Venezuela crisis

George1 wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Venezuela has no oil, it has tar.

are you crazy?

Google the quality of venezuela oil. It needs extreme raffination and is the lowest quality on the market. It is only profitable when oil prices are high. It has the viscosity of tar. Needs othrr oils to be added to lower viscosity.

I have news for you, oil is not all same.

It has the viscosity of tar.

Canadian tar sands r no better, yet pipelines were being built to the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Economics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Geopolitical_importance

But that's besides the point: controlling it enables 1 to control the world prices & thus the economies of Russia, Iran, Japan & China.
The US only controlled the export of it by default, buying 90% of it. Now, with sanctions in place, which made the economy worse, Maduro will stop sending his oil to the US, as he won't even get paid for it.

This isnt about oil, its about influence in the region.

It is about oil- the US failed to take over Saddam's Iraqi & Qaddafi's Libyan oil, so now Trump tries to do "damage control" by taking Maduro's oil & kick out the Russian & Chinese oil companies out of the country. The US has huge influence in L. America as is- all of it's economy depends on the US economy.
Btw Syria has little oil; it's the fact that it's allied with Iran (& Iraq, for that matter) that made Israel & its protege the US very nervous. Russia prevented their regime change ops, & will be present there for long time to come.

Venezuelan Supreme Court repealed the law on the "transition to democracy"
https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2569347.html

Guaydo admits the invasion of Americans in Venezuela https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2569411.html

Tsavo Lion wrote:

It has the viscosity of tar.

Canadian tar sands r no better, yet pipelines were being built to the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Economics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Geopolitical_importance

But that's besides the point: controlling it enables 1 to control the world prices & thus the economies of Russia, Iran, Japan & China.
The US only controlled the export of it by default, buying 90% of it. Now, with sanctions in place, which made the economy worse, Maduro will stop sending his oil to the US, as he won't even get paid for it.

This isnt about oil, its about influence in the region.

It is about oil- the US failed to take over Saddam's Iraqi & Qaddafi's Libyan oil, so now Trump tries to do "damage control" by taking Maduro's oil & kick out the Russian & Chinese oil companies out of the country. The US has huge influence in L. America as is- all of it's economy depends on the US economy.
Btw Syria has little oil; it's the fact that it's allied with Iran (& Iraq, for that matter) that made Israel & its protege the US very nervous. Russia prevented their regime change ops, & will be present there for long time to come.

Venezuelan Supreme Court repealed the law on the "transition to democracy"
https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2569347.html

Guaydo admits the invasion of Americans in Venezuela https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2569411.html

Fun fact, maduro cant sell it to anyone else, because the only processing facilities of that high viscosity oils are in USA and France.

Also whats your problem? Countries have interests. Its a french interest to get rid of Maduro. So we do work on that.

You are also wrong about Libya. The libyan oil is now owned by french and italian oil companies.

Aristide wrote:Fun fact, maduro cant sell it to anyone else, because the only processing facilities of that high viscosity oils are in USA and France.

Also whats your problem? Countries have interests. Its a french interest to get rid of Maduro. So we do work on that.

You are also wrong about Libya. The libyan oil is now owned by french and italian oil companies.

It's good that Aristide finally become honest about it. The West's concern has nothing to do with democracy or Venezuelan people but many things to do with the profit of Western capitalism.

Who care whether the country is democratic or authoritarian ? The West don't care if Saudi has a full dictator regime. If a dictatorship gain profit for Western capitalism... then the West will nuture it.

More reason to back Maduro or any Venezuelan who has the gut to oppose Western hegemony. What the West wants is a docile and weak Venezuela, not a strong and prosperous one.

higurashihougi wrote:

Aristide wrote:Fun fact, maduro cant sell it to anyone else, because the only processing facilities of that high viscosity oils are in USA and France.

Also whats your problem? Countries have interests. Its a french interest to get rid of Maduro. So we do work on that.

You are also wrong about Libya. The libyan oil is now owned by french and italian oil companies.

It's good that Aristide finally become honest about it. The West's concern has nothing to do with democracy or Venezuelan people but many things to do with the profit of Western capitalism.

Who care whether the country is democratic or authoritarian ? The West don't care if Saudi has a full dictator regime. If a dictatorship gain profit for Western capitalism... then the West will nuture it.

