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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:45 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Putin pissed off at the one-sided press leaks.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin reminded the Dutch prime minister of inadmissibility of 'tossing' press versions of MH17 plane crash that are politicized.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Vladimir Putin discussed the inquiry into the Malaysian Airlines MH17 aircraft crash in eastern Ukraine in a telephone conversation with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, the Kremlin press service said in a statement Thursday. “The investigation of the Malaysia Airlines plane crash on July 17, 2014 in Ukraine was discussed, mutual interest in its effective holding was emphasized,” the statement said. The remark comes a day after some details of the final investigative report by the Dutch Safety Board emerged in media outlets.

    In particular, CNN reported, citing sources familiar with the investigation, that the inquiry into the MH17 crash had found that responsibility for the tragedy should primarily be put on eastern Ukraine independence supporters, and, partly, on the carrier.

    Putin clarified Russia’s position on "premature" initiatives of creating an international tribunal on MH17 crash. “Putin explained in details Russia's position regarding the premature and counter productive initiatives of several countries, including the Netherlands, to establish an international tribunal to prosecute those responsible for the Malaysian airliner’s crash,” the statement said.

    Earlier in July, it was reported that Malaysia had submitted a draft resolution to the UN Security Council. The initiative was backed by Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and Ukraine.

    Kiev blamed the independence supporters in eastern Ukraine for shooting down the plane. However, local militia insisted that they did not possess weapons capable of bringing down an aircraft flying at 32,000 feet. Russia has repeatedly stressed the importance of a transparent international investigation into the tragedy.

    The Dutch Safety Board is due to release a final report on the tragedy in October 2015.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150716/1024699609.html#ixzz3gAgvF5uv


    Can it get any more farcical and grotesque than this? So the Kiev regime has zero responsibility for allowing civilian air traffic over
    a war zone with anti-air craft missile complexes in play? How does the carrier (Malaysian Airlines) get part of the blame and not
    Khuyiv? Ridiculous to the Nth degree.

    How about the ATC tapes that the Kiev regime refused to release? Who needs them, eh? If Russia gets pinned with this
    pathetic Washington psyop it should lash back hard. Ban all NATO commercial air traffic crossing Russian territory.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:55 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Is it popcorn time? Regardless, I feel slightly wrong about the situation in Zakarpatiya and wishing that shit hits the fan. I don't want to see innocent civilians get slaugtered like in the East but I also realize it's the West that started this whole mess so perhaps it's time for them to go through the same as the ones in the East. Maybe the war can be over sooner this way.

    Aren't Trans-Carpathia and Galicia completely different things? Galicia is the home of Ukrainian Nazism while Trans-Carpathia is more suspicious about Kiev?
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:28 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Is it popcorn time? Regardless, I feel slightly wrong about the situation in Zakarpatiya and wishing that shit hits the fan. I don't want to see innocent civilians get slaugtered like in the East but I also realize it's the West that started this whole mess so perhaps it's time for them to go through the same as the ones in the East. Maybe the war can be over sooner this way.

    Aren't Trans-Carpathia and Galicia completely different things? Galicia is the home of Ukrainian Nazism while Trans-Carpathia is more suspicious about Kiev?

    Galicia was part of Austria/Poland. Trans-Carpathia belonged to Hungary/Czechoslovakia.
    Unsurprisingly, there are some important differences between them.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:40 am

    Meanwhile the gravy train rolls on. This time screwing Ukrainian farmers by allowing large quantities of Canadian food in free of tax. In return some Ukrainian goods get free access to Canada, not things like steel but chocolate. Does that ring a bell? This is a couple of excerpts from http://johnhelmer.net/?p=13775#more-13775

    Canada – bless its maple-leaf heart – has given Ukraine C$400 million in cash since last September to help the Kiev government finance its civil war and debts. This week in Ottawa, with the signing of a free trade agreement between the two governments, the Canadians aim to claw back the cash by obliging Kiev to allow a surge of imports of Canadian cereals, meat, timber and other products. Until now Ukrainian producers of these goods have resisted, blocking the Canadian imports for fear they will damage the Ukrainian market and domestic earnings.

    Canadian officials acknowledge that for Ukrainian steel, which is currently barred from entering the Canadian market at dumping prices, there will be no change, and the new agreement will make no difference.

