Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+51
lyle6
rigoletto
Podlodka77
Krepost
Mir
ALAMO
LMFS
mnztr
GarryB
The-thing-next-door
d_taddei2
owais.usmani
Makarov420
hoom
Big_Gazza
marat
ult
dino00
xeno
Hole
Peŕrier
wilhelm
franco
George1
T-47
eehnie
Rodion_Romanovic
miroslav
Benya
flamming_python
walle83
PapaDragon
nastle77
SeigSoloyvov
KiloGolf
medo
Isos
JohninMK
max steel
Cyberspec
Honesroc
Kyo
TR1
magnumcromagnon
TheArmenian
kvs
calripson
Mike E
zg18
Dima
Viktor
55 posters

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 999
    Points : 999
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  AMCXXL Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:31 pm

    Pacific Fleet's Project 21180M-class diesel-electric icebreaker Evpatiy Kolovrat to be commissioned in July 2023.
    It is the second fleet icebreaker after Ilya Muromets of North Fleet

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Hole, Broski and Krepost like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 717
    Points : 719
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:08 am

    RAPTOR and BK-16 next to each other
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 25-11612

    GarryB, franco, Hole, Mir and Broski like this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3311
    Points : 3313
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:58 pm

    Krepost wrote:RAPTOR and BK-16 next to each other

    Still a mystery to me why they opted for both the designs that are almost identical?
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10946
    Points : 10924
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Hole Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:53 pm

    Two different yards?
    BK-16 is build by Kalaschnikov.
    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6755
    Points : 6781
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  franco Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:33 am

    Mir wrote:
    Krepost wrote:RAPTOR and BK-16 next to each other

    Still a mystery to me why they opted for both the designs that are almost identical?

    It is puzzling but the Russian Navy designates the Raptor as a Patrol Craft and the BK-series as Landing Craft if that helps.

    Mir likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3311
    Points : 3313
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:03 pm

    Yet here we can see both versions ready to land troops dunno Laughing

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Raptor10

    Broski likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39390
    Points : 39888
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:11 am

    Well maybe it is money or politics, or perhaps they are both good for specific things that don't overlap so it makes sense to use both.

    Or maybe it is production capacity.

    The Mi-28NM and Ka-52M are both being produced though they are probably different enough to warrant both aircraft being used where the latter is a scout helicopter and the Havoc is just an attack helicopter.

    Are they both able to be carried internally in larger ships as a mothership arrangement?

    Would be interesting to compare their specs side by side...

    From what I can see from Rosexport and Wiki they are similar size but the Raptor seems to use US engines and British water jets, which the makers appear to be trying to replace with Russian products.

    Mir and Broski like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6755
    Points : 6781
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  franco Sat Aug 19, 2023 8:54 pm

    Small hydrographic vessel "Yakov Lapushkin" project 19910 became part of the Baltic Fleet . The solemn ceremony of raising the flag of the hydrographic service of the Russian Navy took place in Kronstadt today, August 19, 2023.

    The ship "Yakov Lapushkin" was built at the Rybinsk shipyard "Vympel". The laying took place on January 22, 2019, launching on May 22, 2022, followed by completion afloat. At the end of September last year, the ship went to pass sea trials and state trials at the commissioning base of the Baltic Fleet in Kronstadt. The acceptance certificate for the ship was signed in early August 2023, although the transfer was originally planned for 2022.

    By order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, the small hydrographic vessel was given the name "Yakov Lapushkin" in honor of the Soviet naval figure, navigator, military hydrographer, rear admiral, who headed the hydrographic service of the Navy during the Great Patriotic War - reported in the Ministry of Defense.

    "Yakov Lapushkin" is the fifth project 19910 ship built in the interests of the Russian Navy. The vessel is intended for maintenance of navigational equipment, delivery of cargo to the unequipped coast, as well as for research using a multibeam echo sounder. It can work not only in deep sea conditions, but also in shallow water.

    Main characteristics: Displacement 1200 tons. The length is 59 meters, the maximum width is 11.4 meters, the height of the side is over 5 meters, the draft is 3.18 meters. Travel speed 12.5 knots. The cruising range is about 3500 miles. Autonomy of navigation over 25 days. Crew of 22 people.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/224142-baltijskij-flot-popolnilsja-malym-gidrograficheskim-sudnom-jakov-lapushkin-proekta-19910.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    GarryB, zardof, 4channer, AMCXXL, Hole and Mir like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 717
    Points : 719
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:16 am

    Today (1st September 2023) another pr. 21180M icebreaker (intended for the Navy) was laid down at Almaz shipyard in St. Petersburg.

