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Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway

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Post n°176

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:37 pm

GarryB wrote:Nice example of reusing old kit...

That 76.2mm gun turret is a PT-76 turret.

Lack of stabilisation would make it a poor choice for use at sea, but for a river boat it is fine for hitting targets on the water and on the shore.

Plus spares and ammo are in stock, likely in large numbers as the gun is the same as that fitted to the T-34/76 I believe.

Yes i saw that, but i thought- What a piece of junk!
In peacetime as threatening smugglers and illegal fishing alright, but in an armed conflict of any sort, its a worthless coffin.

But i realise they cannot reequip with new ships everywhere all at once.
They could at least not boast of having this junk left..

GarryB

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Post n°177

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:47 am

Well actually I think the thing to keep in mind is that this is the Caspian flotilla, so the chance of this vessel coming up against a Sea Wolf or an AEGIS cruiser is zero.

This boat is designed for operating in rivers and shallow parts of the northern Caspian Sea, for which unstabilised old 76.2mm guns are actually probably overkill, and easily more than enough to deal will illegal fishermen and smugglers.

TheArmenian

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Post n°178

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

TheArmenian Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:55 pm

Think of this boat as army equipment rather than Navy. Something like a combined light tank and BM-21 MLRS operating close to shore. To keep them operational, it costs the Russians just fuel and the occasional paint job. No reason to retire or replace them.

GarryB

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Post n°179

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:16 am

To keep them operational, it costs the Russians just fuel and the occasional paint job. No reason to retire or replace them.

Exactly... you could spend a lot of money on a bright shiny high tech replacement, but it wouldn't actually do a better job.

runaway

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Post n°180

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:41 pm

GarryB wrote:

To keep them operational, it costs the Russians just fuel and the occasional paint job. No reason to retire or replace them.

Exactly... you could spend a lot of money on a bright shiny high tech replacement, but it wouldn't actually do a better job.

Yes, but in that case, are they really needed?

Caspian flottila, arent they supposed to operate in the caspian sea?
There you have Iranian patrolboats, as well as Kazahkstan and Azerbadjan.

If they are only to operate in the rivers ok, but again, are they needed?

GarryB

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Post n°181

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:20 am

If they are only to operate in the rivers ok, but again, are they needed?

If they were really expensive and super high tech it would probably be hard to justify them as they are just patrol boats.

They also have larger higher tech vessels in the caspian sea flotilla too, but they have better armament like modern 57mm automatic cannon and missiles.

This vessel is mainly for river use and is designed to operate in relatively shallow waters in the northern caspian and the river tributaries.

As TheArmenian said, it is a highly mobile light tank and rocket artillery asset that combines high short range fire power with excellent mobility.

It has more of a border patrol role and would not be used in a conflict.

Poachers and smugglers and drug dealers however can sometimes have a surprising amount of fire power and this vessel has enough weapons to ensure superiority against most conceivable threats... anything too big and they can call in a larger vessel.

BTW river vessels like these have a strong history with the Soviet and Russian Navy and were very effective in several battles during WWII. A bit like their armoured trains... forgotten by the west, but found to be useful enough to be worth keeping available.

runaway

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Post n°182

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:57 pm

GarryB wrote:
BTW river vessels like these have a strong history with the Soviet and Russian Navy and were very effective in several battles during WWII. A bit like their armoured trains... forgotten by the west, but found to be useful enough to be worth keeping available.

Good point, and it makes sense, but dont tell me they have armoured trains in reserve.. that would be so supercool. And so WW1.... and WW2!

GarryB

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Post n°183

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:41 am

In the far East they might... I remember seeing a video from the late 70s or early 80s showing the view from one end of a train that had several dozen carriages and on each carriage there was some sort of weapon mounting... machineguns, HMGs, most of them anti aircraft mounts, as well as cannon like ZU-23s and ZU-14.5s, quad mount 12.7mms, multiple 7.62mm calibre gun mounts as well as some flatbeds with actual tanks being carried, including from memory T-54/55s and T-62s and T-72s that had their turrets traversed to the side and firing.

It was one hell of a hail storm of tracer and smoke.

There are lots of places in the far east of Russia where there are no roads, but there is a rail line, so it makes sense for armoured and armed trains to be used... even just to patrol the rail line and protect transport trains from air power.

I guess these day they could add missiles for air defence, and missiles for use against ground targets and probably rockets as well.

I remember reading they used armoured trains during the many border disputes with China in the 60s and 70s, but actual details are hard to come by.

GarryB

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Post n°184

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:02 am

runaway

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Post n°185

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:37 pm

Wow, thats so cool!
Guess i`m a sucker for Lokomotives..

And they wouldnt be entirely useless, not against 3rd world countries.

Now, how about Frances TGV`s. Imagine highspeed armoured trains...

Well, back to the issue, i would think that 2nd and 3rd rate russian equipment would be enough to match many opponents. I tend to compare everything with west high tech.

GarryB

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Post n°186

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:20 am

I tend to compare everything with west high tech.

A problem there is that when we see NATO forces go on interventions they aren't sending their entire forces... just the best equipped and best trained bits.

