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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:29 pm

    franco wrote:The developer announced the beginning of state tests of the K-16 BTR on the Boomerang platform

    The new K-16 armored personnel carrier based on the Boomerang unified wheeled platform will enter state trials this year. Alexander Krasovitsky, general director of the Military-Industrial Company, told Interfax about this.

    This year the K-16 is going to state tests. Preliminary tests of the armored personnel carrier were completed last year, the car received the letter "O" - he declared.

    According to Krasovitsky, the K-16 BTR is a fundamentally new vehicle in the armored personnel carrier class, developed with a high level of protection, a new transmission and control system.

    (...) all modern achievements of science and technology have been used in the design; it can be said that a breakthrough in engineering is laid in this machine. If necessary, you can control the machine remotely, that is, the chassis information and control system supports all functions of robotic movement - added the general director of the military-industrial complex.

    Answering the question about the creation of a wheeled tank on the Boomerang platform , Krasovitsky explained that such a tank would be created corresponding to the task at hand, but at the moment there was no such order.

    As for the possibility of creating a wheeled tank on this base, this is not a problem. If we are given such a task, we will certainly fulfill it. - he specified.

    The general director of the military-industrial complex announced in December last year that the state tests of the K-16 armored personnel carrier (BTR) and the K-17 wheeled infantry fighting vehicle (BMP) on the Boomerang platform will begin in the spring of 2021, but did not give a more precise date. According to him, both vehicles, which had previously completed preliminary tests, were modified taking into account the wishes of the Ministry of Defense. At the same time, it was reported that new models of armored vehicles would be created for passing state tests, taking into account the comments of the military.

    Ok,an excellent new but coupled with an "as I said you earlier" confirmation of the fact that a Tank version of it have not even been asked for A.T.M.
    Yes, they said it is in the plan, their own I would dare to say, but it seem more a whishful thinking for the future than an actual perspective to me...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:05 am

    They already use vehicle families to reduce the number of different types of vehicles in use, the current development of three vehicle families is intended to replace all existing vehicles.

    It would make no sense having a Boomerang family force that is highly mobile and fully amphibious but has to drive slow so the Armata tanks can keep pace and can only cross at fords or bridges that can take a 55 ton vehicle.

    They are not going to introduce 27 versions of all four of the vehicle families... the light weight typhoon family almost certainly doesn't have a 125mm tank gun armed gun vehicle... maybe a 57mm gun armed vehicle but certainly not 125mm smoothbore or 152mm artillery vehicle.

    These new vehicles will be introduced and new variants also introduced to replace other vehicles in the formation in a cascade most likely... where a force that will eventually become a medium wheeled force will have its BMPs and BTRs replaced with Boomerangs... K-17 for the BMPs and K-16 for the BTRs... for the time being the MBTs in that formation will continue to be T-90s until the Boomerang T-14 variant is ready for testing and use.

    For a heavy Armata division then the T-14 will replace the MBTs and the T-15 the BMPs, while the BREM engineer vehicles will be replaced with the T-16 engineer vehicle.

    The tanks and BMPs and BTRs being replaced will be sent to units with older models and their vehicles will cascade so that the oldest model vehicles will be removed from service as the new vehicles enter service then other vehicles will be replaced.

    The systems will be unified so the T-14 gear for the MBT will be the same with the same turret on the Kurganets and Boomerang models... as I said I don't think there will be a Typhoon light version but with other vehicles and types they could have similar vehicles.

    For a very light Typhoon unit the gun platform might have a 57mm gun for instance.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:25 pm

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:18 am

    The Polish jackass Damian, the Abrams fanboy who Mindstorm shoved his boot so far up his arse he was dry-heaving his bootlaces for a week, and was driven off the forum...had this to say about the parade version of K-25:

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 Ext7gOxWUAQp7WW?format=jpg&name=large

    Funny that it needs these bouyancy side modules to be poperly amphibious, and do not have spaced armor in the front. Polish Borsuk is definately a better design in regards of both amphibious capability and front armor protection.