    The name is SVYATOGOR.

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 01-11710

    GarryB, franco, George1, xeno, zardof, Hole, Mir and Broski like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 717
    Points : 719
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Sat Oct 07, 2023 2:27 am

    The project 23130 fleet tanker VASSILY NIKITIN was launched yesterday.

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 F7vwqp10


    GarryB, franco, George1, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof, 4channer and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14995
    Points : 15134
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:23 pm

    One of the longer serving RN ships

    Capt(N)
    @Capt_Navy

    …and the Tor-M2 SAM on the Vasily Bykov helicopter deck, clearly more important than a helicopter!

    BTW, to the left of 22160 Vasily Bykov we see the auxiliary ship Istra of the Black Sea Fleet. This  is the former auxiliary ship the Elsa T13 of the Kriegsmarine, built in 1938, and she is still in service.

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 F7-uklcXAAA7St9?format=jpg&name=small

    GarryB, zardof, Hole and Mir like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6755
    Points : 6781
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  franco Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:34 pm

    NOTE: here is an auxiliary naval vessel you don't see mentioned often.

    October 17 in Severodvinsk (Arkhangelsk region) a ceremony was held to raise the flag of the vessels of the Navy auxiliary fleet on a new dredging non-self-propelled dredger of the RDB 66.42M project.

    In accordance with the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, the DS-3 dredging vessel was enlisted in the group of support vessels of the White Sea Naval Base of the Northern Fleet.

    The solemn event was attended by Vice Admiral Dmitry Ukrainets, Deputy Commander of the Northern Fleet for Logistics, Rear Admiral Oleg Zverev, Commander of the White Sea Naval Base, Captain 1st Rank Alexander Shekhunov, Head of the Auxiliary Fleet of the Northern Fleet, and Vyacheslav Karpov, General Director of PJSC Yaroslavl Shipbuilding Plant.

    During the meeting, officials noted that the composition of the Navy auxiliary fleet is updated regularly, and the new vessel will contribute to the improvement of the BelVMB basing system.

    The DS-3 captain Igor Galustyan thanked the shipbuilders for a qualitatively built vessel that meets all modern requirements, and assured the command that the crew will carry out the tasks with honor and dignity.

    Earlier, the dredging vessel successfully passed a full range of factory, sea trials and state tests in the Gorky reservoir.

    Currently, the DS-3 crew is completing planned activities for its entry into the permanent readiness forces of the White Sea Naval Base, after which it will be involved in performing tasks for its intended purpose.

    For reference:

    The new vessel of the RDB 66.42M project is intended for deepening fairways, channels, raids and other areas of the sea, developing and transporting soils from the bottom of reservoirs via a floating pulp pipeline, as well as for alluvial dams. The vessel is equipped with a ground pump, diesel generators and other devices. The length of the vessel is 65 m, width – 12 m, height – 3.4 m, displacement – about 900 tons.


    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12482311@egNews

    GarryB, psg and Hole like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6755
    Points : 6781
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  franco Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:58 pm

    NOTE: article including the different auxiliary naval ships under production and some gripping on the perceived lack of planning and development. However some detailed ship specs included.


    Non-auxiliary fleet: results of the unsystematic development of the Russian auxiliary fleet

    FULL ARTICLE: https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/222228-nevspomogatelnyj-flot-itogi-bessistemnogo-razvitija-vspomogatelnogo-flota-rf.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    GarryB likes this post

    Scorpius
    Scorpius


    Posts : 1487
    Points : 1487
    Join date : 2020-11-06
    Age : 36

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Scorpius Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:15 am

    *sigh.*
    The topwar website has long ago turned into an alarmist information wash with the opinions of "experts" broadcasting from the sofa.
    Why bring links to this resource here at all?

    sepheronx likes this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6755
    Points : 6781
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  franco Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:23 am

    Scorpius wrote:*sigh.*
    The topwar website has long ago turned into an alarmist information wash with the opinions of "experts" broadcasting from the sofa.
    Why bring links to this resource here at all?

