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    BMP-3 in Russian Army

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    limb


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    Post  limb Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:31 am

    Again. Zero reliable sources, and you're a notoriously poor contributor, so discard.

    This is a reliable source, more reliable than your bitching

    https://topwar.ru/208073-pravka-bmp-2m-s-modulem-berezhok-ili-kak-my-doshli-do-zhizni-takoj.html

    Only small batches of BMP-1AM have been sent to the Ru AF.

    https://topwar.ru/191892-bmp-1am-basurmanin-postupaet-v-vojska.html

    How about you show sources that at least 70% of BMP-1s and BMP-2s are upgraded to BMP-1AM and BMp-2M standard?
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:43 am

    Anyone can contribute to topwar. Just as wikipedia is not a source, it too, is not a source.

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    limb


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    Post  limb Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 am

    Topwar is extremely reliable. On the level of bmpd, rybar, paralay etc.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:12 am

    yeah, but coming from you that is one massive anti-rating. Razz

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:33 pm

    Topwar is a site of defeatist communists.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:51 pm

    @limb
    I can tell that you read that loser Skomorokhov too much. While he makes some valid points, most of it is easily debunked and outright idiotic.
    And yes, anyone can contribute to topwar.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:26 am

    Limb wrote:How about you show sources that at least 70% of BMP-1s and BMP-2s are upgraded to BMP-1AM and BMp-2M standard?

    BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys, BMP-1AM despite the name is more a BTR-82A on tracks than an IFV: it could however be IMHO something absolutely essential for increase the effectiveness of BMP-2 equipped Btgs quickly IF and WHEN they (I mean the Stavka) will finally decide to increase the manpower of motostrelci regiments instead of keeping increasing artillery pieces and AD systems like it was in the case of the failed Serdyukov's brigade reforms.
    A company more (or better a BMP-1AM added to any platoon) would resolve most of actual shortcomings of such equipped formations.
    In the ones equipped with BMP-3, problem doesn't just happen given that standard model has already enough internal spaces (but maybe adding a Dragun model with larger rear doors could still be useful).

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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:51 am

    "BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys,"

    Except in situational awareness, where it's not in the same solar system as the Bradley.

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:02 am

    9/10 times these pieces of scrap are shelled to bits before they can even see a glimpse of Russian armor.
    But at least the crew had a nice view of their final resting place. Razz

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:37 pm

    Diabetus wrote:"BMP-2 even in basic version is a better IFV than anything Ukraine has and would be a match even for Marder AND Bradleys,"

    Except in situational awareness, where it's not in the same solar system as the Bradley.

    Maybe of the Bradley M2A3 that has an independent commander's view with thermal camera.
    The ones they are sending are a precedent version.
    And no, the american themselves are not fully satisfied with such version as the increase in weight added was so high, it wore off transmission and impeded mobility, so they are now introducing a successive version, the M2A4 with a modified drivetrain,
    And of such version they have an handful even for themselves, way less than updated version of russian BMP.

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    Post  limb Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:53 pm

    Vast majority of BMP-2s are not upgraded. Unlike with the T-72B3 or T-80BVM upgrades, where we have access to OFFICIAL CONTRACTs claiming hundreds of tanks, we only have 1 or 2 BMP-2Mofficial upgrade contracts of less than 20 vehicles each. The unupgraded BMP-2, unlike the M2A2 ODS, lacks any thermal vision device or BMS. Nothing, nada, zilch. Just a shitty 1970s NVD and IR searchlight. The BMP-2M corrects this, with an excellent domestis thermal imager superior to all bradley thermals, but as I said earlier, BMP-2 havent been massively upgraded like russian tanks and have only started to be upgraded very recently, only since 2018, unlike with the T-72B.


    Additionally, the M2A2 ODS has additional applique armor that protects against 12.7, 14.5mm and maybe 30mm full bore AP-T from 1500km+. The BMP-2, even with the BMP-2D applique armor, only has 40mm equivalent RHA from the front and 15-25mm RHA from the sides. The 25mm APFSDS penetrates around 50mm from 1500m. BMP-2s almost never use 30mm APDS rounds.

