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    NATO: Discussion and News

    max steel
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    Post  max steel Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:15 pm

    'Suwalki Gap' key to NATO's eastern flank security

    Lakes, forest and villages dot the rolling hills along Poland's 65-kilometre (40-mile) stretch of border with Lithuania, but for NATO's top brass, this bucolic landscape gives cause for sleepless nights.

    Sandwiched between Russia's highly militarised Kaliningrad exclave and Belarus, strategists dub the idyllic stretch of countryside the Suwalki Gap.

    They warn it is the Achilles' heel of NATO's eastern flank: its capture would amputate the alliance's three Baltic members and so shatter its credibility.

    Fears that Russia could attempt an attack surged after Moscow's 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine, a move which sent East-West relations to their lowest point since the Cold War.

    NATO's biggest ever war games in Eastern Europe -- June's Anaconda manoeuvres in Poland -- focused partly on defending the Gap, amid what one analyst dubbed "sophisticated" and "intimidating" exercises in Kaliningrad and Belarus.

    "Russia could take over the Baltic states faster than we would be able to defend them," the commander of US ground forces in Europe, General Ben Hodges, admitted to Germany's Die Zeit weekly.

    A Rand Corporation war games report issues the same stark warning: "The longest it has taken Russian forces to reach the outskirts of the Estonian and/or Latvian capitals of Tallinn and Riga, respectively, is 60 hours."

    John Deni, a research professor at the US Army War College Strategic Studies Institute, says the West's main concern "is that Russia would close" the Gap using a combination of ground forces from Kaliningrad and Belarus, or "air, tactical missile, or artillery assets based in Kaliningrad".

    Such moves "would likely lead to a broader war between Russia and the West," he warns.

    New arms race?

    Leaders at NATO's landmark summit in Warsaw on Thursday and Friday want to prevent that.

    As part of the largest alliance revamp since the Cold War, they are set to deploy four multinational battalions to the Baltic nations and Poland on a rotational basis.

    Dubbed NATO's "enhanced forward presence" and billed by the US-led alliance as part of a purely defensive "deter and dialogue" strategy, each battalion will have 600-1,000 troops.

    "Polish forces are well prepared to effectively defend it (Suwalki Gap), but of course there aren't enough of them, given Russia's full mobilisation. This is why (NATO) battle groups are necessary," Polish Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz told foreign press in Warsaw days ahead of the summit.

    Macierewicz also said he was beefing up Polish forces in the area.Unconfirmed local media reports say Britain will lead a battalion in Estonia, Canada in Latvia, and Germany in Lithuania, while the US is expected to do so in Poland.

    "We have made a very clear link between the presence of the battle groups in Poland and in the Baltic states," Tomasz Szatkowski, Polish defence ministry undersecretary of state, also told foreign media in Warsaw.

    "Most likely, it (battle group in Poland) will be in the proximity of the Suwalki Gap, in a location that allows them to very quickly secure it."

    Separately, the Pentagon said in March it would deploy an additional armoured brigade of about 4,200 troops in eastern Europe from early 2017 on a rotational basis.

    Moscow fiercely opposes Western expansion in what it sees as its Soviet-era backyard and in 1997, NATO formally agreed not to install permanent bases in former Warsaw Pact states.

    The Kremlin has stepped up its presence in the Baltic Sea area and its jets frequently test the airspace of NATO allies such as Estonia.

    It plans to create three new divisions in its southwest region and deploy new arms to meet what it described as a dangerous military build-up along its western borders.

    'Cold War is history'


    Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin accused NATO of tearing up the military balance in Europe and triggering a new arms race, although alliance chief Jens Stoltenberg has long insisted "the Cold War is history and we want it to stay that way".

    Poland's Szatkowski cast doubt on Putin's posturing, explaining that "the enhanced forward presence will not be something that by its own combat potential will be able to defend the whole theatre".

    "The bottom line is that it will significantly increase our security and reduce the probability of some unwanted incidents," he added.

