Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+64
Gazputin
OminousSpudd
Swede55
lyle6
limb
marat
Navy fanboy
magnumcromagnon
Krepost
lancelot
Mir
Podlodka77
mnztr
The-thing-next-door
wilhelm
Cyberspec
Rodion_Romanovic
Gibraltar
Tsavo Lion
verkhoturye51
hoom
Labrador
miroslav
Hole
littlerabbit
kumbor
Singular_Transform
walle83
A1RMAN
franco
Isos
SeigSoloyvov
zg18
KiloGolf
AlfaT8
Benya
Ned86
PapaDragon
Big_Gazza
GunshipDemocracy
JohninMK
Book.
artjomh
chicken
Ugen
Naval Fan
Vympel
TheArmenian
flamming_python
Notio
Hachimoto
Flyingdutchman
Vann7
KomissarBojanchev
TR1
George1
Viktor
runaway
Hoof
GarryB
Admin
Stealthflanker
sepheronx
Russian Patriot
68 posters

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 1674
    Points : 1678
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Podlodka77 02/11/22, 02:30 am

    Isos wrote:P1000 as well as p700 and p500 are good but I would bet on aster family.

    They didn't develop Oniks and Zirkon because they wanted more beautiful missiles.

    Also good luck finding a target 1000km away with a lonely Slava. To use them at those ranges you need aircraft in the air. In the open ocean with no back up from mainland aviation those Slava and P1000 are weaker than US carrier battle groums with f-18 and harpoons.

    And if the story about Ukrainian anti ship missiles destroying the Moskva is real then this ship didn't do what it was suppise to do, defend against slow low flying missiles and here it was war time. And US strike groups with dozens of f-18 can launch way more missiles at once than Ukrops.



    Do the Russians have the GLONASS military satellite system and Beriev A-50 aircraft ? Isos, the MiG-31 would have no problem fighting the surface fleet of France... Such a huge radar as the MiG-31 has is difficult to jam, especially compared to the small radar on the Rafale..
    In the event of a conflict between Russia and France, I would transfer all the Rafale planes in, let's say Germany.. bounce

    Rodion_Romanovic and Hole like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 10254
    Points : 10240
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Isos 02/11/22, 02:33 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:P1000 as well as p700 and p500 are good but I would bet on aster family.

    They didn't develop Oniks and Zirkon because they wanted more beautiful missiles.

    Also good luck finding a target 1000km away with a lonely Slava. To use them at those ranges you need aircraft in the air. In the open ocean with no back up from mainland aviation those Slava and P1000 are weaker than US carrier battle groums with f-18 and harpoons.

    And if the story about Ukrainian anti ship missiles destroying the Moskva is real then this ship didn't do what it was suppise to do, defend against slow low flying missiles and here it was war time. And US strike groups with dozens of f-18 can launch way more missiles at once than Ukrops.



    Do the Russians have the GLONASS military satellite system and Beriev A-50 aircraft ? Isos, the MiG-31 would have no problem fighting the surface fleet of France... Such a huge radar as the MiG-31 has is difficult to jam, especially compared to the small radar on the Rafale..
    In the event of a conflict between Russia and France, I would transfer all the Rafale planes in, let's say Germany.. bounce

    Read again what I said.

    Mig-31 and a50 can help around Russian mainland but certainly not far away. If the Slava goes to help an african or south american country it will be alone. There you have almost no chance to attack a target 1000km away.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3469
    Points : 3471
    Join date : 2014-11-26

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  ALAMO 02/11/22, 02:38 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Do the Russians have the GLONASS military satellite system and Beriev A-50 aircraft ? Isos, the MiG-31 would have no problem fighting the surface fleet of France... Such a huge radar as the MiG-31 has is difficult to jam, especially compared to the small radar on the Rafale..
    In the event of a conflict between Russia and France, I would transfer all the Rafale planes in, let's say Germany.. bounce

    IDK how about you, but I will switch my GPS nav for La Frogge worldwide navigation system, because I don't want to miss when Le Camembert space station will fly above my head, on its way to Marschall Foch Moon station.

    Rodion_Romanovic, Hole and Podlodka77 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34888
    Points : 35406
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB 02/11/22, 12:34 pm

    If they upgraded them with new S-300 PM2 and UKSK angled launchers, they would be wonderful ships.

    I would say an upgrade to their TOR self defence systems and an upgrade to their gatling guns and the radars that direct them and perhaps replace the old guns with new guns for testing... perhaps the new 152mm guns they are developing.

    Their Vulcan missiles are already land attack capable... should have used some up on Orc targets really, but the advantage of these ships are their size and endurance... their problem is that it is probably not cost effective to give them serious upgrades.

