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    Iran Air Defense Systems

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:30 am

    The issue with the big guns like the KS-19 is that such a large heavy weapon would have serious problems tracking a target in close and at longer ranges the problems of hitting a free flying target are compounded by time.

    Think of it as a sniper... shooting a person to kill them from 100m should be quite straight forward... the distance they can move between when you fire the gun and when the bullet strikes the target will be incredibly short so there are very few things the target could do to evade getting hit... especially if they don't know the bullet is coming.

    Now think of that same sniper shooting a target 20km away... with a projectile flight time measured in minutes the obvious problem for the sniper is to anticipate where the target will be in however many seconds his projectile will be in flight towards the target... once you fire even a slight speed up or slow down of the target could create an enormous miss... if the target is walking along a path you might be able to anticipate his position x number of seconds later if he is walking at a steady pace... but what if he hears or sees something that attracts his attention and he stops or slows down or speeds up... for a flying object the problems are multiplied with an added dimension of altitude... it can speed up or slow down or turn left or turn right or climb or descend but it can also do any combination of any or all of those...

    The solution is an air burst... predict an intercept point and then set the round to explode there sending a shower of fragments over an enormous area to compensate for any deviation in flight... it would be relatively cheap to implement... certainly cheaper than a shell that manouvers... though to be clear a manouvering round doesn't need to fly loop the loops or be some sort of modern day dog fighter... often just being able to turn a few degrees to deliver the HE fragmentation warhead closer to the target is good enough... even a ring of side mounted rocket thrusters to push the round one way or the other would be enough... or even a speed brake that flips out for a fraction of a second to steer the round one way or the other could be enough to get the HE round close enough to end a drone.

    Drones are tiny but are also incredibly fragile and very easy to break... a shock wave could break the wings which could be enough to stop it being effective... you don't have to shred it with shrapnel fragments, or blow it into tiny pieces...

    These systems are very interesting and have potential connected with an IADS where warning times are sufficient as it could be done cheaply but still efficiently too... together with a range of other systems including decoys and jammers and even your own drones with weapons mounted on them to hunt other drones... it would be very interesting...
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:07 am

    GarryB wrote:The issue with the big guns like the KS-19 is that such a large heavy weapon would have serious problems tracking a target in close and at longer ranges the problems of hitting a free flying target are compounded by time.

    Think of it as a sniper... shooting a person to kill them from 100m should be quite straight forward... the distance they can move between when you fire the gun and when the bullet strikes the target will be incredibly short so there are very few things the target could do to evade getting hit... especially if they don't know the bullet is coming.

    Now think of that same sniper shooting a target 20km away... with a projectile flight time measured in minutes the obvious problem for the sniper is to anticipate where the target will be in however many seconds his projectile will be in flight towards the target... once you fire even a slight speed up or slow down of the target could create an enormous miss... if the target is walking along a path you might be able to anticipate his position x number of seconds later if he is walking at a steady pace... but what if he hears or sees something that attracts his attention and he stops or slows down or speeds up... for a flying object the problems are multiplied with an added dimension of altitude... it can speed up or slow down or turn left or turn right or climb or descend but it can also do any combination of any or all of those...

    The solution is an air burst... predict an intercept point and then set the round to explode there sending a shower of fragments over an enormous area to compensate for any deviation in flight... it would be relatively cheap to implement... certainly cheaper than a shell that manouvers... though to be clear a manouvering round doesn't need to fly loop the loops or be some sort of modern day dog fighter... often just being able to turn a few degrees to deliver the HE fragmentation warhead closer to the target is good enough... even a ring of side mounted rocket thrusters to push the round one way or the other would be enough... or even a speed brake that flips out for a fraction of a second to steer the round one way or the other could be enough to get the HE round close enough to end a drone.

    Drones are tiny but are also incredibly fragile and very easy to break... a shock wave could break the wings which could be enough to stop it being effective... you don't have to shred it with shrapnel fragments, or blow it into tiny pieces...

