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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:02 am

    Eighteen people die of flu in Ukrainian capital, says epidemiological service World January 26, 3:01 UTC+3
    Some 40,000 Kiev residents got infected with flu and respiratory viruses KIEV, January 25. /TASS/.

    Eighteen people have already died of complications after flu since an epidemic began in the capital of Ukraine, Kiev, the press service of the city’s sanitary and epidemiological service reported on Monday. It said 11 people died of confirmed flu over the recent week. Other cases have not yet been confirmed by lab tests, the report said. The service also said that 65 people having flu have been examined as of yet, and the so-called swine flu, caused by the H1N1 virus, has been confirmed in 37 cases.

    Read also Flu kills 60 people in Ukraine — health ministry Swine flu kills three people in Georgia, no risk of epidemic First swine flu death registered in Crimea

    Earlier on Monday, Oleg Ruban, the chief of the Kiev Regional Sanitary Epidemiological Service, said some 40,000 Kiev residents got infected with flu and respiratory viruses. Educational establishments of the capital remain under quarantine restrictions until Wednesday, January 27.

    According to earlier circulated official data of the Healthcare Ministry, a flu epidemic killed 72 people in Ukraine between the end of autumn and January 22.

    Twenty-two people died of pneumonia with suspected viral etiology in the troubled eastern Donetsk region, and 26 deaths from diseases secondary to influenza were confirmed in the Odessa region.

    Swine flu has been raging in Ukraine since December, after hitting the country in the winter season of 2009-2010. A total of 6.355 million people were infected with flu or acute respiratory diseases in the country, and 1,127 people died then.

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/world/852093
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:28 am

    I wonder what 'favors' ole' Joe Biden agreed to, to get his son prepositioned in the right place in Ukraine's troubled hydrocarbon sector:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 F-ukryear-a-20141123
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:37 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:Donetsk is Russia's territory. GG Map admits it. Cool

    I am sure you know but for innocent bystanders who might read this, that's not the DNR Donetsk Smile
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:49 pm

    Optimism is clearly not dead in Kiev.

    KIEV (Sputnik) – It is still possible to reach a settlement on Ukraine's $3 billion debt to Russia outside of court, Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said Tuesday.

    "The dialogue continues still, with the support of the German Finance Ministry, and despite the complexity of the issue I hope that there is till a chance to find an answer outside of court, in the framework of our obligations," Jaresko told reporters.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160126/1033721813/russia-ukraine-debt.html#ixzz3yLmGmHjn


    KIEV (Sputnik) – Ukraine is expecting to receive $10 billion from the International Monetary Fund and other international partners in 2016, Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said Tuesday.

    “We are continuing and are focusing on our reform program [and when implemented], there will be $10 billion from the IMF and other bilateral and multilateral sources,” Jaresko said when asked how much funds Ukraine was expecting in 2016 from foreign lenders.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160126/1033722064/ukraine-imf-international-partners.html#ixzz3yLmjxtlf
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:53 pm

    Followed by a bit of reality from Mr Lavrov

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The West’s extending sanctions against Russia only eggs Kiev on not to fulfill its obligations in the Minsk agreements, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday. “The West’s extending sanctions is understood by Kiev as the West’s agreement that Kiev is fulfilling the Minsk agreements,” Lavrov said during his annual press conference in Moscow. “Why should [Kiev] fulfill these agreements when the West agrees that Kiev doesn’t have to fulfill them?” Lavrov queried.

    The Minsk agreements, signed by the conflicting sides to the conflict in eastern Ukraine, stipulate a ceasefire, prisoner swaps, weaponry withdrawal and constitutional reforms, among other points.

    On Monday, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Kiev’s non-compliance with the Minsk agreements should be discussed, when asked about the practice of linking the lifting of the anti-Russia sanctions to the implementation of the accords on Ukrainian reconciliation.

    The United States, the European Union and their allies imposed and extended a series of economic measures, starting in 2014, against Russia's banking, defense and energy sectors. The West accuses Moscow of interfering in Ukraine's internal affairs, accusations Russia has consistently rejected.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160126/1033717803/west-sanctions-russia.html#ixzz3yLnCZ2n7
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    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:57 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Optimism is clearly not dead in Kiev.