    Upgrade their EW defence equipment and their self defence systems, but it is better to save money for serial production of which ever Frigate design they like the best and then start on Destroyers.

    Upgrading the Udaloys has given them some more useful ships but I am not sure the few Slavas they have would be worth upgrading fully.

    The Kirovs make sense because they are already designed to launch missiles vertically... it was the first ship with vertical launch missile systems to enter service in fact.

    Now they are totally outdate as shown in Ukraine.

    Ahh bullshit. Russia Air Defence systems have proved to be very effective and minor upgrades to a ship that had 1970s level air defences should have been made, but there is no evidence at all the Orcs hit the Moskva with anti ship missiles... if they did what else have they sunk with anti ship missiles?

    If it sank the Moskva why didn't they keep using them and waste time and money with drones for the current attack on the Black Sea fleet?

    Unless they are full of shit.

    Problem is that moskva had broken CIWS and radars. Their tech level wasn't the problem

    If its defence systems were not working it would not have been sent to do the job it as doing... that is just ridiculous.

    It is Russia's mistake that such a ship was used for tasks for which it was not designed, because it is a cruiser for the open seas..

    What do you mean mistake?

    We don't even know what actually happened... any ship can hit a mine, and a ship using its radars to scan for enemy might have launched a rather old S-300F that chose this time to fail and fall back onto the deck and start a fire which spread and did enough damage to make the ship unsafe and it sank.

    More likely than the Orcs managed to hit a large ship with two anti ship missiles and then suddenly stopped using those successful missiles despite getting plenty from the US (Harpoon) as well.

    They have a track record for lying, and the facts don't match up with what they are saying now... it is a big ship but direct hits from two anti ship missiles with no blast damage visible and only fire damage suggests they are liars.

    P1000 as well as p700 and p500 are good but I would bet on aster family.

    They use the jammers and decoys like the Iskander does... an advantage of it being so big of course... how does Aster cope with jamming?

    They didn't develop Oniks and Zirkon because they wanted more beautiful missiles.

    Onyx introduced the more efficient ramjet propulsion, while Zircon has scramjet technology that makes it much more powerful, but even the Kh-32 would be a serious threat in the Black Sea to any ship... what AD system engages targets flying at 40km altitude?

    Also good luck finding a target 1000km away with a lonely Slava.

    It is looking for carrier groups... large collections of enormous bits of metal most satellites can see and they don't move fast enough for tracking to be a real problem... the presence of an AWACS plane scanning and communicating in the middle of the ocean gives a good indication and friendly submarines can pass on target data too.

    To use them at those ranges you need aircraft in the air.

    Or a friendly fishing boat or nearby sub or satellite flashing over every 90 minutes.

    And if the story about Ukrainian anti ship missiles destroying the Moskva is real then this ship didn't do what it was suppise to do, defend against slow low flying missiles and here it was war time. And US strike groups with dozens of f-18 can launch way more missiles at once than Ukrops.

    But if they sank the Moskva with anti ship missiles why didn't they build on their success by sinking the rest?

    Or anything else... or even fire a few anti ship missiles at the bridge they were so desperate to destroy.

    Sounds like BS to me.

    Moskva is at the bottom of the sea. US destroyers were attacked by Houti missiles, same class as ukro missiles, and they survived.

    Which also suggests the Moskva was not hit by anti ship missiles because those Houthi missiles just pissed all over western air defence systems in Saudi Arabia including Patriot and 35mm guns and various other bits of western rubbish.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they loose at least one Grigorovitch till the end of the war.

    I am sure you would celebrate the nazis murdering some Russian boys... peddling Orc propaganda does not do you any credit...

    Mig-31 and a50 can help around Russian mainland but certainly not far away. If the Slava goes to help an african or south american country it will be alone. There you have almost no chance to attack a target 1000km away.

    You do understand that the Russian navy keeps tabs on where the US carrier groups are at all times via a multitude of sources including satellites but not limited to them.

    IDK how about you, but I will switch my GPS nav for La Frogge worldwide navigation system, because I don't want to miss when Le Camembert space station will fly above my head, on its way to Marschall Foch Moon station.

    You are taking the piss, but it would be interesting to see a world where the EU had some balls and just told the US to **** off... the Europeans and the Russians could have created amazing things... but now Russia will just have to do those amazing things with China and India and South Africa and Brazil and the rest of the world... and the EU can pay more for energy.

    The west is far too colonial bound to ever want a free, fair, and prosperous world... wont say democratic because that is a dirty word now, and who am I to tell China what government they can or cannot have...

    Ironic that the west has now become a barrier to peace and real progress.

