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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Arkanghelsk
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:26 am

    We also saw in Jammu and Kashmir how IAF and PAF ended in a WVR scenario

    Amraam was fired at close range, and BVR shot at SU30 ended as we know all BVR engagements end, with the missile flying into empty air.

    In that scenario, SU30 hits afterburner and chases enemy down exactly as intended and hits with R27 or R73.

    F16 and F15 have better survivability then f35 , that is why they go back to F15SM a copy of SU30 and SU35 advanced technologies. 4th gen were not surpassed by 5th gen in many operational capacities, and the key elements, combat range, speed, maneuverability, and weapons diversity are well taken into account and will be sought after by USAF.

    Meanwhile Russia already goes to 120 SU35 and upgrades Su30SM2.

    This proves American exercises are not held in real war scenario similar to sea breeze, Defender europe, and other American exercises they are mostly for PR and not for a real conflict.

    In real terms the SU35 is superior to F35 and F22 in terms of range, weapons payload, supermaneuverability, which has served VKS in practical terms time and again in interceptions over baltic seas and Syria.

    Also in diversity of weapons systems, and EW, khbibiny had disabled the USS donald cook from afar, while buzzed by SU24.

    So we have not seen the real use of such jets like f35 or f22 which remain PR stunts and graft operations for corporate aviation.

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    TMA1
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  TMA1 Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:23 pm

    Yeah that spat between Pakistan and India and most recently nagorno-karabakh conflict show that the west is very serious about propaganda defending western military kit from bad press, and the exact opposite for russian kit. The f16 fighters spammed their missiles from within their own borders. There was not much the indian pilots could do as far as the su30 fighters were concerned without risking breakout of war.

    Nagorno-karabakh was one of the most insidious propaganda battles I have ever witnessed. It is not at all the way turks have painted events to be. Essentially the tr2 is a forpost r class drone stuffed with western equipment. Much 9f the most dangerous conflicts had Azerbaijan using israeli weaponry against rehashed cold war era air defense. The sheer fact that more than two drones and harops against a parked torm2 speaks volumes.
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Isos Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:43 pm

    TMA1 wrote:Yeah that spat between Pakistan and India and most recently nagorno-karabakh conflict show that the west is very serious about propaganda defending western military kit from bad press, and the exact opposite for russian kit. The f16 fighters spammed their missiles from within their own borders. There was not much the indian pilots could do as far as the su30 fighters were concerned without risking breakout of war.

    Nagorno-karabakh was one of the most insidious propaganda battles I have ever witnessed. It is not at all the way turks have painted events to be. Essentially the tr2 is a forpost r class drone stuffed with western equipment. Much 9f the most dangerous conflicts had Azerbaijan using israeli weaponry against rehashed cold war era air defense. The sheer fact that more than two drones and harops against a parked torm2 speaks volumes.

    Pakistani had the advantage since they were around 12 f-16 against 2 su-30 and 1 mig-21. Su-30 were monitoring them on radar keeping safe distance. If they went for one f-16 the others would have went around and fired missiles.

    Same way when indians went to bomb in Pakistan they were a big group and pakistani sent no fighter.

    Even 1 vs 2 is dangerous let alone if it is more.
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  limb Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:29 pm

    There doesn't seem to be any concrete analysis in the last few pages instead of "F-35 bad" and "Su-35 bad" or "China bad".

    There seems to be 0 technical info if the Su-35's IRST is better than french or chinese IRSTs. Does anyone know if the SU-35's IRST has higher range than the Su-30's and rafale's IRST? Is it physically possible that the SU-35's IRST can detect the f-35 in front aspect more than 50km away?

    Also whats an IIR seeker and why did the Russian's allegedly choose not to put one on the R-74?

    Unfortunately for Darrell Patrick "Dale" Zelko, that didn't happen in 1999.

    Non sequitur. The F-117 had its bombay doors open and the F-117 wasn't continuously tracked further than 100km away. This does bring the question how much do moisture droplets physically increase RCS in Xband.


    Last edited by limb on Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Belisarius


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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Belisarius Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:29 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:You are just comparing numbers and air combat isn’t numbers. The f35 will detect the su35 from 200-300km out and most likely will remain undetected itself with its AESA. It will use that advantage to position it self for a high probability BVR shot while keep itself out of the SU35s radar field of view.
    Several years ago, Northrop Grumman published a video, on its youtube channel, where the F-35 radar shows itself capable of detecting targets at distances of up to 160km, so I doubt the Su-35 will be detected at distances of 200-300km, and a high probability kill BVR shot would then occur inside the NEZ, and as I said earlier the Su-35 can detect the F-35 before it enters the NEZ from the AIM-120D.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:And SU35 has to know to look for targets the size of 0.01m2. This about the size of a bird and there is a good chance the radar will filter it as noise. That’s one of the benefits of stealth.
    Unfortunately for Darrell Patrick "Dale" Zelko, that didn't happen in 1999.

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    Podlodka77
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:36 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Mir wrote:It is funny that back in 2008 Rand Corporation found that the Su-35 could shoot down 2.4 F-35s for every Su-35 lost. Rand Corporation is an American nonprofit global policy think tank created in 1948 by Douglas Aircraft Company to offer research and analysis to the United States Armed Forces. It is mostly financed by the U.S. government. Laughing

    Naturally the Pentagon/USAF refuted all these claims and in turn claimed that the F-35 Wunderwaffe is 400% more effective in air-to-air combat than any other aircraft other than the F-22 (naturally!). Laughing

    "The classical air combat starts at high speed, but if you miss on the first shot—and the probability is there because there are maneuvers to avoid missiles—the combat will be more prolonged. After maneuvering, the aircraft will be at a lower speed, but both aircraft may be in a position where they cannot shoot. But supermaneuverability allows an aircraft to turn within three seconds and take another shot."
    — Sergey Bogdan, Sukhoi chief test pilot

