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    2S19 MSTA-S 152mm

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:30 am

    Suppress artillery and mortar fire, tanks and anti tank fire (ATGM), electronics (drones? and comms nodes), etc etc... sounds like they are optimising them for conflicts like Syria to take on a wider range of targets as a lower cost alternative to air strikes...
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:15 pm

    Latest Msta-S artillery systems arrive for troops in Russia’s south

    The upgraded howitzers feature a new automated fire control system, a higher rate of fire and the possibility to use digital electronic maps to accelerate finding positions on the terrain, according to official data

    MOSCOW, March 16. /TASS/. The latest artillery systems arrived for the Southern Military District’s 49th all-arms army, the District’s press office reported on Monday.
    Read also
    Troops fire Msta-S artillery guns to strike enemy command posts in Urals drills

    "Two artillery batteries have been reamed with the improved 152mm 2S19M2 Msta-S self-propelled artillery guns capable of firing Krasnopol precision guided munitions," the press office said in a statement.

    "The Msta-S artillery system has considerable design differences from the previous modification," the press office stressed.

    Specifically, the upgraded howitzers feature a new automated fire control system, a higher rate of fire and the possibility to use digital electronic maps to accelerate finding positions on the terrain.

    Msta-S self-propelled artillery guns can also "fire high-explosive fragmentation and rocket-assisted projectiles — jammers," the press office said.

    https://tass.com/defense/1130667
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:17 pm

    A question:  do naval guns have the same range and rate of fire of their land equivalent?
    I mean comparing as an example a 130mm naval gun with a 130 mm artillery gun?

    It is because I read about a 30 km range for the 152mm gun 2S19 MSTA, and longer ranges for smaller naval guns (also because there are currently no naval guns in service bigger than 130mm).
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:23 am

    Tthe main problem is the different calibres used and the different guns for each calibre.

    The 152mm calibre has been used by the Soviet Army since before WWII, but different 152mm guns can use different types of ammo... a bit like 7.62mm rifle calibre ammo effectively the 7.62x25mm (Tokarev) pistol and SMG ammo from WWII is the same calibre as the 7.62 x 39mm rifle, assault rifle and LMG calibre (SKS, AK, RPK respectively), and the 7.62 x 54mm R rifle and LMG and MMG calibre also uses the same diameter bullets but the shell case contains different amounts of propellent leading to very different performance... and it is the same with 152mm artillery ammo in Russia.

    Also important is that some guns are howitzers and some are guns, and different weapons have different barrel lengths which also effects performance like range.

    The Soviet Navy during WWII had a wide range of gun calibres that are too numerous to list, but after WWII they settled down on fewer and fewer types... 30mm gatlings largely replaced the various 37mm and 45mm anti aircraft guns, while in larger calibres they had 57mm and 76.2mm and 100mm as well as 130mm guns and the occasional 152mm gun... but the current generation they have 100mm guns the size and weight of the old 76.2mm guns, 130mm guns the size and weight of the old 100mm guns and the 152mm guns are no longer used.

    The Soviet Army no longer uses the smaller calibres for artillery and largely settled on 122mm and 152mm guns as normal standard, while 125mm high velocity guns are used as tank guns and they have a 152mm replacement that is developed but not deployed and they are gradually withdrawing the 122mm guns in favour of 120mm gun/mortars.

    Generally naval guns can be bigger calibre and longer ranged because weight is not important and recoil is very efficiently absorbed by water.

    The naval version of Coalition might be a twin gun arrangement simply because there is plenty of space and capacity for an enormous amount of ammo... turret rings on ships can be as big as you want to there is plenty of potential to absorb recoil and fit all sorts of auto loading mechanisms.

    Right now the Russian Army has the range advantage because they still retain 203mm guns with roughly 50km ranges, and of course the Coalition 152mm guns with 70km range and soon mini shells with 180km range are possible too, but while 203mm land guns are a niche weapon that might only be used when its specific capacity is needed, a naval model might be useful for a landing ship or helicopter carrier for example... a 100km range with a large projectile would be useful all weather day night fire power.

    The Soviet fleet reactivated the Sverdlov class to use their 152mm guns for fire support for landing operations, but they never really had ocean going landing ships able to make proper landings away from the reach of Russian land based air power, so with these new helicopter carriers they are building they might start improving their gun artillery capacity to support landing operations cheaply and simply.

    The new Russian ships have corvettes with 100mm guns where previously they had 57mm or 76.2mm guns, while their frigates have 130mm guns where previously frigates had 76.2mm or 100mm guns, so for their destroyers the question is will they use the 152mm guns developed together with the Russian Army? I would expect so, but do they use those same 152mm guns for Cruisers as well or go for an upgraded 203mm gun for cruisers?

    The point is that any money spent developing 203mm guns and new long range and accurate ammo types can be used with army equivalents so costs can be shared and certainly for the Navy a good 203mm gun would have serious benefits without many of the problems much bigger guns can introduce... 203mm is still reasonably manageable and in terms of performance a 110-130kg shell is rather more effective against bunkers and strong points than any number of 50kg 152mm shells...

    New ammo for Coalition (which also has a longer gun barrel and more propellent options) has been tested to 70km and what I presume to be a reduced payload round has been suggested with a range of 170-180km... for light targets. Such rounds should be compatible with a naval gun mount in 152mm calibre too of course...
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:33 pm

    Msta-S self-propelled guns hit targets at distance of 15 km during Kavkaz exercise

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