    Because when you are searching for nuggets, you sometimes need to dig through the dirt...

    NOTE: article including the different auxiliary naval ships under production and some gripping on the perceived lack of planning and development. However some detailed ship specs included.

    Nuggets my friend. Nuggets! thumbsup

    GarryB, owais.usmani and Mir like this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2761
    Points : 2759
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  lancelot Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:23 pm

    Scorpius wrote:The topwar website has long ago turned into an alarmist information wash with the opinions of "experts" broadcasting from the sofa.
    Why bring links to this resource here at all?
    A lot of Russian websites like Topwar and BMPD are quite dissapointing. In the case of Topwar it has doomerist articles and doomerist comments, and in the case of BMPD the articles themselves are fine, but there are way too many doomerist comments disparaging otherwise great weapon systems. For example BMPD comments were disparaging the Borei-A sent to the Pacific recently. This is the most advanced SSBN in service today and yet they claim it is shit. F'in idiots.
    A lot of people disparaging the submarine, and others the Bulava claiming it doesn't work. Just plain idiocy.

    sepheronx, GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs and Hole like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 717
    Points : 719
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:41 am

    Today (19 October 2023), 2 additional project 08132R class "research" ships have been laid down in Zelenodorsk.

    The names are: Mikhail Nefedov and Nikolai Zuikov.

    Last year the Leonid Bekrenev and Boris Bobkov were laid down at the same shipyard.

    These are really "intelligence" ships. They are 100m long and their displacement is 4,000T.

    Pictures of the laying down ceremony today:

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 F8zeqo11
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Inform11

    Source: https://sk-akbars.ru/press-center/news/10/1171/

    GarryB, franco, George1, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof and Hole like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39390
    Points : 39888
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:53 am

    They look unarmed... hope they don't make the mistake the US made with their USS Liberty intel ships that the Israelis almost sank...

    With the proliferation of AESA radar arrays on Russians ships I would like to see an improved and lightened naval TOR missile system added to all their ships... a decent AESA would give excellent all weather visibility which would be useful anyway and command guided missiles can be very accurate while not being expensive to carry in large numbers.

    Vertical launch tubes mounted around the deck would make them not so obvious and not very military looking like gun mounts would.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8626
    Points : 8888
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 34
    Location : Canada

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  sepheronx Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:10 am

    lancelot wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:The topwar website has long ago turned into an alarmist information wash with the opinions of "experts" broadcasting from the sofa.
    Why bring links to this resource here at all?
    A lot of Russian websites like Topwar and BMPD are quite dissapointing. In the case of Topwar it has doomerist articles and doomerist comments, and in the case of BMPD the articles themselves are fine, but there are way too many doomerist comments disparaging otherwise great weapon systems. For example BMPD comments were disparaging the Borei-A sent to the Pacific recently. This is the most advanced SSBN in service today and yet they claim it is shit. F'in idiots.
    A lot of people disparaging the submarine, and others the Bulava claiming it doesn't work. Just plain idiocy.

    We dont even know if they are Russian for most part.

    GarryB likes this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10946
    Points : 10924
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Hole Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:51 am

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 32432510
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 32432710
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 32432810

    GarryB, franco, zardof, lancelot and Krepost like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39390
    Points : 39888
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:19 pm

    One of the longer serving RN ships

    Kommuna... 1912

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 10473410

    We dont even know if they are Russian for most part.

    The west spends a lot of money on Trolls and propaganda and the CIA loves to infiltrate any media organisation to colour the flavour of any story in a way that suits their agenda.

    George1, Big_Gazza, Rodion_Romanovic, zardof and Hole like this post

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


    Posts : 2490
    Points : 2657
    Join date : 2015-12-30
    Location : Merkelland

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:23 pm

    https://flotprom.ru/2023/%D0%98%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B517/


    A very interesting article about the auxiliary fleet of the russian navy


    Will Russian ships become Chinese?
    August 15, 2023 at 10:39 am Topic: Industry
    The intensity of meetings on the topic of import substitution in shipbuilding and shipbuilding in 2023 is breaking all records. Almost every month, USC, Central Research Institute "Kurs", and the Ministry of Industry and Trade gather industrialists, designers and representatives of shipyards to solve the problem of technological independence from the West. These discussions cannot be called simple: the industry is divided into opposing camps, one of which is actively promoting Chinese products to the market. Not only civilian ships, but also the auxiliary fleet of the Navy were under the threat of saturation with components from the Middle Kingdom.