    Forgive my rudeness but I prefer to describe it as "masturbation".
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:43 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Optimism is clearly not dead in Kiev.

    Forgive my rudeness but I prefer to describe it as "masturbation".
    I wouldn't. There is usually some pleasure or release at the end of your suggestion. I don't think Kiev is in line for either.

    I'd just go for 'delusional'.
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:10 pm

    Strip away the grants (few) and loans (many) and this is the real world reality that Kiev faces over the next few years. It is dire.

    Analyzing Ukraine's deteriorating economic situation, Russian journalist and economic analyst Alexandr Sitnikov suggested that instead of gloating over the impact falling oil prices have had on the Russian economy, Kiev should hope that prices rise, since this would be their only chance to revive their own export-oriented economy.

    "The 'barrel' pulls the 'bushel' along with it. That is the logic of world commodity markets," the journalist explains, in a recent analysis published by independent Russian newspaper Svobodnaya Pressa. "Only upheavals in oil-producing areas and crop failures in major agricultural countries are capable of breaking the connection." Moreover, "in terms of their dependence on commodities, the Russian and Ukrainian economies resemble one another, like twins. The difference is that our major export product is oil, and that of our neighbors – wheat."

    "In the past two years," Sitnikov recalls, "hydrocarbon [prices] have fallen much more steeply than cereals. So, on January 21, 2016, the price of Brent crude on the ICE Futures Exchange fell to below $28 a barrel, while a year ago, a barrel sold for $60, and two years ago, for $105. In other words, oil has seen a depreciation of nearly 75%. The average price of cereals in 2014 decreased by 12.5% compared to the previous year, and in 2015, by another 15.4%. In total, over the past two years, the price of cereals fell by about a quarter."

    "Russia's GDP over these two difficult years has fallen by 3.6%, while Ukraine lost more than 20% of its GDP. And although a number of international institutions, including the IMF, predict that Ukraine will win back 2% this year, skeptics, on the contrary, predict further decline." "The fact," Sitnikov suggests, "is that our neighbors face processes reminiscent of the crisis faced by Argentina after the default in 1999. But at that time the global macroeconomic picture was much healthier than it is today."

    To make matters worse, the analyst suggests that Kiev's economic incompetence has only worsened the country's prospects, depriving them of credit needed for economic development. "Simply put," Natalia Yaresko and the Ministry of Finance, by "taking the initiative to 'forgive the country's debts to others', have made a terrible mistake…UniCredit Bank analyst Andrey Prikhodko writes that 'access to public capital markets will be completely closed to Ukraine and Ukrainian companies over the next year.'" "Furthermore, in accordance with the memorandum on the IMF's Ninth Economic Review, the organization will reduce its lending to Kiev by two thirds. Some funds will be forthcoming via the EBRD, but these are just crumbs. In other words, there is no money for development."

    Sitnikov recalled that "in 2014, big business in the US and the EU was eager to revive Ukraine's economy as a warning to Putin. However, senseless acts of cruelty and intimidation by right-wing thugs in Odessa and the Donbass have scared off potential investors. Today, 'there is no sense speaking about queues of investors lining up to open factories in Ukraine', Prikhodko writes. 'The break in economic ties with the [rebel-held Donbass] did not bring any political dividends.'…Whatever Western politicians may say, foreign businessmen have said 'no' to Banderite xenophobia."

    "The new authorities in Kiev simply did not have enough common sense to benefit from the 'demonization of Putin', which in 2014 had become state policy for the majority of the world's leading economies. Now, the Poroshenko/Yatsenyuk government does not even recall that nearly all of America's leading companies had once been willing to implement their own 'Marshall' plans in Ukraine. The fact that Ukrainians live much worse today than they ever did under [ousted president] Viktor Yanukovych is entirely the fault of the current political elite."

    In these circumstances, Sitnikov notes, "Ukraine's economy will have to focus on the production and sale of its basic products – grains, oilseeds and ferrous metals. The problem is that the main buyers of Ukraine's agricultural sector are the oil-producing countries of the Middle East, which have introduced austerity in 2016." "The EU, if it buys anything, does so only via quotas, and at low prices, tying the value of contracts to oil futures. China too cannot be relied upon due to its own slowdown. As a result, Kiev is suffering from the decline in oil prices even more than Moscow. For the record, in 2008, when oil prices fell as a result of the global economic downturn associated with the debt crisis, Russia's GDP fell by 7.8%, and that of Ukraine, by 14.8%."