    Minister Macierewicz also said non-members Finland and Sweden would attend the Warsaw summit to "deepen relations", something analysts note reinforces Baltic regional security.

    Macierewicz also signalled a "deepening of cooperation" between NATO and the EU with the inking of a "joint declaration and mutual support especially regarding hybrid threats."

    Poland plans to enrol volunteers in a 35,000-member paramilitary force intended to counter a perceived hybrid warfare threat from Russia.

    Russia's tactic is based on deception rather than a formal declaration of war, NATO strategists say.

    They suggest Russia used it to annex Crimea by covertly deploying unidentified troops and to engineer the pro-Moscow revolt in eastern Ukraine that followed.

    Warsaw will use these new "territorial defence forces" to expand its armed forces next year to 150,000 men from the current 100,000.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:09 pm

    This is a photo out of the Warsaw NATO conference. The interesting face is that of Erdogan, perhaps wondering what on earth he was doing with this bunch of children looking at toys in the sky.

    NATO: Discussion and News - Page 4 1042696689
    airstrike
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    Post  airstrike Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:59 pm

    NATO-member Slovenia selling tanks and IFVs

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/05/slovenia-selling-tanks-and-ifvs/
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    Post  Guest Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:36 pm

    max steel wrote:To be fair Nordic Tank Challenge is more biased towards the Danish Army. In Strong Europe Tank Challenge, every country used their own equipment for which the crews were trained. In Nordic Tank Challenge this is not always the case: for example firing the service weapons of the crew is only done with the Danish rifle, which gives the Danish soldiers some benefit (they are trained with this rifle.)



    The M1A2 SEP v2, which is currently the most advanced version in US service didn't beat Italians only the Slovenian team in museum piece M84s (clone T72) ,with manual firecontrol, -+1 mil weapon stabilisation and 80's optics. Effectively US teams placed dead last Slovenian team in M84 beat them in most tasks but firing where M1A2SEP tech comes to light. The US team barely edged out T-72 monkeys(M84).


    One detail most overlooked ,wining german team was the only one of all participating teams not lead by an officer but by NCO and reservists

    Crews suck , they had issues with basic tank skills like camouflaging a vehicle in terrain.
    From Strong Europe Tank Challenge



    NATO: Discussion and News - Page 4 1fd3327f86057d014d7599763dd12ad9


    Detailed Score : http://www.mihalko-family.com/Canadian-Army-Trophy-Competition.htm#SETC

    "only the Slovenian team in museum piece M84s (clone T72) ,with manual firecontrol, -+1 mil weapon stabilisation and 80's optics. Effectively US teams placed dead last Slovenian team in M84 beat them in most tasks but firing where M1A2SEP tech comes to light. The US team barely edged out T-72 monkeys(M84)."

    Actually M84/A does not have manual FCS like T72M, there are almost 1000 improvements over original imported T72s, so they have fully stabilised and integrated FCS produced by Rudi Cajavec with some components provided by Zrak, Ei, Teleoptik, Iskra and Prva Petoletka, only type of ammunition and temperature of the propellant can be entered manually. Slovenians replaced theirs tho with domestic Slovenian Fotona built FCS when original spares became a problem post war.

    Original FCS consists of: Control unit DNNS-2, command unit KBN, main computer with command unit KBN with 2 Motorola MC6802 CPUs, meteorological sensor on the turret, gyroscope, laser rangefinder, traversing speed finder etc etc...

    At the time of introduction M84A had one of the best fire control systems in the world, its worth mentioning tho that Yugoslavia cooperated on this project with Bofors in late 70s.

    Not all but majority of information about its FCS you can find here http://www.srpskioklop.paluba.info/m84/opis.htm



    Here you can see almost complete M84 FCS in parts taken out from the tank for repair, video is from Kuwait, mid 90s.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:21 pm

    NATO: Discussion and News - Page 4 CwSWEpFW8AEK3Dc
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    Post  Guest Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:09 am

    "56 cases of cigarettes and 1,000 liters of alcohol were found onboard the Estonian minehunter Sakala, which is taking part in NATO operations in the Baltic Sea. The ship’s commander has taken full responsibility and handed in his resignation."