    “Harper is saving the Ukraine by damaging its farmers,” a Toronto source says, “and keeping Canada’s steelmills protected from one of the few exports the eastern Ukraine can still turn out. If that’s not cynical politics for gullible voters, I don’t know what is.” According to another Canadian analyst of the Ukrainian conflict, “this is money-making for a small circle of Ukrainian-Canadian business figures, their friends in Ottawa, and the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine.”
    .......................................
    Officials in Ottawa won’t say what has happened to the C$400 million in Canadian loans, issued to Kiev at an interest rate of 1.43%, in September and March. Audit and accountability requirements in Canadian law for the money have been suspended in Ukraine’s case.
    ........................................
    The official Canadian list of Ukrainian exports to benefit from new duty-free entry to the Canadian market includes “sugar and chocolate confectionery”. This refers to the leading Ukrainian exporter Roshen, which is owned by Poroshenko. Since becoming president in Kiev in May of 2014, Poroshenko has been promising to sell out. However, the collapse of his business in Russia, and decline of sales in Ukraine, have lowered the value of his asset. He reportedly wants $3 billion; Nestle of Switzerland is offering one-third as much.
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    Post  Teshub Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:45 am

    A new interview of Wimmer, former vice-president of the OSCE, who once again states the US uses the OSCE to spy and post false biased reports.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb-oLcbtYWg
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    Post  Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:55 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:I personally don't buy the excuse that the VSU is strong enough to prevent a full out assault from the NAF for a while now. I really don't think that many other people buy that excuse too especially after the events of Debaltsevo and Iloviask. I have to believe that other outside forces are holding the NAF's leash right now.

    The NAF is still outgunned and outmanned by the VSU despite the successful efforts to shrink the gap between them.
    A full-out assault against the entrenched VSU would fail, unless Russian ground forces assist once again.
    Outgunned? Not as much as it would appear on paper. No country without air superiority has won a war for nearly a century now. The NAF closed the skies to the VSU completely. Like North Vietnam did to the US. This war is now dictated by artillery and the NAF is very close to the VSU in terms of their firepower nowadays.

    Outmanned? The gap is steadily shrinking as evident through the multiple mobilizations the Ukrops had already.

    All the NAF needs only advisers and some aid. The counterattack a few weeks ago proved that the NAF can hold their own in an assault and they can do quite well too without any direct help from the Polite PeopleTM. The NAF was able to inflict heavy loses on the VSU and able to take their positions. Why the NAF decided to back down later is another matter.

    Could the NAF wipe out the VSU and their friends? Unlikely, without major loses and without major help.

    Could the NAF push the VSU forces further back? Given the right geopolitical climate there is good reason to believe that the NAF is strong enough to push the Ukrops further back now.
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:I disagree with Debaltsevo. The cauldron should have been formed back last summer not in February. And for all the forces that the Ukrops had there it didn't take long at all to cut them off. Sure the NAF may have gotten some help from our boys from Buryatia, but it was painfully obvious that the VSU wouldn't last long against the NAF.

    Have your read about the problems of the NAF during the battle for Debaltsevo?
    Doesn't really matter at the end. From where I was sitting, it was obvious that the VSU wouldn't win. Even at the beginning. Western MSM also quickly realized this and attempted to turn the Ukrop forces into tragic heroes.

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:I'm sorry, but I think you make the VSU stronger than they are. The most effective defensive weapon they have is the Minsk Agreements and the OSCE to prevent the Rebels from tearing them apart.

    And you are underestimating the VSU. It has gotten stronger since summer 2014.
    Just because it can't win the war, it does not mean that it is doomed to lose the next battle.
    Fair enough.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:56 am

    Strelkov updated the following after Moscow VIP visit:

    1. Ministry of Defense dissolved

    2. Zackarcheko replaced

    3. Givi and Motorola and their battalions Somali and Sparta gone

    4. Republican Guard dissolved
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    Post  franco Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:20 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Strelkov updated the following after Moscow VIP visit:

    1. Ministry of Defense dissolved

    2. Zackarcheko replaced

    3. Givi and Motorola and their battalions Somali and Sparta gone

    4. Republican Guard dissolved

    Link please.
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    Post  Erk Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:22 am



    Jul-17-2015 Military Report of Novorossia
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:28 am



    From Lvov to Russia with Love!


    onwiththewar
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    Post  onwiththewar Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:04 am

    franco wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Strelkov updated the following after Moscow VIP visit:

    1. Ministry of Defense dissolved

    2. Zackarcheko replaced

    3. Givi and Motorola and their battalions Somali and Sparta gone

    4. Republican Guard dissolved

    Link please.

    I found similar text from Strelkov's own vk page.

    http://vk.com/novorossia_sz


    Комментарии и ответы полковника.

