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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    kumbor


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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kumbor Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:09 am



    But bear in mind that KIlo SSKs are double-hulled, meaning their pressure hulls are stronger by definition..
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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:56 am

    Not really.

    They don't have two pressure hulls, they have one pressure hull and an outer hull that is flooded and not meant to hold anything out or in.

    On the Oscar class SSGNs the gap between the inner pressure hull and the outer hull was where the main Granit missiles were stored... 12 on each side.

    The outer hull looks thick but it is sound baffling material.... it is not armour or a pressure hull, it is just the outer skin.

    By definition any armour layer that gets penetrated and for the contents of the penetrator to be over 300kgs of HE and the armour actually works against the vehicle by containing the explosion temporarily... intensifying the damage inside and ensuring the entire crew die.

    If you want to blow up a tree stump you drill a hole into it and put the charge inside the tree.

    If you have to put it outside the tree or object you strap something on the outside for the explosion to push against to damage the thing you are trying to blow a hole through.

    For instance to blow a hole through a brick wall you get two flat bits of wood like 4x2s and tape or nail them together in the form of a cross and put plastic explosives at the ends of each of the pieces of wood and put the explosive up against the wall to blow a hole through.

    If you were trying to bring down the building with a huge HE charge just open the door and place it in the centre of the building near the structural supports.
    Big_Gazza
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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:38 pm

    Backman wrote:
    gc3762 wrote:You do realise the images were fake, propaganda?

    Some on the pro Russia side say they are real. Some on the pro Russia side say they are fake.

    Close up pics of a submarine like this should never make it on social media either way.

    The Russian ministry of defense have unequivocally stated that both vessels will be repaired.  That resolves the question as far as I am concerned.  I can't reconcile the size of the visible damage with the size of the warhead carried by the limey missile.  A internal explosion of that size should have at least distorted the hull from the resulting over pressure yet all we have is a surgical entry hole. Suspect

    The quality of the pics is also very low which allows the faker to conceal the inevitable artifacts introduced by the shopping work.

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    kumbor


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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kumbor Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:53 pm

    It is obvious that every submarine has only one pressure hull (прочный корпус). Even old Dutch Potvis/Dolfijn, although they were "triple hulled", they have three pressure, tube-like hulls, where lower two house powerplant, and upper house armament, electronics and crew compartments, Essentially, they make a triangle, but as they are all connected, they also act as ONE pressure hull  "Light hull", outer hull is lightly built and mostly free-flooded. What to say about Pr.941 Akula (Typhoon), with, I think, FIVE PRESSURE HULLS, Anyway, there is NO one pressure hull WITHIN another, but abreast and on top, as they were constructed to survive a direct hit of US Mk.48 torpedo.

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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs Sat Oct 07, 2023 3:10 pm

    GarryB's post lays the damage BS to rest. The image posted on social media were clearly fake. There was no indication of a near miss by a 250 kg warhead that
    could have produced more limited hull damage. So if the sub was hit as claimed, then it would have been totaled similarly to the image posted above.

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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:59 am

    Anyway, there is NO one pressure hull WITHIN another, but abreast and on top, as they were constructed to survive a direct hit of US Mk.48 torpedo.

    To protect a target from a HE explosion what you need are air pockets. The outer layer of the outer hull carries tiles to reduce noise and the reflection of noise from the outer hull, if they were smart (and they are smart) inside that layer they can have an air pocket and then things like missile tubes or bladders containing ballast water for manouvering and then another air pocket and then the pressure hull if the inner hull.

    A blast on the outer hull would crush the outer hull but the air pockets inside would collapse and compress and absorb the blast wave... the way water can't... because water does not compress. In fact the problem is so bad that the US don't use blast HE torpedo warheads any more for their anti sub torpedoes... their anti sub torpedoes for quite some time have been HEAT designs intended t blow a small hole through deep armour to try to reach that inner pressure hull because if they don't reach it they really don't cause substantial damage to the sub despite the rather large weapons they use.

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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:04 am

    MOSCOW, November 18. /TASS/. The Project 636.3 submarine "Novorossiysk" of the Black Sea Fleet (BSF), after completion of repairs, will serve as part of the Permanent Operational Force of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea. A source close to the Russian Navy reported this to TASS.

    “The submarine “Novorossiysk” of the Black Sea Fleet, after completion of repairs at the Kronstadt Naval Order of Lenin Plant, will serve as part of the Mediterranean squadron of the Russian Navy,” the agency’s interlocutor said.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19318383

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:48 pm

    B-608 "Mozhaisk" , the Varshavyanka Nº11 received by RuNavy

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    Post  George1 Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:14 pm

    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Sub10

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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:59 pm

    Οnly 3 old Kilos under service? Also, Alrosa in BSF has been always in repairs from the time I remember myself in RMF

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    Post  franco Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:39 pm

    George1 wrote:Οnly 3 old Kilos under service? Also, Alrosa in BSF has been always in repairs from the time I remember myself in RMF


    According to these guys https://russianships.info/eng/today/

    - Baltic - 1
    - Black Sea - 1
    - Northern - 4
    - Pacific - 4

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:13 pm

    They have been commissioning the new 636.3 subs at a rate of like one a year.
    Next year they should have replenished the Pacific Fleet with six such subs. After already adding six such subs to the Black Sea Fleet.

