That is plain and simple not true. Beside that our own research found out the oil trade is done from a russian citizen.
Weak. It is irrelevant who is behind it... the simple facts are that it is the TURKISH/Syrian border... it is not Russia or anyone else that controls traffic through that border.
beside that we dont see how russia is against ISIS, so far russia does supportbthem and attacks enemies of isis.
The Russians are there to fight terrorists... those in Syria who are not part of the legitimate Syrian government. That means every group with guns that is not part of the Syrian government force is fair game.
and to those who dream about attacks against turkey or our government. They should know that russia is far more vulnerable than in turkey.
Russia is not interested in fighting Turkey, Russia has known enough conflict to know not to seek it.
the most laughable part is, that russia did not sanction the nuclear power deal or their planned pipeline. We think about ending those projects ourself and i support this.
why should we do such massive business deal with a country that is hostile with our nation?
You are quite right... before Turkey stabbed Russia in the back these projects made a lot of sense and would be beneficial to both countries. Controlling the Russian gas entering the EU would have given a lot of political power to Turkey and of course earned them a lot more money as a gas transit nation, and nuclear power stations should have improved the electrical power potential of the country without problems with CO2 emissions, and the Russians would have made a lot of money building those NPPs and would be able to thumb their nose at the EU and say screw you guys we will just sell lots of gas to turkey and you can sort your gas supplies with them on their terms... they are not part of the EU so your rules wont apply to them either.
Turkey could have used this to force EU membership, or they could use it to make the EU pay for all these years of BS.
Well it isn't going to happen now.
the problem in this forum is the total inability to understand that another nations interest might not be the same as russian interests.
Your leader clearly thinks what he is doing is in the best interests of Turkey, we understand that.
The thing is that not shooting the plane down in the first place and there would be no problem, shooting it down and apologising it would be less of a problem, shooting it down and demanding an apology from Russia is the stance turkey has taken.
First of all there is no evidence that Turkey actually felt threatened or that there was any incursion into Turkish territory at all.
In which case this is just spite... so there is no point creating economic and political ties with Turkey while Erdogan is in power... much the same as ties with Georgia had no future with Saakashvili in power.
Considering the fact that large parts of the russian people live under extreme poverty it might be good to do a reality check and get used to that idea.
Well that is even better... why would Turkey want more power over the EU and more stable reliable electrical power supplies if it means dealing with poverty stricken Russia.
Russia doesnt have the international power to keep Assad in power. Evry single neighbor is against assad and will never accept an alawite as president of an 80% sunni nation. Its that simple.
You mean they wont now? I would suggest that the fact that they have been in power (father and son) for the best part of half a century means Syrias neighbours have put up with it for some time already... what has changed? Sour grapes over the sunni iraqi government being overthrown?
considering our own economic boom and russias economic downfall as well as international isolation, its pretty clear who is stupid and who not.
So rich is good and poor is evil... I guess your trade with terrorists has made you stupid as well as rich.
GarryB you know he is a fucking troll, trolls are against forum rules ban him already. Patient or not there are limits to what you have to tolerate and trolls are not part of what you have to tolerate nor anyone else here. He is not a member of this forum whatsoever.
As far as I can tell he is expressing his opinion. The fact that it contradicts the views of many here does not make him a troll though I do agree it is a very fine line.
Or do you want a "Russia is perfect" fan club site where Russia can do no wrong and everything is the fault of the jews/US/EU/NATO/Girl Guides.
We dont need russia but would prefer good relations. If russia wants conflict with us, so be it.
It is pretty clear that Russia has put forward its position and it is up to Erdogan to solve the problems with an apology and tight border controls to stop terrorists using turkey to support their operations.
Assad has no support in the sunni world. Its that easy. No sunni will ever live under this idiot. The rebellion is openly escalating and there plain and simply is no way back.
There is likely no support for Erdogan in the baptist christian world... WTF would he care about that for? Assad is the leader of Syria... why should he care about what Turkey or Saudi Arabia think?
syria as a nation is dead. Its time to accept this. Wonder how russians imagine all this will work. Do they think we all off a sudden lose our face and start dealing with Assad? I would like to know this idea they have about this.
You have so many faces... what difference would it make?
This is nothing to do with Turkey and everything to do with creating peace and stability in Syria so they can then have free and fair elections and move on without further bloodshed.
You want to bet that Russia makes Turkey Die faster? They only need to arm the Kurds.
I rather doubt the Russians would arm the Kurds as that would come to bite them in the ass when (not if but when) they turn on the Syrian government because the Syrian government is currently the weakest at the moment.