    Moving on, the analyst noted that "if we talk about metals, here again we find negative processes associated with the global excess in steelmaking capacity, which, according to Ernst & Young, reached 2.07 billion tons. In 2016, Ukrainian production, in all probability, will repeat the decline seen in 2014 and 2015, when production volume dropped by 17% and 16%, respectively."

    Ultimately, citing the UniCredit Bank analysis, Sitnikov writes "that the situation in Ukraine will be able to stabilize only if the average price of a barrel of Brent oil sits at around $55.8. Only then, according to IMF estimates, is 2% GDP growth is possible…In short, Kiev should not gloat over the deterioration of the economic situation in Russia due to falling [energy] prices, and, figuratively speaking, should pray that the world oil market recovers."


    There is a bit more at the link on Russia which I have put in the Russia thread.
    http://sputniknews.com/business/20160126/1033735321/ukraine-global-energy-prices.html#ixzz3yMoBroXE
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:37 pm

    All is normal on the Contact Line in the LPR and DPR

    The Ukrainian party deployed to the contact line with the LPR in the Novoaydarsky area a group of the Polish mercenaries, numbering up to 40 people. It was reported today by the Deputy Chief of the LPR People’s Militia Corps Igor Yashchenko.  ‘In the Novoaydarsky area there was registered arrival of the Polish mercenaries, numbering up to 40 people. They are getting down on 4 cars Toyota Tundra’, he reported. ‘On the sides of their cars there were in the form of a jackal and a wolf paw, and on their uniform there were chevrons consisting of red-white strips, most likely, a flag of Poland, but without inscriptions,’ added the Deputy Chief of Corps.

    ‘Also according to our intelligence information it became known that to the territory of our Republic, bypassing a check point near the locality of the Lugansk Village, under the guise of local population there was planned infiltration of the enemy’s sabotage-reconnaissance groups’, pointed out the representative of the People’s Militia.


    http://en.news-front.info/2016/01/26/kiev-deployed-a-group-of-polish-mercenaries-to-the-contact-line-with-lpr/


    MOSCOW, January 26. /TASS/. Intelligence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has spotted a group of foreign mercenaries arriving to the Donbass’s Volnovakhsky ditrict controlled by Kiev, DPR defense ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin told reporters on Tuesday. "The arrival of 30 people from a private military company communicating in English was registered in the settlement of Mirnoye in 11 kilometers from the contact line," Donetsk News Agency quoted Basurin as saying. DPR intelligence repeatedly reported about the presence of foreign mercenaries among servicemen of Ukrainian Armed Forces and in Ukraine’s nationalist battalions.

    At the start of October, Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada adopted a law "On foreigners undergoing military service in Ukrainian Armed Forces" thus legalizing recruitment of mercenaries.


    http://tass.ru/en/world/852323
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:46 pm

    Another little gem from Fortrus, presented with the first comment. Putin rarely says anything in a forum like this that has not been thought through.

    The President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin at the Interregional forum of the popular front stated the groundlessness of the transfer of Donbass to Ukraine during Soviet times.

    "Moreover, that at a border of multi-ethnicity, in fact, of a unitary state, with borders remotely determined arbitrarily are not always justified. Well, so they put Donbass into Ukraine. Under what pretext? The rising interest of the proletariat in Ukraine for there to be more social support there. Well just look at such nonsense! And this is not the only example," he said.


    Larchmonter445 • 14 hours ago

    This we know. Putin regards the junta as an illegal government. And Donbass inside Ukraine as nonsense. Illegitimate government in Kiev, illogical attachment of Donbass to Ukraine based only on the industriousness of the Russian-speakers in Donbass to support a lazy Ukraine populace. And now we have the Ukies trying to kill the people of Donbass. So, what does this predict in Putin's scheme?

    - That border is never going back to Ukraine.

    - A new legal arrangement that separates Donbass.

    - A document (called a new Constitution) that divides the Ukraine into Novorossiya and Banderaland. And it will be constructed in such a way that it will never be part of the EU.

    - The timetable is the Donbass elections in April. They had been postponed to give Kiev time, which they clearly have thrown away. Those elections or war will take place in April.