    The Alrosa should still be in service. They finished overhaul and put it into service in the Black Sea Fleet around last year.

    They also have two 977 subs in trials which are going to the Northern Fleet.

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:53 am

    The several design flaws in the Kilo. Clearly Russian SSK design has not evolved. Swedes, Germans, French make better SSKs than Russians

    https://topwar.ru/231964-varshava-protiv-lady.html
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:34 am

    The Japanese are currently leading the pack when it comes to SSK designs. The Russian will likely follow this trend in their new designs.

    Their latest generation submarine - the Taigei class - is equipped with lithium-ion batteries, making it possible for the sub to travel under water for much longer distances and at higher speeds than conventional diesel-electric submarines. This includes those German, Swedish and French subs with AIP. It apparently doesn't work as well as advertised. In fact the Kilos seems to have better overall endurance than those AIP subs.

    Not so sure about those "design flaws" in the Kilo's, but the sub is known in the West for being very difficult to detect - even in it's older variant (Pr.887).

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    Post  TMA1 Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:18 pm

    Russian navy has been in a precarious place, mixed with blessings and hardships. The upgraded kilo is an old design but it is still viable in it's designed role. The thing is Russia has a vast nuclear fleet and so the development of AIP for their diesel subs has not been as necessary as those smaller nations without a nuclear fleet. These nations are developing diesel electric subs with AIP because they dont have nuclear subs with vastly greater capabilities.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:53 am

    Japanese experience with AIP SSKs is that they are not powerful enough... when submerged you need a lot of systems to be working all the time, even more systems if you actually want to be an operational sub that can move and detect targets and sink them if needed. A diesel generates noise and has to be run near the surface, but generates an enormous amount of power meaning you can run all your systems and fast charge your batteries while operating at snorkel depth.

    On a 30 day deployment in an SSK you might leave port at full charge so you have two weeks of underwater operations where you can sneak around and be a hunter before you need to approach the surface and make some engine noise for 6-8 hours, but after doing that you are good for another two weeks of hunting and operations.

    You can plan your mission so you spend your two weeks quiet in enemy or neutral waters and then when you need to snorkel you can head back to friendly waters and even enter a friendly harbour and recharge amongst the running diesel engines of a dozen other civilian ships. In the wild you could simply find a civilian ship to snorkel behind... the noise of the civilian ship will disguise the noise you are making and any diesel fume sensors will detect the fumes from the civil ship and might not even notice the fumes you are producing.

    In comparison these fuel cells don't generate enough power to fully operate all the essential systems let alone the combat systems while at the same time fast charge the batteries. This means you essentially shut down all but essential systems, but the reduced power the cells generate means it might take a day or two to charge the batteries.

    The Japanese, with their experience with AIPs (and they make AIPs as good as anyone in the west) they realised that actually replacing all their old batteries with new lithium ion batteries... but also replace the AIP with even more batteries actually gives much better performance. Remember these AIPs need large tanks of Oxygen and tanks of Hydrogen too to actually work. Carrying large volumes of oxygen is dangerous. Most ports do not have oxygen and hydrogen handling facilities.

    The several design flaws in the Kilo.

    Hahaha... it is normal for them to want them to stop making Kilos and start making the newer Ladas...

    Kilos are made easier and faster because they have been in serial production for a long time while Ladas are new... think of it in terms of making Panthers and making Panzer 4s... for every Panther they could have made four or five Panzer 4s and when they changed from one to the other they weren't getting any tanks. At a time when the Soviets were making T-34s in enormous numbers.

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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK - Page 32 Empty Roston on Don submarine back in service in June 2024

    Post  Ned86 Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:19 am

    The repair of the damaged Project 636.3 submarine Rostov-on-Don of the Black Sea Fleet (hit by Storm shadow)  will be completed in June 2024. A source in the military-industrial complex reported this to TASS.


    link

    Shipbuilders of the Sevastopol Marine Plant (a branch of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center - ed.) will complete the repairs of the Rostov-on-Don by the end of the first half of this year and repair the damage received on September 13, 2023 as a result of the Ukrainian cruise missile attack on the enterprise," - said the agency's interlocutor. TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.
    According to the agency’s interlocutor, the 13th ship repair plant is the lead contractor for the order for repairs of the submarine. Specialists from the Admiralty Shipyards (St. Petersburg), the enterprise where the submarine was built, are also participating in the work.

    Let us recall that on September 13, 2023, Ukraine launched a cruise missile attack on Sevmorzavod, where the large landing ship Minsk and the diesel-electric submarine Rostov-on-Don were being repaired.
    As the Russian Ministry of Defense reported on the same day, “two ships of the Navy, undergoing scheduled repairs at the Ordzhonikidze shipyard in the city of Sevastopol and damaged as a result of a missile attack by the Kiev regime on September 13, will be fully restored and will continue combat service as part of their fleets.”

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    Post  George1 Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:52 pm

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