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Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
limb- Posts : 1550
Points : 1576
Join date : 2020-09-17
- Post n°651
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Why cant the entire udaloy fleet be converted in parallel? Not enough drydocks?
Podlodka77- Posts : 2589
Points : 2591
Join date : 2022-01-06
Location : Z
- Post n°652
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
It is certain that "Admiral Chabanenko" and "Admiral Vinogradov" will be modernized because those two ships are already on modernization..
On the other hand, "Admiral Levchenko" underwent an extensive overhaul, but not modernization, so the ship will serve for a few more years for sure.
The question remains whether or not "Admiral Panteleyev" (1991 PF), which is the youngest LAS project 1155 in the Pacific Fleet, will also be modernized.
It is my opinion that all other ships will be decommissioned in the next few years ie; Vice Admiral Kulakov (1981 NF), Severomorsk (1987 NF), Admiral Tributs (1985 PF).
When the number of project 22350 frigates starts to increase, the number of LAS project 1155 will start to decrease.
On the other hand, "Admiral Levchenko" underwent an extensive overhaul, but not modernization, so the ship will serve for a few more years for sure.
The question remains whether or not "Admiral Panteleyev" (1991 PF), which is the youngest LAS project 1155 in the Pacific Fleet, will also be modernized.
It is my opinion that all other ships will be decommissioned in the next few years ie; Vice Admiral Kulakov (1981 NF), Severomorsk (1987 NF), Admiral Tributs (1985 PF).
When the number of project 22350 frigates starts to increase, the number of LAS project 1155 will start to decrease.
GarryB, Rodion_Romanovic and zardof like this post
owais.usmani- Posts : 1839
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Join date : 2019-03-27
Age : 38
- Post n°653
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
zardof and limb like this post
Hole- Posts : 11154
Points : 11132
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
- Post n°654
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Two different ships.
Two different modernisations.
And the Chabanenko went to the yard earlier.
Two different modernisations.
And the Chabanenko went to the yard earlier.
GarryB, Big_Gazza and LMFS like this post
GarryB- Posts : 40675
Points : 41177
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°655
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Basing progress guestimate on external appearance?
Very rigorous and scientific.
Shall we flip a coin to determine the punishment?
Very rigorous and scientific.
Shall we flip a coin to determine the punishment?
flamming_python, Big_Gazza, T-47 and Hole like this post
owais.usmani dislikes this post
Krepost- Posts : 787
Points : 789
Join date : 2021-12-08
- Post n°656
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Big_Gazza, zardof, Ned86, BliTTzZ, LMFS, Hole and lancelot like this post
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4943
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Join date : 2014-08-25
Location : Melbourne, Australia
- Post n°657
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
George1, BliTTzZ, lancelot, Mir, Krepost and Podlodka77 like this post
Krepost- Posts : 787
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Join date : 2021-12-08
- Post n°658
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
BliTTzZ, LMFS, Hole, lancelot and TMA1 like this post
TMA1- Posts : 1195
Points : 1193
Join date : 2020-11-30
- Post n°659
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
I've heard these ships are pretty popular as anti sub vessels. Even China uses their upgraded model for this but I think the 054b and later corvette anti sub models are finally overtaking them in capability. Is this somewhat true?
ALAMO- Posts : 7599
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Join date : 2014-11-25
- Post n°660
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
You are mixing up projects.
China never operated 1155.
They have 4 pcs of 956E destroyers, called Hangzhou class.
Which was not antisubmarine unit but a smaller seas flotilla flagman dedicated to supporting landing operations.
China never operated 1155.
They have 4 pcs of 956E destroyers, called Hangzhou class.
Which was not antisubmarine unit but a smaller seas flotilla flagman dedicated to supporting landing operations.
GarryB, lancelot, TMA1 and Broski like this post
Vympel- Posts : 147
Points : 151
Join date : 2013-01-30
- Post n°661
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Krepost wrote:More pictures of the real deal:
What is this antenna for?
Mir- Posts : 3865
Points : 3863
Join date : 2021-06-10
- Post n°662
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
ALAMO wrote:You are mixing up projects.