    On Wednesday, August 16, the next meeting will be held dedicated to the implementation of Russian Government Decree No. 719 “On confirmation of the production of industrial products on the territory of the Russian Federation.” The previous meeting, held on June 28 and dedicated to another resolution - No. 1872, almost ended in a scandal. Representatives of one of the leading design bureaus USC stated that they consider it advisable to give preference to Chinese ship components. As witnesses to this speech told Mil.Press, representatives of the corporation had to reassure domestic producers after such a statement.



    But, obviously, there is no unity of opinion in the country’s main shipbuilding corporation. For example, in October 2022, the general director of Sudoexport (part of USC) stated that the possibility of fully equipping the dry cargo ship of the RSD34 project with Chinese equipment was being considered . At that time, Sudoexport noted that not all Chinese manufacturers had RMRS certificates, but they were already working on the issue of centralizing import purchases. At the same time, the main task of the organization within USC, as evidenced by their own website , is the export of ships.

    On the other hand, fishing companies are putting pressure on the legislative regulation of import substitution. In July, at a meeting under the auspices of the Far East and Arctic Development Corporation, they asked not to increase localization requirements for ship construction. “The equipment that is needed to equip a fishing vessel is often not produced in the Russian Federation, we are ready to invest in redesign and search for joint alternative ways and solutions, but it is impossible to include in the project something that does not exist or untested hypotheses, as this will lead to constant redrawing of projects with corresponding costs and losses, and fishermen are not ready to pay from their wallets. In addition, Russian enterprises very often inflate prices for their products several times compared to analogues from friendly countries and, at the same time, of lower quality. Russian fishermen are ready to buy domestic, but on competitive terms. Therefore, we support the association’s proposal to maintain localization points until the end of the second stage of investment quotas,” Stanislav Aksenov, a member of the board of directors of the Russian Fishing Industry Company, bluntly stated.

    China began an aggressive expansion into Russian shipbuilding in 2022, during a new round of sanctions pressure. The European producers who remained on the market left “one day,” leaving literally “scorched earth” behind them. There is still equipment at shipyards that cannot be started without foreign software. And Chinese industrialists began to actively offer their analogues, often even bypassing their traditional intermediaries.

    When Mil.Press interviewed designers from more than 50 shipbuilding design bureaus in the second quarter of 2022, their “urgent” needs covered a wide range of equipment from key to “small things”: gearboxes and buckets for dredgers, winches, control systems, almost everything cryogenic equipment for LNG projects, engines and propellers, scrubbers, stern seals, fish processing equipment, boats, propellers, power supplies, generators and much more. As of 2022, according to the report of the SKO Center, out of 292 ships being built in Russia, 76 (that is, 26%) were orders with high construction risks due to problems with import substitution.

    Back then, it was really difficult to quickly produce domestic analogues of equipment to plug holes in projects already under construction. And given the limited budget, part of which at that time had already been paid to European suppliers, it was completely unrealistic.

    But today, in 2023, taking into account the joint work of shipbuilders and equipment manufacturers, as well as thanks to subsidies under the 1872 decree, Russian enterprises have something to offer the industry.

    “Within the framework of the 719th resolution, a ship needs to score 2200 points. You can try to combine equipment that today is realistic to purchase from one manufacturer. For example, water treatment systems and desalination plants give 75 points for each product, wastewater treatment - 80 points, purification systems bilge water - 70 points, fuel separators - 75 points. In total, if you install domestic water treatment, desalination systems, fuel separators and conventional equipment, this will give a minimum of 375 points (17% of the required - ed.), but there is usually not one installation of each type,” one of the interviewed experts, specializing in civil shipbuilding, explained to the editors.

    This concept of an “integrated manufacturer-supplier” looks attractive from the point of view of meeting legal requirements, but design bureaus are often more comfortable working with even more complex suppliers who are able to “cover” almost half of the vessel with the supplied equipment, albeit at the expense of the place of its production.