    Source: https://www.rt.com/news/367985-estonian-nato-smuggling-resign/
    max steel
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    Post  max steel Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:40 pm

    How Useless Is NATO? So Useless That Four NATO Members Would Pick Russia to Defend Them If Attacked


    Godric
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    Post  Godric Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:48 pm

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-nato-membership-independent-scotland-a7627481.html

    seriously i don't want my country to have any part of a organisation that used neo nazis to topple the democratically elected president of Ukraine and it will mean Nato will lose control over large area of the North Atlantic ... i can just see it now: "the only way Scotland can become a member of Nato is by allowing the rUK to base it's nuclear deterrent at faslane" ... how do you think that will go ..... along the lines of p*ss/f*ck off!!

    who knows we could offer the Russian Federation a naval base on the west coast of Scotland as a two fingered salute to NATO




    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:49 am

    Montenegro becomes 29th NATO member state

    More:
    http://tass.com/world/949954
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:23 pm

    Munitions theft from an army engineering regiment base in Portugal

    The burglary is thought to have taken place at night at a part of the security perimeter where closed-circuit cameras had been broken for over two years.

    The Portuguese defence minister initially described the raid as "serious" but the size of the missing arsenal only emerged when El Español (in Spanish) published what it said was a list of the stolen armaments. Among the weapons taken were:

    1,450 9mm ammunition cartridges
    150 hand grenades
    44 anti-tank grenades
    18 tear gas grenades
    102 explosive charges
    264 pieces of plastic explosive


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40479221?ocid=socialflow_twitter
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:12 am

    Of course stealing munitions is easy during exercises... who knows how much HE is in that charge, or how many live rounds you have actually fired.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:31 am

    GarryB wrote:Of course stealing munitions is easy during exercises... who knows how much HE is in that charge, or how many live rounds you have actually fired.
    Agreed, but this wasn't an exercise, this was a munitions store.
    HUNTER VZLA
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    Post  HUNTER VZLA Thu May 03, 2018 4:04 am

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:37 am

    I found this about the strong europe tank challenge.

    1st place - Germany, The 3rd Panzer Battalion (Leopard 2A6) 1450 points
    2nd place - Sweden, Wartofta Tank Company, Skaraborg Regiment (Stridsvagn 122) 1411 points
    3rd place - Austria, 6th Tank Company, 14th Panzer Battalion (Leopard 2A4) 1321 points
    4th place - France, 1er Régiment de Chasseurs, 1st Hunter Regiment (AMX-56 Leclerc) 1186 points
    5th place - Poland, 34th Armoured Cavalry Brigade (Leopard 2A5) 1151 points
    6th place - United Kingdom, Queen’s Royal Hussars (Challenger II) 1140 points
    7th place - USA, 2nd Battalion, 70th Armored Regiment, 2nd Armored Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division (M1A2 SEP) 1100 points
    8th place - Ukraine, 1st Tank Company, 14th Mechanized Brigade (T-84U) 950 points
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:55 pm

    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/eurosatory-2018-franco-german-industry-unveils-new/

    New eurotank concept for export only. Leclerc turret on leopard 2 chassis build by franco-german KNDS.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:24 pm

    History of NATO enlargement

    On February 6, FYROM became the 30th member of the Alliance

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1043544
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed May 01, 2019 11:30 pm

    https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/uk-defence-minister-gavin-williamson-sacked-by-theresa-may-for-leaking-spy-secrets/news-story/3d6165bdea6a1599b43084b6991fc31d

    May fired MOD because he said to US that UK will let Huawei take care of their 5G network while US forbiden them to do so.

    Looks like UK is preparing its future out of EU with chinese.

    They stabed US in the back right now. England to do that is unexpected. lol1

    Nothing is going well in Nato. UK goes for China instead of US. Macron and Angela want their EU army. Turkey is buying russian and leaving US and Nato desperate. US can't make a coup in south america.

