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70 posters

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


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    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 34 Empty Re: Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 17, 2023 2:07 pm

    As far as I can see, unrealistic promises are being made again that will most certainly not come true.
    God grant that I am not right and that this comes true, but bearing in mind the past and all the great promises.....


    November 17, 01:39
    BDK "Vladimir Andreev" will be transferred to the Navy in 2024
    According to the agency's interlocutor, the ship is currently on the stocks

    MOSCOW, November 17. /TASS/. The large landing ship (LHD) of the modernized project 11711 "Vladimir Andreev", being built at the Yantar Baltic shipyard according to an adjusted technical design, will be launched and transferred to the Russian Navy next year. A source in the shipbuilding industry reported this to TASS.

    "Vladimir Andreev" is currently on the stocks; by the end of the year, a number of production tasks will have to be completed at the facility. The ship will be launched, begin sea trials and transferred to the Navy by the end of 2024,” the agency’s source said.

    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

    Earlier, Yantar General Director Ilya Samarin told TASS that the ships Vladimir Andreev and Vasily Trushin, laid down at the shipyard in April 2019, differ significantly from the BDK of the basic project 11711, so the construction schedules have been revised taking into account the work on their modernization.

    Two large landing craft of the basic project 11711 - "Ivan Gren" and "Petr Morgunov" - serve in the Russian Navy. According to preliminary information, the dimensions of ships built according to the adjusted technical design will increase, their displacement will increase to 7-8 thousand tons. Each of them is capable of transporting up to 13 main battle tanks or up to 36 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, as well as a battalion of marines.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19307955

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:29 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:As far as I can see, unrealistic promises are being made again that will most certainly not come true.
    God grant that I am not right and that this comes true, but bearing in mind the past and all the great promises.....
    Let's hope that by this day next year the ship will be commissioned.
    AMCXXL wrote:
    At the moment there are 6 planned, I suppose they will accompany the two helicopter carriers in the Pacific and Black Sea fleets

    The question is that the two original 11711 are nothing, it is necessary to replace them with larger ones
    Perhaps the best thing is to get rid of them later and sell them to India, as well as the three frigates type 11356 Admiral Grigorevich (Krivak V), so that India has a series of 6 in total

    The two original 11711 are much less capable, but that does not make them useless, especially since Russia does not have many young landing ships.

    The new 11711M are very promising, and remind me a bit of the Italian San Giorgio class.
    As I wrote in post 680 I believe Russia would need at least a couple of these ships (11711M) for each of their 4 main fleets.

    The only question is if Yantar could laid down and build more 11711M and some additional frigates at the same time...

    However that is not the end of the line for amphibious ships capabilities.    I believe that also something smaller i.e. the size of the old ropucha and alligator LST would be quite useful (also because many old ships needs to be replaced and there is no needs for their replacements to be all like Vladimir Andreev.

    I mean a LST around 4000 tons, half of the size of the Modified 11711M.

    The new 11711M, while having a smaller displacement, are probably even more useful than the old soviet project 1174 Ivan Rogov class (8000tons vs 14000 tons).

    Of course this smaller and cheaper LST is not the priority at the moment, and could be even built by a shipyard with no previous experience in military orders or one neglected for many years. As an example it could be the perfect first order for one of the shipyards in Nikolaev once it becomes again part of Russia.

    Note:

    28 Project 775 Ropucha class (polish name for toad) Landing ships were build between 1974 and 1991, all of them in Danzig (Gdansk, Poland). 16 of them remains in service.

    Project 1171 Tapir class (alligator for NATO) were instead built in Yantar. 14 of them were built between 1964 and 1975 and only 3 remain in service.

    P.S.
    There is no chance that the 3 russian 11356R frigates (Admirals Grigorovich, Essen and Makarov) will be sold to India before Russia has produced at least 2 dozen 22350.
    11356R are less capable than 22350 but are not bad ships and Russia does not have many active frigates and destroyers anyway.

    Again I hope that at the end of the SMO in Ukraine Russia will then give some more attention to the naval ship production. Also adding an additional production line for 22350 frigates (in Yantar, Kerch or in Nikolaev) will be fundamental.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 34 Empty Re: Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:31 am

    https://flot.com/2023/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8437/


    The new amphibious ships of the modernized Project 11711 will receive a  of attack helicopters
    December 6, 2023 at 8:35 am Topic: Navy

    Large landing ships "Vladimir Andreev" and "Vasily Trushin" of the modernized project 11711, being built at the Baltic shipyard "Yantar", will become carriers of a flight of the latest sea-based attack helicopters Ka-52M for fire support of landing operations. A source in the military-industrial complex reported this to TASS .