    Now this very well known fact could make the Rand Corporation's outlook even worse than they actually thought! Laughing
    I don’t know what parameters this study uses. I’m pretty much every single exercise held by the Americans the f35 slaughters all 4th gen fighters in BVR and its odds at WVR aren’t bad either because it carries the advanced aimx9 which has a much better IIR seeker than r37

    1. It is easy to attack my Serbia, which before the NATO aggression was under severe sanctions or from 1991 to 1999. Eight years of severe sanctions and only 16 MiG-29 planes. It is easy to attack a country whose planes (like the Serbian MiG-29) already in 1999 flew with exhausted resources and in many cases without functional radar.
    2. It is quite easy when you attack Serbia, which does not have AWACS planes and a global GPS surveillance system, because then you can easily direct your planes (like F-15 and F-16) to Serbian MiG-29 planes with the help of the aforementioned AWACS and GPS.
    3. It is easy to cowardly strike Serbia with strategic bombers (B-2, B-1, B-52), because Serbia had only export variants of the KuB-M2 system, as well as stationary S-125 systems. It is clear as day that Serbia also did not have sophisticated electronic warfare systems - NOTHING.
    4. Serbia did not have any means to strike at the ships of the American Navy. It is easy to strike with cruise missiles from submarines, destroyers and crusiers, on a country that does not even have a modern air defense, which has planes whose resources have expired and in some cases without functional radar, but here it is - Serbia lasted 78 days in that battle.
    5. And thats exactly what the Americans do because for 30 years - the United States use the exactly same tactics against every opponent and and attacks im first with cruise missiles ! It is understood that the opponent has been under severe sanctions for years and that he does not have the military capabilities with which he can inflict great damage on the aggressor - the American army and USN. And you write fairy tales about F-35 planes?
    6. Stop writing to me about a country that was incapable of defeating one Japan, because the American estimate was that there would be war on land against the Japanese, as well as that they would lose at least over a million soldiers. It was easier to drop two atomic bombs.

    *** CONCLUSION; Neither are the people of the West ready for war against Russia (or China), nor is that F-35 what Americans rely on FIRST PLACE when striking any adversary. First comes the impact of cruise missiles, and when the radars and air defense systems are destroyed, then follows the impact of aviation. Now go back to the beginning and read everything again, you taurus, because then you will see what Serbia (or Iraq) did not have, while Russia (or China) has. Taurus, you write about that F-35 plane as if it was made by God himself and as if there is no other weapon system that is far more destructive than the F-35.

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    GarryB
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:45 am

    I don’t know what parameters this study uses. I’m pretty much every single exercise held by the Americans the f35 slaughters all 4th gen fighters in BVR and its odds at WVR aren’t bad either because it carries the advanced aimx9 which has a much better IIR seeker than r37

    Yeah, but western fighters are not intended or designed to fight stealth aircraft, which has been a bit of a focus for Russian fighters from most of the last 40 odd years...

    Russian fighters also operate within an IADS that is incomparably better than the HATO system, which is air based and centred around AWACS platforms that would be terribly vulnerable.

    The AIM-9X was described as a Hittile by its makers but what has its actual performance in combat been... it missed a Syrian Su-22 recently...

    I assume you meant R-73 and not R-37, but kinematically the thrust vectoring engine of the R-73 makes it a rather more capable missile while the seeker is not an imaging seeker it still seems to be rather good.

    The f35 will detect the su35 from 200-300km out and most likely will remain undetected itself with its AESA. It will use that advantage to position it self for a high probability BVR shot while keep itself out of the SU35s radar field of view.

    To detect the Su-35 at any range it would have to use its radar which gives away its own location and presence. The L band AESA radar on the wings of the Su-35 should detect the F-35 at extended ranges...

    And SU35 has to know to look for targets the size of 0.01m2. This about the size of a bird and there is a good chance the radar will filter it as noise. That’s one of the benefits of stealth.

    You do know the filters used on radars are not random, and with there being few birds at 10,000m flying at 800km per hour most Russian radars rather than dismissing it as noise will actually highlight it as something worth investigating...

    In exercises that Americans do majority of the time f15,f16, and f/a18 never detect the f35 and just get a call on the radio saying they are dead.

    Sounds like they will be in the shit when they face Su-57s then.

    Conversely the IADS the Russian planes operate within as well as their new fighter aircraft are all equipped to look for and engage stealth threats, and their self defence equipment optimised to deal with US missiles and radar.

    The evidence is that Chinese guy i quoted and you said yourself that the IRST on the su30 was bad and during the Cold War their IRST for the flankers and mig29s and mig23 was so bad it was useless and the Americans laughed at it when they tested East German equipment. You are claiming a huge generational leap of performance in the su35.

    The Chinese guy likely had experience with the export version of the IRST on the Su-30, just like the German model MiG-29 had an IRST inferior to the IRST on the MiG-23 in Soviet service of the time... I would therefore suggest that the IRST used on current fighters could easily be described as being a generational leap... possibly two.

    And how many of those does Russia have ready for all its su35s and su30s in case of war? My guess majority of the planes will still be carrying r73.

    That is fine... Su-22 exported aircraft have flares that defeat AIM-9X... we have seen the evidence... the flares on the German MiG-29s proved very effective against the Sidewinders of that period too... so not a great surprise... how well will western defence measures perform against R-73s... a bit of an unknown really.

    It still doesn’t give Russia and kind of serious advantage over the f35 in WVR.

    The fact that the F-35 gets beaten in WVR combat by western aircraft suggests it would struggle against Russian planes.

    All Russian planes have helmet mounted sights and IRSTs and both radar and IR guided BVR missiles as well as IR WVR missiles suggests they would kick their arses.

    If the F-35 was all that why are they spending 150 million per plane on new production F-15s?

    Both planes have a high change of killing each other in a dogfight. But f35 has the look first and BVR advantage.

    Not even close to being proven.

    As well as the networking and sensor fusion.

    The Russian IADS network is rather more comprehensive and complete than the US one, and Soviet planes had IRST, Radar, and Helmet mounted cueing systems for the last 40 years.