    Im confident that the M2A2 ODS will be easily destroyed in the ukraine by AT assets and that its inferior to the BMP-2M and BMP-3 in most metrics, but stop retending like its inferior to the BMP-2 model 1980, BMP-2D, or BMP-2 model 1986.
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    Post  Azi Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:06 pm

    The role of the M2 Bradley and all vehicles of BMP series are bit different. The M2 was designed as a heavy IFV and BMP can be called light. The M2 was from the beginning designed with a TOW system, so good optics are mandatory. The now upgraded BMPs are better with their turrets.

    The big advantage of the BMP in 80ies was...very light, low silhouette and incredible numbers. And that's a good concept! What's the use of sophisticated tanks if you only have a few of them? Of course, the conversion takes a little time and the focus is NOW on mbt. In addition, it is already planned to switch to a completely new series of vehicles...Kurganets and Bumerangs.

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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:19 pm

    Limb wrote:Im confident that the M2A2 ODS will be easily destroyed in the ukraine by AT assets and that its inferior to the BMP-2M and BMP-3 in most metrics, but stop retending like its inferior to the BMP-2 model 1980, BMP-2D, or BMP-2 model 1986.

    Well Limb, problem solved as I have never said anything like so: it's more than a match doesn't infact means "is superior in any metrics to...".

    BMP-2 is a good combat machine superior to the average IFV and APC in dotation of AFU and a batch of Bradleys wouldn't change the balance.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:40 am

    Not to mention that a Bradley in a hand full of actual vehicles sprinkled across an enormous front line without air support and without artillery support against an enemy that has air power and artillery support as well as suicide drones in abundance... not to mention its amazing fire power results in an enormous concentration of ammo and fuel in a vehicle that is not amazingly well armoured... protection from 30mm cannon fire means nothing when enemy troops carry around RPGs that will gut it like a fish... and with all that ammo to burn...

    That is assuming they can keep them running in the prevailing weather conditions that will be sub zero.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:45 am

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2246
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2248
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2247


    Kurganmashzavod is cranking these out like cakes

    If uralvagonzavod is working nonstop and itself produces many t90

    Imagine how many bmp3 are rolling off the line

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2250
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Img_2249

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    Post  Regular Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:28 pm

    I don’t think it will take them long to replenish BMP-3 losses. Before all of this, production of BMP-3s was very slow and there are no reserves of this vehicle to dip into.

    Anyways, comparing Bradley to Russian BMPs is pointless, maybe when us finally decides to send 500 of them, but chances are, those 50 Bradleys will be kept behind the lines as Ukraine still has IFVs to spare.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:38 pm

    Part of my job while I served was to study Soviet and Russian equipment. And what was very clear despite the initial concept of for example IFV the west and Soviets/Russians had a different idea what was a priority. The west wanted heavier/thicker armour IFV while Soviets went for firepower and mobility and less weight. The Soviets fired these BMP 1&2 at a rapid pace. And what I can tell you nobody apart from the anti-tank guys bad mouthed them. The anti-tank guys only talked about blowing things up and where best to hit, of course a IFV wasn't supposed to be protected against Milan or TOW but to the anti-tanks they did think like that in a way you can't blame them. But the rest of us knew what it was designed for and realised the dangers it posed against infantry and light armour. What always amazed us was how the Soviets had true amphibious vehicles (ones that actually float) while our definition of amphibious vehicles was being able to ford 1m+ lol.

    The Russians seem to be happy to use up old stock while replacing with new BMP-3 and upgraded BMP-2. I would imagine the upgraded BMP-2 versions are a stop gap and will eventually be put in storage once Russia starts receiving Kurganets.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:20 pm

    Technodynamika presented new 3UOF23 round for 30mm cannons.
    It is a programmable airburst round and seems to be the smallest caliber produced by anyone.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 Zrzut_55
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 16 06e29310

    It has an electronic time fuze in the back of the round, programmed by a laser while leaving the barrel.

    The first public appearance was done at ARMY2022 show, so this is the first time when presented abroad, ready for delivery.
    Quite impressive, and a good point considering that IDEX host owns some 500 pcs of BMP-3s.