    “The new BDKs of the Vladimir Andreev type, unlike the ships of the basic project 11711, will carry on board not one or two vehicles, but a full-fledged link of the latest Ka-52M attack helicopters armed with Kh-35 anti-ship missiles. This dramatically increases the strike capabilities of the air group, which "will also be capable of covering an amphibious assault from the air. A group of such large landing craft with the Ka-52M will be able to provide fire support for a large landing operation," the agency's source said.


    According to him, the enlarged BDK hangar of the modernized Project 11711 is capable of accommodating a flight of up to four Ka-52M or five Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopters for searching and destroying submarines. At the same time, the basic design BDK can accommodate only one Ka-27 search and rescue helicopter or Ka-29 transport and combat helicopter.


    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.


    The large landing craft Vladimir Andreev and Vasily Trushin, laid down on the Yantar in April 2019, are planned to be handed over to the fleet in 2024 and 2025, respectively. They will have larger dimensions than the BDK of the basic project 11711: the displacement will increase to 7–8 thousand tons. Each of them is capable of transporting up to 13 main battle tanks or up to 36 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, as well as a battalion of marines.


    The modernized Ka-52M attack and reconnaissance helicopter received a new radar system with an active phased array antenna and a guided missile with an increased range. The Ka-52M main rotor blades are equipped with a more powerful heating element, which allows the helicopter to be operated in the entire temperature range, including arctic conditions. The helicopter is equipped with landing gear wheels with higher load-bearing capacity and wear resistance, as well as LED-based lighting equipment.


    The expanded range of weapons includes Ataka missiles (killing range - 4–6 km), Vikhr (8 km), Vikhr-M (10 km).
    Does anyone know if they will have hangars for all of the helicopters or will they be only parked on deck?

    Furthermore I have not read anything about eventual improved armament. Is there any news about any naval guns or better anti-aircraft defence like Pantsir?

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:51 am

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 34 001915
    You can see the hangar door in the after end of the superstructure.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:47 pm

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:53 pm

    George1 wrote:


    The increase in orders for the improved 11711M is a great news.

    It means at least two of these for each of the major fleets.

    I really like the concept of this ship, similar to the Italian San Giorgio class.

    I still believe they would need also a real replacement to alligator and Ropucha class to act as a workhorse as a "simple" landing ships as those ships are really old. 

    And Russia do not need only the supercool ships but also workhorses.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:00 am

    The workhorses like the Alligator and indeed mine countermeasures ships are often more important to start with.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:41 am

    The Project 11711M ships are the new workhorses.
    Today you (ships) need a helicopter to be more versatile.
    Multiple helicopters are even better.
    But those ships can still deliver a few thousand tons of stuff to harbors or beaches.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:51 am

    Only one of the 770 type had a heli pad, but it was the one for ... Yemen Laughing

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:40 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Only one of the 770 type had a heli pad, but it was the one for ... Yemen Laughing
    I believe that the role of the Polnocny class (Project 770) in soviet /russian service was replaced by the Zubr class hovercraft (Project 1232.2).

    Furthermore nowadays there are no Polnocny in service with the russian navy.

    By the way, i would really like to see zubr class again in production. The issue with the engine should be solved now.

    Hole wrote:The Project 11711M ships are the new workhorses.
    Today you (ships) need a helicopter to be more versatile.
    Multiple helicopters are even better.
    But those ships can still deliver a few thousand tons of stuff to harbors or beaches.

    Possibly, but do you believe that they can replace each of the Ropucha (project 775) and Alligator (project 1171) with one new 11711M? 
    It would mean many more ships than those planned.

    For that reason I was thinking about complementing the limited number of 11711M with landing ships with similar capabilities to Ropucha or Alligator (but designed with modern tank size mind).

    Sometimes "Quantity has a quality all its own"!

    By the way, capabilities wise I see the new 11711M (starting from Ivan rogov) more a successor/replacement for the project 1174 Nosorog (Rhino) (Ivan rogov class) than a successor of 1171.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 27, 2023 4:27 pm

    Possibly, but do you believe that they can replace each of the Ropucha (project 775) and Alligator (project 1171) with one new 11711M?
    It would mean many more ships than those planned.
    We are up to 9 from 2. More could be ordered down the line.
    On the other hand the job of the Alligators and Ropuchas was to land tanks and troops directly at the beach to protect the flanks of the advancing
    armies. Those missions are no longer state of the art.
    The new ships can not only transport vehicles, troops and goods with a second mission as minelayers, like the old ones, but can be used as
    ASW escorts and minehunting. Or for Anti-ship missions. thanks to their helicopters.


    Only one of the 770 type had a heli pad, but it was the one for ... Yemen
    The ship for Libya had a heli pad, too.

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