    Коротко по изменениям в ДНР.
    1. Минобороны расформировано. Пан Кононов назначен заместителем командира корпуса с обязанностями "подай, принеси, пошел на... "
    2. Батальон "Сомали" расформирован.
    3. Республиканская Гвардия расформирована и в ближайшее время будет раскассирована по частям Корпуса Народной Милиции.
    4. Куда денут "Моторолу" и "Гиви", пока не знаю.


    Comments and Responses colonel.

    Briefly on changes in the DNI.
    1. Defense Ministry disbanded. Ban Kononov was appointed deputy commander of the corps with the duties of "Bring, bring, go to ..."
    2. Battalion "Somalia" disbanded.
    3. The Republican Guard and disbanded soon be raskassirovana for housing parts of the People's Militia.
    4. Where disappear "Motorola" and "Givi" do not know yet.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:12 am

    onwiththewar wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Strelkov updated the following after Moscow VIP visit:

    1. Ministry of Defense dissolved

    2. Zackarcheko replaced

    3. Givi and Motorola and their battalions Somali and Sparta gone

    4. Republican Guard dissolved

    Link please.

    I found similar text from Strelkov's own vk page.

    http://vk.com/novorossia_sz


    Комментарии и ответы полковника.

    Коротко по изменениям в ДНР.
    1. Минобороны расформировано. Пан Кононов назначен заместителем командира корпуса с обязанностями "подай, принеси, пошел на... "
    2. Батальон "Сомали" расформирован.
    3. Республиканская Гвардия расформирована и в ближайшее время будет раскассирована по частям Корпуса Народной Милиции.
    4. Куда денут "Моторолу" и "Гиви", пока не знаю.


    Comments and Responses colonel.

    Briefly on changes in the DNI.
    1. Defense Ministry disbanded. Ban Kononov was appointed deputy commander of the corps with the duties of "Bring, bring, go to ..."
    2. Battalion "Somalia" disbanded.
    3. The Republican Guard and disbanded soon be raskassirovana for housing parts of the People's Militia.
    4. Where disappear "Motorola" and "Givi" do not know yet.

    And what would be the point of all of this?
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    Post  auslander Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:06 am

    Very little on the Strelkov sight is from him. Novorossiya News says the reports of Somali etc being disbanded and MoD removed is not true. Who to believe? We will know in time.

    The now usual bombardments were off and on all night and continue sporadically this morning. OSCE is still not visible in Novorossiya to any great extent. I stand by my earlier statement that the moment the OSCE operatives began to be photoed and ID'd they left.
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    Post  whir Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:28 am

    opasnie wrote:Tanks Novorossia at positions near Marinka
    1st Tank Battalion of the Republican Guard holds positions near Marinka. At any point, tank crews prepared to comply with the order of command and go on the offensive, or to repel the attack of the enemy.

    ExBeobachter1987
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:44 am

    auslander wrote:Very little on the Strelkov sight is from him.

    Hasn't he stated that he does not use vk?
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:59 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    auslander wrote:Very little on the Strelkov sight is from him.

    Hasn't he stated that he does not use vk?
    That VK page is not Strelkov. The only online info that comes from Strelkov is by him using "Kotych" and that a screenshot is taken of whatever he posts as proof that it is him, not some unattributed quotes.
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    Post  Cyberspec Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:02 am

    It's been denied in the DPR....probably just Strelkov trying to stay in the news and appear relevant
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    Post  auslander Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:05 am

    Khepesh wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    auslander wrote:Very little on the Strelkov sight is from him.

    Hasn't he stated that he does not use vk?
    That VK page is not Strelkov. The only online info that comes from Strelkov is by him using "Kotych" and that a screenshot is taken of whatever he posts as proof that it is him, not some unattributed quotes.

    That VK page does from time to time have what are supposedly 'interviews' with him, hence my term of 'very little' which should have been 'very little, if anything'.

    I have also noticed that a few sights which did from time to time have verifiable by cross checking information have deteriorated considerably over the last three or so months. For at least some I think that with the slowdown of active combat in that time frame the flow of funds has dropped considerably, case in point is 'Strelkov', anti-maidan which is becoming more and more commercial oriented and infested, and a very popular and well known blog that at least some of us have posted on from time to time. Then there was that information infused and very informative mp sight Rolling Eyes which I was foolish enough to look at yesterday. 'Nuff said about them.


    Last edited by auslander on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:06 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    We have seen pics of NAF infantry with Shmel launchers, but does NAF have any artillery systems capable of firing thermobaric or cluster munitions?
    One battery of BM-30 is known to exist. I think part of the large booty collected by Bezler last summer along with 2S5, "Zoopark" radar etc etc
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    Post  Rodinazombie Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:46 am

    I dont bother reading too much into what strelkov says thesedays, he has been out of the game for the best part of a year now and has not much higher value than the other multitude of armchair commentators on the situation.