More reason to back Maduro or any Venezuelan who has the gut to oppose Western hegemony. What the West wants is a docile and weak Venezuela, not a strong and prosperous one.

Well, ypu dont get a strong and prosperous Venezuela with Maduro as well. He drove the country against the wall. You cant blame the west for maduros mistakes.

Beside that, democracy in 3rd world shitholes doesent fund my fancy vacations and stuff.

Exporting democracy to Venezuela made a shithole by the US sanctions & domination won't work either. Iraq & Libya r good recent examples.
Where will Macron, Trump & Guido end up before they die?
Ur guess is as good as mine.

Tsavo Lion wrote:
Exporting democracy to Venezuela made a shithole by the US sanctions & domination won't work either. Iraq & Libya r good recent examples.
Where will Macron, Trump & Guido end up before they die?
Ur guess is as good as mine.

Sanctions on Venezuela exist since few weeks now. It was made a shithole by Maduro.

You know what amazes me? For you its all about evil USA. The fact that Maduro is an absolute moron and idiot, his politics are clown politics ect, is ignored by you. Do you claim Maduro was installed by USA?

The neighbor countries dont want the 3 million refugees from Venezuela.

Have you ever visited South America? You know Evo Morales in Bolivia? Another idiot. I was in Bolivia in 2017. Morales did not finish school, his politics are laughable. He is as idiotic as Maduro, just not as retarded.[/quote]

Aristide wrote:Sanctions on Venezuela exist since few weeks now.

The first round of sanction began against Venezuela at the time of Barack Obama. Since then, additional rounds of sanctions have been added.

Venezuela has suffered from sanction for a much longer longer longer time, not just "few weeks".

higurashihougi wrote:

Aristide wrote:Sanctions on Venezuela exist since few weeks now.

The first round of sanction began against Venezuela at the time of Barack Obama. Since then, additional rounds of sanctions have been added.

Venezuela has suffered from sanction for a much longer longer longer time, not just "few weeks".

Wrong, individuals got sanctioned. Nothing else.

Also whats your problem? If we dont want trade with Venezuela, thats our decission.

Aristide wrote:Wrong, individuals got sanctioned. Nothing else.

Sanctions against the whole energy sector of Venezuela also began long ago, not just "few weeks".

And United Nations admitted that sanctions inflict much damage on Venezuela economy.

So I am sorry but you can't blame Maduro for everything.

higurashihougi wrote:

Aristide wrote:Wrong, individuals got sanctioned. Nothing else.

Sanctions against the whole energy sector of Venezuela also began long ago, not just "few weeks".

And United Nations admitted that sanctions inflict much damage on Venezuela economy.

You want to force us to deal with maduro? Sorry if we dont want business with maduro regime, we are free to not deal.

The 1st sanctions were imposed in 2008, and:
In addition to targeted sanctions against individuals and
companies, President Trump has imposed broader
economic sanctions on Venezuela because of the
government’s serious human rights abuses, antidemocratic
actions, and responsibility for the deepening humanitarian
crisis. In August 2017, President Trump issued E.O. 13808,
which prohibits access to the U.S. financial markets by the
Venezuelan government, including PdVSA, with certain
exceptions to minimize the impact on the Venezuelan
people and U.S. economic interests. The sanctions restrict
the Venezuelan government’s access to U.S. debt and
equity markets. Among the exceptions are transactions for
new debt by CITGO, owned by PdVSA; transactions by
U.S. owners of certain Venezuelan/PdVSA bonds on
secondary markets; financing for agricultural and medical
exports; and short-term financing to facilitate trade.
In March 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13827, which
prohibits transactions involving the Venezuelan
government’s issuance and use of digital currency, digital
coin, or digital token. The Maduro government launched a
cryptocurrency known as the petro in February 2018 in an
effort to circumvent sanctions.
In May 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13835, which
prohibits transactions related to the purchase of Venezuelan
debt, including accounts receivable, and to any debt owed
to Venezuela pledged as collateral. U.S. officials assert the
action was intended to deny corrupt Venezuelan officials
the ability to improperly value and sell off public assets in
return for kickbacks.
Policy Considerations
As Venezuela’s political and humanitarian crisis has
deepened over the past two years, the Trump
Administration at times indicated it was considering
broader sanctions, such as an embargo on certain U.S.
exports to and/or imports from Venezuela (e.g., oil) or a
prohibition on financial transactions with PdVSA, as
occurred with the sanctions imposed on PdVSA in January
2019. On January 23, 2019, several days before the
imposition of the sanctions, the United States recognized
Juan Guaidó, the head of Venezuela’s National Assembly,
as the country’s interim president and ceased to recognize
the “Maduro regime” as the government of Venezuela.
Although Venezuelan oil exports to the United States have
been declining, sanctions on that trade still could affect the
U.S. economy, particularly Gulf Coast refineries that
process Venezuelan crude oil. A complicating factor in the
sanctions on PdVSA is that the company owns CITGO,
which operates three crude oil refineries, three pipelines,
and numerous petroleum product terminals in the United
States. Some analysts also maintain that the stronger
sanctions on PdVSA run the risk of exacerbating
Venezuela’s difficult humanitarian crisis, which already has
been marked by shortages of food and medicines, increased
poverty, and mass migration.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf
https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/