    https://twitter.com/DRatka1/status/1376845319510630400

    The Polish Ballsuk Borsuk IFV in reference... clown clown clown  
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 ORsq9fGDhPYgkvGL6dBxjilJ2t2C56E9viQT6upiSQw

    This cocksucker actually thinks the PolePolishers are capable of creating a better IFV? I mean there armor industry is barely better than Ukraine's right now. Also, for reference Damian didn't even make it '20' posts in before he permanently rage-quitted off the forum lol! Razz lol1 Razz lol1

    Some of the on forum references:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/spa/Damian

    Damian's absolute bullshit claims about Leo-2 have aged horribly, and the Turks lost 10 Leo-2's in Syria by the end of 2016.
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 C0qww7xUUAEM6_x?format=jpg&name=900x900

    The point where Mindstorm ran him out of town for his laughable eyeball armor measurement ability:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5066p250-tank-warfare-russian-armour-vs-western-armour#13748

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:58 am

    The Borsuk is, pardon my french, a glorified M113 excreted by a post-colon armor industry that can't even modernize itself without the handholding from Hans and Hyung Kook. Its hot garbage; boasting antiquated protection means and even more archaic firepower suite, and its not even wired to connect to a unified tactical control system - pretty unthinkable for what is ostensibly a next gen vehicle.

    In fact I'm pretty sure Russians considered and discarded somethign very similar in favor of the current Kurgy:
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 DpzmxrpWsAAjEJL?format=jpg&name=large

    So, the Poles are literally rolling with second rate designs the Russians themselves regurgitated. How nasty.


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:44 am

    The very shallow angle of the upper front of the vehicle means making it rather thick would only mean anything for vertical top attack weapons, and considering that is where the engines are there is little need in super heavy armour there.

    A normal shot from the front will come in sideways so its actual thickness would be irrelevant and it is only protecting the engine.

    The whole concept of these vehicles is to protect the crew and the troops so to skim a round off the upper front hull would hit the unmanned turret... so it could go right through that without risking any troop or crew member. It is the troop compartment and the crew capsule that are armoured complaining the engine is not well protected... well you can't put heavy armour on everything without making a 50 ton western piece of crap.

    If you want a mobility kill just take out the vehicles tracks... the intention of the vehicle design is to protect the men inside it, not the weapons or the engine.

    BTW the side armour likely includes both spaced armour for buoyancy and protection... it is amusing that he thinks that is bad.

    As mentioned that polish vehicle looks like a Kurganets made love to an M113... which is what Israel is producing at the moment too...

    The real question is... what is this Polish vehicle.... a BMP, or is it a complete vehicle family able to replace all the vehicles in a Polish armoured division.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:12 pm

    Thing is, even the BMP-3 had more or less STANAG level 6 protection, so frontal armor 30 mm autocannon APDS/APFSDS rated at quite close range under 500 m. We can quibble on how much better Western 30 mm are but whoever cares they have almost similar impact energies and the means to stop them would not differ much. That means the Borsuk, even before rolling out of the production line already has had its main armament rendered obsolete. It wasn't even on the drawing board and the main gun was already obsolete - it was barely a spark in the dendrites of the designer's brain it was obsolete.

    Of course, the Bushmaster autocannon can always be upgraded to a 40 mm calibre with relative ease. However, the Kurganets would not share the BMP-3's level of protection either. With at least 7 tons of mass advantage it should have more substantial improvements in protection despite its larger size overall. Toss in an unmanned turret, modern lightweight materials, and incorporating the design lessons of the last 30 years from Chechnya, Iraq, and Syria the improvements in ballistic protection would've been more substantial than what the mass increase might suggest.

    And the armor scheme of the BMP-3 was pretty clever despite all the sacrifices they have to make pertaining to making it a more mass production friendly vehicle. The BMP-3 made use of a monocoque Aluminium hull and a one piece shell turret, both just cleverly angled and more importantly rather cheap and easy to make. Together with the dozer and wavebreaker the ballistic protection of the BMP-3 from the front was more than enough, and if ever something does get through it would still have to penetrate the inner layer of fuel tanks. Very simple but very effective ballistic protection for the time.