    Putin has decided. Nothing can get worse for the sanctions, for the economy or for his foreign moves in Syria. He has the US on its back foot. The US is trying hard to counter the Syrian situation and in Iraq (to keep Russia out).

    Ukraine is facing a decision and a plan. Putin has repeatedly allowed the godfathers (US, Germany and France) to direct Kiev, but each has failed. Russia will reshape Ukraine.

    In less than 90 days.


    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/putin-transfer-of-donbass-to-ukraine-in.html

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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:55 pm

    Brilliant, Hollywood series preparing the US for the partition of Ukraine. Detail at

    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/us-russia-are-preparing-public-opinion.html
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:09 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Brilliant, Hollywood series preparing the US for the partition of Ukraine. Detail at

    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/us-russia-are-preparing-public-opinion.html

    I got first rushes...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CZfsJbZVAAEYUW-.mp4

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:29 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Brilliant, Hollywood series preparing the US for the partition of Ukraine. Detail at

    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/us-russia-are-preparing-public-opinion.html

    I watch Madam Secretary, and noticed what was going on in the episode about Ukraine & Russia.

    The last one, or one of them, the show was pushing the TPP trades deal. ugh.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:29 pm

    (United States) Department of Defense. Department of the Army. Office of the Chief Signal Officer. (09/18/1947 - 02/28/1964) - 1943 - This motion picture film examines the war in Russia, 1941-1943

    Interesting video. I can see now why Crimea went to Russia and will never go back to Ukraine.

    Also why Poroshenko and all Ultra-Nationalists, Neo-Nazis in Ukraine are delusional.

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:51 pm

    Ivan Katchanovski
    3 mins ·
    Facebook

    Unreported Ukrainian court decisions link the Right Sector to the Maidan massacre and an Orthodox Easter attack which led to a major escalation of the conflict in Donbas.

    Several recent Kyiv court rulings suggest that the Right Sector leadership or its covert armed unit involved in the Orthodox Easter attack in Donbas are now investigated by the General Prosecutor Office of Ukraine as suspects in killings of Berkut policemen and Internal Troops servicemen on February 18-20, 2014. These decisions by the Pechersk district court judges in November and December 2015 appeared in the publicly accessible official online database of court decisions in Ukraine, but they have not been reported by the government and the media in Ukraine and in the West. http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/54278484
    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/54672972

    Unreported Ukrainian court decisions also show that the Prosecutor General Office now investigates UNA-UNSO, one of the founding members of the Right Sector, for killings of three first protesters in the end of January 2014, including an Armenian protester and a Belarusian member of UNA-UNSO, and for murdering another protester by cutting his throat on February 18, 2014. The Winter on Fire documentary, which is nominated for Oscar, prominently features killing of Serhiy Nigoyan, this Armenian protester, and attributes his killing and killings of other protesters to the police. I’ll summarize these cases in a separate post. http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/52580748
    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/52580547

    The Pechersk court decisions state that the investigation found that two wounded attackers of a separatist checkpoint near Sloviansk in Donbas at 2:00am on April 20, 2014 used the same weapons which were used to kill two Internal Troops soldiers and wound three policemen on Maidan on February 18, 2014.

    The timing of these investigations coincided with an abrupt resignation of the Right Sector leader and a split in this far right organization. But it is not clear if this resignation and this split are connected to these investigations.

    Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of the Right Sector in his interview with BBC Ukrainian a year after attack said that his first battle was during the Orthodox Easter on April 20 near Sloviansk. http://www.bbc.com/…/pol…/2015/02/150211_yarosh_interview_vs
    The attack of a separatist checkpoint near Sloviansk was the only fighting on that day and in the Sloviansk area. This attack broke the Easter ceasefire between the Ukrainian government and separatists, including a Strelkov-led Russian nationalist armed unit which seized under command of Igor control over this town several days before. It also broke the Geneva accord, reached on April 17, and attempts by the OSCE to negotiate a peaceful resolution of the separatist conflict in Donbas. This attack by the Right Sector, a far right alliance of radical nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations, constituted a major escalation of the conflict in Donbas. At least two local separatists manning the checkpoint and one of the Right Sector attackers were confirmed killed. The killed attacker was later listed as a killed member of the fifth battalion of the Volunteer Ukrainian Corps of the Right Sector on a VK page of this battalion.
    http://archive.is/4a5bM

