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    BMP-3 in Russian Army

    limb
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    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  limb Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:31 am

    Again. Zero reliable sources, and you're a notoriously poor contributor, so discard.

    This is a reliable source, more reliable than your bitching

    https://topwar.ru/208073-pravka-bmp-2m-s-modulem-berezhok-ili-kak-my-doshli-do-zhizni-takoj.html

    Only small batches of BMP-1AM have been sent to the Ru AF.

    https://topwar.ru/191892-bmp-1am-basurmanin-postupaet-v-vojska.html

    How about you show sources that at least 70% of BMP-1s and BMP-2s are upgraded to BMP-1AM and BMp-2M standard?
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:43 am

    Anyone can contribute to topwar. Just as wikipedia is not a source, it too, is not a source.

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    limb
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    Post  limb Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:46 am

    Topwar is extremely reliable. On the level of bmpd, rybar, paralay etc.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:12 am

    yeah, but coming from you that is one massive anti-rating. Razz

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:33 am

    Topwar is a site of defeatist communists.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:51 pm

    @limb
    I can tell that you read that loser Skomorokhov too much. While he makes some valid points, most of it is easily debunked and outright idiotic.
    And yes, anyone can contribute to topwar.
    marcellogo
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    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:26 am

    Limb wrote:How about you show sources that at least 70% of BMP-1s and BMP-2s are upgraded to BMP-1AM and BMp-2M standard?

    BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys, BMP-1AM despite the name is more a BTR-82A on tracks than an IFV: it could however be IMHO something absolutely essential for increase the effectiveness of BMP-2 equipped Btgs quickly IF and WHEN they (I mean the Stavka) will finally decide to increase the manpower of motostrelci regiments instead of keeping increasing artillery pieces and AD systems like it was in the case of the failed Serdyukov's brigade reforms.
    A company more (or better a BMP-1AM added to any platoon) would resolve most of actual shortcomings of such equipped formations.
    In the ones equipped with BMP-3, problem doesn't just happen given that standard model has already enough internal spaces (but maybe adding a Dragun model with larger rear doors could still be useful).

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    Post  diabetus Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:51 am

    "BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys,"

    Except in situational awareness, where it's not in the same solar system as the Bradley.

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:02 am

    9/10 times these pieces of scrap are shelled to bits before they can even see a glimpse of Russian armor.
    But at least the crew had a nice view of their final resting place. Razz

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:37 pm

    Diabetus wrote:"BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys,"

    Except in situational awareness, where it's not in the same solar system as the Bradley.

    Maybe of the Bradley M2A3 that has an independent commander's view with thermal camera.
    The ones they are sending are a precedent version.
    And no, the american themselves are not fully satisfied with such version as the increase in weight added was so high, it wore off transmission and impeded mobility, so they are now introducing a successive version, the M2A4 with a modified drivetrain,
    And of such version they have an handful even for themselves, way less than updated version of russian BMP.

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    Post  limb Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:53 pm

    Vast majority of BMP-2s are not upgraded. Unlike with the T-72B3 or T-80BVM upgrades, where we have access to OFFICIAL CONTRACTs claiming hundreds of tanks, we only have 1 or 2 BMP-2Mofficial upgrade contracts of less than 20 vehicles each. The unupgraded BMP-2, unlike the M2A2 ODS, lacks any thermal vision device or BMS. Nothing, nada, zilch. Just a shitty 1970s NVD and IR searchlight. The BMP-2M corrects this, with an excellent domestis thermal imager superior to all bradley thermals, but as I said earlier, BMP-2 havent been massively upgraded like russian tanks and have only started to be upgraded very recently, only since 2018, unlike with the T-72B.


    Additionally, the M2A2 ODS has additional applique armor that protects against 12.7, 14.5mm and maybe 30mm full bore AP-T from 1500km+. The BMP-2, even with the BMP-2D applique armor, only has 40mm equivalent RHA from the front and 15-25mm RHA from the sides. The 25mm APFSDS penetrates around 50mm from 1500m. BMP-2s almost never use 30mm APDS rounds.

    Im confident that the M2A2 ODS will be easily destroyed in the ukraine by AT assets and that its inferior to the BMP-2M and BMP-3 in most metrics, but stop retending like its inferior to the BMP-2 model 1980, BMP-2D, or BMP-2 model 1986.
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    Post  Azi Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:06 pm

    The role of the M2 Bradley and all vehicles of BMP series are bit different. The M2 was designed as a heavy IFV and BMP can be called light. The M2 was from the beginning designed with a TOW system, so good optics are mandatory. The now upgraded BMPs are better with their turrets.

    The big advantage of the BMP in 80ies was...very light, low silhouette and incredible numbers. And that's a good concept! What's the use of sophisticated tanks if you only have a few of them? Of course, the conversion takes a little time and the focus is NOW on mbt. In addition, it is already planned to switch to a completely new series of vehicles...Kurganets and Bumerangs.

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:19 pm

    Limb wrote:Im confident that the M2A2 ODS will be easily destroyed in the ukraine by AT assets and that its inferior to the BMP-2M and BMP-3 in most metrics, but stop retending like its inferior to the BMP-2 model 1980, BMP-2D, or BMP-2 model 1986.

    Well Limb, problem solved as I have never said anything like so: it's more than a match doesn't infact means "is superior in any metrics to...".

    BMP-2 is a good combat machine superior to the average IFV and APC in dotation of AFU and a batch of Bradleys wouldn't change the balance.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:40 am

    Not to mention that a Bradley in a hand full of actual vehicles sprinkled across an enormous front line without air support and without artillery support against an enemy that has air power and artillery support as well as suicide drones in abundance... not to mention its amazing fire power results in an enormous concentration of ammo and fuel in a vehicle that is not amazingly well armoured... protection from 30mm cannon fire means nothing when enemy troops carry around RPGs that will gut it like a fish... and with all that ammo to burn...

    That is assuming they can keep them running in the prevailing weather conditions that will be sub zero.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:45 am

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2246
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2248
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2247


    Kurganmashzavod is cranking these out like cakes

    If uralvagonzavod is working nonstop and itself produces many t90

    Imagine how many bmp3 are rolling off the line

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2250
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2249

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    Post  Regular Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:28 am

    I don’t think it will take them long to replenish BMP-3 losses. Before all of this, production of BMP-3s was very slow and there are no reserves of this vehicle to dip into.

    Anyways, comparing Bradley to Russian BMPs is pointless, maybe when us finally decides to send 500 of them, but chances are, those 50 Bradleys will be kept behind the lines as Ukraine still has IFVs to spare.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:38 am

    Part of my job while I served was to study Soviet and Russian equipment. And what was very clear despite the initial concept of for example IFV the west and Soviets/Russians had a different idea what was a priority. The west wanted heavier/thicker armour IFV while Soviets went for firepower and mobility and less weight. The Soviets fired these BMP 1&2 at a rapid pace. And what I can tell you nobody apart from the anti-tank guys bad mouthed them. The anti-tank guys only talked about blowing things up and where best to hit, of course a IFV wasn't supposed to be protected against Milan or TOW but to the anti-tanks they did think like that in a way you can't blame them. But the rest of us knew what it was designed for and realised the dangers it posed against infantry and light armour. What always amazed us was how the Soviets had true amphibious vehicles (ones that actually float) while our definition of amphibious vehicles was being able to ford 1m+ lol.

    The Russians seem to be happy to use up old stock while replacing with new BMP-3 and upgraded BMP-2. I would imagine the upgraded BMP-2 versions are a stop gap and will eventually be put in storage once Russia starts receiving Kurganets.

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