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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:41 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is a floating Nuclear problem right now even if they would modernize which they have said isn't happening.

    They would need to deal with the fact when the reactor cracked, it started to leak they never fixed or cleaned it up just parked it there and left it.

    there are numerous reports of radiation emitting from this vessel in a dangerous manner, even the mayor of a nearby town said it's posing a problem to them.

    That would take a very long time to clean up, and it would take years for the radiation to die down. The Hull is dead, why they haven't removed this hazard I don't know.

    You're talking about the Adm Ushakov (ex-Kirov), not the Lazarev. She's most likely beyond repair now due to cost.

    Numerous reports.... even the major said... yeah well, we all know people talk shit and others echo the shit if it suits them. Lazarev went into dry dock ~5 years ago (exact date?) and they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk. Dunno what their long term plans are, but i wouldn't 100% rule out a future modernisation for the Lazarev after PtG is rebuilt.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:07 pm

    they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk.    

    It was painted before Putin's visit.

    Now the rust is gone.

    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov] - Page 24 57348010
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:33 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk.    

    It was painted before Putin's visit.

    Now the rust is gone.

    [url=https://servimg.com/view/1989513http://i.servimg.com/u/f80/19/89/51/30/57348010.jpg[/img]


    I doubt they would have bothered with painting this monster just for PR visit

    And even if it was in mint condition fact remains that time required to overhaul just on work them is too long

    PtG was supposed to be overhauled in same shipyard as Nakhimonov but behold thing has been dragging so long that they now have to send it elsewhere in parallel with Nakhimonov

    Lazarov is a goner
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:55 pm

    All this discussion based on implicit assumptions.

    1) Why bother doing anything with these "rust buckets" if they should be scrapped?

    2) Do people seriously think that Russia can't afford these overhaul projects. Looks like some ignorant notions
    about how long overhaul jobs should take is driving this hot air skepticism.

    As for the viability of any overhaul, the age of the ship depends on its time being distorted in every direction by
    wave action. A ship sitting in a dock is only compromised if rain water is allowed to leak into the interior and
    rust it from the inside out. One would assume that these ships were not treated like the hangar in Kazakhstan
    that housed the Buran shuttle. Russia ain't Ukraine and ain't Kazakhstan.
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    southpark

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    Post  southpark Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:04 pm

    It is not a goner for sure....but they will probably not start on it till ptg and nakhimov are operational. Only under some serious situational changes in geo political scene, will they accelerate its rebuild in my opinion. Like in any engineering, overhaul's and modernization are not necessarily worth it when technology leaps by generations but a hull is a hull, so there is always that potential especially considering that sort of tonnage is unheard of outside the CVN/CVC class in recent times...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:35 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is a floating Nuclear problem right now even if they would modernize which they have said isn't happening.

    They would need to deal with the fact when the reactor cracked, it started to leak they never fixed or cleaned it up just parked it there and left it.

    there are numerous reports of radiation emitting from this vessel in a dangerous manner, even the mayor of a nearby town said it's posing a problem to them.

    That would take a very long time to clean up, and it would take years for the radiation to die down. The Hull is dead, why they haven't removed this hazard I don't know.

    You're talking about the Adm Ushakov (ex-Kirov), not the Lazarev.  She's most likely beyond repair now due to cost.

    Numerous reports....   even the major said...   yeah well, we all know people talk shit and others echo the shit if it suits them.  Lazarev went into dry dock ~5 years ago (exact date?) and they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk. Dunno what their long term plans are, but i wouldn't 100% rule out a future modernisation for the Lazarev after PtG is rebuilt.    

    Oh your right that is my derp, I was groggy when I wrote that.

    That said no Lazarev would require even moe work that Naki, The MoD is alreayd unhappy with the time delays and amount of cost the refit is costing them.

    The hull is also in bad shape, they went into lazarev years ago to see if she was suitable condition wise and long story short the ship isn't. The Russian's aren't going to refit this vessel, they have said so multiple times.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:47 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is a floating Nuclear problem right now even if they would modernize which they have said isn't happening.