This vessel looks a bit low tech, but it is basically a patrol boat for coastal and river patrol...

Regarding trains people look at modern armoured forces and think it is all about tanks and APCs... but when there are no roads at all, but there is a rail line through the middle of the place then mobility and fire power and the ability to move forces rapidly from place to place suddenly make the train the best option in many cases.

Many western experts turn up their noses at the Russians using horse back cavalry during WWII, but in some cases they were very very effective.

The mobility and speed of a man on horseback is underestimated these days... as long as you don't go charging guys with machine guns it can be very effective even today in rough mountain terrain.

These things don't need to be used against third world countries to be effective... another thing the west doesn't understand about the Soviets keeping all those old tanks... in a lower priority sector of a conflict a T-54 or T-55 with ERA and upgraded with laser range finders and fire control systems to improve hit probability means that even in WWIII such vehicles would be useful against enemy IFVs and other softer targets... for every tank on the battlefield there are 20-30 other vehicles supporting them with no where near the same level of armour, whose destruction would severely reduce the performance of the enemies tanks.

Now, how about Frances TGV`s. Imagine highspeed armoured trains...

Imagine a high speed armoured and armed nuclear powered train...

http://rt.com/news/sci-tech/revolutionary-locomotive-russia-atomic/

Russian Patriot

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Post n°187

Russian Pacific Fleet task force heads to Mariana Islands

Russian Patriot Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:41 pm

Russian Pacific Fleet task force heads to Mariana Islands

RIA Novosti

07:52 01/10/2011

VLADIVOSTOK, October 1 (RIA Novosti) - A Russian Pacific Fleet task force led by the missile cruiser Varyag has completed its courtesy visit to the Japanese port of Maizuru and set sail for U.S. Mariana Islands, the fleet spokesman said on Saturday.

The task force, which also includes the Irkut tanker and a salvage tugboat, will take part in the Pacific Eagle-2011 exercise with the U.S. Navy, Capt. 1st Rank Roman Martov said.

After that, the ships will pay a friendly visit to the port of Vancouver in Canada. The task force is expected to return home in the beginning of December.

The Varyag is a Slava class missile cruiser, designed as a surface strike ship with some anti-air and ASW capability. The sixteen SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles are mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure, giving the ship a distinctive appearance.

NATO experts had dubbed Russian combat ships of this class "the killer of aircraft carriers," as they can launch 1,000 kg of high-explosives or a tactical nuclear warhead to a range of 300 miles.

A task force led by Varyag, the flagship of the Pacific Fleet, paid a friendly visit to the United States in June last year.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-111001-rianovosti01.htm

Mindstorm

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Post n°188

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Mindstorm Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:07 pm

From the last news appear that the R&D program for the new generation multipurpose "stealth" destroyer has been accelerated.

http://rt.com/news/navy-new-destroyer-project-441/

I don't believe that the first ship of the new project will see the light in 2012 as suggested, but 2013 could likely become the year of presentation of this new generation blu-water unit.

In my opinion opt for nuclear propulsion will reveal itself as the most reasonable choice ,because with similar planned number of unities costs for development and lower life-operation costs will write off the greater initial expenses ...that ,obviously, leaving out of the line of reasonment the increased overall capabilities implementable in a similarly powered destroyer and the inherent increases of scientifical know-hows in a similar crucial sector....

I am already very impressed by the capabilities (both in the anti-surface and in the anti-air departement) of the Pr. 22350 frigate, absolutely comparable ,in sheer power, with typical destroyers of other navies ; fr4omk the declarations it appear that this destroyer will have several UKSK tubes with highly customizable load.

Austin

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Post n°189

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Austin Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:11 pm

I am highly skeptical that may go for Nuclear Propulsion if they plan to buy 12- 14 ships as nuclear propulsion is a very expensive proposition , Gas Turbine might be cheaper becuase Russia any ways has a very large reserves of gas.

Mindstorm

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Post n°190

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Mindstorm Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:14 pm

I am highly skeptical that may go for Nuclear Propulsion if they plan to buy 12- 14 ships as nuclear propulsion is a very expensive proposition , Gas Turbine might be cheaper becuase Russia any ways has a very large reserves of gas.

I am skeptical,instead, that the number of new generation destroyers will be 14-16 ; if the number of ships will be this one nuclear propulsion will reveal the cheaper option on the long run and surely the option opening also more design solutions ; we can only wait and observe what will happen.

GarryB

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Post n°191

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:14 pm

The Russian military is going for capability and high tech.

Gas Turbines means everywhere the vessel goes it needs a team of tankers to follow it to give it a fuel top up every so often.

A modern NPP could be designed to not need refuelling for 30 years or more, so after 30 years of operation the savings in fuel will be enormous.

The Russians are building land based breeder reactors... place spent fuel rods around the core of those and they become reenriched over time... so free nuclear fuel for domestic use, weapons production, and potentially for export as well.