    When he was in novorossia we all suspected he was just just the press guy, if he was in charge he would have been actually leading the troops rather than sitting in front of a camera all day or writing articles online etc etc.

    Thats not to say he has nothing useful to say, on the contrary in fact, but i cant help but be unsure of his motives now that he has been estranged from novorossia.

    Sorry monarchist.
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    Post  onwiththewar Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:57 am

    Khepesh wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    auslander wrote:Very little on the Strelkov sight is from him.

    Hasn't he stated that he does not use vk?
    That VK page is not Strelkov. The only online info that comes from Strelkov is by him using "Kotych" and that a screenshot is taken of whatever he posts as proof that it is him, not some unattributed quotes.

    I found this image (using google's image search) which seems to contain a screenshot from that mysterious "forum" where Strelkov posts stuff.

    Legit or fake ?

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 31 Kvjd9ILdp_c

    Apparently other vk / livejournal pages all quoted from this one ?

    PS. I then found what appears to be the actual link to the original post.

    https://forum-antikvariat.ru/index.php/topic/216540-zapad-vs-vostok-ukrainy-7/page-481

    Author of the post is "Котыч" which is "Kotych", right?



    Last edited by onwiththewar on Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  whir Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:20 pm

    There's nothing to se here, move along Rolling Eyes.

    "24TV via Google Translate wrote:"Галицькі сепаратисти" у Львові вимагали автономії регіону
    "Galician separatists" in Lviv region demanded autonomy
    11:40, today

    "Galician separatists" in Lviv region demanded autonomy The wages of meeting / inlviv.in.ua
    Yesterday, July 17, around 17:00 in Lviv collected "local separatists" who demanded to grant autonomy to Galicia.

    As the newspaper writes local Inlviv.in.ua, all participants had a paid actors. Symbolically, the action took place near the circus. People holding posters: "Freedom Galicia" "Galicia Autonomy" and so on.

    Psevdoaktyvisty promitynhuvaly no more than 10 minutes, then with them paid off.

    Thus, asking people to recognize that financed this pseudo rally and call the police or the Security Service.

    As we have previously reported that in some areas of the city were inscriptions: " Junta - a ruin " and other separatist slogans. Continue reading.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:35 pm

    No comment


    Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh believes that the time has come to speak of the resignation of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who Yarosh said is "out of his place", the Ukrainian TV channel 112.ua reported.

    Yarosh claimed that an information war against Right Sector has been launched in Ukraine and that the "incident" in Mukachevo is being used as a pretext to destroy Right Sector structures.

    He expressed surprise about the fact that the authorities were quick to label Right Sector members involved in the Mukachevo standoff as gunmen without charge or trial.

    Yarosh also said that Right Sector's previous demands for the resignation of Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov remain in force.

    At the same time, he did not exclude that his organization may call for "the reset of the entire system of power." According to him, a Right Sector congress, which will be held in Kiev next week, should decide on the further actions of the organization.

    "We understand that this [Avakov's resignation] will not resolve the problem. I see that the President of Ukraine is out of his position, in terms of his capacity as both the commander in chief and the person who effectively directs the state," Yarosh said. According to him, "it is already necessary to speak about the resignation of the President, the dissolution of this Verkhovna Rada [Ukraine's parliament] and, accordingly, the resignation of the government."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150718/1024777572.html#ixzz3gEoX0DjW
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:06 pm

    onwiththewar wrote:

    I found this image (using google's image search) which seems to contain a screenshot from that mysterious "forum" where Strelkov posts stuff.

    Legit or fake ?

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 31 Kvjd9ILdp_c

    Apparently other vk / livejournal pages all quoted from this one ?

    PS. I then found what appears to be the actual link to the original post.

    https://forum-antikvariat.ru/index.php/topic/216540-zapad-vs-vostok-ukrainy-7/page-481

    Author of the post is "Котыч" which is "Kotych", right?

    It is a real post, but as for whether anybody wants to believe it or not, or what it actually means, is another matter. The other day Basurin called Strelkov and Petrovsky provocateurs whose words have the effect of helping Kiev. As I said yesterday it is all a "game", tho a dangerous game that cannot be played for long as it effects the morale of the people and gives ammunition to Kiev to also join with these "games". Ukrops are trying to make a rumor that Bezler returned to Gorlovka and is planning a coup against Zakharchenko. This is very obvious crap, but such rumors spread, get contorted even from the original bullshit and some in the confusion will believe. http://informator.lg.ua/?p=106237
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    Post  Neutrality Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:19 pm

    NAF apparently tried to push to Mariupol.

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