    A business card of Yarosh, a list with names of several other leaders of the Right Sector, and its Security Service medallion no. 20, which were seized by separatists during the fight, also indicated involvement of the Right Sector leadership or a covert armed group linked to the leadership in the attack. But the involvement of the Right Sector in the attack was immediately denied by the Right Sector, the Ukrainian government, including the Security Service of Ukraine, RNBO, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and the Ukrainian media. They claimed without any proof that the attack was staged by the Russian military intelligence and that the Yarosh business card and other evidence were fabrications.

    An eyewitness reported that a sniper killed one of the separatists at the checkpoint. Expanding bullets of the 7.62mm caliber, which are used by the AKM and hunting carbines based on the Kalashnikov assault rifles, were recovered after this Right Sector attack of the separatist checkpoint. http://www.reuters.com/…/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA3A1B5201…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J3bp6Ml4ag The same caliber expanding bullets were used to kill protesters and the police on the Maidan. However, the official investigations of killings of the police and the Maidan protesters are separate, in spite of various evidence, such as same type bullets and similar wounds reported by medics, suggesting that both the police and the protesters were killed by the same covert shooters from the Maidan-controlled buildings and areas. The same concerns pellets, hunting bullets and 9mm caliber bullets, which are used in Makarov handguns, from which both the police and protesters were killed.

    The Western governments and the media, like in the case of the Maidan massacre, ignored or dismissed evidence of the Right Sector involvement in the Sloviansk attack and stated instead that the responsibility for the attack was unclear and referred to a possibility of a false-flag attack by the Russian Military Intelligence.
    http://www.reuters.com/…/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA3A1B5201…
    http://www.thestar.com/…/truth_a_victim_of_deadly_ukraine_c…
    http://www.theguardian.com/…/ukraine-agreement-falters-shoo…
    http://www.smh.com.au/…/ukraine-crisis-business-card-proof-…
    http://euromaidanpress.com/…/sloviansk-shooting-victim-id…/…

    Comments on my Facebook page and in Facebook groups devoted to the study of Eastern Europe and the Ukrainian far right on April 20, 2014 suggested that the absolute majority of experts on Ukraine and the Ukrainian far right active on the social media shared similar views concerning this attack, while a few other such experts concurred at that time with my analysis of the Right Sector involvement.

    The names of the suspects in the killing of the police are omitted in the publicly accessible versions of the court rulings. Therefore, it is not clear if they are the same as the two members of the neo-Nazi Viking unit of the Right Sector, who have been investigated by the General Prosecutor Office since the end of summer 2015, for killings of the police on the Maidan following a public admission by one of this neo-Nazis. Several other unreported recent court decisions refer to armed Maidan protesters, who are now suspected by the investigation in killings of the police on the Maidan.
    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/52100569
    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/53868110

    In addition, there is also unreported investigation of involvement in the Maidan massacre of two arrested robbers of a jewelry store in Kremenchuk in May 2015. The court decisions reveal that one of these robbers, who wounded several people during this robbery attempt, had a Makarov handgun, whose number matches the number one of Makarov handguns taken during a seizure by the Maidan protesters of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) regional headquarters in Ivano-Frankivsk Region on February 18. 2014. The court decision cites the Prosecutor General Office investigation stating that this handgun used during the robbery could have been used to shoot police during the Maidan massacre on February 20, 2014.
    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/53416626

    The names of these protesters are not made public, but they stated during the robbery that they fought in undisclosed Ukrainian formations during the war in Donbas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqC9SfQZQcw

    Hennadii Moskal, the governor of the Transcarpathian Region, has stated that a handgun, which was confiscated from one of Right Sector activists during their recent attack on a ski resort in this Western Ukrainian region, was taken during the same seizure of the Security Service of Ukraine office in Ivano-Frankivsk on February 18, 2014. A report by the special parliamentary commission, which was headed by Moskal, concluded that it was very likely that the policemen were shot during the Maidan massacre from firearms and ammunition that were seized by protesters from the police, internal troops, and SBU offices and arsenals in Western Ukraine on February 18 and 19, 2014. These weapons included 1,008 Makarov handguns, 59 AKMS (folding 7.62 caliber Kalashnikov assault rifles), two SVD sniper rifles, and various other rifles and shotguns. Their whereabouts previously remained unknown or were not disclosed. http://www.carpathia.gov.ua/ua/publication/content/12885.htm