    Big_Gazza, Hole, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3469
    Points : 3471
    Join date : 2014-11-26

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  ALAMO 02/11/22, 12:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    You are taking the piss, but it would be interesting to see a world where the EU had some balls and just told the US to **** off... the Europeans and the Russians could have created amazing things... but now Russia will just have to do those amazing things with China and India and South Africa and Brazil and the rest of the world... and the EU can pay more for energy.
    The west is far too colonial bound to ever want a free, fair, and prosperous world... wont say democratic because that is a dirty word now, and who am I to tell China what government they can or cannot have...
    Ironic that the west has now become a barrier to peace and real progress.

    Oh, there is nothing I would like to see more my friend.
    This was the European Union I have voted for in a countrywide referendum 20 years ago.
    And that was something that threatened the Murica most of all. A truly united Europe, from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Took them 20 years to put the traitors and miserable zeros in charge, but they have finally succeeded in breaking the neck of Europe.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34888
    Points : 35406
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB 02/11/22, 01:05 pm

    Note I agree with what you are saying, but I don't like it.

    I would prefer the west practised what it preaches instead of being a colonial predator dedicated to staying in power... ironically the stuff Putin is talking about... non interference in other countries and just peace and trade is the sort of think Star Trek was all about, which for a while the US seemed interested in... until it became plain they are the Borg wanting to assimilate and consume and destroy.

    flamming_python and Big_Gazza like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 1674
    Points : 1678
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Podlodka77 18/11/22, 12:58 pm

    MIL.PRESS FLOT
    November 18, 2022 at 9:23 Subject: Navy


    The cruiser "Varyag" and "Admiral Tributs" returned from a record campaign


    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 14-11110
    Varyag

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 14-11111
    Admiral Tributs


    A solemn meeting was held in Vladivostok for a detachment of ships of the Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet) as part of the flagship of the fleet - the Guards Order of Nakhimov missile cruiser "Varyag", the large anti-submarine ship "Admiral Tributs" and the large sea tanker "Boris Butoma", who returned after successfully completing tasks in the distant sea zone.

    As reported on Friday, November 18, in the press service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, a rally was held at the pier, at which the commander of the Pacific Fleet, Admiral Sergei Avakyants, thanked the crews of the ships for the stamina and professionalism shown during the long voyage, and also noted the high level of maritime training of sailors -Pacifics. According to the established tradition, the commander handed roast pigs to the commanders of the ships.

    After the completion of the festive event, the crews of the ships marched solemnly and went to meet their loved ones.

    A detachment of Pacific Fleet ships left their base at the end of 2021. During the cruise, the ships took part in the joint Russian-Indian naval exercise PASSEX, the Russian-Chinese-Iranian exercise CHIRU-2022 and the Russian-Chinese exercise "Peaceful Sea-2022". In the Mediterranean, a detachment of Pacific Fleet ships completed all the tasks of combat service in the far sea zone, and, together with ships of other fleets of the Russian Navy, conducted a number of tactical exercises using carrier-based anti-submarine aviation.

    The military department noted that the crews of the ships set several records of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the duration of their stay in combat service. Honored achievements were submitted in the form of proposals to the Book of Records of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. During the cruise, the ships were at sea for more than 320 days and covered more than 63,000 nautical miles. The detachment twice passed through eight seas and two oceans.

    "Varyag" - missile cruiser of project 1164. Displacement of the ship - 11,380 tons, hull length - 186 meters, width - 20.8 meters. It is capable of speeds up to 34 knots. Crew - 510 people. The main strike armament of the cruiser is 16 P-1000 Vulkan missile launchers. In addition, it is equipped with artillery, air defense missiles, Osa-M air defense systems, torpedo tubes and rocket launchers for firing depth charges.

    "Admiral Tributs" - a large anti-submarine ship of project 1155 (code "Fregat"), has been in service since 1986. The total displacement of the BOD is 7480 tons, the length of the hull is 163 meters. The maximum speed is 29.5 knots. The ship is armed with eight launchers of the Kinzhal air defense system (64 missiles), two four-container launchers of Rastrub rocket-torpedo launchers, RBU-6000 rocket launchers, as well as AK-100 and AK-630M artillery mounts.

    https://flot.com/2022/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B424/

    GarryB, George1, ALAMO, Hole and lancelot like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 1674
    Points : 1678
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Podlodka77 30/11/22, 11:26 am

    RKR "Marshal Ustinov" leaves the Strait of Gibraltar into the Atlantic Ocean. 08/24/2022

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 30-11210

    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 30-11211

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, zardof, LMFS, Hole and Broski like this post


    Sponsored content


    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser - Page 23 Empty Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is 07/12/22, 10:47 am