This is russia against Turkey. No matter how much Putin tried to spin it, people always stand for their nation. So no matter who next turkish government is, nobody won´t be a traiter and deal with an enemy (russia).
Except the Syrian people I guess... are they supposed to stand for Turkey or ISIS?
Hahahaha.... yeah Russia against Turkey... I am sure that is how Erdogan is trying to spin this... I thought you said you weren't a fan of his?
As for russian tourists, they were poor. Thats the main problem why most caterers didn´t want them. Russians don´t bring profit. They book all inclusive, never leave the hotel and spend no money. Many hotels didn´t even want russians as tourists plain and simple because they have little market value / cross selling.
So there is no problem and you can leave this forum... you said you feared the effects on the Russian tourists going to Turkey, but clearly they are a burden for your country and things are now better...
I give you a reality check. The turkmens will never, ever accept any government under Assad and most likely not even be part of a new "syrian" state.
What they accept is not important... if they want to stay they can ignore who is in power... if they want to do something about it they can vote or they can raise arms and die... or they can move north.
Russia couldn´t hold Ukraine but plans to hold syria.
What? Crimea is Russian. The eastern areas of the Ukraine a eastern areas of the Ukraine and not Russia. Russia has made no effort to take or seize any part of territory that does not vote to be part of Russia.
But thats just one point. No sunni will keep living under a kafir president any longer.
So if Erdogan says fuck chickens you will do it because he is your president, but if Assad says don't fuck chickens these idiots will fuck chickens just to spite their president.
Interesting... and a little disturbing.
But even russia knows it can´t hold Assad in power against the will of its most powerful neighbours.
Putin has already said this is not about Assad... it is about Syria and not letting it collapse into a shithole like Libya that the west created with its support for rebels but no support for creating a nation after the fighting was over.
Assad and Syria can only stabilize when they deal with Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Thats a basic fact.
Why? Iran is stable yet not really on friendly terms with any of those three terror supporters.
I´m interested in you point of view regarding that. How will you bring my nation, saudi arabia, jordan, emirates ect together with Assad and make us to accept him? Because without that syria stays what it is, chaos.
Well it is interesting that you are admitting which countries are behind all the chaos and suffering in Syria.
Perhaps Russia will realise that there is no point negotiating with terror supporting countries and just do what it knows is right... like in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the Crimea. Sure they are not superpowers now with amazing economies but they are free to make their own decisions without fear from Kiev or Tiblisi.
That said it amuses me to read delusional stuff from 3rd worlders here.
That is really funny... because I come from New Zealand which is technically the first world... but of course it is a first world rating system, and by my reckoning, the commies in the eastern europe block were the second world, europe being the first world and everyone else is the third world... so that makes a third world person (you) calling a second world group (the Russians) your equal...
I think most first worlders would laugh themselves silly at that... but not me... I think the first, second and third world division of the people of the world to be racist and frankly stupid.
Judging others using terms used by those that don't accept you either is all sorts of funny to me... but in a rather sad way.
The idea is to get the third world to fight amongst itself while the first world plunders their resources while it can...
Russia and Iran will make syria prosper? Good luck. last time i checked both nations are shitholes.
And there you go... you should be here thinking the current situation is perfect and ideal... cutting ties with Russia is the best thing Turkey has done in the last 5 years... no poor Russian tourists sucking the life out of turkey, you can get gas from lots of other places... buying it from russia was clearly charity on your part, and now Russia is a poverty stricken shit hole.
I guess you now have no reason to keep posting here and you can leave... though I am guessing you will tell us all how evil and bad we are for not being a Turkey is wonderful website.
Ironic if you look at some of the threads about turkey before the turkish air force murdered a Russian pilot and marine.
Thats exactly the reason why i believe russia should seek a far more friendly course with us. We are here to stay. God made us neighbous. We beter sort this out and act friendly with each other.
Can't see them doing that while you open fire on their aircraft.
Erdogan just said in TV it doesn´t matter what russia buys or not.
He said: who cares what you buy or don´t buy? We find someone else who will."
What else would he say? Turkey buys Russian gas for the same reason the EU buys it... it is cheaper that all alternatives. If they could get gas from anywhere else for the same or a similar price they would because they don't want to buy stuff from Russia if they don't have to.
I am sure the US will build a nuclear power plant in Turkey.
You will be fine without Russia and Russia will be fine without you.
Without the gas pipeline of course Europe will have even less reason to accept you as an EU member...
Pride can be very expensive... but then cultures where honour killings are acceptable.. such BS is important.