    For example, Mil.Press became aware of the original method of forming makers' lists at Vympel Design Bureau. At least one designer has a closed group on Telegram , where they announce the start of work on a specific project. In response, equipment suppliers provide a complete list of their products that they offer for the project.

    The problem of the dominance of Chinese equipment on Russian projects is also seen at the Kurs Central Research Institute. “The market is, of course, a market, but as many now admit to me, most customers have fled to China again. For various reasons, they are still uncomfortable working with Russian manufacturers,” the head of the import substitution and localization center said in an interview in May 2023 Dmitry Stoyanov.

    At the end of 2022, the FSUE Hydrographic Enterprise also expressed its position. “The Russian market for marine equipment must be protected from Chinese and Turkish products,” Deputy General Director of the Federal State Unitary Enterprise Anatoly Masanyuk bluntly stated .

    The customer’s representative also spoke out against the parallel import of European products, noting emerging problems regarding warranty repairs.

    It is the service of already supplied equipment, according to some experts surveyed, that can become decisive in Russia’s fight against China. Thus, in the next five years alone, it is planned to build 260 ships by order of State Transport Leasing Company alone.


    At the same time , an assessment of the capabilities of Russian ship repair showed that this industry is not ready for a future influx of orders, even from the point of view of docking capacities. If we build a logical chain, then the lack of docks will lead to the fact that ship repair enterprises will be interested in the fastest possible work for the period while the ship is raised from the water. And this, in turn, will increase the demands on the ability of equipment suppliers to provide their fast service.

    “At the global level, customers understand this. It is not without reason that during any audit we are required to confirm that the service department is actually working and meets regulatory requirements. However, often the audit is completed and traditional desires to buy cheaper in China come into force,” says one of the interlocutors of Mil.Press from among the producers of domestic SKO.

    The auxiliary fleet of the Navy has become a separate field of struggle between Russian and Chinese manufacturers. In the realities of 2023, warships are protected from import supplies at the first level of regulatory cooperation: here are military acceptance, and requirements for launching production in accordance with GOST RV, and product certification, and, finally, the principled position of the customer.

    At the same time, the auxiliary fleet is being built simultaneously under the control of the VP and the Register. It would seem that there are more requirements, but in practice the design bureau and the shipyard can allow equipment on the ship that only has a RMRS certificate.

    This is how the head of the auxiliary fleet service of the ATO of the RF Ministry of Defense, captain 1st rank Sergei Epifanov, explains it. “Ship components, including those of foreign manufacture, supplied for them must have a certificate from the Russian Maritime Register of Shipping. This approach significantly reduced the cost of construction, which made it possible in a short time to largely update the vessel composition of the Navy’s auxiliary fleet,” it says article on the website of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

    But it was the auxiliary fleet that during the first wave of sanctions from 2014–2022 became a real headache for all construction participants:
    • Cable ship project 15310. “The delay in construction arose presumably due to the need to replace imported equipment with domestic equipment,” TASS writes about the project.
    • Logistics support vessel project 23120. “There were objective difficulties associated with the supply of imported equipment,” the USC website quotes Yuri Borisov.
    • Project 23470 tugboat. “The transfer of the tugboat to the Black Sea Fleet was delayed due to the reworking of the project to replace imported components with domestic ones,” quote from Regnum news agency.
    • Sea transport of weapons of project 20360M. “The delay could be due to the fact that, according to the project, it was planned to place an imported power plant on the ship,” suggests Military Review.
    • Rescue tugboat of project 22870. “The costs taken into account when determining the price of the vessel included the costs of purchasing imported materials, equipment and components necessary for the manufacture of the vessel in accordance with the technical requirements specified in the contract. Due to a significant increase in foreign exchange rates in period of contract execution (September 2014 – December 2018), which could not be taken into account when forming the contract price in the prescribed manner, the plaintiff incurred additional costs for the purchase of imported materials, equipment and components provided for in the Contract (exchange rate difference),” – says in the court materials between the shipyard-builder and the Ministry of Defense.
    • Small hydrographic vessel of project 19910. “Due to sanctions and the policy of import substitution, the project had to be significantly modernized, all documentation had to be reworked, foreign equipment replaced with Russian equipment, and everything had to be coordinated with the customer,” Korabel quotes the commercial director of the shipyard-builder.