China never operated 1155.
They have 4 pcs of 956E destroyers, called Hangzhou class.
Which was not antisubmarine unit but a smaller seas flotilla flagman dedicated to supporting landing operations.
Not so fast bro!
The Chinese type 55 seems to have taken a leaf from the Pr.21956 - itself a stealthy Udaloy redesign
ALAMO- Posts : 7599
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Join date : 2014-11-25
- Post n°663
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Well, the Chinese closed to the SU in shipbuilding after sanctions followed Tienanmen.
They have made a turn toward Russian shipbuilding, paying for two unfinished 956s - No 18. and 19.
About the same time, they acquired 877 subs as well.
Chinese specialists started to be trained in the Russian naval facilities, and universities - someone had to operate and repair those ships, which was a part of the plan.
If you are asking me, Type 55 resembles 1136 on steroids
As far as I do consider some close technical connections of both industries reaching the early 90s, external shape means perfectly nothing.
Modernized Kinzhal if I am not mistaken.
They have made a turn toward Russian shipbuilding, paying for two unfinished 956s - No 18. and 19.
About the same time, they acquired 877 subs as well.
Chinese specialists started to be trained in the Russian naval facilities, and universities - someone had to operate and repair those ships, which was a part of the plan.
If you are asking me, Type 55 resembles 1136 on steroids
As far as I do consider some close technical connections of both industries reaching the early 90s, external shape means perfectly nothing.
Vympel wrote:
What is this antenna for?
Modernized Kinzhal if I am not mistaken.
Vympel likes this post
TMA1- Posts : 1195
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Join date : 2020-11-30
- Post n°664
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Pshh I knew that but it is important to test the skill of forum users here. Yeah...
GarryB likes this post
GarryB- Posts : 40675
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°665
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
I would guess the new corvettes pack very good systems and a helicopter in a smaller package and their capabilities would be better but the Udaloy being the bigger vessel could be upgraded with the equipment fitted to the corvettes but with bigger antenna and probably higher power capacity.
It would be interesting because the upgrade would make the older ship less of a bargain but also very much more capable, but having smaller lighter cheaper to operate ships would be useful too because quality is good but numbers are important as well.
Upgrading what you have is normal and good for the navy but their new udaloy size ships (frigates and destroyers) will likely be fully multirole and more capable in each role than previous custom designed vessels.
It would be interesting because the upgrade would make the older ship less of a bargain but also very much more capable, but having smaller lighter cheaper to operate ships would be useful too because quality is good but numbers are important as well.
Upgrading what you have is normal and good for the navy but their new udaloy size ships (frigates and destroyers) will likely be fully multirole and more capable in each role than previous custom designed vessels.
Isos- Posts : 11617
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Join date : 2015-11-06
- Post n°666
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Udaloy is a beast in anti sub warfare. With UKSK and zirkon it becomes a very dangerous destroyer for any ship.
I always thought they should have just bought project 21956 as the backbone of their navy. It is based on Udaloy which at the time was master by shipyards. By now they would have had an upgraded version with 4 phased arraw radar rather than those moving radars and probably 32 UKSK instead of 16 and fixed VLS for S-400.
I always thought they should have just bought project 21956 as the backbone of their navy. It is based on Udaloy which at the time was master by shipyards. By now they would have had an upgraded version with 4 phased arraw radar rather than those moving radars and probably 32 UKSK instead of 16 and fixed VLS for S-400.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7599
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Join date : 2014-11-25
- Post n°667
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
The real advantage of 1155 is its engines.
956 class boilers required careful maintenance which was impossible in the 90s.
This is why the Russkie physically used those ships to the sorrowful end, cannibalizing them till the very end.
It is not that the construction was shitty or something - Chinese proved that by using those ships for almost 30 years.
1155 was much more resistant, which is why now we have a bunch of those suitable for modernization.
956 class boilers required careful maintenance which was impossible in the 90s.
This is why the Russkie physically used those ships to the sorrowful end, cannibalizing them till the very end.
It is not that the construction was shitty or something - Chinese proved that by using those ships for almost 30 years.
1155 was much more resistant, which is why now we have a bunch of those suitable for modernization.