    The start of the end for Nato. The only one believing into it are future russian baltics states lol1 (and Ukraine).
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu May 02, 2019 11:14 am

    They stabed US in the back right now. England to do that is unexpected.

    Stabbed in the back is a bit of a stretch... washington has ordered all its puppet states to reject Chinese 5g network technology but does not have 5g network technology to offer in its place yet... the UK has simply said they want a 5g network and all the advantages that brings.

    They will be spied on... that is a given... everyone is going to spy on them... whether they are americans russians or chinese or german or french... but the choice is waiting for american gear or having chinese gear now... they will be spied upon no matter what gear they get in the end... the fake news about chinese spying is to get countries to wait for US gear when it is ready and you can guarantee it will be spy ware anyway.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:32 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/salondubourget/status/1140553195225255936

    Official presentation of SCAF. It's an f-22 with less manoeuvrability ...
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:56 pm

    Trump granted Brazil the status of "major non-NATO ally"

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3724317.html
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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:35 am

    George1 wrote:Trump granted Brazil the status of "major non-NATO ally"

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3724317.html

    ... i wonder if it is because 60% of NATO's small arms munitions come from Brazil...

    i heard and know that Brazil offers the best quality for the money offered. I handled their ammo in Afghanistan, it is very good really. it is to spec and i never heard of or experienced that the ammo dudded out or jammed.

    E.U NATO countries burned trough all their stockpiles with Afghanistan and are just barely buying enough ammo to keep their armies going trough basic training. the rest is shipped to "foreign interventions" after their shipments arrive in their countries of destination.

    ....i hope Russian submarine captains take notice here in case of an war with NATO Razz. Otherwise i can repeat and elaborate on that.
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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:18 am

    Isos wrote:https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/uk-defence-minister-gavin-williamson-sacked-by-theresa-may-for-leaking-spy-secrets/news-story/3d6165bdea6a1599b43084b6991fc31d

    May fired MOD because he said to US that UK will let Huawei take care of their 5G network while US forbiden them to do so.

    Looks like UK is preparing its future out of EU with chinese.

    They stabed US in the back right now. England to do that is unexpected. lol1

    Nothing is going well in Nato. UK goes for China instead of US. Macron and Angela want their EU army. Turkey is buying russian and leaving US and Nato desperate. US can't make a coup in south america.

    The start of the end for Nato. The only one believing into it are future russian baltics states lol1 (and Ukraine).

    If NATO wanted to secure their information network they never should have implemented the BMS (Battlefield Management System). They never needed Huawei to dig their own grave.

    Basically, you should see BMS as an networked PC system that allows to show NATO Troop position's that are connected in the network. Order distribution but also weapon co-ordination and targeting Data.

    For example, an U.S Missile cruiser is sitting in front of the Dutch coast loaded with Tomahawks, an German Commander identifies and Russian C&C point and put's it into the BMS. That U.S Cruiser sees that input as soon the German commander enter's it and can target and fire. The U.S Cruiser's weapon systems' accept the German Commander's input as fact. Regardless if it's friend or foe. we tried it out in practice in excercise, ....we can target NATO assets on NATO target's if we want to. The firing unit will never know it only sees the target as "hostile" with an designation the reporting unit assigned to it.

    They tried to update it but the system is run on an windows 95 enviroment, you can easily circumvent it by emulating the system on another system and send the corrupted data back into the BMS Network through the "captured" BMS unit.  

    And these transmissions are encrypted with old 90's NATO tech too. In Exercises in Poland Russia already proved multiple times they can break trough it. Suddenly mid transmission you hear Russian radio operators in english messing with you,  and NATO electronic warfare triangulated the origin as comming from Russian territory. so they know how to intercept and receive such signals for a while. in NATO we use this encryption that is loaded into radio's that "hops" frequency according to a set moment. so every radio loaded with that "key" hops exact the same time so they can hear eachother.