    Now the r33 did have less sophisticated radars than the american phoenix but the radar power and scanning speed (with the same semi active/active modes) of the r37m as well as its ability to take greater gforces proves that your claims are wrong.

    The ZASLON PESA was constantly underestimated in the west... till they introduced AESA radar into widespread use and then electronically scanned radar in fighters was everything... funny how that worked.

    Those exercises are fake news

    It is very easy to set the parameters of an exercise to ensure a specific result is achieved every time, which makes them as you say... fake news.

    Also whats an IIR seeker and why did the Russian's allegedly choose not to put one on the R-74?

    An IIR seeker is a thermal imager. You get a photo or video like image of the target instead of a heat pattern signal.

    On paper it is supposed to render flares useless so the only defence would be DIRCMS... laser jammers... but in the real world it failed miserably against a very old generation aircraft... Su-22 of the Syrian air force.

    The F-117 had its bombay doors open and the F-117 wasn't continuously tracked further than 100km away

    The bomb bay doors on the F-117 open and close very quickly and it does not spend a lot of time with the doors open so the idea that the F-117 had its bomb bay doors open long enough for a ground based radar to detect it and point a missile at it... wait for it to get within missile range and then fire on it and for the missile to lock and track and fly on up and hit the aircraft is just absurd.... B17s didn't leave their bomb bay doors open that long.

    It is easy to attack my Serbia, which before the NATO aggression was under severe sanctions or from 1991 to 1999.

    There was little chance Serbia could defeat all of HATO, and it is to your credit that you made them look like fools and showed that using the equipment you had skillfully that a massacre by the worlds last superpower is not the only possible outcome of conflict with them.

    Some people claim it was a fluke... just pure luck... that you were firing SAMs like Grad rockets and one luckily connected, but even just thinking about it for a few moments... if the plane really was invisible then there would be zero chance of a hit... imagine trying to get a blind man to shoot a bus without knowing the bus route... the bus timetable... or the current time... the odds of a hit on a bus would be absurd.

    Taurus, you write about that F-35 plane as if it was made by God himself and as if there is no other weapon system that is far more destructive than the F-35.

    A little ironic you say that... I would love to see every HATO member operating dozens or hundreds of F-35s.... that alone would bankrupt the block and mean there is little money for anything else...

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:54 am

    Also whats an IIR seeker and why did the Russian's allegedly choose not to put one on the R-74?

    The Morfei missile, 9M100, which is the small short range IIR guided missile in the land based S-350 and at sea on the Redut SAM system (which might be ARH to overcome mist and fog and high moisture conditions common at sea) will introduce an imaging seeker.

    You see the problem with existing IR missiles in the Russian inventory is that it needs a lock before it can be launched. This means for aircraft with internal weapon bays like Su-57 you would need to open the weapon bay and extend the missile out of the weapon bay to allow its seeker to view the target before it could be launched... not very stealthy...

    The new missile has a two way datalink and an IIR seeker that sees the target.

    The idea for the missile is that it will have a 3D target library in its memory of various targets, so when it detects a target it can compare the IR view with its 3D images in its database and identify it target for itself enroute to the target...

    So flying along in your Su-57 or PAK DA and you detect a target through your version of DAS... the location of the target is sent to the missile and an IR image likely sent too so the missile is thrown out of the weapon bay and it lights up its rocket motor and flys in autopilot towards the location it expects to see this target... unlike a radar homing missile it turns on its seeker immediately because it is passive and wont give away its location.

    As it flys towards the location of the target as given at launch it can transmit what it can see back to the launch aircraft and the launch aircraft can select targets or change targets if the circumstances require it, but most of the time the missile will head towards the incoming target... find it, get a lock and engage it.
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:26 am

    Swarm attacks of small drones carrying 1kg explosives will make planes pretty useless.

    They already have such technology. They have optical image processing to spot automatically planes (f-35 is easy to spot on an airgield). And such drones can act alone.

    Send a full truck 20km from the base and they will destroy anything on that airport.

    Last week 3 drones of 2m went over sweedish nuclear plants and they couldn't do anything against them...

    The hardest part is to smuggle them in enemy country which would be done during peace time...

    And Sukhoi's engineer can even reprogram civilian drones and use them this way. Then you just send a civilian guy to buy them in the country and program them and let them fly...

    Nato has no AD agaibst such things neither would they detect them. Release also birds in the same time and radars won't be able to differentiate the drones


    Last edited by Isos on Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:28 am

    I called him a bull, because he is a bull. He attacked the F-35 plane as if it were a red scarf..
    POLITICS; Every story in the West starts with "we are superior". Then they make sure to add that Russians live in severe anarchy, are poorly educated, have a problem of national minorities, criminals + bears and vodka.
    Imagine a situation where the NATO pact is in Ukraine and Finland and where Russia is ahead of it. It is clear what would happen, they would be accused again of putting pressure on Armenia, Kazakhstan, but this time they would also mention national minorities in Russia. The policy of sanctions is not directed against Putin and the Russian authorities, as they like to say in the West, but is directed against the Russian people. Of course, through sanctions, the West wants to turn the Russian people against their own government, as they did against other countries that have been under long-term sanctions.

    "SUPERIORITY"; And the story of the F-35 is American nonsense, because in the past 30+ years, the Americans first fired cruise missiles at every opponent (cruisers, destroyers, LA-class submarines, strategic bombers), and only after that will be included the USAF and aircraft carriers. That is why every pro-NATO fanatic is bothered when next is mentioned; Russian hypersonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles, air defense systems, EW systems, GLONASS global surveillance, Tu-160 and MiG-31, nuclear weapons. and WHY is that so ?
    Because no opponent of the United States or the NATO pact had the above-mentioned systems, so the worn-out story of how NATO planes are superior is always included. People in the West are silk and have become accustomed to a fairly comfortable life, so I doubt very much that they are ready to lose all that in the conflict with Russia.
    When the West writes about the US army, it is like writing about Sparta, although the fact is that the US did not defeat Japan with honor. Yes, they destroyed their navy and air force, but they did not get Japan on land. And then, with a disgusting decision, they dropped two atomic bombs because they had NO army or readiness to bear the huge number of American soldiers killed, which would have been inevitable if they had decided to invade Japan.
    The Russians set out on the path of RECIPROCITY. Yes, it is cheaper to make dozens or hundreds of Kinzhal and Zircon missiles than to produce hundreds and hundreds of new fighter jets.
    A pro-Western journalist told a military analyst the following in a TV show in Serbia; "Are you saying the West hates Russia?" The analyst calmly said the following to the journalist; "Yes, that's all they can and have been doing for centuries - to hate Russia and nothing else."