Russian Patriot

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Post n°192

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Russian Patriot Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:27 pm

Russian-U.S. naval anti-terror exercises begin in Pacific

07:54 13/10/2011
VLADIVOSTOK, October 13 (RIA Novosti)
Tags: Varyag, Russian Pacific Fleet, U.S. Navy, Pacific Ocean, Mariana Islands

The Russian and the United States navies began joint anti-terrorism exercises near the Mariana Islands on Thursday, a Russian Pacific Fleet spokesman said.

The Russian task force is led by the Varyag guided missile cruiser and also includes the Irkut tanker and a salvage tugboat.

"On Thursday, October 13, a Pacific Fleet task force completed its business visit to the Apra Harbor and along with the U.S. Navy task force headed to high seas for the Pacific Eagle-2011 joint exercise," Capt. 1st Rank Roman Martov said.

On Thursday the U.S. and Russian ships will train joint maneuvering and exchange of light signals.

"Early on October 14, the active phase of the exercise will begin. It will include numerous scenarios, including an operation to liberate a vessel seized by terrorists," Martov said.

After the drills the Russian task force will pay a visit to Vancouver, Canada and return to Vladivostok in early December.

The Varyag is a Slava class missile cruiser, designed as a surface strike ship with some anti-air and ASW capability. The sixteen SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles are mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure, giving the ship a distinctive appearance.

NATO experts had dubbed Russian combat ships of this class "the killer of aircraft carriers," as they can launch 1,000 kg of high-explosives or a tactical nuclear warhead to a range of 300 miles.

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111013/167641543.html

Russian Patriot

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Post n°193

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Russian Patriot Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:53 pm

Russian Black Sea fleet ship to take part in joint naval drills with Italy

The Smetlivy anti-submarine ship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet will leave its home port of Sevastopol later on Sunday and head to the Mediterranean Sea to prepare for the Ioniex 2011 Russian-Italian naval exercise, a Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said.

The drill will take place in early November, he said.

The Ioniex exercise is held every two years as part of the cooperation program between the Russian and Italian navies.

The Smetlivy, a Kashin class guided missile destroyer, was built in the 1960s and modernized in the mid-1990s. The ship is equipped with (SS-N-25 Switchblade, Harpoonski) short-range surface-to-surface cruise missiles and MNK-300 sonar.

Russia’s rescue ship Epron will also be involved in the drill, the spokesman added.

In 2010, the Ladny frigate and Shakhtyor rescue tug of the Black Sea Fleet participated in the Ioniex exercise.

http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20111030/168256326.html

Mindstorm

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Post n°194

Russia to build 6 Submarines Annually - Deputy PM

Mindstorm Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:12 pm

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120202/171099357.html

“By 2013, production capacity [at Russian shipyards] will allow us to build six submarines and an aircraft carrier every year,” Rogozin told reporters, adding that the number includes both nuclear and diesel-powered submarines.

As a result, the production output will surpass that of the Soviet era when Russia built an average of five submarines annually, he said.

Rogozin earlier said the production had been bogged down in the past by a lack of financing, outdated equipment and a shortage of skilled labor.

Russia is planning to build eight Borey class strategic submarines and up to 10 Graney class attack subs by 2020.

This thread has a deep ,not plainly evident link with that on the "strange" ,almost mad, statements produced by Russian Generals on T-90S MBT, BM-30 Smerch, cruise missiles etc..etc..

To anyone the task to realize what.....

runaway

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Post n°195

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

runaway Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:21 pm

"Russia will start producing six submarines and one aircraft carrier annually starting in 2013, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.

“By 2013, production capacity [at Russian shipyards] will allow us to build six submarines and an aircraft carrier every year,” Rogozin told reporters, adding that the number includes both nuclear and diesel-powered submarines."

Whos mad? 6 subs and a aircraft carrier each year!
Well, with diesel subs, thats no problem to start producing. But aircraft carriers!
I guess the report is faulty, no new carrier will be laid down in 2013, but certainly the Kuznetsov will be laid up for overhaul. And with the new Mistrals to be built in russia, maybe you can say "a new carrier annually", though not entirely correct.

TR1

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Post n°196

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

TR1 Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:25 pm

I was hoping Rogozin would not be yet another one of these fantasy tellers.

Guess I was wrong.

Viktor

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Post n°197

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Viktor Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm

TR1 wrote:I was hoping Rogozin would not be yet another one of these fantasy tellers.

Guess I was wrong.

Well Popovkin today announced Russians will be at Moon by 2020

so I guess there was a large party night before involving lots of drinks and

drugs and bitches and Russian anthem and etc ....

GarryB

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Post n°198

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

GarryB Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:59 am

Well he is talking about production capacity... not what will actually be produced.

Even Corvettes in the Russian Navy will carry Aircraft, so I wouldn't read too much in to it.

TheArmenian

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Post n°199

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

TheArmenian Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:26 am

I think he meant: Six submarines and an aircraft carrier can be built simultaneously at the shipyard.
That does not mean 6 subs and a carrrier will be delivered every year.

Admin

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Post n°200

Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Admin Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:32 am

The aircraft carriers refereed to are Mistrals.

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Russian Pacific Fleet task force heads to Mariana Islands

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Russia to build 6 Submarines Annually - Deputy PM

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