    These systems are very interesting and have potential connected with an IADS where warning times are sufficient as it could be done cheaply but still efficiently too... together with a range of other systems including decoys and jammers and even your own drones with weapons mounted on them to hunt other drones... it would be very interesting...

    quite agree, and of course new rounds can be developed, the larger calibre will allow, more shrapnel, or emp rounds or bigger shockwave. Of course as u say this system is only decent when connected to IADS and timing is done correctly and remember its not just one Sa-ir being used but rather 4+ so if done and planned correctly you could create a wall of shrapnel/ shockwave against a swarm of drones. The bonus to this system is the cost of the rounds a lot cheaper than missiles which can be saved for high pay off targets and more difficult aircraft.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 am

    https://112.ua/mir/v-irane-obyasnili-pochemu-kompleks-pvo-zapustil-raketu-v-ukrainskiy-samolet-boeing-737-542530.html

    Now they look like idiots with this flimsy excuse! But if true, heads should roll- if it wasn't adjusted for its new location, they shouldn't have used it at all.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:39 pm

    Iranian Resonance-NE discovered and accompanied American F-35 fighters flying near the borders of the republic after a series of Iranian missile strikes against American military bases in Iraq.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178548-rossijskaja-rls-rezonans-nje-vskroet-amerikano-izrailskij-udar-po-iranu.html

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:32 am

    Now they look like idiots with this flimsy excuse! But if true, heads should roll- if it wasn't adjusted for its new location, they shouldn't have used it at all.

    Wow... what amateurs... surely they should have claimed they were using old out of date maps like the Americans did when they bombed the Chinese embassy....

    What they should do is say to all the countries demanding cash payments for their lost citizens that Iran will be happy to pay... from the seized money held by the west... when the west releases the money then they can get their money...
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:47 pm

    Were the iran TORM1 upgraded on M2?
    The IDF is trained against the Cypriot M1 systems.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:15 am

    Training is one thing but it is like anything... you can train against someone with a knife, but that person will try to use the knife in specific ways which you will practise against and learn to counter.

    It is useful experience but not really meaningful if you don't take the time to find out what techniques and tactics your actual enemy uses and get the person you are practising against to use those tactics and techniques.

    Equally your enemy might try to look at things from your perspective and perhaps even use spies to find out what was tried and what worked and what did not so they can form new tactics for defeating enemy air power.

    I would add that having capable missile systems would lead to enemy aircraft and weapons operating at lower altitudes, especially through mountains and hills if possible to delay detection... in which case even relatively small calibre guns can come in to play. Specially designed rounds with reduced propellent loads but enlarged payloads with more HE and more fragments... perhaps a directed payload of fragments that can generate a screen of debris that can bring down even a large group of drones at one time could be developed. Shorter range actually means less time for the target to deviate from its current flightpath or flight speed, meaning more chance of a kill.

    Would also be absolutely devastating against enemy troops operating out in the open in the mountains...
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    Post  Hole Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:57 pm

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Ey0xy510
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Ey0xyw10
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Ey0xzf10
    Some iranian SAM/ABM system.

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    Post  UZB-76 Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm

    That is Bavar-373

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:27 pm


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    Post  Kiko Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:03 am

    Iran Boasts Newest Version of Bavar-373 Air Defense System is Better Than Russia’s S-400, by Morgan Artyukhina for Sputniknews. 23/08/2021.

    In 2019, Iranian Brig. Gen. Shahrokh Shahram, then head of the defense ministry’s Organisation of Electronic Industries, said the Bavar-373 exceeded the capabilities of the US’ Patriot air defense system and even the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD), although he was nonspecific as to which version of the Patriot its performance exceeded.

    Iran’s newest version of the Bavar-373 is an even more effective air defense system than the Russian-made S-400 Triumf system, according to an Iranian defense leader.

    “New editions of the Bavar-373 are coming and soon, a new edition that may be at the same or higher level than S400 will be unveiled,” Iranian Deputy Defense Minister Brig. Gen. Mahdi Farahi said during a Sunday television interview.

    According to Iran’s Tasnim News Agency, the former Aerospace Industries Organization chief also said that the country had developed a new type of liquid rocket fuel that’s as stable as solid fuel. Typically, solid fuels are placed in rockets that must be ready to fire at a moment’s notice, but with the disadvantage that the fuel is less efficient than liquid fuel. Stable liquid fuel would give Iranian missiles a faster firing time and speed while making them lighter at the same time.

    The Bavar-373 was Iran’s answer to an export ban by Russia on its S-300 surface-to-air missile system until 2015. The domestically developed system employs multiple radars for detecting up to 300 targets at a time, tracking 60 of them, and engaging six, and can punch through many types of jamming.