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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:56 pm

    The west is faced with an incredibly capable IADS on Russian territory that has sensors that look out thousands of kms from its borders, and layers of missiles and aircraft defending that territory... the solution of high flying threat died with Francis Powers and his U-2, and speed in terms of manned aircraft like the SR-71 wasn't going to cut it either so they thought if they aren't seen they could get through so they went for stealth... well lots of time and money and technology and the plans for B-52s and B-2s shifted to low altitude penetration... which was not good for the airframe life of either aircraft... the advantage of stealth is being able to to fly high and therefore fly relatively fast and efficiently in the thin cold air.... but anti stealth systems means flying low is again a necessity, and because they can't manage hypersonic speeds yet their next focus is swarms.

    When a defence is too strong to be overwhelmed by a conventional attack... ramp it up and instead of dozens of attackers... send thousands...

    Their core problem is that Russia has an excellent air defence network and are developing smaller and cheaper ways of dealing with drones.... and also the drones themselves.

    Russia will be working on EMP bombs and weapons to deal with swarms, but the core of the problem is that a drone needs some intelligence to be useful... it needs to be able to find a target and identify it and get to it on its own.... the defender just needs to stop it... a smoke screen or GPS jammer or even just counter drones that attack aerial drones with a net could be used against them... there likely wont just be one solution but a range of different solutions that can be used in combinations depending on the situation.

    Many bases will be near populated areas so blazing away with a machine gun might end up shooting up the neighbourhood and being more destructive than the drone. A shotgun would be more useful but its limited effective range means you would need to be positioned next to the actual target and be very alert...


    Another factor of course is that when Russia develops counter drones they will have a drone force that could be used for a swarm attack on the west whose defences are woeful in comparison in every area... Russia could launch a combined attack with medium and high flying stealth drones, low flying cruise missiles, hypersonic manouvering weapons to take down the few air defence sites they have as well as comms centres and HQs...

    They could even have drones that are launched to get HATO to sent interceptor fighters to deal with... the drones could be armed to defend themselves and shoot down some of the interceptors...
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    Post  bitcointrader70 Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:19 pm

    Unfortunately even the su57 won’t be enough to overcome the Americans air superiority. As I’ve done more research and reading it seems that the Russian fighter jet industry is in big trouble and lacking lots of technical expertise and money for development. There is a word in Russian “лох” it means goofball. And that’s what they have been doing for the last 30 years is goofing off in the air superiority category. Here is a write up by an well versed westerner. Su35 has absolutely zero chance against the f35.

    Sukhoi’s own patent claims Su-57 having a design RCS between 0.1 and 1 m2.

    For a known aircraft [Su-27], the EPR value is about 10–15 m 2.

    The technical result, the achievement of which the invention is directed, is to reduce the magnitude of the aircraft radar visibility to an average value of the order of 0.1 – 1 m 2 .

    That’s comparable to a clean Super Hornet and it shouldn’t be a surprise when Su-57 follows many of the same RCS-reduction measures such as using radar blockers to hide the engine face instead of an actual serpentine duct.

    It’s not just Su-57 being less stealthy than F-35 (-40 dBsm) – it has a 1,000 times bigger RCS. Since detection range is proportional to the 4th root of RCS, a 1,000 times bigger RCS equates to 5.6 times greater detection range. And this is after giving Su-57 every benefit of doubt, the F-35’s RCS is very likely closer to -50 dB.

    The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28–1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.

    It doesn’t matter how capable radar or EW suite you have, they simply can’t compensate the enormous difference in detection range from a VLO airframe. You can have amazing performance at airshows but without Stealth you’re not gonna be in a fight against 5th gen. aircraft.

    And this is ignoring the infancy of Su-57 program and consistent delay in the production/IOC since last 4 years or the fact Su-57’s avionics suite is not remotely comparable to that of F-35. The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.

    Where F-35’s DAS make it the only Fighter to fully operate in the IR spectrum, Su-57 can’t even use its forward-hemisphere IRST without further ruining its RCS. The IRST is turned backwards in Su-57 because its a sphere, the worst shape in terms of RCS that uniformly reflects in all direction.

    Despite all the problems with Su-57 program including lack of existence or international interest, the fundamental design is so far behind F-35 in terms of both Stealth and Situational Awareness – two key aspects of a 5th gen. aircraft. The Su-57’s design is closer to that of modern 4th gen. than it is to either F-22 or F-35.

    Yet the Su-57 is portrayed as an equal counterpart to F-22 and F-35 with people talking about its kinematic performance or side-arrays without even understanding their actual purpose, let alone the impact on EMCON. How great are the Directed IRCMs (Laser turrets) while turning a blind eye to the fact Su-57 use a UV based Missile Warning System – making Su-57 significantly vulnerable to BVR missiles. 10 years since first flight and there’s no indication of K-77M or K-74M anywhere close to being operational, forcing Su-57 to fly with R-77 & R-74 externally (as they won’t fit inside).

    Imagine the kind of articles you’d see if F-35 didn’t have an operational missile that could fit internally. The Su-57 gets away with all the shortcomings using propaganda and fantasies, the likes of non-existent L band radar.

    The Su-57 is nowhere near F-35 for similar reasons as to why F-18 Super Hornets are nowhere near F-35. The gap in Stealth and ultimately Situational Awareness is just overwhelming.
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:36 pm

    Rcs is measured differently from one country to another. Russia for exemple use real radars. US take their data from their ass.