    The new revelations from the Prosecutor General Office of Ukraine investigations corroborate findings of my American Political Science Association conference paper concerning the involvement of the Right Sector in the Maidan massacre. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2658245
    The same concerns findings of my Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies and the Canadian Association of Slavists conference papers, which concluded that the far right, specifically the Right Sector, played major roles in the Maidan massacre, the start of the civil war in Donbas, and de facto break-up of Ukraine. https://www.academia.edu/…/The_Separatist_Conflict_in_Donba…
    https://www.researchgate.net/…/280114848_The_Far_Right_in_U…

    I mention them because these studies were often singled out for attacks or dismissed because of their findings which went against standard narratives by the governments and the mainstream media in Ukraine and the West and prevailing views among academic researchers. A book chapter summarizing my Maidan massacre study and an advanced online version of a journal article based on my CIUS conference paper on the war in Donbas are scheduled for publication within the next few weeks. http://www.tandf.net/books/details/9781138924093

    http://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/54278484
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:53 am

    Farewell, Antonov.

    And f*** you, Maidan.

    http://www.unian.info/economics/1247099-ukraines-antonov-aviation-group-liquidated.html

    Ukraine’s Antonov aviation group liquidated

    The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine decided on the final liquidation of the State aircraft manufacturer Antonov in connection with the transfer of all of its enterprises to Ukroboronrpom defense concern, the press service of the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade reported.
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:59 am

    I would wager putting all their defense companies into one conglomerate is actually smart.  It would join the revenues of all its defense organizations into one and making it easier to use profits in sales of lets say engines, aircrafts, sub systems and put such profits towards projects like tanks and what not if all under same company.  Doing so means less hands the money goes through as an example.

    But with Ukraine? I imagine they will screw this up.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:54 pm

    This can't be isolated out of control, bored groups, surely?

    MOSCOW, January 27. /TASS/. The Ukrainian armed forces have used the Grad multiple rocket launchers for the first time since the beginning of this year to shell the territory west of Donetsk, the Defense Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) said on Wednesday.

    Commenting on this information, Defense Ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin accused Kiev of flagrant violations of the Minsk agreements. In his opinion, "it cannot be ruled out that the Ukrainian positions close to which the shells exploded could be the target of the shelling with the use of the Grad rocket launchers." "This was supposed to be a pretext for accusing the DPR armed forces of blatant violations of the agreements," Donetsk news agency quotes him as saying.

    According to the defense ministry, the situation along the line of contact has escalated dramatically over the past 24 hours. The Ukrainian military shelled the DPR territory 222 times using the Grad multiple rockets launchers for the first time in 2016 whose projectiles exploded in the vicinity of the villages of Staromikhailovka and Tudovskiye.


    More: http://tass.ru/en/world/852568
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:01 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I would wager putting all their defense companies into one conglomerate is actually smart.  It would join the revenues of all its defense organizations into one and making it easier to use profits in sales of lets say engines, aircrafts, sub systems and put such profits towards projects like tanks and what not if all under same company.  Doing so means less hands the money goes through as an example.

    But with Ukraine? I imagine they will screw this up.
    Maybe another step in the process. Yandex


    The USA does not refuse from the idea to create on the basis of PJSC "Motor Sich" the new defense holding

    January 27th, 0:02 French Bulletin "Intelligence online" in the article "Les republucains volent au secours de Kiev" continues the publication of plans of the USA on creation in Ukraine of a new product vertical on the basis of PJSC "Motor Sich". Our blog publishes the translation of this material.