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    Post  lancelot Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:36 pm

    Russia has been able to produce like 200 BMP-3 class vehicles a year. Roughly half for own use and half for export. There is nothing slow about the production of BMP-3 in this factory.
    As of late they have been busy building vehicles for the VDV namely the BMD-4M. They produced hundreds of these vehicles for the VDV.
    This was the real reason for lack of construction of BMP-3. They were busy with BMD-4M order of hundreds of vehicles.

    This factory has been highly successful in as far as production of BMP-3 and its derived vehicles. Where they failed was into fixing the issues with the Kurganets-25 design and putting it into production. The manager of the factory was accused of embezzlement of the funds which were supposed to be used to put Kurganets into production.


    Last edited by lancelot on Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:51 pm

    In the last 25 years, Russia delivered about 1000 pcs of 3s solely for export.
    Those are numbers not seen by any other producer.
    The whole production of more or less equivalent German Puma IFV totals 300 pcs.
    So calling the production slow is a joke.
    Not to mention, that simultaneous production of BMP-2 was running.

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 05, 2023 11:42 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Technodynamika presented new 3UOF23 round for 30mm cannons.
    It is a programmable airburst round and seems to be the smallest caliber produced by anyone.

    It has an electronic time fuze in the back of the round, programmed by a laser while leaving the barrel.

    The first public appearance was done at ARMY2022 show, so this is the first time when presented abroad, ready for delivery.
    Quite impressive, and a good point considering that IDEX host owns some 500 pcs of BMP-3s.

    I wonder if it can do a random range. for example 800-900m. Then just hose them down.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat May 06, 2023 11:17 am

    Probably not. These shells won't be cheap so gunners would have to employ more conservative firing modes. The 30 mm guns typically have dual feed so you can probably switch to cheaper nonprogrammable shells for suppression.
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 06, 2023 1:53 pm

    With the Terminator each gun is dual feed and so you would have one feed on both guns with generic HE ammo you could fire both together for effect on ground targets, but for the other feed on each gun you could use rounds that don't require a very high rate of fire... so for one feed on one gun you could have APFSDS rounds to penetrate hard targets, and for the spare feed on the other gun some air burst shells would be good for engaging targets behind front cover or air targets like small drones.

    That would allow HE Frag generic rounds to be fired by both guns at ground targets to really rip things up as a fire power vehicle, but if enemy armour or enemy drones appear you can switch feed and fire a single barrel at them with the more expensive but also more effective ammo.

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that they changed from laser command detonation to radio command detonation so it was not effected by smoke and dust or rain or snow on the battlefield.

    Command detonation would allow the complex high precision tracking of target and shell to be done from the vehicle so it can be expensive but reused over and over without being destroyed with every shot like an advanced fuse or timing system in the round.

    I thought it made better sense.
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    Post  ALAMO Sat May 06, 2023 2:21 pm

    lyle6 wrote:Probably not. These shells won't be cheap so gunners would have to employ more conservative firing modes. The 30 mm guns typically have dual feed so you can probably switch to cheaper nonprogrammable shells for suppression.

    Not sure if we are getting the meaning of his question scratch

    Each ammo piece is preprogrammed while leaving the barrel. So yes, every one can be set for a detonation range. No idea if it works for a serial fire, like switching each round for a different distance. But you can always cease to fire, set a different data, and reload.

    @Garry,
    This thing does not need a radio/laser signal to detonate.
    It has a time fuze, set by laser on board a carrier/in a barrel.
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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 06, 2023 4:36 pm

    Kurganmashzavod, part of the Rostec State Corporation's High-Precision Complexes holding, has shipped a new batch of BMP-3 as part of the state defense order. For the first quarter of this year, the company delivered infantry fighting vehicles as much as for the whole of 2019.
    https://rostec.ru/news/rostekh-peredal-minoborony-rf-novuyu-partiyu-bmp-3/

    *According to open statistics, 200 BMP-3s were produced in 2018-2019 and 97 BMP-3s removed from storage were repaired

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