    When Russians say su-57 has a rcs of 0.1-1m2 they also say f-22 has a frontal 0.3m2 because they actual did some engineering work to get those values. They made 1:1 models of all NATO fighter and measured it by into account ram coating. US say su-57 has a rcs of 1m2 because some fanboy on a forum said so with background in any relevent field.

    US are already stafting to think about adding a IRST ball on the f-22 because russian and chinese stealth is shitty good enough. They will sacrifice their own stealth to be avle to compete with enemy stealth... it says a lot.

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    Post  bitcointrader70 Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:37 pm

    Isos wrote:Rcs is measured differently from one country to another. Russia for exemple use real radars. US take their data from their ass.

    When Russians say su-57 has a rcs of 0.1-1m2 they also say f-22 has a frontal 0.3m2 because they actual did some engineering work to get those values. They made 1:1 models of all NATO fighter and measured it by into account  ram coating. US say su-57 has a rcs of 1m2 because some fanboy on a forum said so with background in any relevent field.

    US are already stafting to think about adding a IRST ball on the f-22 because russian and chinese stealth is shitty good enough. They will sacrifice their own stealth to be avle to compete with enemy stealth... it says a lot.

    Doubt. F22 and f35 are essentially undefeated in exercises vs f15/f16/fa18/raphael/typhoon.

    There is a reason everyone is trying to make stealth planes now. China is obsessed with stealth and trying to pump them out like crazy.
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    Post  bitcointrader70 Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:49 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:I called him a bull, because he is a bull. He attacked the F-35 plane as if it were a red scarf..
    POLITICS; Every story in the West starts with "we are superior". Then they make sure to add that Russians live in severe anarchy, are poorly educated, have a problem of national minorities, criminals + bears and vodka.
    Imagine a situation where the NATO pact is in Ukraine and Finland and where Russia is ahead of it. It is clear what would happen, they would be accused again of putting pressure on Armenia, Kazakhstan, but this time they would also mention national minorities in Russia. The policy of sanctions is not directed against Putin and the Russian authorities, as they like to say in the West, but is directed against the Russian people. Of course, through sanctions, the West wants to turn the Russian people against their own government, as they did against other countries that have been under long-term sanctions.

    "SUPERIORITY"; And the story of the F-35 is American nonsense, because in the past 30+ years, the Americans first fired cruise missiles at every opponent (cruisers, destroyers, LA-class submarines, strategic bombers), and only after that will be included the USAF and aircraft carriers. That is why every pro-NATO fanatic is bothered when next is mentioned; Russian hypersonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles, air defense systems, EW systems, GLONASS global surveillance, Tu-160 and MiG-31, nuclear weapons. and WHY is that so ?
    Because no opponent of the United States or the NATO pact had the above-mentioned systems, so the worn-out story of how NATO planes are superior is always included. People in the West are silk and have become accustomed to a fairly comfortable life, so I doubt very much that they are ready to lose all that in the conflict with Russia.
    When the West writes about the US army, it is like writing about Sparta, although the fact is that the US did not defeat Japan with honor. Yes, they destroyed their navy and air force, but they did not get Japan on land. And then, with a disgusting decision, they dropped two atomic bombs because they had NO army or readiness to bear the huge number of American soldiers killed, which would have been inevitable if they had decided to invade Japan.
    The Russians set out on the path of RECIPROCITY. Yes, it is cheaper to make dozens or hundreds of Kinzhal and Zircon missiles than to produce hundreds and hundreds of new fighter jets.
    A pro-Western journalist told a military analyst the following in a TV show in Serbia; "Are you saying the West hates Russia?" The analyst calmly said the following to the journalist; "Yes, that's all they can and have been doing for centuries - to hate Russia and nothing else."

    I’m sorry they bombed your country. But you are kind of a goodball. The Americans don’t use sanctions or fire barrages of cruise missiles because their military is weaker. They do this because they fight with every single advantage. Even if it’s 100% confirmed that the f35 can slaughter every single flanker and felon jet Russia has Americans would still do sanctions and fire missiles first to weaken their opponent. You completely misunderstand their tactics and their strategy. They fight to win in these kind of wars.

    Morals have very little to with it as well. They nuked Japan because fighting a ground war against religious fanatics was pointless and a waste of time. Also the Japanese weren’t saints. All of the dirty shit they did to POWs and raping all those Korean and Chinese women. Don’t get me started. Morals are irrelevant. America nuked them because it was convenient for them and no one could stop them.


    Their BVR and air superiority tactics are well proven. Especially when the Israelis put a bunch of Soviet instructor pilots in the dirt during the Arab wars with Egypt.

    All of those responses with hypersonic missiles and zircons and Khinzals. Those are strategic weapons. By even bringing them into discussion you are acknowledging the inferiors of the Russian airforce to the Americans and their doctrine.
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:12 pm

    China and Russia are into hypersonic and drones. Stealth is barely developed. Europeans are also bypassing massive investements in stealth and focus and datalinked stuff.

    Exercices show nothing. Specially US ones where you see a new fighters vs older fighters that air force would love to replace with new ones. Totally biased results.

    Real threat of US jets is the numbers. But Russia and China have enough missiles to make it not a threat. That's why they are begging for allies against them. Thry can't win a war vs Russia or China alone.

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    Post  lancelot Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:27 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:That’s comparable to a clean Super Hornet and it shouldn’t be a surprise when Su-57 follows many of the same RCS-reduction measures such as using radar blockers to hide the engine face instead of an actual serpentine duct.

    The S-ducts mean you lose loads of internal space. It leads to a fat aircraft with a huge frontal profile and terrible drag coefficient. The fixed air intakes on the F-35 mean you get subpar supersonic performance. You get an aircraft which can't even push to Mach 2. In short these are terrible compromises in terms of performance.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:It’s not just Su-57 being less stealthy than F-35 (-40 dBsm) – it has a 1,000 times bigger RCS. Since detection range is proportional to the 4th root of RCS, a 1,000 times bigger RCS equates to 5.6 times greater detection range. And this is after giving Su-57 every benefit of doubt, the F-35’s RCS is very likely closer to -50 dB.