    Russia figured out how to decode that, they use what Nato assumes is an version of "Khybiny". its an ECM warfare package that analyzes the repeating NATO signal, copies it and tries to send it back to be accepted. when it misses the micro-second "handshake" from its NATO counterpart signal it knows its wrong and tries again the next time. This builds according to an algorithim and builds an Key untill it get's it right and is in the NATO encryption. Its an trail and error, but for computer's it goes so fast we as humans barely notice it.

    NATO build these computer systems in the most rediculous of positions, unarmoured jeeps, man portable units, etc. But worry not, they build a self destruct button...you just have to hold for 10 seconds...

    that is all for that, ...but you know what NATO Command says?. "we are still going to implement this". too many weapon contract deals and political motivated favours.

    its one big corrupt mess.

    I am still an big supporter of the old-style of communicating. Through Radio where you hear the other guy. you just can work out any misunderstanding with a few sentences and can commence to fire. You cant do everything with an computer, especially when lives depend on it.

    Im Dutch, in Afghanistan in the "battle of Chora" we had this PZH 2000 auto-loading 155M howitzer firing non-stop to try to stop this massive Taliban infantry attack on our isolated infantry platoon. This requires to be very carefull and i just can not imagine doing this trough a computer.  at one point the artillery rounds came so close the only thing shielding our own troops from shrapnell where broken walls of buildings. trough our Sperwer Drone you see shrapnell bounce off those walls where "our guys" where shielding behind. The gunner's in the PZH-2000 dont see what they are targeting exactly. in one hand i had the Telemike to the Luitenant under fire and on the other the Artillery Commander that went to the PZH-2000 to use his experience to direct the crew and smoothen out round preparation and logistics. It was a constant back-and-forth over the radio between three party's.

    Doing this trough an Computer?. impossible.

    for me its rather an personal experience to have heard this 155M auto-loading monster going full auto behind the operations Bunker and it's crew keeping shouting over the radio "round out!". every 3 seconds and hear this auto-loader deep-mechanical pitch before the shockwave of the shot shook our bunker.

    on a personal note, the PZH-2000 is an absolute automated Monster.

    I got a lot of critisism on NATO weaponry but i will always defend the PZH-2000. this thing is exactly as the german's advertise in the brochure.
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    Post  Sujoy Wed May 27, 2020 1:12 pm

    NATO has published a major new report looking at defence technology trends over the next 20 years and their impact on our collective security. The report targets leaders and opinion-makers in the defence and security sector, as well as experts seeking insights into specific technologies.

    https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2020/4/pdf/190422-ST_Tech_Trends_Report_2020-2040.pdf

    The report states - Russian, Chinese and Indian anti satellite capabilities are of significant concern to NATO

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu May 28, 2020 4:06 am

    I would read it, but not long ago I was on their website reading a page about how the Russians are so paranoid about HATO and how they should just relax and accept HATOs word on everything.

    Honestly it was not convincing at all.

    And if they are worried about current Russian capacities to shoot down satellites I am sure they will love the S-500... it is fully mobile...
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    Post  owais.usmani Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am

    Couldn't find a thread for this incident, so posting it here.


    https://vpk.name/news/439285_moryak_nanes_usherb_vms_ssha_na_paru_mlrd_dollarov.html

    A naval sailor was detained in the United States - he is suspected of deliberately setting fire to the universal landing ship Bonhomme Richard.

    The fire aboard the landing craft Bonhomme Richard, which occurred in July at the US Navy base in San Diego, California, could have resulted from arson. About this with reference to a source in the command on August 25 reports the Associated Press (AP).

    According to the source, one of the sailors is currently being questioned as a suspect. It is emphasized that the suspect has not yet been charged with any charges and remains at large.

    Naval Police investigators have turned to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for help, as the organization has the expertise and resources to investigate a complex incident like a large ship fire.

    The ship caught fire on July 12 during repairs at the San Diego shipyard. The UDC worth $ 2.8 billion was critically damaged and cannot be restored. If the version with arson is confirmed, then it claims to be the most expensive crime of this kind in history.

    lol!

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