PhSt- Posts : 1501
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Join date : 2019-04-02
Location : Canada
- Post n°668
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
I most likely asked this question before, but can someone tell me what is the maximum ship displacement/ size that the White Sea–Baltic Canal can accommodate?
Since the Baltic Sea is swarming with NATzO vermins, Russian vessels in the area might be a little exposed to enemy threats. And the concern also extends to Shipyards in the region, particularly the ones located in St. Petersburg.
I asked the question because it looks like Russia's latest surface ship, the Admiral Gorshkov-class, is built in the Severnaya Verf shipyard, if NATzO plays some stupid tricks in the Baltic sea, there is a risk that these ships might get trapped in there with no way out, BUT if the Gorshkovs can go through the WS-B Canal then it takes care of the problem.
Russia has Two other big shipyards, Sevmash in Severodvinsk (although this Shipyard seems to specialize in submarine construction), and the Zvezda Shipyard in Vladivostok, this shipyard is supposed to build large surface vessels but I don't know if the planned expansion (conceived in 2010) has come into fruition or if it has been Sabotaged again by NATzO sponsored fifth column traitors.
Since the Baltic Sea is swarming with NATzO vermins, Russian vessels in the area might be a little exposed to enemy threats. And the concern also extends to Shipyards in the region, particularly the ones located in St. Petersburg.
I asked the question because it looks like Russia's latest surface ship, the Admiral Gorshkov-class, is built in the Severnaya Verf shipyard, if NATzO plays some stupid tricks in the Baltic sea, there is a risk that these ships might get trapped in there with no way out, BUT if the Gorshkovs can go through the WS-B Canal then it takes care of the problem.
Russia has Two other big shipyards, Sevmash in Severodvinsk (although this Shipyard seems to specialize in submarine construction), and the Zvezda Shipyard in Vladivostok, this shipyard is supposed to build large surface vessels but I don't know if the planned expansion (conceived in 2010) has come into fruition or if it has been Sabotaged again by NATzO sponsored fifth column traitors.
lancelot likes this post
lancelot- Posts : 3190
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Join date : 2020-10-18
- Post n°669
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
I doubt you could traverse a frigate through these.PhSt wrote:I most likely asked this question before, but can someone tell me what is the maximum ship displacement/ size that the White Sea–Baltic Canal can accommodate?
Since the Baltic Sea is swarming with NATzO vermins, Russian vessels in the area might be a little exposed to enemy threats. And the concern also extends to Shipyards in the region, particularly the ones located in St. Petersburg.
I asked the question because it looks like Russia's latest surface ship, the Admiral Gorshkov-class, is built in the Severnaya Verf shipyard, if NATzO plays some stupid tricks in the Baltic sea, there is a risk that these ships might get trapped in there with no way out, BUT if the Gorshkovs can go through the WS-B Canal then it takes care of the problem.
There are several more large shipyards which can build frigates. Yantar in Kaliningrad, Zalyv in Crimea, Amur in the Far East.PhSt wrote:Russia has Two other big shipyards, Sevmash in Severodvinsk (although this Shipyard seems to specialize in submarine construction), and the Zvezda Shipyard in Vladivostok, this shipyard is supposed to build large surface vessels
Amur shipyard in the Far East has been building a floating dock. And they are supposed to be building frigates afterwards.
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Mir- Posts : 3865
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Join date : 2021-06-10
- Post n°670
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
@ PhSt
Russia will have to stand it's ground in the Baltic - no matter what. At the same time it will be no different anywhere else for the Russians.
If the shit hits the fan in the Baltic Russia will probably be able to capture the Baltic states very quickly - securing the Kaliningrad enclave in the process.
I doubt NATzo will go nuclear if that happens. The Baltics will suffer the same fate as the Poles during WWII - lots of empty promises but no real help at all.
Hypersonic missiles will be a major threat to all NATzo shipping anywhere in the world for quite some time to come - never mind in the Baltic Sea.
Russia will have to stand it's ground in the Baltic - no matter what. At the same time it will be no different anywhere else for the Russians.