    You believe these BS numbers? 1000 times bigger RCS? Seriously?

    bitcointrader70 wrote:The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28–1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.

    Yeah. In what is basically a computer simulation.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:And this is ignoring the infancy of Su-57 program and consistent delay in the production/IOC since last 4 years or the fact Su-57’s avionics suite is not remotely comparable to that of F-35. The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.

    Does it? The hardware is over a decade older. It will be supposedly upgraded with Block 4 whenever that is rolled out.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Where F-35’s DAS make it the only Fighter to fully operate in the IR spectrum, Su-57 can’t even use its forward-hemisphere IRST without further ruining its RCS. The IRST is turned backwards in Su-57 because its a sphere, the worst shape in terms of RCS that uniformly reflects in all direction.

    Such bullshit. Just look at the positioning of the DAS. It has clearly been designed for air to ground operations. It is a glorified LANTIRN system. The idea it will be used for air to air missions with a similar performance to the IRST is, well, laughable. All available measures of its performance only strengthen this conviction.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Despite all the problems with Su-57 program including lack of existence or international interest, the fundamental design is so far behind F-35 in terms of both Stealth and Situational Awareness – two key aspects of a 5th gen. aircraft. The Su-57’s design is closer to that of modern 4th gen. than it is to either F-22 or F-35.
    The F-35 has subpar aerodynamic performance with worse top speed than a MiG-21.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:10 years since first flight and there’s no indication of K-77M or K-74M anywhere close to being operational, forcing Su-57 to fly with R-77 & R-74 externally (as they won’t fit inside).

    First flight of what? The prototype? The first aircraft only came into service a couple years ago. The F-22 also still carries obsolete missiles.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Imagine the kind of articles you’d see if F-35 didn’t have an operational missile that could fit internally.

    Meteor doesn't fit inside the F-35 either.


    Last edited by lancelot on Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:31 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:I called him a bull, because he is a bull. He attacked the F-35 plane as if it were a red scarf..
    POLITICS; Every story in the West starts with "we are superior". Then they make sure to add that Russians live in severe anarchy, are poorly educated, have a problem of national minorities, criminals + bears and vodka.
    Imagine a situation where the NATO pact is in Ukraine and Finland and where Russia is ahead of it. It is clear what would happen, they would be accused again of putting pressure on Armenia, Kazakhstan, but this time they would also mention national minorities in Russia. The policy of sanctions is not directed against Putin and the Russian authorities, as they like to say in the West, but is directed against the Russian people. Of course, through sanctions, the West wants to turn the Russian people against their own government, as they did against other countries that have been under long-term sanctions.

    "SUPERIORITY"; And the story of the F-35 is American nonsense, because in the past 30+ years, the Americans first fired cruise missiles at every opponent (cruisers, destroyers, LA-class submarines, strategic bombers), and only after that will be included the USAF and aircraft carriers. That is why every pro-NATO fanatic is bothered when next is mentioned; Russian hypersonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles, air defense systems, EW systems, GLONASS global surveillance, Tu-160 and MiG-31, nuclear weapons. and WHY is that so ?
    Because no opponent of the United States or the NATO pact had the above-mentioned systems, so the worn-out story of how NATO planes are superior is always included. People in the West are silk and have become accustomed to a fairly comfortable life, so I doubt very much that they are ready to lose all that in the conflict with Russia.
    When the West writes about the US army, it is like writing about Sparta, although the fact is that the US did not defeat Japan with honor. Yes, they destroyed their navy and air force, but they did not get Japan on land. And then, with a disgusting decision, they dropped two atomic bombs because they had NO army or readiness to bear the huge number of American soldiers killed, which would have been inevitable if they had decided to invade Japan.
    The Russians set out on the path of RECIPROCITY. Yes, it is cheaper to make dozens or hundreds of Kinzhal and Zircon missiles than to produce hundreds and hundreds of new fighter jets.
    A pro-Western journalist told a military analyst the following in a TV show in Serbia; "Are you saying the West hates Russia?" The analyst calmly said the following to the journalist; "Yes, that's all they can and have been doing for centuries - to hate Russia and nothing else."

    I’m sorry they bombed your country. But you are kind of a goodball. The Americans don’t use sanctions or fire barrages of cruise missiles because their military is weaker. They do this because they fight with every single advantage. Even if it’s 100% confirmed that the f35 can slaughter every single flanker and felon jet Russia has Americans would still do sanctions and fire missiles first to weaken their opponent. You completely misunderstand their tactics and their strategy. They fight to win in these kind of wars.

    Morals have very little to with it as well. They nuked Japan because fighting a ground war against religious fanatics was pointless and a waste of time. Also the Japanese weren’t saints. All of the dirty shit they did to POWs and raping all those Korean and Chinese women. Don’t get me started. Morals are irrelevant. America nuked them because it was convenient for them and no one could stop them.


    Their BVR and air superiority tactics are well proven. Especially when the Israelis put a bunch of Soviet instructor pilots in the dirt during the Arab wars with Egypt.

    All of those responses with hypersonic missiles and zircons and Khinzals. Those are strategic weapons. By even bringing them into discussion you are acknowledging the inferiors of the Russian airforce to the Americans and their doctrine.

    Their f35 was kept out by s400 in turkey and is more of a submarine anyway

    It wouldnt last against Su35 in IADS

    F22 even less

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    Post  bitcointrader70 Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:08 pm

    “Sultan” wannabe Erdogan is trying to create his own empire. American f35s come with too many restrictions and babying.

    Them choosing s400 over f35 had nothing to do with performance. It was all about his politics. Also s400 vs f35 is a different argument than su35/su57 vs f35 as opposed to f35 vs s400.

    Also this website severely underestimates how good amraam is. It’s active radar homing and has passive homing to counter jamming.


    Amramm D is not an old missile. And when Americans get aim260 online it will be an even worse situation for Russia unfortunately.

