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    A-235/PL-19 Nudol ABM-ASAT

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:49 am

    GarryB wrote:
    But at least the yanquis know that Russia is testing ABM missiles and can afford to do so. <snip> I think that the Kinzhal tells us that Russian solid rocket fuel tech has leveled up and so the A-135 will get a faster and more powerful
    successor.

    Well what it might show is that the Russians have had an ABM system operating around moscow for the last 45-50 years and it seems to be able to do its job, but new developments in scramjet technology might effect things... a vertical launch up through the atmosphere is one thing but a launch sideways at a target that might be 1,000km away could use a scramjet motor to fly the distance within the atmosphere rather high up at rather high speeds... this offers potentially enormous range for SAMs of the future and indeed AAMs of the future too... jet engine range with rocket engine speeds...

    Anything that increases the range of the successor to the A-135 allows for more effective interception. This aspect is not going to be apparent from the video.
    I assume the yanquis have a satellite detection network that can track the range of this test. That would send them a message.

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:27 am

    The problem is that their politicians get intel that shows them all sorts of things yet when they have an agenda... which they all do, they seem to be able to ignore information that does not suit their narrative... anything even remotely suggesting Iraq had WMDs was believed and anything that showed that it was rather unlikely was totally ignored and suppressed... in such a prevailing situation I would not hold much hope for common sense and logic.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am

    https://russia-insider.com/en/leading-us-military-magazine-says-russia-years-ahead-missile-technology-russian-tv-news/ri27201

    More info.
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    Post  Arrow on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 am

    In fact, the short-range missile has changed its specifications. Its range increased to about 1,250 miles. wrote:


    Laughing Laughing Laughing 53T6M is a short-range ABM missile.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:57 am

    Hole wrote:https://russia-insider.com/en/leading-us-military-magazine-says-russia-years-ahead-missile-technology-russian-tv-news/ri27201

    More info.

    I like the mini interview lol1 very professionnal :

    Evgeny Tishkovets is going to tell us why it is so unique.

    - Hello, Evgeny.

    - Hello.

    - What are the targets?

    - All potential threats to objects on Russian territory.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:30 pm

    Hole wrote:https://russia-insider.com/en/leading-us-military-magazine-says-russia-years-ahead-missile-technology-russian-tv-news/ri27201

    More info.

    Thanks for the link. The solid rocket fuel has indeed been one of the main advances behind these new ABM rockets. The 2000 km range is impressive for
    an ABM missile. Consider the depth of the atmosphere and any ICBM warhead maximum altitude. It is going to be below 400 km during its re-entry phase even
    if it hits a peak altitude over 1200 km. This means that this ABM missile will be intercepting such warheads up to 1600 km away from their intended target.
    The interception window is also increased allowing more time for adjustment to optimize the interception. This is why the system is now one ABM interceptor
    per incoming target.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:41 pm





    US ABM interceptors are noticeably slower than the Russian one (53T6M). The 53T6M can be used in both the A-135 and A-235 ABM systems.

    (PS. I know that the final speed of the US ABM warheads can be very large, but such slow launches mean that the interception window is smaller).

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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:57 pm

    I dont know if this missile is the 53T6M

    I know after looking online someone posted an infographic that the missile looks very similar to that of the S-300V4 and that its launch system fits inside that very launch tube shown.

    https://imgur.com/wlXwBob

    dunno why non of the photos are showing up now.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I dont know if this missile is the 53T6M

    I know after looking online someone posted an infographic that the missile looks very similar to that of the S-300V4 and that its launch system fits inside that very launch tube shown.

    https://imgur.com/wlXwBob

    dunno why non of the photos are showing up now.

    OK. It is another model. But the same innovations apply.

    The A-235 system is supposed to be mobile and silo based and looks like intended for national coverage instead of just Moscow.

    It is ironic, and delicious, that the yanquis will be facing a Russian ABM system superior to their own. They thought they could
    pull one on Russia, but got the snookered.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:18 pm

    The transport vehicle and the transport/launch canister look like that of the PRS-1M missile which is supposed to be "short-range" (300 - 400km), but according to the TV program it is a different missile with a range of 2.000km. Now either the missiles are mostly the same in size and weight (different warheads, targeting system, one missile faster) or they are different but use the same canister. dunno
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:51 am

    The model of Nudol that we have seen seems to have two long slim missiles side by side on a launcher... this is the old Galosh system which is more arrow shaped and pointy:

    A-235/PL-19 Nudol ABM-ASAT - Page 5 C6lfah10

    A-235/PL-19 Nudol ABM-ASAT - Page 5 C6lfzb10

    A-235/PL-19 Nudol ABM-ASAT - Page 5 Img_8710
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:26 am

    From my understanding the new Nudol missiles will still be using the conventional hypersonic design, and not the waverider design like Zircon. I think once the development cycle of Zircon is finished, we will likely see a 'modest' upgrade/modernization of all the relevant long range SAM/ABM missiles to incorporate the new design.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:01 am

    Or they use this canister because it fits into the silo on the testing ground and put different missiles in it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:44 am

    But if it is a mobile system wouldn't they want to also test the TEL too?

    If it is going to be a mobile system there is no advantage to testing it in a silo except if in operation they are going to be launched from said silos.



    I guess it might be that they want to test to see if it is an option to load existing silos with the new missiles as well as using them in the new mobile transporter erector launcher... but to be honest the size difference between the new missiles (on models) and the old silos make it rather unlikely.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:38 pm

    If you "just" want to see how far the missile can fly… why not use a silo?

