Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Mike E wrote:That is what I figured, thanks for the info!

Does anyone have an answer to my original question? I hate to sound persistent, but it has been bugging me for the last couple days!

Mike E wrote:Imagine something like that, but 1/2 or 1/3 the size, with guns. This is close to the "far back bridge" design.

TR1 wrote:Yes, Gorshkov has the long ranged 9M96-reputed to have 150+ km range in the domestic version.

Austin wrote:

TR1 wrote:Yes, Gorshkov has the long ranged 9M96-reputed to have 150+ km range in the domestic version.

I though the 9M96 has range of 125 km what is your source for 150 km+

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

Some AA (or Military testing, I don't remember) announcement about either Vityaz or Redut, but I distinctly recall them saying the complex (it was one that certainly uses (9M96) had 150km range.
I'll post if i find it.

I distinctly remember when they were first revealed as part of the S-400 system and shown publicly the figures were 40km range for the smaller missile and 120km for the larger missile.

When Vityaz was being further remember they spoke about domestic models with ranges of 60km and 150km respectively.

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

Some AA (or Military testing, I don't remember) announcement about either Vityaz or Redut, but I distinctly recall them saying the complex (it was one that certainly uses (9M96) had 150km range.
I'll post if i find it.

I distinctly remember when they were first revealed as part of the S-400 system and shown publicly the figures were 40km range for the smaller missile and 120km for the larger missile.

When Vityaz was being further remember they spoke about domestic models with ranges of 60km and 150km respectively.

The comparison is fair because is not a Fairness contest. Of which have the best frigate. In case of War ,NATO will not say..lets bring Frigates and corvettes only because Russia is at disadvantage.. So is totally Fair to compare what will represent the backbone of Russia navy ,the one they plan to build more versus the more common warships that Russia will have to face. But if their SAM defenses range is 125k to 150k ,that changes things for sure..  So hopefully is true..  40km range Sams will be good in small and cheap warships.


The only question left i guess is how many 125k+ range 9m96e missiles the Gorshov Class will have domestic version?  128 too ?

T055 wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

Some AA (or Military testing, I don't remember) announcement about either Vityaz or Redut, but I distinctly recall them saying the complex (it was one that certainly uses (9M96) had 150km range.
I'll post if i find it.

I distinctly remember when they were first revealed as part of the S-400 system and shown publicly the figures were 40km range for the smaller missile and 120km for the larger missile.

When Vityaz was being further remember they spoke about domestic models with ranges of 60km and 150km respectively.

The comparison is fair because is not a Fairness contest. Of which have the best frigate. In case of War ,NATO will not say..lets bring Frigates and corvettes only because Russia is at disadvantage.. So is totally Fair to compare what will represent the backbone of Russia navy ,the one they plan to build more versus the more common warships that Russia will have to face. But if their SAM defenses range is 125k to 150k ,that changes things for sure..  So hopefully is true..  40km range Sams will be good in small and cheap warships.


The only question left i guess is how many 125k+ range 9m96e missiles the Gorshov Class will have domestic version?  128 too ?

The building of Gorskhov har been painfully slow. This is the hard reality. The number Russia was looking at a few years back, which were 30 to begin with was clearly just a fantasy. Then the number of Gorshkov frigates was reduced to between 15 and 20.

Today, in July 2014, it is definitely clear that Russia is lucky if they even produce 8 Gorskhovs by 2020.

Almost the same problems with Admiral Grigorivich too, but Gorshkov is really being slowly built. So it's a real let down. And it's not even close to modern destroyers out there such as Arleigh Burkes, Type 052D, Atago-class, Sejong the Great and Type 45.

The U.S. already has 62 Arleigh Burkes + more Burkes on the way and 3 Zumwalts, which is pretty sick. No 6-8 Gorshkovs can stop that, ever, in any way.

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

Some AA (or Military testing, I don't remember) announcement about either Vityaz or Redut, but I distinctly recall them saying the complex (it was one that certainly uses (9M96) had 150km range.
I'll post if i find it.

I distinctly remember when they were first revealed as part of the S-400 system and shown publicly the figures were 40km range for the smaller missile and 120km for the larger missile.

When Vityaz was being further remember they spoke about domestic models with ranges of 60km and 150km respectively.

The comparison is fair because is not a Fairness contest. Of which have the best frigate. In case of War ,NATO will not say..lets bring Frigates and corvettes only because Russia is at disadvantage.. So is totally Fair to compare what will represent the backbone of Russia navy ,the one they plan to build more versus the more common warships that Russia will have to face. But if their SAM defenses range is 125k to 150k ,that changes things for sure..  So hopefully is true..  40km range Sams will be good in small and cheap warships.


The only question left i guess is how many 125k+ range 9m96e missiles the Gorshov Class will have domestic version?  128 too ?

T055 wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers can have 90 cells x RIM-66 with 170km range , the ROyal navy Type 45 destroyer with about 48 cell x Asters anti air missiles with up to 120km range.  So i don't see the excitement of the new Frigates if will be limited to near Visual range combat when it comes to planes.  Purely defensive Sams in the navy makes more sense in smaller ships like Corvettes. but not in Frigate.

So your objection to new Russian Frigates is that they are out ranged in fire power by NATO Destroyers and US 10,000 ton cruisers... interesting...

Some AA (or Military testing, I don't remember) announcement about either Vityaz or Redut, but I distinctly recall them saying the complex (it was one that certainly uses (9M96) had 150km range.
I'll post if i find it.

I distinctly remember when they were first revealed as part of the S-400 system and shown publicly the figures were 40km range for the smaller missile and 120km for the larger missile.

When Vityaz was being further remember they spoke about domestic models with ranges of 60km and 150km respectively.

The comparison is fair because is not a Fairness contest. Of which have the best frigate. In case of War ,NATO will not say..lets bring Frigates and corvettes only because Russia is at disadvantage.. So is totally Fair to compare what will represent the backbone of Russia navy ,the one they plan to build more versus the more common warships that Russia will have to face. But if their SAM defenses range is 125k to 150k ,that changes things for sure..  So hopefully is true..  40km range Sams will be good in small and cheap warships.


The only question left i guess is how many 125k+ range 9m96e missiles the Gorshov Class will have domestic version?  128 too ?

The building of Gorskhov har been painfully slow. This is the hard reality. The number Russia was looking at a few years back, which were 30 to begin with was clearly just a fantasy. Then the number of Gorshkov frigates was reduced to between 15 and 20.

Today, in July 2014, it is definitely clear that Russia is lucky if they even produce 8 Gorskhovs by 2020.

Almost the same problems with Admiral Grigorivich too, but Gorshkov is really being slowly built. So it's a real let down. And it's not even close to modern destroyers out there such as Arleigh Burkes, Type 052D, Atago-class, Sejong the Great and Type 45.

The U.S. already has 62 Arleigh Burkes + more Burkes on the way and 3 Zumwalts, which is pretty sick. No 6-8 Gorshkovs can stop that, ever, in any way.

Vann7 wrote:
So how many 9M96e  missiles the Gorshkov frigate will have with 125km-150km range... ?  

128  ?

I ask because the lenght of different versions of 9m96 change.. the longer range ones no idea if fit on the warship in
numbers of 4 per cell.

George1 wrote:when Gorshkov will be delivered at last? it reminds me Ivan Gren ship

TR1 wrote:

George1 wrote:when Gorshkov will be delivered at last? it reminds me Ivan Gren ship

Navy doesn't want Ivan Gren, but it very much wants Gorshkov.