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:17 pm

    You're just repeating Abhirup Sengupta's nonsense.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Su35 has absolutely zero chance against the f35.

    The Su-35 can detect the F-35 before it enters the NEZ of the AIM-120D, which has an active X-band radar terminal seeker using a solid-state transmitter and a built-in radio frequency processor. The only wavelengths that the AMRAAM operates on is the 8-10 GHz X-band frequency range, which is easy to be blocked by the DRFM-capable Sorbitsya Russian ECM systems and the new KNIRTI Khibiny blocking pods carried by the variants. from Flanker.
    The KNIRTI L175M Khibiny M jamming system uses multiple techniques, including DRFM and spot-jamming, to which AMRAAM is particularly susceptible.
    DRFM (Digital Radio Frequency Memory) blocking or replay blocking is a replay technique that manipulates incoming radar energy and retransmits it to change the echo that the radar sees. This technique can change the range the radar detects by changing the delay in transmitting pulses, the speed the radar detects, changing the doppler shift of the transmitted signal or the angle to the plane using AM techniques to transmit on the radar side lobes.
    The AIM-120B/C/D's home-on-jam (HOJ) feature works when the missile's receiver detects signals that did not come from its transmitter, and locks onto the source transmitting them.
    But the HOJ feature doesn't work against DRFM.
    The DRFM used in KNIRTI is more advanced; DRFM digitizes the received signal and stores a coherent copy in digital memory. When necessary, the signal is replicated and retransmitted. Being a coherent representation of the original signal, the transmitting radar will not be able to distinguish it from other legitimate signals it receives and processes as targets.
    As the signal is stored in memory, it can be used to create false targets behind (reactive blocking) and in front (predictive blocking) of the target intended for protection. KNIRTI goes a step further, generating signals that indicate a false distance and location for passive guidance on the HOJ.
    Spot jamming occurs when a jammer focuses all of its energy on a single frequency. While this severely reduces the ability to track the jammed frequency, a frequency agility radar would hardly be affected because the jammer can only jam one frequency at a time. However, the AIM-120D can only operate in the X-band frequency range.
    The KNIRTI L175M jammer is said to be an effective ECM against more advanced AESA radars, so it can easily confuse the AMRAAM's radar detection head.
    Russia also produces other ECM systems, one of which is the SAP 518, used in the Su-30 and Su-34. SAP 518 is DRFM class too and is produced by KNIRTI (Kaluga Research Radio Engineering Institute).
    The manufacturer says it operates in the 2-18 GHz range and is also made to jam radar-guided air-to-air missiles like the AIM-120.
    Your idea that the Su-35 has absolutely zero chance against the F-35 is just bullshit.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:The technical result, the achievement of which the invention is directed, is to reduce the magnitude of the aircraft radar visibility to an average value of the order of 0.1 – 1 m 2 .

    "Russian designers say that while 4 generation fighters using almost 5 generation technology showed up on radar as objects the size of a football(~0,038m2), the T-50 shows up on radar as a object the size of a tennis ball(0,0033m2)..."
    https://youtu.be/KvyAbM67yKI

    Well, you see the video, read the patent and maybe you're wondering "why do they have such different RCS values?", well the reason is simple, any aircraft doesn't have one RCS value, the RCS varies with a lot of parameters such as the direction the radar is pointing at the aircraft, just as radars operating in different bands can get different RCS values ​​against the same aircraft.
    The Su-57 having an RCS of 0.1-1m2 from unspecified angles and frequencies will not prevent him from getting lower RCS values ​​in other circumstances.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:That’s comparable to a clean Super Hornet and it shouldn’t be a surprise when Su-57 follows many of the same RCS-reduction measures such as using radar blockers to hide the engine face instead of an actual serpentine duct.

    Radar blockers were used on the F-117 and X-32, and that never stopped them from being considered stealthy and unless these RCS values ​​were obtained at the same aspect angle, frequency and polarization, which I doubt, this is a silly comparison.
    The main solution to reduce radar visibility is internal carriage of weapons.The shape of the airframe must be selected to reduce the number of directions in which electro-magnetic waves are reflected, and to ensure these directions are the safest. SU-57 has canted and mostly serrated surfaces to redirect radar energy. It’s smoother and more streamlined with less discontinuities. The F-18, with the exception of the v-tails, and intakes has no other canted surfaces, there are no trapezoid style shaping in the wings or bays and its full of discontent.
    The NO36 radar arrays are deflected from the vertical plane, thus deflecting the enemy radar’s radiation aside. The domes of the arrays are selective, they let their own signal pass through and block other frequencies. In addition, the compartments for these arrays feature RAM coatings on their edges to absorb ‘freak waves’ (which occur when a wave is amplified after multiple reflections within an enclosed space).
    It is impossible for an F-18 to ever match the RCS of the SU-57.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:It’s not just Su-57 being less stealthy than F-35 (-40 dBsm) – it has a 1,000 times bigger RCS. Since detection range is proportional to the 4th root of RCS, a 1,000 times bigger RCS equates to 5.6 times greater detection range. And this is after giving Su-57 every benefit of doubt, the F-35’s RCS is very likely closer to -50 dB.

    Having an RCS of -40 dBsm at a narrow angle is useless:
    https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/f_35_metal_rcs.png?w=768

    The slightest change in the position of the radar relative to the aircraft would change the RCS tens or even hundreds of times.
    The average RCS is much larger:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDhFxjtVUAoCDvs?format=jpg&name=large

    bitcointrader70 wrote:The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.

    The Su-35's radar has a range against air targets of up to 350km and a sector of vision in azimuth is ± 120°.
    In comparison, the APG-81 has a range of up to 160km and an azimuth vision sector of ±60°. And this gap will certainly be even bigger when compared to the Su-57's radar.
    and in terms of EW there is nothing the F-35 does that the flankers already do with their electronic warfare pods.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Where F-35’s DAS make it the only Fighter to fully operate in the IR spectrum


    About the Su-35:
    "the I-222 optoelectronic reconnaissance system developed by NPK SPP provides detection of air targets by INFRARED radiation with selection of missiles attacking the aircraft, as well as aircraft laser irradiation detection..."
    https://www.sukhoi.org/products/samolety/256/

    bitcointrader70 wrote:while turning a blind eye to the fact Su-57 use a UV based Missile Warning System – making Su-57 significantly vulnerable to BVR missiles.