The fact that Maduro is an absolute moron and idiot, his politics are clown politics ect, is ignored by you. Do you claim Maduro was installed by USA?

His policies to help his people r less moronic than those of Macron & Trump that r aimed at making life better for the rich. No, I don't claim that.

Tsavo Lion wrote:The 1st sanctions were imposed in 2008, and:
In addition to targeted sanctions against individuals and
companies, President Trump has imposed broader
economic sanctions on Venezuela because of the
government’s serious human rights abuses, antidemocratic
actions, and responsibility for the deepening humanitarian
crisis. In August 2017, President Trump issued E.O. 13808,
which prohibits access to the U.S. financial markets by the
Venezuelan government, including PdVSA, with certain
exceptions to minimize the impact on the Venezuelan
people and U.S. economic interests. The sanctions restrict
the Venezuelan government’s access to U.S. debt and
equity markets. Among the exceptions are transactions for
new debt by CITGO, owned by PdVSA; transactions by
U.S. owners of certain Venezuelan/PdVSA bonds on
secondary markets; financing for agricultural and medical
exports; and short-term financing to facilitate trade.
In March 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13827, which
prohibits transactions involving the Venezuelan
government’s issuance and use of digital currency, digital
coin, or digital token. The Maduro government launched a
cryptocurrency known as the petro in February 2018 in an
effort to circumvent sanctions.
In May 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13835, which
prohibits transactions related to the purchase of Venezuelan
debt, including accounts receivable, and to any debt owed
to Venezuela pledged as collateral. U.S. officials assert the
action was intended to deny corrupt Venezuelan officials
the ability to improperly value and sell off public assets in
return for kickbacks.
Policy Considerations
As Venezuela’s political and humanitarian crisis has
deepened over the past two years, the Trump
Administration at times indicated it was considering
broader sanctions, such as an embargo on certain U.S.
exports to and/or imports from Venezuela (e.g., oil) or a
prohibition on financial transactions with PdVSA, as
occurred with the sanctions imposed on PdVSA in January
2019. On January 23, 2019, several days before the
imposition of the sanctions, the United States recognized
Juan Guaidó, the head of Venezuela’s National Assembly,
as the country’s interim president and ceased to recognize
the “Maduro regime” as the government of Venezuela.
Although Venezuelan oil exports to the United States have
been declining, sanctions on that trade still could affect the
U.S. economy, particularly Gulf Coast refineries that
process Venezuelan crude oil. A complicating factor in the
sanctions on PdVSA is that the company owns CITGO,
which operates three crude oil refineries, three pipelines,
and numerous petroleum product terminals in the United
States. Some analysts also maintain that the stronger
sanctions on PdVSA run the risk of exacerbating
Venezuela’s difficult humanitarian crisis, which already has
been marked by shortages of food and medicines, increased
poverty, and mass migration.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf
https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/

The fact that Maduro is an absolute moron and idiot, his politics are clown politics ect, is ignored by you. Do you claim Maduro was installed by USA?

His policies to help his people r less moronic than those of Macron & Trump that r aimed at making life better for the rich. No, I don't claim that.

You dont want me to have a good life?

And thanks for proving me right. Obama sanctioned individuals. Venezuela is a shithole since 10 years now.

You say Maduro is good? Eating expensive steak while his people starve.

GarryB wrote:
Tomorrow I will go through and try to sift the shit from the stuff that just smells bad, and move it to the TB section...

It may require some editing as some posts include both bollocks and stuff on Venzuela...

Thanks but I didn't really want to bog you down with it and it is now in the past.