    Similar publications can be found about other projects. At the same time, taking into account the specifics of the state defense order, as a result of these problems, almost all participants in the process find themselves in the red: the shipyard receives lawsuits from the military department for missing deadlines, naval officials risk becoming involved in criminal cases, domestic manufacturers of equipment receive “import-substituting” orders with deadlines “yesterday” and financing based on the residual from the initial purchase.

    It is not customary to talk about this, but the situation can only be beneficial to one side - the design bureau.

    “Import substitution has become one of the priority tasks in design. The need to redesign serial orders under construction to replace imported equipment included in the projects led to an increase in the Company’s technical support work in 2022,” says, in particular, the annual report of Vympel Design Bureau .

    At the same time, the pace of construction of the auxiliary fleet is growing. Thus, in 2023 alone, according to official statements by the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, the fleet will receive more than 20 support vessels. For comparison, in the previous ten years, 100 vessels were delivered (“tugs, tankers, offshore targets, floating cranes, multifunctional transports, icebreakers,” the report says). Official statements state : all new auxiliary vessel projects must be made only from domestic components.

    And with order volumes growing, evidence of the first problems is emerging. Thus, in the material of the head of the auxiliary fleet service, Sergei Epifanov, the project of a small sea tanker is mentioned . At the design stage, it was indeed primarily Russian equipment manufacturers that were involved. However, at the stage of forming the statements of the construction plant, new suppliers began to emerge. In particular, a second supplier of a desalination plant has appeared, offering products with acceptance only by RMRS, which automatically makes it a cheaper option compared to a supplier with equipment for VP. And returning to the issue of subsequent maintenance, it is worth considering that only ordering equipment supplied to production in accordance with GOST RV guarantees that the manufacturer has a license for military and military equipment service.

    In connection with such cases, calls are increasingly being heard in the industry: “Let’s decide once and for all whether there is an auxiliary fleet: a military order or a civilian vessel!” And if the answer is “civilian ship,” then is there room on board for Chinese products?

    I believe getting Chinese components to substitute the western imports is ok as stop gap solution only, also because other problems can come up in the future. Furthermore there is a lot of money and work to be done on this and it could help keeping money in the country.

    As I wrote in other posts, gaps in the supply chain must be identified and either existing companies must be helped to expand their production capabilities or brand new companies must be created.

    They could also work with China on this, buying the equipment only with contract for technology transfer and help setting up new production.

    They should also have multiple production facilities (both for redundancy and for logistics reasons) i.e. Sankt Petersburg area, inlands (Volga area), far East and/ or black sea /Novorossia.

    GarryB, franco, zardof, lancelot and Mir like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39390
    Points : 39888
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:02 pm

    I think buying Chinese parts or even having ships made in China is a good idea, but only civilian shipping, and only when a Russian shipyard can't handle the job.

    The more you outsource work for anything the less investment you are making in your own economy.

    Chinese shipbuilders will be making ships for western companies too but if Russia starts getting ships made in China, especially military ships then the west might start imposing sanctions on China, which will put China in a difficult position.

    If it means delays then it means delays, but Russian military ships should be made in Russia... dry docks that used to be made all over the west can be made in Turkey or India or China, and other support vessels and equipment could be bought from such sources if it is good enough.

    But military stuff needs to be made in Russian shipyards and upgrading them all over time to improve their productivity and their efficiency should be a priority when they are not working on new ships.

    The margins for making ships is tiny... perhaps a bonus system could be implemented so good work is rewarded and can be used to take the pressure off the shipyards so they can order things earlier... some sort of escrow account that managers can't steal with nice fat bonus payments to themselves, but can be invested in upgrading equipment and tooling.

    Big_Gazza, zardof and Hole like this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18371
    Points : 18868
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  George1 Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:39 pm

    Autonomous deep-sea vehicle "Sergey Bavilin" of project 18200 was laid down

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 10607510

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4813640.html

    GarryB, franco, xeno, zardof, Hole and owais.usmani like this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18371
    Points : 18868
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  George1 Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:42 am

    The lead small sea tanker "Argun" of the new project 23630 was laid down

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 10627510
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 10627710


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4818323.html

    franco, xeno, Big_Gazza, zardof, LMFS, Hole and Mir like this post


    Sponsored content


    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 24 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:10 pm