    And you are turning a blind eye to the advantages of using the UV sensor.
    The MAWS sensors that operate in the ultraviolet spectrum (from 0.2 to 0.5 microns) are used to detect the emissions from the burning of the engine jets, taking advantage of the fact that the ozone layer filters the ultraviolet energy from the sun. This means that few natural sources could give false alerts like welders, halogen lamps, fires and sparks. The ultraviolet spectrum also penetrates battlefield smoke, contributing to its efficient use in detecting missile launches.
    Another advantage is that they are small and do not need refrigeration.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:forcing Su-57 to fly with R-77, R-74 externally (as they won’t fit inside).

    doesn't fit inside?!
    The Su-57 has two tandem main internal weapon bays each approximately 4.4 m (14.4 ft) long and 0.9 m (3.0 ft) wide, the R-77 has a length of 3.6m, a diameter of 200mm and a wingspan of 350mm, the Su-57 can carry a minimum of 4 R-77s internally.

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    of non-existent L band radar.

    Unfortunately for you it exists, and it will give the Su-57 capabilities that F-35 pilots can't even dream of.
    Search, track and missile midcourse guidance against low signature aircraft.
    Identification Friend Foe / Secondary Surveillance Radar.
    Passive angle tracking and geolocation of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters at long ranges.
    Passive angle tracking and geolocation of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
    Passive angle tracking and geolocation of hostile (i.e. Western) IFF and SSR transponders at long ranges.
    High power active jamming of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters.
    High power active jamming of satellite navigation receivers over large areas.
    High power active jamming of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
    High power active jamming of guided munition command datalinks over large areas.
    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-06.html

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    Post  TMA1 Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:21 pm

    Nah I'm not buying the National Intetest tier arguments. For example the su57 the dircm turrets scan in the near and mid IR range and the UV detection sensors are just part of a multispectral suite. The primary 4adar is a gallium arsenide based AESA with 11 kilowatt max transmit output. It is very good. The software is very good. It also uses cheek arrays and gallium nitride based L band radar arrays.

    The fighter has many tricks up its sleeve. The f35 does as well, and it indeed excels in stealth. That said I would be wary of falling into the usual fanboi tropes and hubris. We dont know the full capabilities of either fighter. They are both incredible.

    This same nonsense happens with the su35. I remember hearing stuff like the SAR resolution for the irbis e was beyond three meters squared. This was used as proof that it was "80s tech". Come to find out the irbis e s
    SAR resolution is under one meter squared. What many people dont know is that the irbis e is not at all obsolete and is a hybrid PESA with totally up to date software. Not just this many dont know that even older radars can be heavily upgraded with powerful computers and software updates.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:30 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:“Sultan” wannabe Erdogan is trying to create his own empire. American f35s come with too many restrictions and babying.

    Them choosing s400 over f35 had nothing to do with performance. It was all about his politics. Also s400 vs f35 is a different argument than su35/su57 vs f35 as opposed to f35 vs s400.

    Also this website severely underestimates how good amraam is. It’s active radar homing and has passive homing to counter jamming.


    Amramm D is not an old missile. And when Americans get aim260 online it will be an even worse situation for Russia unfortunately.


    Has nothing to do with politics but performance

    Erdogan was almost hit by AMRAAM Aim 120, so he put up s400 to block the skies from it

    Combined with Su35 it's obvious why Turkey simply declined the f35

    It's not going to protect you , Turkey as the 2nd strongest army of NATO showed what is qualitatively a necessity for its airforce

    And the Su35 and S400 work together, like the f18 and E2 , or f15 and e3

    It's obvious why Israel prefers F15 and F16, because those aircrafts at least allow Israel to carry munitions with some minimum performance. 

    They would not dare to use f35 in Syria,  and that sums up why the F35 is at best a non stealthy submarine 

    USAF copies Su35 and Su30sm2 superior aircraft with the F15SM and F16SM, they also could not master super maneuverability,  with 2d vectoring as opposed to 3d 

    Where Su35 can absolutely destroy any aircraft within IADS , with data linking from NEBO M and Yenisei

    It's a done deal, the f35 is better in the ocean

    AMRAAM is a bad missile like AIM9X, Syrian flares can dodge aim9x , and AMRAAM was fired by Pakistanis f16 within NEZ, and Su30 brushed it off with the 3D vectoring superiority

    Remember AMRAAM at even 60km is terrible demonstrated by Pakistan

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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  bitcointrader70 Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:17 pm

    Does su35 have the ability to launch a missile at f35 with data from ground based radar without its own radar having a lock? I doubt it. That would be insane sensor fusion that even Americans couldn’t dream off in their 5th gen jets. Because nebo M uses multiple wavelengths that’s wouldn’t be comparable with r77/74 like S band L band UHF and VHF. It would give the su35 good situational awareness however.

    If su35 jammers can defeat amraam that is definitely comforting but Americans are always working on the next thing. They are sneaky.
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  TMA1 Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:25 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Does su35 have the ability to launch a missile at f35 with data from ground based radar without its own radar having a lock? I doubt it. That would be insane sensor fusion that even Americans couldn’t dream off in their 5th gen jets. Because nebo M uses multiple wavelengths that’s wouldn’t be comparable with r77/74 like S band L band UHF and VHF. It would give the su35 good situational awareness however.

    If su35 jammers can defeat amraam that is definitely comforting but Americans are always working on the next thing. They are sneaky.

    I have heard the su 35 is connected with s400 systems. Not sure of this tho

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35 - Page 10 Empty Re: Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:49 pm

    Su35 dont need radar, IRST and r74 is enough, hel run down f35 at mach 2, and kill him without him knowing

    All he need is s400 datalink

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