Hopefully posters here will take the hint and keep this thread on thread, in the knowledge that from now on their posts will just be zapped, making them a waste of time and typing effort.

https://russian.rt.com/opinion/601684-shamir-ssha-venesuela-perevorot

https://vz.ru/world/2019/2/12/963712.print.html

https://www.rbc.ru/politics/12/02/2019/5c62d9369a7947f3e6db5410

https://ria.ru/20190212/1550730757.html

For France its best if Maduro goes, thats our national interest. You may have to accept that. Beside that, contrary to you, i jnow a person from venezuela, who absolutly hates maduro. 3 million refugees speak for themself.

Aristide wrote:For France its best if Maduro goes, thats our national interest. You may have to accept that. Beside that, contrary to you, i jnow a person from venezuela, who absolutly hates maduro. 3 million refugees speak for themself.

If he goes, so will R. Castro- is losing Cuba to the US also in ur national interests?
In any country, there going to be people who hate their leaders. That alone doesn't justify intervention. In case u forgot, France was against the invasion of Iraq. Many there hated Saddam, esp. the Shiites, but they started killing the invaders regardless.
I heard from the Ven. FM that many of those 3M people r actually Colombians who settled & been living there for many years.
In any case, they r economic migrants rather than refugees fleeing genocide or political/religious persecution. Many, if not most, will return if & after the situation improves. It is to these people that humanitarian aid should be given.
Many Westerners retire abroad & r called expatriates; in reality they r also economic migrants who want to get more bang for their buck in a weaker economy. The largest American expatriate community is in Mexico. Many also moved to Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia & Ecuador. So, what else is new?

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Aristide wrote:For France its best if Maduro goes, thats our national interest. You may have to accept that. Beside that, contrary to you, i jnow a person from venezuela, who absolutly hates maduro. 3 million refugees speak for themself.

If he goes, so will R. Castro- is losing Cuba to the US also in ur national interests?
In any country, there going to be people who hate their leaders. That alone doesn't justify intervention. In case u forgot, France was against the invasion of Iraq. Many there hated Saddam, esp. the Shiites, but they started killing the invaders regardless.
I heard from the Ven. FM that many of those 3M people r actually Colombians who settled & been living there for many years.
In any case, they r economic migrants rather than refugees fleeing genocide or political/religious persecution. Many, if not most, will return if & after the situation improves.
Many Westerners retire abroad & r called expatriates; in reality they r also economic migrants who want to get more bang for their buck in a weaker economy. The largest American expatriate community is in Mexico. Many also moved to Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia & Ecuador. So, what else is new?

You never visited South America...venezuelans beg on the streets, their childrens selling worthless stuff to feed their families. They look starving.

Admit, that Maduro is an idiot. I cant take you serious when you blame only one side and ignore the obvious.

I've been to Mexican border towns & saw the same thing.
They'll remain miserable even after Maduro (I don't think is entirely blameless) is gone. In fact, the coming civil war will create more of them. The US & France, out of their concern, r not in hurry to invade Bangladesh, Burma, Haiti, Guatemala, Paraguay, & Zimbabwe, to name a few, to improve their economies & install better presidents.
https://regnum.ru/news/2571231.html

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/bangladesh

http://karennews.org/2019/01/the-new-year-starts-with-armed-conflict-between-karen-and-burma-armies-in-northern-karen-state/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/on-the-70th-anniversary-of-their-war-with-the-burma-army-landmark-peace-process-in-jeopardy-as-hundreds-of-karen-christians-flee-their-homes-under-fire

https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2019/02/12/international-conference-held-at-barnard-calls-for-accountability-for-rohingya-genocide/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-word-haitis-president-fear-paralyzes-capital-180719400.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/palm-oil-industry-expansion-spurs-guatemala-indigenous-migration-190122160154738.html

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/22/685505116/killings-of-guatemalas-indigenous-activists-raise-specter-of-human-rights-crisis

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/02/guatemala-legislative-initiatives-seriously-threaten-human-rights/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay#Social_issues

https://www.equaltimes.org/in-zimbabwe-an-unpopular

https://www.france24.com/en/20190212-us-slams-repression-zimbabwe

Instead, they intervened in Syria by helping anti-Assad forces & sending troops there to reduce Iran's influence & flooded Turkey & Europe with Ms of refugees as a result.
The US territory of Puerto Rico after the last hurricane also produced many refugees to the mainland, but Trump & Macron r not bothered by that:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/puerto-rico-migration-data-invs/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-fema-displaced-families-temporary-housing-a8488266.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-puerto-rico-hurricane-fema-melania-san-juan-death-toll-mayor-a8386396.html

http://www.wlrn.org/post/us-handled-puerto-rico-hurricane-aftermath-badly-says-refugee-group