If the shit hits the fan in the Baltic Russia will probably be able to capture the Baltic states very quickly - securing the Kaliningrad enclave in the process.
I doubt NATzo will go nuclear if that happens. The Baltics will suffer the same fate as the Poles during WWII - lots of empty promises but no real help at all.
Hypersonic missiles will be a major threat to all NATzo shipping anywhere in the world for quite some time to come - never mind in the Baltic Sea.
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Isos- Posts : 11617
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Join date : 2015-11-06
- Post n°671
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
ALAMO wrote:The real advantage of 1155 is its engines.
956 class boilers required careful maintenance which was impossible in the 90s.
This is why the Russkie physically used those ships to the sorrowful end, cannibalizing them till the very end.
It is not that the construction was shitty or something - Chinese proved that by using those ships for almost 30 years.
1155 was much more resistant, which is why now we have a bunch of those suitable for modernization.
Last two Chinese ones were built in the 00s. They needed only 6 years between laid down and commissionning. Quite impressive.
The advantage of Sovs is that they have 2 big guns that can support landings on Taiwan. That's why they upgraded them and kept them in service.
Russian ones are old and rusty. It would be useless to upgrade them. Gorshkovs are much better designed anyway.
PapaDragon likes this post
Arrow- Posts : 3578
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- Post n°672
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Russian ones are old and rusty. It would be useless to upgrade them. Gorshkovs are much better designed anyway. wrote:
Project 22350 the best If only Gorshkovs had been built faster. Almost 20 years have passed since the laying of the first unit and only the fourth unit is going on trials.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13510
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- Post n°673
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
Arrow wrote:
Project 22350 the best If only Gorshkovs had been built faster. Almost 20 years have passed since the laying of the first unit and only the fourth unit is going on trials.
That's the problem with Navy fúcking up not with Gorshkov design
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Mir- Posts : 3865
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Join date : 2021-06-10
- Post n°674
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
I would not say that it's the navy's fault - the main reason for the slow building program was mainly due to unavailability of turbines from the Ukraine - and then the eventual domestic development of a replacement engine. But yeah Russian shipbuilding should be taken up a notch to get more large surface ships into the water - like yesterday.
The future surface fleet should be based around the larger Pr. 22350M - which is practically a destroyer. The first should be laid down this year and currently there are 12 planned. More should be built.
The future surface fleet should be based around the larger Pr. 22350M - which is practically a destroyer. The first should be laid down this year and currently there are 12 planned. More should be built.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2667
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- Post n°675
Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers
In addition Kherson shipyard (Russian territory, currently occupied by 404) was big enough to build quite large civilian ships (dry cargo ships, tankers, ice-breakers, container-ships, drilling vessels, and floating dry docks) up to 40000 tons displacement. Eventually it could even be used to build military ships (even if its civil use is also very important).lancelot wrote: There are several more large shipyards which can build frigates. Yantar in Kaliningrad, Zalyv in Crimea, Amur in the Far East.
Amur shipyard in the Far East has been building a floating dock. And they are supposed to be building frigates afterwards.
And let's not forget Nikolaev. It is very unlikely that the war in Ukraine will finish without at least returning Odessa and Nikolaev to Russia.
There are three big shipyards to be completely rebuilt there:
communara61 (nikolaev north), which used to build Kara and Slava class destroyers), now in a very derelict state
Black sea shipyard (half destroyed by 404 to build there a grain terminal, and then probably hit during the war)
And Okean shipyard (very large civilian shipyard).
In addition there are probably good locations in Odessa to build other shipyards, if needed (instead of concentrating everything in Sankt Petersburg area).
I am sure these shipyards would be very useful for Russia, even if they would need to invest a lot of money to rebuild them (as they have been rebuilt before after the original Nazi occupied Novorussia).
As an example former communara 61 shipyard (nikolaev north) could be assigned for frigates (and/or destroyers/cruisers) production after being rebuilt.
Furthermore if needed Russia could rebuild Zorya mashproekt in Nikolaev (I believe it has been destroyed in the war) and make it a subsidiary of Saturn and Zvezda, to have an additional place to build naval gas turbines and reductor gears.