    Ironically, the Bavar-373’s projectile, the Sayyad-4 missile, is an improved version of a reverse-engineered Standard Missile-1 (SM-1) sold to Iran by the United States prior to the 1979 Islamic Revolution that threw out the Western-backed shah and ushered the present government into power. It has a range of up to 210 kilometers and can approach hypersonic speeds.

    That will have to be considerably improved upon if the new version is to outperform the S-400, which can hit targets some 400 kilometers out when using the ultra-long-range 40N6E missiles. However, if it can indeed do so, then Iran could have a viable weapon for shooting down low-altitude satellites, or ballistic missiles in their midcourse phase.

    In June, Dmitry Shugaev, the director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, said that Tehran was interested in several Russian-made weapons systems, with Iran’s then defense minister, Brig. Gen. Amir Hatami, having inspected an S-400 at the ARMY-2020 military expo outside Moscow the previous August.

    Since October 2020, international sanctions against Iran that blocked it from buying weapons abroad expired, but if Tehran were to buy S-400s from Russia, it would open them up to new sanctions from the US under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA). India, China, and Turkey have had to wrestle with similar restrictions when buying S-400s.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/202108231083695915-iran-boasts-newest-version-of-bavar-373-air-defense-system-is-better-than-russias-s-400/

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    Post  x_54_u43 Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:37 am

    Iranian delusions part 32
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:22 pm

    So they have upgraded an SM-2 missile and think it is better than an S-400 missile... which they don't have.

    The SM-2 missile is a two stage missile and its performance is not bad... the US Navy of all the US services took SAM air defence the most seriously, though their choices are interesting to say the least... they didn't use a sea launched AMRAAM... their ESSM is a digital upgraded Sparrow AAM, and their SEA RAM is a combination of Sidewinder Stinger and Hellfire missiles...

    I honestly wish them well and all the best with this new missile... hope it is effective... but the S-400 is also a very very capable system... there are reasons Turkey and India and China want it and are prepared to put up with a lot of shit from the US to get it...

    The real amusing thing x_54_u43 is that you didn't say a word about their claims it was better than Patriot or THAAD... that is funny... because in that they are probably correct...

    The new US ABM system is based on SM-6 missiles and not any version of Patriot or THAAD.... it is the naval AEGIS Ashore that is defending Europe...
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:28 am

    I suppose you are hyping too much, guys.
    Brig. Gen put S-400 as a benchmark, admitting that the B373 version that will only come soon can reach the S-400 level. The one is to be unveiled soon only. This is a real meaning of the whole story, and nothing extraordinary. We hear this kind of statement daily.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:56 pm

    syrseal
    @syrseal44
    ·
    1 Sep
    Tehran hosted a solemn ceremony for the presentation of two new products of the Air Defense Forces of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Iran

    A three-dimensional radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR) called "Alborz" was created to intercept and detect long-range air targets with a small radar cross-section, almost invisible. The maximum range of the new radar is 450 km, and it is capable of detecting targets at low altitude. Alborz radar can also track up to 300 targets simultaneously.

    The Borhan system is a low-range and low-range fire control system as the last line of defense in the point defense of the air defense command and control center. After receiving and analyzing information from all sources, this system instantly transfers them to the highest levels of command for making decisions in the shortest possible time and eliminating the air threat.


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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:57 pm


    Jason Brodsky
    @JasonMBrodsky
    ·
    6h
    Infographic for #Iran's Army Air Defense Day:


    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 E-rRcclWUAQ54d5?format=jpg&name=large

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:00 am

    A few systems and pics
    3rd of Khordad ''Raad'' TELAR armed with sayyad -2 missiles (upgraded Sa-5) first time Sa-5 been self propelled
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 98_210

    Raad Arash 122mm anti air rocket system. Two types

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Raad10

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Image_10

    Sayyad 77mm anti air rocket system few versions, also note this system has also been used as MLRS using different rocket same caliber

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 15069810

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    Asefeh 23mm Triple barrel battling (could be a good VBIED killer)
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    Self propelled Mesbah 23mm

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Img_2015

    35mm Seraj ''Sadegh 10 or Heal

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 D4qmza10

    Zu-23-2 on truck with enlarged magazine, and zu-23-2 automatic
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Untitl10

    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 73362610
    Dshk x8 on zpu-4 mount (could be a good VBIED killer)
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Image10
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 14410
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:01 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:A few systems and pics
    3rd of Khordad ''Raad'' TELAR armed with sayyad -2 missiles (upgraded Sa-5) first time Sa-5 been self propelled
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 98_210