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/in-the-news/2018/7/13/npr-all-things-considered-fema-blamed-delays-in-puerto-rico-on-maria-agency-records-tell-another-story


They know that there's no oil, gold, etc. to be extracted & that Russian bombers won't be landing there as long as it's not independent.  
https://russian.rt.com/world/article/602000-gumanitarnaya-programma-ssha-venesuela

Tsavo Lion wrote:I've been to Mexican border towns & saw the same thing.
They'll remain miserable even after Maduro (I don't think is entirely blameless) is gone. In fact, the coming civil war will create more of them. The US & France, out of their concern, r not in hurry to invade Bangladesh, Burma, Haiti, Guatemala, Paraguay, & Zimbabwe, to name a few, to improve their economies & install better presidents.
https://regnum.ru/news/2571231.html

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/bangladesh

http://karennews.org/2019/01/the-new-year-starts-with-armed-conflict-between-karen-and-burma-armies-in-northern-karen-state/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/on-the-70th-anniversary-of-their-war-with-the-burma-army-landmark-peace-process-in-jeopardy-as-hundreds-of-karen-christians-flee-their-homes-under-fire

https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2019/02/12/international-conference-held-at-barnard-calls-for-accountability-for-rohingya-genocide/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-word-haitis-president-fear-paralyzes-capital-180719400.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/palm-oil-industry-expansion-spurs-guatemala-indigenous-migration-190122160154738.html

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/22/685505116/killings-of-guatemalas-indigenous-activists-raise-specter-of-human-rights-crisis

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/02/guatemala-legislative-initiatives-seriously-threaten-human-rights/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay#Social_issues

https://www.equaltimes.org/in-zimbabwe-an-unpopular

https://www.france24.com/en/20190212-us-slams-repression-zimbabwe

Instead, they intervened in Syria by helping anti-Assad forces & sending troops there to reduce Iran's influence & flooded Turkey & Europe with Ms of refugees as a result.
The US territory of Puerto Rico after the last hurricane also produced many refugees to the mainland, but Trump & Macron r not bothered by that:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/puerto-rico-migration-data-invs/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-fema-displaced-families-temporary-housing-a8488266.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-puerto-rico-hurricane-fema-melania-san-juan-death-toll-mayor-a8386396.html

http://www.wlrn.org/post/us-handled-puerto-rico-hurricane-aftermath-badly-says-refugee-group

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/in-the-news/2018/7/13/npr-all-things-considered-fema-blamed-delays-in-puerto-rico-on-maria-agency-records-tell-another-story


They know that there's no oil, gold, etc. to be extracted & that Russian bombers won't be landing there as long as it's not independent.  
https://russian.rt.com/world/article/602000-gumanitarnaya-programma-ssha-venesuela

Maduro failed and smashed his country at the wall. He is hated by majority of people. He eats in expensive restaurants, while millions in his country starve. His politics failed. Its obvious that things in venezuela have to change, no matter if you like it or not.

He is hated by majority of people.

Says who? The Western mass media? Did independent pollsters go there recently to confirm that?
Besides, all active duty military have civilian family members & friends; if it was true, the army would have ousted him by now, esp. after threats from the US & efforts to have them defect.
So, pl. stop repeating the same thing as a broken album record!

Tsavo Lion wrote:

He is hated by majority of people.

Says who? The Western mass media? Did independent pollsters go there recently to confirm that?
Besides, all active duty military have civilian family members & friends; if it was true, the army would have ousted him by now, esp. after threats from the US & efforts to have them defect.
So, pl. stop repeating the same thing as a broken album record!

How many Venezuelans do you know?

It doesn't matter if I know none or 100K! I'm not a pollster to collect data & analyze what the real people's feelings & attitudes r toward Maduro. Some1 on this forum may know some who like Maduro & doesn't like Guido &/ Trump even more. Learn some logic & critical thinking!
Many Soviets also hated Stalin but fought the Germans & their collaborators, including French, for 4 years.