    The us Congress, where the majority are Republicans, wants to increase the size of American assistance to Ukraine in the field of intelligence and military equipment


    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1700662.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:35 pm

    http://russia-insider.com/en/military/ukraine-builds-one-strike-army/ri12408

    Ukraine using minsk to build a first strike army.  I dunno where they will get the manpower from or the money to build the force.  But I seriously hope novorussia still training its men and obtaining new equipment.  I have not heard much from them since Syria takes all the news.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 Empty reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:29 pm

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160127/1033813951/poroshenko-wants-his-own-missiles.html

    this has to make you laugh and really wonder what goes on in this guys head. where does Poroshenko thinks he's going to get the money to do this??? Ukraine doesn't even have enough to function day to day running of the country and of course it still owe's Russia $3bn+ this idiot really does have his heads up in the clouds and up the EU's ass.
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    Post  medo on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:56 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:http://sputniknews.com/military/20160127/1033813951/poroshenko-wants-his-own-missiles.html

    this has to make you laugh and really wonder what goes on in this guys head. where does Poroshenko thinks he's going to get the money to do this??? Ukraine doesn't even have enough to function day to day running of the country and of course it still owe's Russia $3bn+ this idiot really does have his heads up in the clouds and up the EU's ass.

    Ukraine have their ammunition factory in Lugansk. Ups, sorry Porky, it is in Novorussia. So, new fresh ammunition for Novorussian army and old stocks for you.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:49 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This can't be isolated out of control, bored groups, surely?

    MOSCOW, January 27. /TASS/. The Ukrainian armed forces have used the Grad multiple rocket launchers for the first time since the beginning of this year to shell the territory west of Donetsk, the Defense Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) said on Wednesday.

    Commenting on this information, Defense Ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin accused Kiev of flagrant violations of the Minsk agreements. In his opinion, "it cannot be ruled out that the Ukrainian positions close to which the shells exploded could be the target of the shelling with the use of the Grad rocket launchers." "This was supposed to be a pretext for accusing the DPR armed forces of blatant violations of the agreements," Donetsk news agency quotes him as saying.

    According to the defense ministry, the situation along the line of contact has escalated dramatically over the past 24 hours. The Ukrainian military shelled the DPR territory 222 times using the Grad multiple rockets launchers for the first time in 2016 whose projectiles exploded in the vicinity of the villages of Staromikhailovka and Tudovskiye.


    More: http://tass.ru/en/world/852568

    I read this also.

    &

    "Faking history is a form of burning books. Where books are officially burned, people follow. It’s already happened— on 2 May 2014 in the Hall of Trade Unions in Odessa set on fire by Kiev-junta-related neo-Nazi thugs. Over one hundred people died, including women and children. This was real history and real terrorism happening. The media ignored it."

    Faking History

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/26/faking-history/

    “This is the final struggle

    Let us pull together and tomorrow
    The Internationale
    Will be the human kind.”

    — Written by Eugene Pottier in 1871, “The Internationale,” is the anthem of socialists, communists, anarchists, and social democrats. Anti-fascist Republicans sang it during the Spanish Civil War (1936-39).

    Singing “The Internationale” today in Ukraine is punishable by up to ten years in prison. The Kiev Rada passed a law in December making it a crime to deny the “criminal nature” of the Soviet regime (1917-1991). From selling a Soviet-era postcard, to membership in the communist party, to singing the Soviet national anthem, the law penalizes all symbols and activities connected to the USSR.

    Volodymyr Chemerys calls attention to the law’s violations of human rights in a recent article in CounterPunch:



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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:54 pm

    from Alex Thorn on twitter

    Eastern Ukraine / 'Azov' positions

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 CXz2VQbUkAAXmbM

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 CXz2f2AUAAA_wX3

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 CXz2gBvUQAIqXa6

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #23 - Page 21 CXz2yDMUQAA4IDw
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:02 am

    But with Ukraine? I imagine they will screw this up.

    The idea of forming all your little MIC companies into one big company makes a lot of sense if it is managed correctly and of course there are enough company components working well to carry the ones that are not working so well until they can get up to speed.

    there are good times and lean times in most areas of military production... the challenge is to manage production capacity so when it is needed it is available, but that you don't create too much production capacity that will not be used and therefore all that money is wasted.

    It also means management can be optimised and reduced, while the manpower that actually does the work producing hardware and software can be maximised making it more productive.

    Of course I do hope they wither and die because at the end of the day they are not only competition for the EU and US military companies, but also for Russia on the international market... I doubt they could compete on an equal footing in terms of quality, but desperation, political pressure from their allies, and simply being very low cost by not actually paying their workers can get them sales.

    Not really sustainable but someone will make money while the rest take IOUs.

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