    Looks more like a grandson of SM1 to me Very Happy
    One of the most interesting stuff Iranians have there is a modern version of big calibre AA guns, that is KS19 Saeer and its derivatives.
    Operates in batteries, with common targeting, and operates in automatic mode actually.
    Imagine the potency of a modern 100mm gun, how deadly ammo can be applied there.
    And how fantastic anti-missile and anti-UAV warfare it can unleash for some pennies.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:33 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:A few systems and pics
    3rd of Khordad ''Raad'' TELAR armed with sayyad -2 missiles (upgraded Sa-5) first time Sa-5 been self propelled
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 98_210

    Looks more like a grandson of SM1 to me  Very Happy
    One of the most interesting stuff Iranians have there is a modern version of big calibre AA guns, that is KS19 Saeer and its derivatives.
    Operates in batteries, with common targeting, and operates in automatic mode actually.
    Imagine the potency of a modern 100mm gun, how deadly ammo can be applied there.
    And how fantastic anti-missile and anti-UAV warfare it can unleash for some pennies.

    Iran did have SM-1 and the issue we have with Iran is they design so many different AD systems and various upgrades and many systems share similar or same names as other systems it's very hard to figure out what's what, they also change the missile shape confusing matters further. I do know that their SM-1 variant has been mounted before.
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Irania10
    Iran Air Defense Systems - Page 13 Images17

    They have used their version in multiple ways, but I noticed in some versions the range is less than the usual S-200 but also notice the missile being smaller. It's hard to tell as Iran often exaggerate things, and mix n match systems. But the point being is that it is self propelled.

    I posted pics etc on sa-ir would be great to see it in action, it's more ideal for higher altitudes but could be useful for drones swarms I always thought a battery of 12 systems, half armed with HE-FRAG with programmable timed fuses and proximity fuses, and the other half armed with EMP rounds, so u have a nice scatter across a large area with a mix of rounds, and the rounds would be fairly cheap.

    Also to note that it could be used as a form of artillery, could mount it on a truck for mobility and faster set up times. AA guns during WW2 was also used as artillery and direct role so this system could effectively do three roles, air defence, artillery, direct fire, and having 4 rounds (5 if u pre load) ready to fire self loading could be useful.
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    Post  George1 Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:50 pm

    Iran's new AD-08 "Majid" air defense system

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:01 am

    Aᴍɪʀ
    @AmirIGM
    ·
    12 Oct
    Stealing the attention at the Defenders of the Velayat skies 1400 exercise today, a potent SHORAD system with:

    Phased array search radar
    360° coverage with VLS
    8 ready to fire missiles
    All contained on a cost-effective wheeled vehicle with good mobility


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:59 am

    Iranian systems should not be underestimated for several reasons, but one is extremely interesting.
    It is its own component base that creates them.
    As Iran is targeted by sanctions for 40+ years, they have managed to construct and produce its own electronics, including processors.
    And as far as I have read about that, those are vastly unknown to the enemy, making them very much immune to countermeasures.

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    Post  crod Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:37 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Iranian systems should not be underestimated for several reasons, but one is extremely interesting.
    It is its own component base that creates them.
    As Iran is targeted by sanctions for 40+ years, they have managed to construct and produce its own electronics, including processors.
    And as far as I have read about that, those are vastly unknown to the enemy, making them very much immune to countermeasures.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about the last part of that post. The israelis are well integrated in Iran, we’ve seen time and time again. If they’re able to get shed loads of documents (crates of them) out they can get the circuit boards out just as easily.

    The safe/intel houses established during the Shah days have proven irreplaceable to the israelis. From assassinations, theft of documentation and equipment (they are believed to have stolen ventilator machines from them at the beginning of Covid outbreak), launching of software viruses using human action from within the targeted facilities and god knows what else besides - I really doubt they would have any problems at all getting what they need regarding those systems.
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:03 pm

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    Post  nomadski Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:39 am

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/181408/Unknown-drone-crashed-in-central-Iran-VIDEO


    Any experts can ID this drone please ? If foreign , then adds to the probability that Natanz object also a Recon drone and not target practice drone as stated by authorities . Makes sense now to put " pressure " on Iran for Nuclear talks . As I suspected the Army hiding possible fact of air incursion by marvellous obstruction by baldy head ! At least this time , it is not a partial eclipse of the sun or thunder cloud ! Iran must absolutely protect important and irreplaceable sites of Atomic things .

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