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    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 27, 2023 8:10 am

    It is funny you mention this because I have thought a good upgrade for Russian ATGMs would be to convert the Metis-M2 to use the laser beam riding guidance of the Kornet and now Bulat because the export price of the Kornet is very cheap. One order for a large number of missiles came to about $5K per missiles and that was not including the launchers so the actual price was probably less.

    If you converted the Metis missile to laser beam riding you could boost its flight speed and range quite easily and if the Metis used laser beam riding guidance then they could also carry the Bulat missile as well for lighter targets that don't require the 950mm plus penetration of the Metis system.

    It was always a manpack type system for three men to carry the launcher and five missiles, so being able to carry much smaller and more compact but still guided missiles would make the system even more flexible.

    With the AT-4 and AT-5 with the BMP-2 and BRDM-3 they introduced a combined launcher that could fire either missile to make them more flexible so you could carry more missiles and if a target presented itself that was within range of the smaller missile and didn't need max penetration then you could use a smaller lighter missile and save the heavier missiles for greater ranges and heavier targets.

    The five ready to launch rails of the BRDM-3 was a good example where it could carry more missiles if lighter missiles and heavy missiles were carried together.

    The added flight speed and improved range would also be good features, and of course the lighter weight and more compact design of the Bulat missiles would likely be seen as useful too.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 27, 2023 8:12 am

    BTW they were certainly talking about an upgraded SPG-9M with improved ammo and possibly accuracy improvements using perhaps gyros or guidance or both.

    One should not underestimate the value of a direct fire light weight weapon that delivers HE rounds or anti armour rounds accurately.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:16 am

    SPG-9 is somewhat limited because of being recoilless. That limits the round speed, which hinders both accuracy and range. Answer would be some kind of RAP I guess dunno

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    11E


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    Post  11E Sun Aug 27, 2023 12:58 pm

    IIRC the BRDM-3 was/is the incorrect designation for the 9P148 and that the BRDM-3 is a recce variant based on the BTR-82A?

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is funny you mention this because I have thought a good upgrade for Russian ATGMs would be to convert the Metis-M2 to use the laser beam riding guidance of the Kornet and now Bulat because the export price of the Kornet is very cheap. One order for a large number of missiles came to about $5K per missiles and that was not including the launchers so the actual price was probably less.

    If you converted the Metis missile to laser beam riding you could boost its flight speed and range quite easily and if the Metis used laser beam riding guidance then they could also carry the Bulat missile as well for lighter targets that don't require the 950mm plus penetration of the Metis system.


    Just impossible: Metis missiles doesn't carry a battery inside but receive the electricity they need to steer through the wire itself.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:11 am

    SPG-9 is somewhat limited because of being recoilless.

    SPG-9 is lightweight because it is recoilless.

    The 73mm gun of the BMP-1 used essentially the same ammo with reduced propellent with better range and speed because it was a gun, but such a gun would create recoil and be rather heavier than the SPG-9 for only modest performance improvements.

    That limits the round speed, which hinders both accuracy and range. Answer would be some kind of RAP I guess

    The difference between the RPG-2 and RPG-7 was the sustainer rocket motor on the RPG-7 which transformed it into a much better weapon... a rocket sustainer motor to flatten the flight path and increase average speed would not be that hard or complex to add to recoilless rifle ammo rounds.

    Of course unlike the RPG-7 you would have a full calibre rocket motor, so instead of gradually bigger rocket warheads being propelled by a 40mm rocket motor you would have a full calibre rocket motor.

    Perhaps even develop a new 80mm rocket based on aircraft rockets and warheads, but of course their rocket motors ignite from launch and burn a few hundred metres and burn out... a shoulder launched version would be better to be blasted out of the launch tube and then not light up its main rocket till it has travelled 10-20m or so to protect the operator.

    I do like the RPO-M launcher designed to be attached to various calibre disposable rocket types... perhaps a unified launcher system that you can attach disposable rockets of the RPO and MRO and the other types as well, with a built in ballistics computer and laser range finder to improve field performance without needing guided rockets... well perhaps add modified 80mm and perhaps 57mm rockets of the air launched variety as well as a small unified launcher for guided missiles like Metis and Bulat.

    This is primarily for special forces and light mobile units... perhaps something built in to a bicycle or even tricycle for mobility.

    IIRC the BRDM-3 was/is the incorrect designation for the 9P148 and that the BRDM-3 is a recce variant based on the BTR-82A?

    Yes, you are quite right... for most of the cold war we had to rely on the west for such information and they were not that great...

    Just impossible: Metis missiles doesn't carry a battery inside but receive the electricity they need to steer through the wire itself.

    A modern battery could provide power and the space needed for the wire alone and the spooling mechanism that deployed the wire in flight could be replaced with the new optical system and a decent sized battery.

    The Bulat is a rather tiny missile so it really can't take that much space for the tail mounted tracking system.

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 28642714

    Compared with Kornet Bulat is rather small and compared with the 57mm grenade on the table it looks to be 65-75mm calibre maybe... it appears to mimic the design of the Kornet so yellow tip is a HEAT precursor charge, the gray is the rocket motor propellent, then the darker yellow is the main shaped charge, then the very rear gray bit is the electronics and control surfaces and rear looking optical system. The two nose mounted fins steer the missile... only having two reduces costs and complexity, but as the missile rolls in flight enables good enough manouver performance to hit moving battlefield targets...

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:54 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 5476910
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    BMP-1AM in the SMO zone, with roof protection

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:28 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 1928810
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    BMP-2 with add-on armor

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:28 pm

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    BMP-2 with cage armor

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:20 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 Screen39

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:50 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 10565010
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    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 50876810

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:18 am

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 43603110


    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 50876810


    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 Transl11

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:13 pm

    I was too lazy for that. Shocked

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:57 am

    I can't translate Russian into English....

    I just went to this site:

    https://translate.yandex.com/

    Set the language to Russian and English, and clicked the select link in the translating photos box and opened your pictures, and it automatically translated them, so then I just clicked on download and it downloaded the translated images into my downloads folder and I then just posted them here.

    No manual labour required.  Smile
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:19 pm

    I know. But it was easier to let you do the work. Very Happy

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:50 am

    Wouldn't call that work... it took less time to do than to explain in the post above what I did...

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:01 pm

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:59 am

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 27663510
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    BMP-2 with add-on armor

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:15 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 Photo-10

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    Post  Hole Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:58 pm

    BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 13 Photo-14

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