    They would need to deal with the fact when the reactor cracked, it started to leak they never fixed or cleaned it up just parked it there and left it.

    there are numerous reports of radiation emitting from this vessel in a dangerous manner, even the mayor of a nearby town said it's posing a problem to them.

    That would take a very long time to clean up, and it would take years for the radiation to die down. The Hull is dead, why they haven't removed this hazard I don't know.

    You're talking about the Adm Ushakov (ex-Kirov), not the Lazarev.  She's most likely beyond repair now due to cost.

    Numerous reports....   even the major said...   yeah well, we all know people talk shit and others echo the shit if it suits them.  Lazarev went into dry dock ~5 years ago (exact date?) and they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk. Dunno what their long term plans are, but i wouldn't 100% rule out a future modernisation for the Lazarev after PtG is rebuilt.    


    Oh your right that is my derp, I was groggy when I wrote that.

    That said no Lazarev would require even moe work that Naki, The MoD is alreayd unhappy with the time delays and amount of cost the refit is costing them.

    The hull is also in bad shape, they went into lazarev years ago to see if she was suitable condition wise and long story short the ship isn't. The Russian's aren't going to refit this vessel, they have said so multiple times.

    and its logic. They should put funds to Lider class destroyer/cruiser
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    bolshevik345

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    Post  bolshevik345 Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:55 am

    George1 wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is a floating Nuclear problem right now even if they would modernize which they have said isn't happening.

    They would need to deal with the fact when the reactor cracked, it started to leak they never fixed or cleaned it up just parked it there and left it.

    there are numerous reports of radiation emitting from this vessel in a dangerous manner, even the mayor of a nearby town said it's posing a problem to them.

    That would take a very long time to clean up, and it would take years for the radiation to die down. The Hull is dead, why they haven't removed this hazard I don't know.

    You're talking about the Adm Ushakov (ex-Kirov), not the Lazarev.  She's most likely beyond repair now due to cost.

    Numerous reports....   even the major said...   yeah well, we all know people talk shit and others echo the shit if it suits them.  Lazarev went into dry dock ~5 years ago (exact date?) and they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk. Dunno what their long term plans are, but i wouldn't 100% rule out a future modernisation for the Lazarev after PtG is rebuilt.    


    Oh your right that is my derp, I was groggy when I wrote that.

    That said no Lazarev would require even moe work that Naki, The MoD is alreayd unhappy with the time delays and amount of cost the refit is costing them.

    The hull is also in bad shape, they went into lazarev years ago to see if she was suitable condition wise and long story short the ship isn't. The Russian's aren't going to refit this vessel, they have said so multiple times.

    and its logic. They should put funds to Lider class destroyer/cruiser

    What about the teeny tiny problem that the lider doesnt exist and will not exist for the next 2 decades or more if papadragon is to be believed?

    Lazarev exists. Lider doesn't. By the time lider exists it will still take more time than upgrading lazarev.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:10 pm

    What about the teeny tiny problem that the lider doesnt exist and will not exist for the next 2 decades or more if papadragon is to be believed?

    This has nothing to do with PapaDragon, this is simple reality

    Lider is still in design phase at best, design is not complete, not approved, money has not been allocated, contract has not been signed and construction has neither commenced nor completed

    It will take at least two decades at best until all this happens and first ship is in the water

    Lazarev exists. Lider doesn't. By the time lider exists it will still take more time than upgrading lazarev.

    Lazarev is trashed and is slated for scrapping, government decided on this years ago

    Lider will not be built for another two decades.

    Neither will exist any time soon.

    What they need to do build (and only thing they can) are Gorshkov series, only thing available for next two decades
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:03 am

    When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:18 am

    GarryB wrote:When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.

    And where would they go?

    If USA goes for 1t dollar budget Russia will be too busy fortifying the mainland

    Going on some ship cruise too far out in that environment would be suicidal and pointless especially in those rust buckets

    And if there's one thing they would need should that happen is more smaller ships to spread the workload
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:38 am

    When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.

    Both is true, but Russians will rather go for the blue water navy to fill the gap.