    The Kurganets, in contrast, could be made with a higher tolerance of higher per unit prices than the Soviets would have liked. The Kurganets since it has a front armor layout could make use of the more complex but weight efficient Object 299 armor scheme where an initial layer of armor would be focused on fragmenting and yawing incoming projectiles. The fragmentation and yawing effects would be allowed to develop over the substantial stand-off due to the powerpack present, making it substantially easier to stop the residuals with maybe a fuel tank layer and then a second layer of armor. This is a pretty massive improvement in protection that a single calibre leap or two might not even surpass. I doubt even the Supershot 50 mm calibre with 1 MJ can even reliably overcome the Kurganets armor if its shot beyond point blank ranges.

    Haven't mentioned side protection but even the BMP-3 had excellent side protection available to it. The BMP-3 can be kitted out with Relikt 4s24 ERA to the sides and supposedly these could protect even against the tandem warheads of the RPG-29. Could be exaggeration, but what is certain is that no NERA can attain a similar level of effectiveness - and that the side armor modules of the Kurganets have enough space inside to house ERA cassettes. The Kurganets thus can pretty much boast not just high protection against ballistic threats from the front against in class threats but the sides as well.

    Thus the only reliable way available to take the Kurganets out with the Borsuk would be at this point be with a top attack munition - if it didn't came out with a pretty substantial upper hemisphere protection suite that is. It also only has the two Spike missiles which makes it difficult to saturate even just one vehicle. You'd sooner run out of missiles than the Kurgy obscurants. You can turn to the tanks for assistance, but the Kurgy stands a good chance of killing the tanks with its own Kornet missiles.

    tl;dr: GG; no re.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:28 pm

    Kurganets-25 recovery vehicle with ERA side modules:
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 EyDTirtWgAMJZPk?format=jpg&name=medium

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:47 am

    That is odd... looks like it has the 12.7mm Kord turret of the APC models of new vehicles... anyone know what that flat thing over the rear hull is?

    Would have thought a recovery vehicle would have cranes and blades and other engineer equipment...

    Did the location you found it mention a code?

    BTW I would add in terms of main gun the Kurganets has the 57mm grenade launcher which has an APFSDS round vastly more powerful than the 30mm APFSDS it used to carry with its 2A42 cannon.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:29 am

    The flat thing is normally where you'd put the spare powerpack for field replacements.

    The crane and dozer blade are all there, just on the wrong side from where the image was taken from:

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 0mnIhfg

    I don't know if this has been posted before but here:


    Look at the front armor of this thing:
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 BVfJWKt

    Driver seats upright behind the backwards opening hatch. That means all the space beyond him is half of the final drive and the front armor.

    There are two thick cables running around the sides and are draped to the front lip of the wavebreaker - those are the magnetic signature enhancement device, useful for pre-detonating magnetic fuzed overflight anti-tank munitions.

    Of course there is the dozer blade protecting the lower hull. As if the whole thing wasn't overkill from the start already.

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    Post  Hole Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:30 pm

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 E0k19d10

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:40 pm

    Note the transverse layout of the powerpack in the parade vehicle. The serial version would have a longitudinal arrangement instead indicated by the driver position on the port side of the hull.
    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:26 pm

    Comparison of silhouettes of the new Polish Borsuk IFV and Kurganets-25
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 D-7cvk10

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    Post  Scorpius Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:33 pm

    The domestic armored personnel carrier "Boomerang" can be controlled even from a mobile phone. This was stated on the air of the RBC TV channel by Alexander Krasovitsky, General Director of the Military-Industrial Company LLC.

    "This" Boomerang " we have today is controlled from a mobile phone. It can move back, forward, turn the turret, barrel. We see the fuel supply, we see the oil temperature, " he said.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11587193
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:50 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Comparison of silhouettes of the new Polish Borsuk IFV and Kurganets-25
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2 - Page 33 D-7cvk10
    Kurganets was slated for redesign as it lacked the required internal volume to seat a squad in full gear comfortably. The smaller Borsuk would now have to carry the torch for cramped Eastern IFVs Razz

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