    The current situation is really confusing. There is the A-235, the 14Ts033 Nudol and S-500. Sometimes the systems are mixed up in some news/TV pieces. Missiles are tested, one source claims it was for the S-500, another one claims it was Nudol. Then sources claim that some missile will be used in the A-235 and Nudol system. Or that the systems are identical. Then a another missile is tested which supposedly belongs to Nudol and someone claims it was an S-500 missile…

    Seems deliberate. Twisted Evil

    Confuse your enemy. unshaven

    I guess we must wait until next years speech from Mr. Putin when he will show the new defensive weapons to the world.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:48 pm

    Hole wrote:If you "just" want to see how far the missile can fly… why not use a silo?

    The current situation is really confusing. There is the A-235, the 14Ts033 Nudol and S-500. Sometimes the systems are mixed up in some news/TV pieces. Missiles are tested, one source claims it was for the S-500, another one claims it was Nudol. Then sources claim that some missile will be used in the A-235 and Nudol system. Or that the systems are identical. Then a another missile is tested which supposedly belongs to Nudol and someone claims it was an S-500 missile…

    Seems deliberate. Twisted Evil

    Confuse your enemy. unshaven

    I guess we must wait until next years speech from Mr. Putin when he will show the new defensive weapons to the world.


    That may be true, but A-135, A-235, S-500 do not refer to specific missiles but missile complexes. The video asserted that the 53T6M can
    be used in both the A-135 and A-235. The S-500 will likely use a less explosive launch class missile since it cannot reproduce the conditions
    of a silo. A missile similar to the US GBI seems like the slow launch interceptor it is likely to use.

    Russia has retained the 1960s type of hyper-launch missiles. For some reason the USA has not.

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    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:38 pm

    Russia may be conducting Nudol tests

    Russia appears to be testing its Nudol ASAT system from Plesetsk. It issued a NOTAM warning that closed several areas on 14 June 2019. The closed areas look very much like those that were closed in April 2018 and in December 2018.

    Interestingly, these areas were closed again on 30 June 2019. It's possible that it was the 14 June test that was postponed, rather than the second test in about two weeks.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2019/06/russia_may_be_conducting_nudol.shtml
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:18 am

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    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:59 pm

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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:29 pm


    After this video we can say that Nudol (ASAT) and A-235 (ABM) are completely separate products

    We should split this topic
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    After this video we can say that Nudol (ASAT) and A-235 (ABM) are completely separate products

    We should split this topic

    i am confused on this. From discussions in this topic i haven't a clear conclusion. Some say that these systems are connected some other that are seperate
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:59 pm

    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    After this video we can say that Nudol (ASAT) and A-235 (ABM) are completely separate products

    We should split this topic

    i am confused on this. From discussions in this topic i haven't a clear conclusion. Some say that these systems are connected some other that are seperate

    Missiles are clearly different

    Speed and trajectory differ and that's without going into significant difference in sound
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:08 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    After this video we can say that Nudol (ASAT) and A-235 (ABM) are completely separate products

    We should split this topic

    i am confused on this. From discussions in this topic i haven't a clear conclusion. Some say that these systems are connected some other that are seperate

    Missiles are clearly different

    Speed and trajectory differ and that's without going into significant difference in sound

    Yes, I think the last missile was for the A-135 and was significantly faster. This one is a bit slower and yes, flew at an angle afterwards.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:46 am

    The S-300V family of missiles use different missiles too, and the S-400 system has at least 4 missiles too.

    The SA-12 system has two distinctly different missiles, both on tracked TELs, with one having two very large launch tubes and another with four smaller launch tubes in a single row of four missiles.

    The different missiles have different performances and are optimised for different targets and situations.

    After this video we can say that Nudol (ASAT) and A-235 (ABM) are completely separate products

    One of the reasons ABM systems were so limited and effectively banned was because they could also be used to shoot down satellites as the speed performance is very very similar.

    A missile able to hit an incoming ICBM or SLBM could easily be modified or might already be able to hit satellites in orbit too.

    With older Soviet and Russian SAMs that could hit shorter range BMs like Scud etc the issue was not apparent because for example Favourite being able to hit 4.8km/s targets... no in orbit satellite moves that slow, as well as the fact that the missile can only operate within the atmosphere.

    New systems that operate outside the atmosphere that can hit targets moving much much faster and obviously there becomes little difference between hitting something coming down on a ballistic trajectory and something in orbit, which is also a predicable trajectory if you can reach it.

    Yes, I think the last missile was for the A-135 and was significantly faster. This one is a bit slower and yes, flew at an angle afterwards.

    Depending upon the payload the flight speed is not actually that critical to determine what the target is... in fact if the target is in geostationary orbit you are going to need a lot of fuel to get the payload up there so it will be much slower than a missile going after a target in much lower orbit.

    Most of these weapons could be ABM as well as ASAT... just the same as their late model large SAMs are all ABM as well as SAM and anti cruise missile weapons too.
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    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:53 pm

    Possible test of Nudol from Plesetsk

    NOTAM watchers noticed that Russia closed a number of areas that suggest a flight test of the Nudol interceptor from Plesetsk on 15 November 2019. There is no official (or otherwise) word about the test, though.

    If it was a test, it would be the second Nudol test in 2019 - the previous one was apparently conducted in June 2019. The entire system appears to be what is known as 14Ts033 (14Ц033), with the 14А042 missile.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2019/11/possible_test_of_nudol_from_pl.shtml

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