    If USA goes for 1t dollar budget Russia will be too busy fortifying the mainland

    Russians will support Trump again I suspect, and it may be a decisive factor again. Better spend a trillion on US homeland defence than 700 bn in the Middle East. The roles are reversing, Russia is becoming dominant in MENA and the US is saying their allies should take care of themselves.
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    Post  southpark Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:04 am

    So offtopic only when the American talks I guess....well, I read somewhere that at debt at 150% of GDP and current interests, most of our revenues will go in servicing the interest on debt....so most likely we will see repriotization of the programs and white elephants will be culled. Trump made a statement today to put the feeler out there....I think the Russian's are probably waiting for decent strategies to counter imminent hypersonic missile proliferation before accelerating their builds. They obviously are capable of building big ships...more than money....requirements are the key I think.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:56 am

    Totally, the requirements matter. They may be delaying the blue water ships construction to see what will Tico replacement look like.
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    Post  Isos Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:47 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote: Totally, the requirements matter. They may be delaying the blue water ships construction to see what will Tico replacement look like.

    They are replaced by burkes III.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CG(X)

    The program was cancelled in the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review.[3] The CG(X)'s mission will instead be performed by DDG-51 Flight III destroyers, after the U.S. Navy concluded that the ships could rely on off-board and space-based sensors and so did not need a radar bigger than the DDG could carry.[4][5]

    Russia needs at least to upgrade the su-33 and mig-29k with r-37 and increase its range to at least 500km with passive radar to detect awacs.

    R-77-1 100km range  will be turned into r-77M 190km range. With the same technology they can do the same for r-37 300km to 500km.

    S-400 and s-500 need to be able to shoot awacs at 500km too. Even 600km if they get new space based passive sensors to track awacs which emmit radars waves at more 1000km.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:41 pm

    The plan is to start laying down "Large Surface Combatant" hulls in 2025 after the last Burke III.
    runaway
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    Post  runaway Mon May 13, 2019 1:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk.    

    It was painted before Putin's visit.

    Now the rust is gone.

    [url=https://servimg.com/view/1989513http://i.servimg.com/u/f80/19/89/51/30/57348010.jpg[/img]


    I doubt they would have bothered with painting this monster just for PR visit

    And even if it was in mint condition fact remains that time required to overhaul just on work them is too long

    PtG was supposed to be overhauled in same shipyard as Nakhimonov but behold thing has been dragging so long that they now have to send it elsewhere in parallel with Nakhimonov

    Lazarov is a goner

    I can see the problem with getting her to Severodvinsk if nothing else. But i much doubt they would paint her if she is due to be scrapped next year. Its no small to paint and its not cheap.
    However i would lay my resourses on Gorshkovs instead as its much more cost effective.
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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:19 am

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/120863/

    JSC Armalit from St. Petersburg has completed the manufacture of steam collectors for the modernization of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov.
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:38 am

    Nostalgic/historic but worth to see

    https://youtu.be/IHioFlmcFQg

    Sent from Topic'it App
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:40 am

    Any new from Severodvinsk? Has been scheduled a date for sea trials?

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:24 pm

    Gibraltar wrote:Any new from Severodvinsk? Has been scheduled a date for sea trials?

    Sent from Topic'it App

    Nope. The completion date has been delayed time and time again and is grossly over budget at this point
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:51 am

    Nostalgic/historic but worth to see

    Nice find BTW... thanks for posting... Smile
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    Post  hoom Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:22 pm

    Latest word on ETA https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F83/
    The nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, undergoing repairs at Sevmash, will be launched into the water in 2021, and will be given to the fleet only at the turn of 2022–2023. This was announced on Thursday, June 27 at the Army-2019 forum by the President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov.

    “We are obliged to free his current mooring place, dry dock in 2021, because otherwise his delay will affect the production program of Sevmash. We will prepare it for launching and finish building it already on the water."
    Delays pretty unsurprising when they're still messing around with the steam plant, no great sign of exterior progress via recent Google Earth pics.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:25 pm

    Nothing we didn't already know.

    But looks like they are finally moving to scrap the non-usable Kirov's.

    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/04/18/lom/
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:19 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Nothing we didn't already know.

    But looks like they are finally moving to scrap the non-usable Kirov's.

    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/04/18/lom/


    Good to hear, got sick and tired of online fantasies about overhauling two floating nuclear disasters



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