well as the tallest Kalibrs are nearly nine meters long as well.
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:28 pm

    Mir wrote:The launchers will most probably have to be slanted simply because the Tsirkons are said to be between one and two meters longer than the Granits. The Oniks as well as the tallest Kalibrs are nearly nine meters long as well.

    What are you talking about?

    Zircon is UKSK compatible AKA same size or smaller than Onyx

    It is launched from Gorshkovs
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:47 pm

    Same width but the length apparently varies. Tsirkon is reportedly longer but I haven't had the chance to tape measure it yet. Laughing

    Edit: Kalibr diameter seems smaller though?
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:54 pm

    Here you go found it!

    So yes Kalibr is smaller in diameter.

    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 22 Vluksk10
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:01 pm

    Kalibr is 533mm, it can be launched by kilo sub which uses only 533mm torpedoes. Oniks is 650-700mm.

    Kalibr has its wings inside of the body contrary to the others who take even more space in the launchers.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:07 am

    The general rule for the shipbuilding business is that a repair is always more expensive than building new

    Very true...

    We also don't know yet if the Zircon tubes will be inclined. They could vertical just like on Yasens and Gorshkovs.

    The original Granit tubes are inclined so if the new tubes are fitted inside then they will be inclined too.

    The launchers will most probably have to be slanted simply because the Tsirkons are said to be between one and two meters longer than the Granits. The Oniks as well as the tallest Kalibrs are nearly nine meters long as well.

    Granit is 10 metres long which is longer than the UKSK launcher could fit because it is 10m deep so missiles that fit into it need to be shorter than that, so Zircon will be shorter than that.

    If they load the liners and therefore the new missiles inside the existing Granit tubes then they will be angled too.

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:38 am

    UKSK launcher could fit because it is 10m deep

    It may be that these containers for the missiles could be of open ended architecture so that longer tubes could be suspended?

    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 22 Nakhim10
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:21 am

    GarryB wrote:

    If they load the liners and therefore the new missiles inside the existing Granit tubes then they will be angled too.


    What makes me uncertain here, is the fact that even if they have tested the angeled Oniks on some corvette, they don't run any serious upgrade program for the existing fleet.
    Lots of MRKs would be suitable for refitting and could be useful for many years - in the opposite when retaining the P-120 they carry.
    The answer to that is that they either expect massive deliveries of fresh new missile corvettes in required numbers, so no point in wasting time to modify 1241 that proved to be very reliable, but still coming into their 40s, or the angeled USKS/missile container is not such a great idea as we might think.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:20 am

    It may be that these containers for the missiles could be of open ended architecture so that longer tubes could be suspended?

    That is definitely a possibility, though rather than "extending" the UKSK launcher itself, they have been working on what has been called UKSK-M and if that is the case then there are obviously some issues with the current UKSK launcher that they want to address... which might include tube width and tube length, as well as potentially being able to be loaded on an angle, and other features we might not be aware of.

    What makes me uncertain here, is the fact that even if they have tested the angeled Oniks on some corvette, they don't run any serious upgrade program for the existing fleet.
    Lots of MRKs would be suitable for refitting and could be useful for many years - in the opposite when retaining the P-120 they carry.
    The answer to that is that they either expect massive deliveries of fresh new missile corvettes in required numbers, so no point in wasting time to modify 1241 that proved to be very reliable, but still coming into their 40s, or the angeled USKS/missile container is not such a great idea as we might think.

    I suspect as good as previous missile craft might have been all the improvements in electronics and systems probably means a new ship will be rather better and shouldn't be too hard to mass produce in numbers by several yards once they have decided on the final specs and configuration.

    Certainly minor upgrades could be made and gifted to allies where the boats are too good to scrap, but I suspect they might also want to export new small boats too...

    New boats will accommodate new systems and equipment like UAVs and surface and subsurface drones that were never even considered on older vessels, and of course new radar and sonar arrays and new electronics will have moved on considerably in the last 40 years... not to mention the new boats will be mostly if not all Russian components which will replace a lot of imported stuff too... which is better for the Russian economy.
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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:52 am

    That is the point.
    I consider it from the Polish perspective, where 1241s proved to be extremely long life&reliable.
    Still, removed from service rather than converted for NSM.
    As ours carried the P-21/22 system, can't compare them to the ones the Soviets had, still it was an extremely capable ship.
    What is less common, it the fact that those ships could operate up to 8th Beaufort, which is really amazing considering it's size. It was an ideal hulk for rough seas, like Baltic, Ochotsk etc. Combining with 45 knots max speed, represented a Porsche of naval warfare back in the 80s...

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